independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Roman & Greek influences on Prince's work
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 3 of 4 <1234>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #60 posted 10/01/17 3:47pm

Adorecream

I studied Classical Studies at High School and University and feel I know a bit about it. From everything I see and read, my guess is Prince's knowledge of Greece and Rome (And even Egypt) is superficial at best.

.

SNIP - Race Baiting - C ORG NOTES OF4$

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #61 posted 10/01/17 4:31pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

^The main focus of this thread is not about Prince's actual knowledge of the ancient greco-roman world, nor does it try to measure, compare or prove anyone's level of intelligence. It is only exploring the possible influences of the classical era as observed throughout his work.

[Edited 10/2/17 1:20am]

Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #62 posted 10/01/17 6:55pm

RJOrion

Adorecream said:

I studied Classical Studies at High School and University and feel I know a bit about it. From everything I see and read, my guess is Prince's knowledge of Greece and Rome (And even Egypt) is superficial at best.


.


SNIP - Race baiting -OF4$




you consistently type the most uninformed, stupidest, most blatantly obvious racist shit on this site... but im sure you already know that...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #63 posted 10/02/17 12:09am

BillieBalloon

RJOrion said:

Adorecream said:

I studied Classical Studies at High School and University and feel I know a bit about it. From everything I see and read, my guess is Prince's knowledge of Greece and Rome (And even Egypt) is superficial at best.


.


SNIP - Race baiting -OF4$




you consistently type the most uninformed, stupidest, most blatantly obvious racist shit on this site... but im sure you already know that...



I just dont know how someone can be so racist and be a fan of a black man.
Baby, you're a star.

Meet me in another world, space and joy
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #64 posted 10/02/17 12:14am

Guitarhero

Adorecream said:

I studied Classical Studies at High School and University and feel I know a bit about it. From everything I see and read, my guess is Prince's knowledge of Greece and Rome (And even Egypt) is superficial at best.

.

SNIP - Race baiting - O4F$

I think your racist ass should be permanently banned from this site evil SNIP

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #65 posted 10/02/17 12:37am

NorthC

The thing is, Adore is probably right about Prince's classical knowledge. He just ruïned it with that last sentence...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #66 posted 10/02/17 12:48am

BillieBalloon

NorthC said:

The thing is, Adore is probably right about Prince's classical knowledge. He just ruïned it with that last sentence...



So all of Princes knowlwdge about classics came from the bible? He couldnt possibly have read anything other than the bible could he? There are obvious influences in Princes work that are not from the bible. Adorecream is a racist who cannot fathom a black man might be well read and able to comprehend way beyond the numeric label he has foisted upon the whole black race. Smh
Baby, you're a star.

Meet me in another world, space and joy
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #67 posted 10/02/17 1:58am

NorthC

BillieBalloon said:

NorthC said:

The thing is, Adore is probably right about Prince's classical knowledge. He just ruïned it with that last sentence...



So all of Princes knowlwdge about classics came from the bible? He couldnt possibly have read anything other than the bible could he? There are obvious influences in Princes work that are not from the bible. Adorecream is a racist who cannot fathom a black man might be well read and able to comprehend way beyond the numeric label he has foisted upon the whole black race. Smh

Notice the use of the word "probably". We cannot know what Prince did or didn't read, but he certainly quoted the Bible a whole lot more than the ancient philosophers. So Adore's first comment was not that far fetched.
As for the second part of his post... I don't like it any more than you or RJ or Guitarhero, but I won't go into it.. . It's not worth it...
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #68 posted 10/02/17 3:36am

Lianachan

avatar

Adorecream said:

I studied Classical Studies at High School and University and feel I know a bit about it. From everything I see and read, my guess is Prince's knowledge of Greece and Rome (And even Egypt) is superficial at best.



Yup, absolutely. With my archaeologist hat on instead of my Prince fan one, it makes me shudder to see people talking about Prince's studying of "Egyptology".

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge"" ~ Isaac Asimov
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #69 posted 10/02/17 3:45am

Adorecream

SNIP - OF4S

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #70 posted 10/02/17 6:17am

jaawwnn

*** MODERATORS NOTE ***
Please do not reply to this post.
It will be removed as soon as a discussion on

Prince and his further information on Africa or Africa in Prince's music

is created.

laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:
It seems highly unlikely he was a scholar of Ancient Greek and Roman works but he certainly played with the popular interpretations of them. I assume he read The Odyssey when he decided to do Glam Slam Ulysses but I doubt he was subscribing to Ancient History scholarly journals or doing heavy interpretative readings. Wasn't he raving about that Tut miniseries a few months before he passed, that was more his style. I remember he did an email Q&A with the Irish times or independent and they asked him if he had ever read any of the Irish classic like Joyce or Yeats or whoever and he responded with "There's still time!" or something along those lines. We know he prized learning and knowledge but he also played music all day and night and read the Bible a LOT, he only had so much time in his life!
--Van Jones said he knew a lot of about ancient African civilations

Van Jones is a pure fam when it comes to Prince, i'm not gonna take his word for it to be honest. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure Prince read a few books in his time but his work speaks for itself, he was by and large dealing in pop culture. No shame in that, his ability to take the smallest idea and build on his own thoughts and personal mythology is unparalled.

[Edited 10/2/17 6:17am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #71 posted 10/02/17 7:04am

laurarichardso
n

*** MODERATORS NOTE ***
Please do not reply to this post.
It will be removed as soon as a discussion on

Prince and his further information on Africa or Africa in Prince's music

is created.

NorthC said:

BillieBalloon said:
So all of Princes knowlwdge about classics came from the bible? He couldnt possibly have read anything other than the bible could he? There are obvious influences in Princes work that are not from the bible. Adorecream is a racist who cannot fathom a black man might be well read and able to comprehend way beyond the numeric label he has foisted upon the whole black race. Smh
Notice the use of the word "probably". We cannot know what Prince did or didn't read, but he certainly quoted the Bible a whole lot more than the ancient philosophers. So Adore's first comment was not that far fetched. As for the second part of his post... I don't like it any more than you or RJ or Guitarhero, but I won't go into it.. . It's not worth it...

There was a rack of books in his office which has been discussed on this board. He appears to have been well read and not one person who knew him has said he was a moron. Was he self-indulgent and over the top sure but that does not mean he had the intellect of a 5 year old.

There is a tremendous amount of racial sterotyping on this board which bizzare considering Prince was black and unapoligetically about it.

I am also tired of the anti-Christian nonsense. Because someone reads and knows their Bible that does not mean they know of nothing else.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #72 posted 10/02/17 7:07am

laurarichardso
n

*** MODERATORS NOTE ***
Please do not reply to this post.
It will be removed as soon as a discussion on

Prince and his further information on Africa or Africa in Prince's music

is created.

jaawwnn said:

laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said: --Van Jones said he knew a lot of about ancient African civilations

Van Jones is a pure fam when it comes to Prince, i'm not gonna take his word for it to be honest. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure Prince read a few books in his time but his work speaks for itself, he was by and large dealing in pop culture. No shame in that, his ability to take the smallest idea and build on his own thoughts and personal mythology is unparalled.

[Edited 10/2/17 6:17am]

Yes, because you spent time in his home checking out his bookshelf and you know he only read a few book? Do you know how snobby that comes off? Everybody who knew Prince did not have a meeting on April 21 and decide to get their lies straight.

Estates cannot sue for defamation so there is no reason for people to lie about anything. Implying that all of Prince's friends are big fat liars is insulting.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #73 posted 10/02/17 2:13pm

jaawwnn

*** MODERATORS NOTE ***
Please do not reply to this post.
It will be removed as soon as a discussion on

Prince and his further information on Africa or Africa in Prince's music

is created.


laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:

Van Jones is a pure fam when it comes to Prince, i'm not gonna take his word for it to be honest. Don't get me wrong, i'm sure Prince read a few books in his time but his work speaks for itself, he was by and large dealing in pop culture. No shame in that, his ability to take the smallest idea and build on his own thoughts and personal mythology is unparalled.

[Edited 10/2/17 6:17am]

Yes, because you spent time in his home checking out his bookshelf and you know he only read a few book? Do you know how snobby that comes off? Everybody who knew Prince did not have a meeting on April 21 and decide to get their lies straight.

Estates cannot sue for defamation so there is no reason for people to lie about anything. Implying that all of Prince's friends are big fat liars is insulting.

lauraplease, don't put words in my mouth; and childish words at that, 'a big fat liar' lol lol

I didn't say he lied I said I didn't trust him because he's a fam, i.e. a sycophant. I don't buy anyone saying Prince was an expert in anything outside of music (and table tennis!) shrug without some kind of evidence.


Hey, maybe i'm totally wrong (and I don't mind being proven wrong!) but without evidence like a list of his favourite novels, films, artworks, ballets or whatever, all we have is Prince's own lyrics, interviews, films etc. and they don't show a guy particularly into, for example, studying art history or the 20th century novel. He wrote a (brilliant) song named after Dorothy Parker without apparently knowing who she was (unless this is another Melvoin/Rogers conspiracy, lets not go there). Ultimately he talked a lot about the bible and when he mentioned films it was usually some recent blockbuster.

Still, I know there were signs of something else - people talk about him turning up at shows at 7th Entry to see The Replacements or other scrappy little punk bands; he mentioned a few times liking the Cocteau Twins; he obviously was always checking out local MLPS bands and artists, that's a side to him i've love to know more about... but it's still pretty obscured. Maybe he was a voracious reader of novels and could talk for hours about his favourite authors and which he felt had been a waste of his time, maybe not.


As for me being snobby, I see Prince as a mostly intuitive artist rather than a studied one (outside of the hard craft of learning to play the instruments). I think his lyrics reflect this, he was more likely to invent a new word or turn of phrase (e.g. Purple Rain, Endorphinmachine, the Days of Wild) than to lace his lyrics with intertexual references to his favourite symbolist poets and modernist writers (or whoever) like other lyric writers do. This is not a criticism or me trying to say his lyrics were in some way lower than those of Leonard Cohen or someone, in fact i'm in awe of the pure power of his writing.

[Edited 10/2/17 14:24pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #74 posted 10/02/17 2:33pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

Apollo was the twin brother of Artemis (also called Cynthia). He was the god of music, and he is often depicted playing a golden lyre. He was also known as the Archer, far shooting with a silver bow; the god of healing, giving the science of medicine to man; the god of light; and the god of truth.

His holy tree was the laurel, and

His holy animal was the dolphin.



According to legend, Apollo was born on the Greek island of Delos and grew to adulthood in just four days. To escape the island, he changed himself into a dolphin and caused a great storm on the sea. Apollo then threw himself on the deck of a ship in distress and led it safely to shore. Having reached the mainland, Apollo set off for Pytho, the site of an important oracle of Gaia, the earth goddess. A monstrous serpent named Python not only guarded the place but also spoke the oracle's prophecies. Apollo killed Python and took the oracle for himself. The name of the site was changed to Delphi because Apollo had become a dolphin ( delphis in Greek) in order to reach it.

http://www.mythencyclopedia.com/Am-Ar/Apollo.html


Dolphins as Helpers

Dolphins were not however merely useful in their parts. Many sources from the ancient world record legends and tales of live dolphins coming to the aid of humans. This is a reputation they still share today. The constellation Delphinus, the Dolphin, has several myths attached to how a dolphin may have ended up in the heavens. One is that it was placed there by Poseidon in memory of Delphinus, king of dolphins, who helped him in a seduction, but the other refers to a rescue by a dolphin. The poet Arion of Lesbos had amassed a fortune serving as a court performer and was returning home. The crew of the ship he was on decided that money in their pockets was better than money in his. They robbed him and were about to cast him overboard when he asked to be allowed to sing one last song. He sang a mournful dirge and then threw himself overboard. Instead of drowning, Arion was saved by dolphins that had been moved by his performance. Aristophanes and Euripides both refer tomusic-loving dolphins’ in their works, so it must have been a well known trope of dolphin stories.
http://folklorethursday.com/myths/dolphin-lore-of-the-ancient-world/#sthash.RU3dn6iO.dpbs


dolphin-folklore.png?fit=1366%2C768

"How beautiful do the words have 2 be
Before they conquer every heart?

How will U know if I'm even in the right key

If U make me stop before I start?


If I came back as a dolphin

Would U listen 2 me then?
Would U let me be your friend?
Would U let me in?

U can cut off all my fins - But 2 your ways I will not bend

I'll die before I let U tell me how 2 swim

And I'll come back again as a dolphin
"

Prince - Dolphin


dolphins-at-akrotiri.jpg

[Edited 10/2/17 15:18pm]

Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #75 posted 10/02/17 2:54pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

It was clear the discussion on Egypt and Africa was off topic and here is the continuance of a discussion of Egypt.

If anyone wants to discuss Prince's information of other parts of Africa or other parts of Africa in Prince's music, that would be great. But to continue another debate/discussion outside the OPs topic is derailing the thread.

Any further derailment willl result in a 1-2 day temp ban.

Egypt - Kemet the origins the art the people the myths

http://prince.org/msg/105/447567

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #76 posted 10/03/17 5:23am

CherryMoon57

avatar

In this Purple Rain scene, there is a(n) (Apollo?) mask with flames flashing from behind the eyes towards Apollonia who has just entered the room...


Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #77 posted 10/03/17 5:29am

CherryMoon57

avatar

... There is also a pegasus statuette




Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #78 posted 10/03/17 11:31pm

FullLipsDotNos
e

avatar

BillieBalloon said:

RJOrion said:
you consistently type the most uninformed, stupidest, most blatantly obvious racist shit on this site... but im sure you already know that...
I just dont know how someone can be so racist and be a fan of a black man.

What happened?

full lips, freckles, and upturned nose
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #79 posted 10/04/17 9:13pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

FullLipsDotNose said:

BillieBalloon said:

RJOrion said: I just dont know how someone can be so racist and be a fan of a black man.

What happened?

Over. Done.
The thread is about Ancient Roman & Greek influences in Prince's work

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #80 posted 10/09/17 3:48pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

Caryatid statue in Partyman



Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #81 posted 10/10/17 5:30am

CherryMoon57

avatar

"1000 X's & 0's" looks like a modern (and expanded) version of the famous "Catallus 5":

Not only do they both contain a sun metaphor (in the first part), and the 1000 kisses of course, but they also both advise lovers to ignore other people's negative criticism and to find refuge in each other's love instead. This timeless poem has inspired many to copy it, and I think Prince did too! smile


Catallus 5

by Gaius Valerius Catullus

Latin Poet of the late Roman Republic

(Translation)

Let us live, my Lesbia, and let us love,
and let us value all the rumors of
more severe old men at only a penny!
Suns are able to set and return:
when once the short light has set for us
one perpetual night must be slept by us.
Give me a thousand kisses, then a hundred,
then another thousand, then a second hundred,
then immediately a thousand then a hundred.
then, when we will have made many thousand kisses,
we will throw them into confusion,
or lest we know anyone bad be able to envy
when he knows there to be so many of kisses.



"1000 X's & 0's"

By Prince (Hit N Run, 2015)


(Page 1) You work so hard, you really do
I don't think that anyone could work as hard as you
Hot desert sun, you can feel the heat
Every drop of sweat on your brow is well earned so you best believe

I got 1, 000 hugs and kisses for you when you come back home, baby
I got 1, 000 hugs and kisses for you when you come back home, baby

(Turn the page) When you give 'em your all, and still it's only second best
You can come and lay your head upon your baby's chest
Every one of your worries (all your worries)
All your miseries (all your miseries)
You can put them in a little boat and ship them off 2 sea
Cause...

I got a 1, 000 hugs and kisses for you when you come back home baby ooooo
I got a 1, 000 hugs and kisses for you when you come back home baby ooooo

I got a 1, 000 hugs and kisses for you when you come back home
Come here!

The world can be, well 2 put it frankly, such a bitch sometimes
Seems like love that lasts 4ever is kinda hard 2 find
Most of the people we know just lookin' for a reason 2 cry
As long as you got me I got your back and this is why

You work so hard, you really do
I don't think that anyone could work as hard as you
You can lock the door, you better turn off your phone
Cause I'm gonna give 1, 000 reasons why we need 2 be alone.
Ohhhh ohhh oooo

I got 1, 000 hugs for you, baby, when you get back home
When you get back home.

Suga babe oooooh

I wanna hold you, tie you up in lace
I wanna kiss you, kiss you all over your face
I wanna love ya, all up and down
Give you love like you never had, blindfold, gagged and bound

I wanna love ya baby
One time
Two times
Three times uh

I got 1, 000 hugs and kisses, when you come back home, baby

Love you up and love you down
Give you love 'til you make them sounds

[Edited 10/10/17 5:41am]

Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #82 posted 10/13/17 4:07pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

The origins of Purple


The word 'purple' comes from the Old English word purpul which derives from Latin purpura, in turn from the Greek πορφύρα (porphura),[8] name of the Tyrian purple dye manufactured in classical antiquity from a mucus secreted by the spiny dye-murex snail.

Purple was the color worn by Roman magistrates; it became the imperial color worn by the rulers of the Byzantine Empire and the Holy Roman Empire, and later by Roman Catholic bishops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple

Tyrian purple

Tyrian purple (Greek, πορφύρα, porphyra, Latin: purpura), also known as Phoenician purple, Tyrian red, royal purple, imperial purple or imperial dye, is a bromine-containing reddish-purple natural dye. It is a secretion produced by several species of predatory sea snails in the family Muricidae, rock snails originally known by the name Murex. In ancient times, extracting this dye involved tens of thousands of snails and substantial labor, and as a result, the dye was highly valued.

Tyrian purple may first have been used by the ancient Phoenicians as early as 1570 BC. The dye was greatly prized in antiquity because the colour did not easily fade, but instead became brighter with weathering and sunlight. Its significance is such that the name Phoenicia means 'land of purple.'

[...]

Tyrian purple was expensive: the 4th-century-BC historian Theopompus reported, "Purple for dyes fetched its weight in silver at Colophon" in Asia Minor.[6] The expense meant that purple-dyed textiles became status symbols, and early sumptuary laws restricted their uses. The production of Tyrian purple was tightly controlled in Byzantium and was subsidized by the imperial court, which restricted its use for the colouring of imperial silks.[7] Later (9th century)[8] a child born to a reigning emperor was said to be porphyrogenitos, "born in the purple".

[...]

The colour-fast (non-fading) dye was an item of luxury trade, prized by Romans, who used it to colour ceremonial robes. [...] It is believed that the intensity of the purple hue improved rather than faded as the dyed cloth aged. Vitruvius mentions the production of Tyrian purple from shellfish.[22] In his History of Animals, Aristotle described the shellfish from which Tyrian purple was obtained and the process of extracting the tissue that produced the dye.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ian_purple


Image result for prince rosie gaines nothing compares 2 u

Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #83 posted 10/18/17 4:13am

CherryMoon57

avatar

BeyondthePurpleZone said:

Fascinating thread. I am also a student of Ancient History. I believe P was as well. I also noticed the many allusions to Ancient Rome and its mythology in P's songs. The eeriest part of P's connection to Ancient Rome is that he died on the same day Rome was founded on April 21, 753 B.C. April 21 is a very significant date in history. For this reason, I do not believe his death on that day was a coincidence.

http://www.onthisday.com/...s/april/21



185786-004-8E038318.jpg

The Temple of Saturn, among the ruins of the Roman Forum, Rome.
© stefano.pellicciari/Fotolia



Romulus, the mythical founder of Rome on 21st April 753 BC, was also the first one of the Seven Early Kings of the Regal period (first main part of the traditional history of Rome). The seven hills of Rome are associated, in legend, with these seven kings.

The Regal monarchy started off with good intentions with Romulus' establishment of the Roman political, military and social systems and this continued rather peacefully until the last few kings who were mostly remembered for their arrogance, warfare and tyranny towards other regions. This era is also marked by the institution of the Roman religion.

The last of these 7 kings, known as Tarquin the Proud ((Lucius Tarquinius) Superbus: Latin for "proud, arrogant, lofty), was said to have accessed the power through the murders of his wife and brother as well as the assassination of his prececessor (Servius Tullius). Having gradually angered the Roman populace, he was eventually overthrown and executed, which not only ended his tyrannic reign and the Roman monarchy but also marked the start of the Roman Republic and its expansion which would ultimately include the wealth of Egypt.


One cannot help but draw some similarities between this important part of the Roman mythical history and Prince's song '7', especially in the light of his other song (Dreamin' About U) in which he references Rome and Romulus (see OP http://prince.org/msg/7/4...?&pg=1).

But that of course does not necessarily invalidate the other religious interpretations that were suggested by others previously as it is possible to have combined meanings and imageries in one same song.

dd0fb7d257904aa2000683639abbbd08.jpg

7

All 7 and we'll watch them fall
They stand in the way of love
And we will smoke them all
With an intellect and a savoir-faire
No one in the whole universe
Will ever compare
I am yours now and u are mine
And together we'll love through
All space and time, so don't cry
One day all 7 will die
All 7 and we'll watch them fall
They stand in the way of love
And we will smoke them all
With an intellect and a savoir-faire
No one in the whole universe
Will ever compare
I am yours now and u are mine
And together we'll love through
All space and time, so don't cry
One day all 7 will die

And I saw an angel come down unto me
In her hand she holds the very key
Words of compassion, words of peace
And in the distance an army's marching feet (1,2,3,4 - 1,2,3,4)
But behold, we will watch them fall

And we lay down on the sand of the sea
And before us animosity will stand and decree
That we speak not of love only blasphemy
And in the distance, 6 others will curse me
But that's alright, (that's alright)
4 I will watch them fall(1,2,3,4,5,6,7)

All 7 and we'll watch them fall
They stand in the way of love
And we will smoke them all
With an intellect and a savoir-faire
No one in the whole universe
Will ever compare
I am yours now and u are mine
And together we'll love through
All space and time, so don't cry
One day all 7 will die

[(Just how old)]

And we will see a plague and a river of blood
And every evil soul will surely die in spite of
Their 7 tears, but do not fear
4 in the distance, 12 souls from now
U and me will still be here - we will still be here

There will be a new city with streets of gold
The young so educated they never grow old
And a, there will be no death 4 with every breath
The voice of many colors sings a song
That's so bold
Sing it while we watch them fall

All 7 and we'll watch them fall
They stand in the way of love
And we will smoke them all
With an intellect and a savoir-faire
No one in the whole universe
Will ever compare
I am yours now and u are mine
And together we'll love through
All space and time, so don't cry
One day all 7 will die

[(Just how old)]
[(Just how old)]
[(Just how old)]


Prince_7.jpg

[Edited 10/19/17 2:35am]

Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #84 posted 10/18/17 10:42am

Lianachan

avatar

CherryMoon57 said:

The origins of Purple



The word 'purple' comes from the Old English word purpul which derives from Latin purpura, in turn from the Greek πορφύρα (porphura),[8] name of the Tyrian purple dye manufactured in classical antiquity from a mucus secreted by the spiny dye-murex snail.

Purple was the color worn by Roman magistrates; it became the imperial color worn by the rulers of the Byzantine Empire and the Holy Roman Empire, and later by Roman Catholic bishops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple


Tyrian purple


Tyrian purple (Greek, πορφύρα, porphyra, Latin: purpura), also known as Phoenician purple, Tyrian red, royal purple, imperial purple or imperial dye, is a bromine-containing reddish-purple natural dye. It is a secretion produced by several species of predatory sea snails in the family Muricidae, rock snails originally known by the name Murex. In ancient times, extracting this dye involved tens of thousands of snails and substantial labor, and as a result, the dye was highly valued.

Tyrian purple may first have been used by the ancient Phoenicians as early as 1570 BC. The dye was greatly prized in antiquity because the colour did not easily fade, but instead became brighter with weathering and sunlight. Its significance is such that the name Phoenicia means 'land of purple.'



[...]



Tyrian purple was expensive: the 4th-century-BC historian Theopompus reported, "Purple for dyes fetched its weight in silver at Colophon" in Asia Minor.[6] The expense meant that purple-dyed textiles became status symbols, and early sumptuary laws restricted their uses. The production of Tyrian purple was tightly controlled in Byzantium and was subsidized by the imperial court, which restricted its use for the colouring of imperial silks.[7] Later (9th century)[8] a child born to a reigning emperor was said to be porphyrogenitos, "born in the purple".

[...]

The colour-fast (non-fading) dye was an item of luxury trade, prized by Romans, who used it to colour ceremonial robes. [...] It is believed that the intensity of the purple hue improved rather than faded as the dyed cloth aged. Vitruvius mentions the production of Tyrian purple from shellfish.[22] In his History of Animals, Aristotle described the shellfish from which Tyrian purple was obtained and the process of extracting the tissue that produced the dye.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ian_purple


Image result for prince rosie gaines nothing compares 2 u



I don’t think Prince’s adoption of purple has anything to do with any interest he may have had in or, or his limited knowledge of, Ancient Rome. It’s been a colour associated with music for a while.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge"" ~ Isaac Asimov
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #85 posted 10/18/17 12:57pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

Lianachan said:

CherryMoon57 said:

The origins of Purple


The word 'purple' comes from the Old English word purpul which derives from Latin purpura, in turn from the Greek πορφύρα (porphura),[8] name of the Tyrian purple dye manufactured in classical antiquity from a mucus secreted by the spiny dye-murex snail.

Purple was the color worn by Roman magistrates; it became the imperial color worn by the rulers of the Byzantine Empire and the Holy Roman Empire, and later by Roman Catholic bishops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple

Tyrian purple

Tyrian purple (Greek, πορφύρα, porphyra, Latin: purpura), also known as Phoenician purple, Tyrian red, royal purple, imperial purple or imperial dye, is a bromine-containing reddish-purple natural dye. It is a secretion produced by several species of predatory sea snails in the family Muricidae, rock snails originally known by the name Murex. In ancient times, extracting this dye involved tens of thousands of snails and substantial labor, and as a result, the dye was highly valued.

Tyrian purple may first have been used by the ancient Phoenicians as early as 1570 BC. The dye was greatly prized in antiquity because the colour did not easily fade, but instead became brighter with weathering and sunlight. Its significance is such that the name Phoenicia means 'land of purple.'

[...]

Tyrian purple was expensive: the 4th-century-BC historian Theopompus reported, "Purple for dyes fetched its weight in silver at Colophon" in Asia Minor.[6] The expense meant that purple-dyed textiles became status symbols, and early sumptuary laws restricted their uses. The production of Tyrian purple was tightly controlled in Byzantium and was subsidized by the imperial court, which restricted its use for the colouring of imperial silks.[7] Later (9th century)[8] a child born to a reigning emperor was said to be porphyrogenitos, "born in the purple".

[...]

The colour-fast (non-fading) dye was an item of luxury trade, prized by Romans, who used it to colour ceremonial robes. [...] It is believed that the intensity of the purple hue improved rather than faded as the dyed cloth aged. Vitruvius mentions the production of Tyrian purple from shellfish.[22] In his History of Animals, Aristotle described the shellfish from which Tyrian purple was obtained and the process of extracting the tissue that produced the dye.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ian_purple


Image result for prince rosie gaines nothing compares 2 u

I don’t think Prince’s adoption of purple has anything to do with any interest he may have had in or, or his limited knowledge of, Ancient Rome. It’s been a colour associated with music for a while.


Prince always meticulously planned anything he did and rarely left things to chance so who knows...

Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #86 posted 10/19/17 4:44am

CherryMoon57

avatar

Juno (mythology)

Juno is the divine protectress of the community, who shows both a sovereign and a fertility character, often associated with a military one. She was present in many towns of ancient Italy.

[...]


Some scholars view her concentration of multiple functions as a typical and structural feature of the goddess, inherent to her being an expression of the nature of femininity.[16]Others though prefer to dismiss her aspects of femininity and fertility[17] and stress only her quality of being the spirit of youthfulness, liveliness and strength, regardless of sexual connexions, which would then change according to circumstances: thus in men she incarnates the iuvenes, word often used to design soldiers, hence resulting in a tutelary deity of the sovereignty of peoples; in women capable of bearing children, from puberty on she oversees childbirth and marriage.[18] Thence she would be a poliad goddess related to politics, power and war. Other think her military and poliadic qualities arise from her being a fertility goddess who through her function of increasing the numbers of the community became also associated to political and military functions. https://en.wikipedia.org/...mythology)

Juno was the principle goddess of the Roman Pantheon, goddess of marriage and the well-being of women.

Image result for juno goddess

Image result for prince 7


"The Peacock complaining to Juno" by Gustave Moreau (1881).




Jupiter and Juno on Mount Ida. Sheffield City Museum and Mappin Art Gallery


Related image


Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #87 posted 11/14/17 5:22pm

CherryMoon57

avatar

For what it's worth...

Today, whilst studying for my Ancient Rome/Latin module, I was reading Ovid's Fasti and came accross the word 'Pales', so I went on wiki and found this:

'In ancient Roman religion, Pales was a deity of shepherds, flocks and livestock. Regarded as male by some sources and female by others, Pales can be either singular or plural in Latin, and refers at least once to a pair of deities.

Pales' festival, called the Parilia, was celebrated on April 21.' eek


Parilia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Festa di Pales, o L'estate
(1783), a reimagining of the Festival of Pales by Joseph-Benoît Suvée

In ancient Roman religion, the Parilia is a festival of rural character performed annually on 21 April, aimed at cleansing both sheep and shepherd. It is carried out in acknowledgment to the Roman deity Pales, a deity of uncertain gender who was a patron of shepherds and sheep.[1]

Ovid describes the Parilia at length in the Fasti, an elegiac poem on the Roman religious calendar, and implies that it predates the founding of Rome, traditionally 753 BC, as indicated by its pastoral, pre-agricultural concerns. During the Republic, farming was idealized and central to Roman identity, so the festival took on a more generally rural character. Increasing urbanization caused the rustic Parilia to be reinterpreted rather than abandoned, as Rome was an intensely traditional society. During the Imperial period, the date was celebrated as the "birthday" of Rome (dies natalis Romae).

Ceremony

The pastoral structure of the festival is carried out by the shepherd himself. After the sheep pen had been decorated with green branches and a wreath draped on the gate, the remainder of the ceremony took place in sequence. At the first sign of daylight, the shepherd would purify the sheep: by sweeping the pen and then constructing a bonfire of straw, olive branches, laurel, and sulfur. The noises produced by this burning combination were interpreted as a beneficial omen. The shepherd would jump through this flame, dragging his sheep along with him. Offerings of millet, cakes, and milk were then presented before Pales, marking the second segment of the ceremony. After these offerings, the shepherd would wet his hands with dew, face the east, and repeat a prayer four times. Such prayers requested Pales’s assistance in freeing the shepherd and the flock from evils brought about by accidental wrongdoings (e.g. trespassing on sacred grounds and removing water from a sacred water source).[2] The final portion of the rural festival made use of the beverage burranica, a combination of milk and sapa (boiled wine). After consumption of this beverage, the shepherd would leap through the fire three times, bringing an end to the ceremony.[3]

The urban form of the Parilia, on the other hand, is blended with other Roman religious practices and carried out by a priest. Ovid personally participated in this form and describes his experiences in the Fasti.[4] While the central actions of the rural ceremony carry over, the urban form adds two ingredients from other religious festivals: the Fordicidia and the October Horse. The Fordicidia sacrifices a pregnant cow to the deity Tellus to promote cattle and field fertility. The unborn calf is then removed from the womb and burnt. The October Horse is the right hand horse of the team that won a particular chariot race on October 15 of the previous year.[5] Together, the ashes of the unborn calf and the blood from the head of the October Horse are mixed by the Vestals and are added to the burning bean straw of the bonfire.[2] Dumézil questioned whether the Equus October provided the horse blood,[6] since the two ancient sources that mention the ingredient omit identifying the victim.[7]

History

By the end of the late Republic, the Parilia became associated with the birthday of Rome.[8] Numerous accounts of the founding of Rome exist, but the particular one related to the Parilia is described by Ovid in the Fasti. According to this myth, Romulus, upon reaching Rome on the day of the Parilia, took a stick and engraved a line in the ground that defined the boundaries of the new city (pomerium). He then prayed to the gods Jupiter, Mars, and Vesta asking for protection of this area. However, his brother Remus, unaware of the boundaries, crossed the line and was struck down by Romulus's henchman Celer.[4]

Over time, and under the influence of several Roman rulers, the structure of the Parilia changed. First, after Julius Caesar heard the news of Roman Victory at Munda in 45 BC (around the date of the Parilia), he added games to the ceremony. At these games, the citizens would wear crowns in Caesar’s honor. Caligula instituted into the celebration a procession of priests, noblemen, boys and girls of noble birth singing of his virtues while escorting the Golden Shield, previously bestowed upon him by the citizens of Rome, to the Capitol.[citation needed] At this time the Parilia became Rome's birthday celebration rather than the rural festival it had once been.[citation needed] In 121 AD Hadrian founded a new temple of Venus and Roma and changed the festival’s name to Romaea. The temple was ruined.[clarification needed][1] [9]



Life Matters
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #88 posted 11/15/17 11:29am

FullLipsDotNos
e

avatar

CherryMoon57 said:

For what it's worth...

Today, whilst studying for my Ancient Rome/Latin module, I was reading Ovid's Fasti and came accross the word 'Pales', so I went on wiki and found this:

'In ancient Roman religion, Pales was a deity of shepherds, flocks and livestock. Regarded as male by some sources and female by others, Pales can be either singular or plural in Latin, and refers at least once to a pair of deities.

Pales' festival, called the Parilia, was celebrated on April 21.' eek


Parilia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Festa di Pales, o L'estate
(1783), a reimagining of the Festival of Pales by Joseph-Benoît Suvée

In ancient Roman religion, the Parilia is a festival of rural character performed annually on 21 April, aimed at cleansing both sheep and shepherd. It is carried out in acknowledgment to the Roman deity Pales, a deity of uncertain gender who was a patron of shepherds and sheep.[1]

Ovid describes the Parilia at length in the Fasti, an elegiac poem on the Roman religious calendar, and implies that it predates the founding of Rome, traditionally 753 BC, as indicated by its pastoral, pre-agricultural concerns. During the Republic, farming was idealized and central to Roman identity, so the festival took on a more generally rural character. Increasing urbanization caused the rustic Parilia to be reinterpreted rather than abandoned, as Rome was an intensely traditional society. During the Imperial period, the date was celebrated as the "birthday" of Rome (dies natalis Romae).

Ceremony

The pastoral structure of the festival is carried out by the shepherd himself. After the sheep pen had been decorated with green branches and a wreath draped on the gate, the remainder of the ceremony took place in sequence. At the first sign of daylight, the shepherd would purify the sheep: by sweeping the pen and then constructing a bonfire of straw, olive branches, laurel, and sulfur. The noises produced by this burning combination were interpreted as a beneficial omen. The shepherd would jump through this flame, dragging his sheep along with him. Offerings of millet, cakes, and milk were then presented before Pales, marking the second segment of the ceremony. After these offerings, the shepherd would wet his hands with dew, face the east, and repeat a prayer four times. Such prayers requested Pales’s assistance in freeing the shepherd and the flock from evils brought about by accidental wrongdoings (e.g. trespassing on sacred grounds and removing water from a sacred water source).[2] The final portion of the rural festival made use of the beverage burranica, a combination of milk and sapa (boiled wine). After consumption of this beverage, the shepherd would leap through the fire three times, bringing an end to the ceremony.[3]

The urban form of the Parilia, on the other hand, is blended with other Roman religious practices and carried out by a priest. Ovid personally participated in this form and describes his experiences in the Fasti.[4] While the central actions of the rural ceremony carry over, the urban form adds two ingredients from other religious festivals: the Fordicidia and the October Horse. The Fordicidia sacrifices a pregnant cow to the deity Tellus to promote cattle and field fertility. The unborn calf is then removed from the womb and burnt. The October Horse is the right hand horse of the team that won a particular chariot race on October 15 of the previous year.[5] Together, the ashes of the unborn calf and the blood from the head of the October Horse are mixed by the Vestals and are added to the burning bean straw of the bonfire.[2] Dumézil questioned whether the Equus October provided the horse blood,[6] since the two ancient sources that mention the ingredient omit identifying the victim.[7]

History

By the end of the late Republic, the Parilia became associated with the birthday of Rome.[8] Numerous accounts of the founding of Rome exist, but the particular one related to the Parilia is described by Ovid in the Fasti. According to this myth, Romulus, upon reaching Rome on the day of the Parilia, took a stick and engraved a line in the ground that defined the boundaries of the new city (pomerium). He then prayed to the gods Jupiter, Mars, and Vesta asking for protection of this area. However, his brother Remus, unaware of the boundaries, crossed the line and was struck down by Romulus's henchman Celer.[4]

Over time, and under the influence of several Roman rulers, the structure of the Parilia changed. First, after Julius Caesar heard the news of Roman Victory at Munda in 45 BC (around the date of the Parilia), he added games to the ceremony. At these games, the citizens would wear crowns in Caesar’s honor. Caligula instituted into the celebration a procession of priests, noblemen, boys and girls of noble birth singing of his virtues while escorting the Golden Shield, previously bestowed upon him by the citizens of Rome, to the Capitol.[citation needed] At this time the Parilia became Rome's birthday celebration rather than the rural festival it had once been.[citation needed] In 121 AD Hadrian founded a new temple of Venus and Roma and changed the festival’s name to Romaea. The temple was ruined.[clarification needed][1] [9]



eek

full lips, freckles, and upturned nose
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #89 posted 11/16/17 3:35pm

Dandroppedadim
e

The song Revelation mentions:

"Through English glamour, casting a spell
Though Hebrew, Greek and Roman hell
higher 'til we understand, the colour of the Pharoah's hand
(the colour of the Pharoah's hand...)"

Not totally sure what he means by it, but I feel he is viewing those cultures (or just Roman?) in a negative way, in which those cultures perverted the truth about black (Egyptian) history. ?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 3 of 4 <1234>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > Roman & Greek influences on Prince's work