PeteSilas said:

either way, i hate it when the "experts' piss on my head and tell me it's raining. they are full of shit. maybe for a good cause but full of shit nonetheless.

yeah, like the ME

laurarichardson said:

Mumio said:

Where is the specific legal documentation of the toxicology results, the one that gives these numbers? Does anyone know or have a legitimate copy? Because I am not aware of any document stating this info being out there anywhere, other than a newpaper article. Does anyone have a link to the actual report? Because these news "sources" who make statements like the one above, yet had no link anywhere within that article to prove the info they gave is true, can not be viewed as anything more than hearsay. People are looking at these numbers as if they are real and I don't see any justification to believe that unless we see a legal source.

[Edited 10/2/17 21:26pm]

Unfortunatly, the police have not issued a statement to dispute it and you would think they would.

I belive someone with a medical background figured out the amount of Fentenyl in his system would have been enought to kill a sperm whale.

Laura, you haven't posted it and with what you say here I assume you have also tried to find it but couldn't find anything other than this article?

Mumio said:

laurarichardson said:

Unfortunatly, the police have not issued a statement to dispute it and you would think they would.

I belive someone with a medical background figured out the amount of Fentenyl in his system would have been enought to kill a sperm whale.

Laura, you haven't posted it and with what you say here I assume you have also tried to find it but couldn't find anything other than this article?

The sperm whale comment came from one of the Facebook groups and their is an actual PDF doc going around explaining how they came up with that. As far as the leaked info we have to take for what it is. Remember the U4770 was leaked in the local Minneapolis media and that turned out to be true.

Mumio said:

laurarichardson said:

Unfortunatly, the police have not issued a statement to dispute it and you would think they would.

I belive someone with a medical background figured out the amount of Fentenyl in his system would have been enought to kill a sperm whale.

Laura, you haven't posted it and with what you say here I assume you have also tried to find it but couldn't find anything other than this article?

My best friend is a Medical Pathologist.

The discussion that we had over this lasted several hours but he said that he had enough in his system that it would have killed a battalion of men. He also told me that amount of Fentanyl would have sent law enforcement into a frenzy because it hinted at production vs personal use. They didn't find that at PP.

And here we sit, with no legit documentation. When info that is this specific comes out, we all should be asking to see proof from the actual tox report. Someone told me that we'd never see it, yet we have people supposedly releasing info included on that report. Everyone can do as they like of course, but until I see hard evidence of these numbers, I am remaining skeptical about this information. To be clear, I am not disputing the information on the death report, but there we have actual signed documentation, unlike this news article which provides nothing as proof.

There's been too much information put out there where there isn't any proof provided to back it up.

Mumio said:

And here we sit, with no legit documentation. When info that is this specific comes out, we all should be asking to see proof from the actual tox report. Someone told me that we'd never see it, yet we have people supposedly releasing info included on that report. Everyone can do as they like of course, but until I see hard evidence of these numbers, I am remaining skeptical about this information. To be clear, I am not disputing the information on the death report, but there we have actual signed documentation, unlike this news article which provides nothing as proof.

There's been too much information put out there where there isn't any proof provided to back it up.

I agree but what I find interesting is what was leaked and how it was leaked.

95% of this case is information that was leaked to the press.

muleFunk said:

Mumio said:

And here we sit, with no legit documentation. When info that is this specific comes out, we all should be asking to see proof from the actual tox report. Someone told me that we'd never see it, yet we have people supposedly releasing info included on that report. Everyone can do as they like of course, but until I see hard evidence of these numbers, I am remaining skeptical about this information. To be clear, I am not disputing the information on the death report, but there we have actual signed documentation, unlike this news article which provides nothing as proof.

There's been too much information put out there where there isn't any proof provided to back it up.

I agree but what I find interesting is what was leaked and how it was leaked.

95% of this case is information that was leaked to the press.

Yes, and one of the questions is why? There's very little to take as the truth because no back up is given nor found. There's apparently no lack of speculative information showing up in the press, not just here on the org.

PennyPurple said:

herb4 said:

purplefam99 said:

Question have there ever been cases with pills involved that have been ruled suicide, or are when pills involved it is always accidental. I can't think Of anycase except for hanging and shooting where they said it was suicide. Seems Pills and drugs is always accidental OD ruling. Thoughts??

Pills are used in suicides. (my family just happened to use guns each time)

They look at the history of the person, if that person had any mental issues, depression, notes or letters left, talked about suicide, etc.

johnnyribcage said:

purplefam99 said:

Question have there ever been cases with pills involved that have been ruled suicide, or are when pills involved it is always accidental. I can't think Of anycase except for hanging and shooting where they said it was suicide. Seems Pills and drugs is always accidental OD ruling. Thoughts??

When Pills are used they look for bottles around the body. They look for empty bottles.

Pill suicides/ODs are usually found in a resting position i.e. beds,bathrooms,chairs,cars.

Lastly the Medical Examiner will look in the stomach contents for undigested pills because if you take a bottle of medication you will see undigested pills in the stomach or signs of multiple pill ingestion.

They didn't see those things that they find in normal pill suicide then they rule accidental overdose.

Mumio said:

muleFunk said:

I agree but what I find interesting is what was leaked and how it was leaked.

95% of this case is information that was leaked to the press.

Yes, and one of the questions is why? There's very little to take as the truth because no back up is given nor found. There's apparently no lack of speculative information showing up in the press, not just here on the org.

Mumio I have a good idea who leaked this to the press but I am waiting before releasing this.

PennyPurple said:

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said:

Pills are used in suicides. (my family just happened to use guns each time)

They look at the history of the person, if that person had any mental issues, depression, notes or letters left, talked about suicide, etc.

Thx PP. Yes pills are used but in the absence of those other issues and signs, do then pill suicides tend to be labeled as accidental where they still could be suicides. So even tho the notes, giving things away, talk of suicide isn't present, is that what makes an ME rule accidental vs suicide? In other words what is the check list For suicide vs accidental OD from a medical examiner standpoint? Asking anyone who might know. Thx. [Edited 10/3/17 12:50pm]

Mulefunk explained it really well, a few posts up.

purplefam99 said:

Thx PP. Yes pills are used but in the absence of those other issues and signs, do then pill suicides tend to be labeled as accidental where they still could be suicides. So even tho the notes, giving things away, talk of suicide isn't present, is that what makes an ME rule accidental vs suicide? In other words what is the check list For suicide vs accidental OD from a medical examiner standpoint? Asking anyone who might know. Thx. [Edited 10/3/17 12:50pm]

If you are really careful about the details then yes, a suicide could be made to appear to be accidental.

I have broken this down several times but one thing I did leave out was the fact that when one uses pills in suicides then the stomach contents will force themselves out the mouth after death has occurred and a burn will be around the mouth area.

I haven't seen the body so I don't know how his body looked post mortem but it's very obvious from the reports that I have seen that he didn't intend on leaving on April 20/21, 2016.

What reports?

Also, why wasnt this story from a "source" picked up nationally?

Was it because they could not confirm the source?

muleFunk said:

I have broken this down several times but one thing I did leave out was the fact that when one uses pills in suicides then the stomach contents will force themselves out the mouth after death has occurred and a burn will be around the mouth area.

I haven't seen the body so I don't know how his body looked post mortem but it's very obvious from the reports that I have seen that he didn't intend on leaving on April 20/21, 2016.

muleFunk said:

muleFunk said:

I haven't seen the body so I don't know how his body looked post mortem but it's very obvious from the reports that I have seen that he didn't intend on leaving on April 20/21, 2016.

What reports are you talking about here?

purplefam99 said:

muleFunk said:

I have broken this down several times but one thing I did leave out was the fact that when one uses pills in suicides then the stomach contents will force themselves out the mouth after death has occurred and a burn will be around the mouth area.

I haven't seen the body so I don't know how his body looked post mortem but it's very obvious from the reports that I have seen that he didn't intend on leaving on April 20/21, 2016.

What if the pills were ingested rectally? Would he still have gastric levels of fent? I am assuming gastric means stomach, not intestinal. But I'll take any light shed.

drugs ingested rectally enter the bloodstream much more rapidly than drugs taken orally, there is zero chance of vomiting up the drugs and being 'saved', there is no pain/burning because you ordered the lidocaine to be mixed into your batch because you had been dosing this way for a while because you had been vomiting frequently for about six months...

Mumio said:

If you are really careful about the details then yes, a suicide could be made to appear to be accidental.

I've also heard where sometimes a family trys to sway the outcome and doesn't want suicide to be listed on the death certificate.

PennyPurple said:

Mumio said:

If you are really careful about the details then yes, a suicide could be made to appear to be accidental.

I've also heard where sometimes a family trys to sway the outcome and doesn't want suicide to be listed on the death certificate.

That is absolutely true in this case both because of Prince's life-long anti-drug position and because of his religious affiliation. It was a last gift from the ME to the home town hero.

muleFunk said:

I have broken this down several times but one thing I did leave out was the fact that when one uses pills in suicides then the stomach contents will force themselves out the mouth after death has occurred and a burn will be around the mouth area.

I haven't seen the body so I don't know how his body looked post mortem but it's very obvious from the reports that I have seen that he didn't intend on leaving on April 20/21, 2016.

What I've been told about this is that it is not necessarily true. In instances where someone arrives on the scene and tries to "work" the patient, CPR compressions will cause exactly what you've said above. So, it's not something that always happens due to pill ingestion.

muleFunk said:

I have broken this down several times but one thing I did leave out was the fact that when one uses pills in suicides then the stomach contents will force themselves out the mouth after death has occurred and a burn will be around the mouth area.

I haven't seen the body so I don't know how his body looked post mortem but it's very obvious from the reports that I have seen that he didn't intend on leaving on April 20/21, 2016.

I need to go watch meself a louis theroux episode. This stuff is hilarious!

bonatoc said:

And remember: there isn't a single doped up rock star junkie,
in Minnesotta or elsewhere's,
that would have performed like in Atlanta (randomly: 45'00'').

Now you can tell me Prince is Extraordinaire all thou whilst,
something does not compute.

So can we forget the junkie argument 4 ever, please?

Using vicodin for pain management does not make someone a junkie. But you CAN get addicted to them and tend to think he was.

laurarichardson said:

I will tell you what he was going to do.

Peer to peer distrubution -

what like piratebay... or amazon resellers? Nothing revolutionary about that. In fact he tried the latter with Hit 'n' Run 2. as for digital peer to peer that's just a way to get free stuff

Being his own admin -

as in be his own secretary? he already did the 'own his own label' schtick. wouldn't exactly have been a 'trotskyist' move, unless he took on receptionist duties as well l o l

One word " Shades of Umber"

there was only one (ahem!) and he recorded that in 2013. nothing new there

He had health issues like millions of other people it does not mean his life was not fabulous because no one is promised a pain free and troubled exsistence.

true but noone really guessed the extent. most thought he was over hip issues

herb4 said:

Using vicodin for pain management does not make someone a junkie. But you CAN get addicted to them and tend to think he was.

Absolutely. There's this suspicion lingering about it being recreational or self-destructive,
and I think that's not the point here. I would like to think he got addicted to not being in pain.

And so it puzzles me. Can you really take that much opioids (I'm talking about what we suppose his daily intake was)
and still operate that well?

I've read from the above posts that you can still function, but there is a difference between
being able to perform the basic tasks and run a business, doing rehearsals...
Or were the last months suspiciously calm?

Mumio said:

muleFunk said:

I have broken this down several times but one thing I did leave out was the fact that when one uses pills in suicides then the stomach contents will force themselves out the mouth after death has occurred and a burn will be around the mouth area.

I haven't seen the body so I don't know how his body looked post mortem but it's very obvious from the reports that I have seen that he didn't intend on leaving on April 20/21, 2016.

What I've been told about this is that it is not necessarily true. In instances where someone arrives on the scene and tries to "work" the patient, CPR compressions will cause exactly what you've said above. So, it's not something that always happens due to pill ingestion.

It depends on when he died.

Some reports on this was he was in some form of rigor when they found him.