I adore this song, I adore the performance in concert, and I adore the fact they tried to recapture this performance in the video. Is it, however, the moment when Prince jumped the shark? I ask because, there in the background, in a parody of their balcony routine glimpsed in Purple Rain, are the Game Boyz...and that, arguably, was the end of Prince creating trends, it was the moment Prince chased trends.

Discuss.

great looking video..what r u talking about?

Don't tell me what to do.

pricetag said:

You jumped the shark.

SimonCharles said:

7souls said:

pricetag said:

Don't tell me what to do.

Who told you what to do?

The OP told me to discuss. What if I don't want to discuss?

SimonCharles said:

I adore this song, I adore the performance in concert, and I adore the fact they tried to recapture this performance in the video. Is it, however, the moment when Prince jumped the shark? I ask because, there in the background, in a parody of their balcony routine glimpsed in Purple Rain, are the Game Boyz...and that, arguably, was the end of Prince creating trends, it was the moment Prince chased trends.

Discuss.

I've never bought into the neat argument that Prince shifted from being a trendsetter to a "trend-chaser". Throughout his career he produced work that blended outside influences or referred back to previous elements - at times, resulting in wholly singular creations; at others, missing the mark.

I don't see how a glimpse of the Game Boyz can be argued as having any particular significance. If there's a visual moment when Prince went over the edge, I'd focus in on the 1991 MTV performance. It was then that I felt Prince himself had fallen into unintentional self-parody.

pricetag said:

7souls said:

pricetag said: Who told you what to do?

The OP told me to discuss. What if I don't want to discuss?

Then don't discuss. Duh!

dave1dmarx said:

pricetag said:

Don't tell me what to do.

Somthing about Prince's face seemed different during this era, does anyone else see this? can't figure it out though.

purplethunder3121 said:

pricetag said:

Don't tell me what to do.

I tried. Nope. Lost on me.

pricetag said:

dave1dmarx said:

Then don't discuss. Duh!

Not you as well. Please don't tell me what to do! Jeez, the sense of entitlement in this place.... [Edited 8/18/17 17:37pm]

Is this a put-on? DO whatever you wanna do, bub. Or don't. Whatever... I couldn't give the ass of a flying rat myself.

The more interesting details are the glimpses of a younger Chris Christie at 1:42 and 2:28.

• 1987: Madhouse: 8
• 1987: Sheila E.: Sheila E.
• 1987: Jill Jones: Jill Jones
• 1987: Taja Sevelle: Taja Sevelle §
• 1987: Madhouse: 16

to follow up 1987 with Lovesexy was sheer brilliance.

[Edited 8/18/17 18:43pm]

dave1dmarx said:

pricetag said:

dave1dmarx said: Not you as well. Please don't tell me what to do! Jeez, the sense of entitlement in this place.... [Edited 8/18/17 17:37pm]

Is this a put-on? DO whatever you wanna do, bub. Or don't. Whatever... I couldn't give the ass of a flying rat myself.

You making the effort to come on here with your "ass of a flying rat" comment somewhat undermines it. No?

luvsexy4all said:

great looking video..what r u talking about?

It is a great looking video. I'm saying that the Game Boyz don't fit the aesthetic of Lovesexy, look incongruous and, arguably, this could be considered the moment Prince began to feel the need to compete with others and not just him, in the past. That's what I'm talking about. *smilingface*

dodger said:

I'm not sure some glimpses of The Game Boyz dancing on a balcony in leotards would qualify as chasing trends. They were around for years on and off and were also in some Madhouse videos, which obviously could never be accused of trend chasing

Fair point, well made. I would argue, however, that this appearance - in particular the manner of the appearance (laboured dancing and Hammer-Don't-Hurt-Em lycra) simply does not fit Lovesexy.

laurarichardson said:

SimonCharles said:

I adore this song, I adore the performance in concert, and I adore the fact they tried to recapture this performance in the video. Is it, however, the moment when Prince jumped the shark? I ask because, there in the background, in a parody of their balcony routine glimpsed in Purple Rain, are the Game Boyz...and that, arguably, was the end of Prince creating trends, it was the moment Prince chased trends.

Discuss.

Those guys were around since Purple Rain. It is called show business you have to have a show.

Fair point - however, I believe the show had been going on without them and had been considered one of the finest shows seen.

[Edited 8/18/17 23:47pm]

airth said:

SimonCharles said:

I adore this song, I adore the performance in concert, and I adore the fact they tried to recapture this performance in the video. Is it, however, the moment when Prince jumped the shark? I ask because, there in the background, in a parody of their balcony routine glimpsed in Purple Rain, are the Game Boyz...and that, arguably, was the end of Prince creating trends, it was the moment Prince chased trends.

Discuss.

I've never bought into the neat argument that Prince shifted from being a trendsetter to a "trend-chaser". Throughout his career he produced work that blended outside influences or referred back to previous elements - at times, resulting in wholly singular creations; at others, missing the mark.

I don't see how a glimpse of the Game Boyz can be argued as having any particular significance. If there's a visual moment when Prince went over the edge, I'd focus in on the 1991 MTV performance. It was then that I felt Prince himself had fallen into unintentional self-parody.

Fair point, well made, in particular your comment about the MTV performance: it gets lots of praise but it does smack of parody.

The reason why I consider the glimpse of the Game Boyz as having significance in this context is simply because they don't sit in the Lovesexy product - neither in performance on promotional material or on record. They are a sign of an aesthetic evolution as opposed to a musical one that occurred with the expansion of the The Revolution through '85 and '86. As such they mark a presentational change in Prince's work and, arguably, a change that indicated Prince was becoming more concerned with appearance than reality.

[Edited 8/18/17 23:46pm]

000000 said:

Prince didn't jump the shark or follow trends. I'm still amazed by the PP output the year before Lovesexy was released... Crazy!

• 1987: Prince: Sign "☮" the Times album & movie

• 1987: Madhouse: 8
• 1987: Sheila E.: Sheila E.
• 1987: Jill Jones: Jill Jones
• 1987: Taja Sevelle: Taja Sevelle §
• 1987: Madhouse: 16

to follow up 1987 with Lovesexy was sheer brilliance.

[Edited 8/18/17 18:43pm]

To be fair, I did not say he jumped the shark in 1987 or through the release of the Lovesexy album or show.

PurpleYoda3121 said:

Lovesexy was his creative peak, he went against everything going on in pop music at the time and made one of the best, funkiest, and uplifting albums ever.

That he did. To be fair, that is not the argument I'm making.

mikeyaddict said:

'Jumping the shark' is a new term to me. I was scratching head thinking of where the was a shark in the glam slam video or lovesexy show! You guys with your crazy sayings.

Ha! Fonzie Jumps the Shark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvGopsM1G9g

SimonCharles said:

mikeyaddict said:

'Jumping the shark' is a new term to me. I was scratching head thinking of where the was a shark in the glam slam video or lovesexy show! You guys with your crazy sayings.

Ha! Fonzie Jumps the Shark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvGopsM1G9g

I so obviously don't know how to embed the video...sorry!

SimonCharles said:

airth said:

I've never bought into the neat argument that Prince shifted from being a trendsetter to a "trend-chaser". Throughout his career he produced work that blended outside influences or referred back to previous elements - at times, resulting in wholly singular creations; at others, missing the mark.

I don't see how a glimpse of the Game Boyz can be argued as having any particular significance. If there's a visual moment when Prince went over the edge, I'd focus in on the 1991 MTV performance. It was then that I felt Prince himself had fallen into unintentional self-parody.

Fair point, well made, in particulr your comment about the MTV performance: it gets lots of praise but it does smack of parody.

The reason why I consider the glimpse of the Game Boyz as having significance in this context is simply because they don't sit in the Lovesexy product - neither in performance on promotional material or on record. They are a sign of an aesthetic evolution as opposed to a musical one that occurred with the expansion of the The Revolution through '85 and '86. As such they mark a presentational change in Prince's work and, arguably, a change that indicated Prince was becoming more concerned with appearance than reality.

*

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "appearance," Prince was always concerned with his physical "appearance." However, Prince combined/amalgamated his musical and physical/stylish inspirations so well that many didn't recognize that his style (musical, lyrical, and clothing) was created from an amalgamation of various styles. For instance, was Prince chasing trends when he B-Boyed in the "Little Red Corvette" video during the guitar solo? He obviously didn't create that dance move, but in his brilliance he was able to combine a James Brown split with Hip Hop B-boying to create his own thing/move. (The first time I saw that video it was clear to me that Prince watched/listened to/was aware of hip hop culture.) As such, the same could be said with the Game Boyz. They were just his take on the past and the present. For instance, in the counter-Revolution, Prince is clearly using Jerome, Greg, and Wally to create his own Famous Flames look and feel but also doing it in a new way so that it's not just a "rip off." Yet, Billy Sparks, when promoting the 86 Birthday show on the Electrifying MoJo Show actual says, “Famous Flames,” which makes it clear that Prince is conscious of other styles and consciously integrates/amalgamates those other styles into his work. Now, the question of if he integrates/amalgamates them well is another debate, but he has certainly always integrated/amalgamated various aesthetics into his own.

*

As for the Game Boyz not "sitting in the Lovesexy product," again, I'm not sure what you mean. Are we saying that certain dance moves, such as hip hop, don't fit well within certain musical forms? If so, I'd argue that notion is a bit myopic given the fact that I've seen dancers use a variety of forms within a variety of musical compositions. And, again, Prince was always as concerned with the fashion aesthetic as he was the musical aesthetic, being careful to use dashes of various elements that allowed him to be connected to a lot of worlds while simultaneously constructing his own, unique world.

*

Of course, one who doesn't like the hip hop aesthetic could argue that embracing hip hop made Prince's work less pleasing to one, but there has rarely been a time when a great artist was not influenced by something new. Since I've never been a big hip hop connoisseur, I don't really know the difference between good hip hop and bad hip hop or good emceeing and bad emceeing. As such, I was never bothered by what the Game Boyz did or even by Tony M's rapping because it was usually within and never overshadowed the essential aesthetic that I loved about Prince. So, “Call the Law” or “Push” or “The Flow” utilized emceeing but within the framework of the funk aesthetic. Prince wasn’t bending his musical form to fit hip hop, he was trying to find a way to fit hip hop into what he was already doing. That’s called growth, which is the same thing that Miles Davis and Herbie Hancock did. However, since I've always hated house music, I hate the opening of the Nude Tour because until "Kiss," iirc, the other opening songs suffer, lose their aesthetic essence, by being refashioned as house music. (Well, “The Future” isn’t so bad, but “1999” and “Housequake” are atrocious to my ears. But, hey, that’s all part of an artist trying something new. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t. Then, again, I'm not as bothered by Tony M's rap in "Love 2 d 9s" as most folks because, again, while somewhat annoying --just because "Love 2 d 9s" begins as such a beautiful/soulful song--it is still within the framework or context of Prince's aesthetic whereas "Mr. Goodnight" is just a hot mess. Prince's rapping is horrible, even I can hear that, but "Chelsea Rodgers" makes up for it. Yet, that, in a nutshell, was Prince. He was always trying to find ways to mix and match all of what he loved or all of what intrigued him. Again, sometimes it worked well, and sometimes it didn’t. But, for my subjective tastes, there was always much more good than bad…well…until Hit & Run: Phase 1. Then, it’s mostly bad, but thank God for Phase 2.