i agree with the subscription model, where you recieve physical cds - they could come in a simple sleeve with a nice photo;tracklist etc (on a mothly basis) - but you receive a special treasure chest to keep them in. PRINCE: THE TREASURE TROVE COLLECTION. I like the idea that the estate select the music on each disc (or at least allow some sort of vote by subscribers?). Some sort of download each week would be nice too.

DownTheNeedleDownTheSpoon said:

Please contact RHINO to help you with Quality Released CONCERTS... I've been a Prince/DeadHead forever (First Dead Show 3/10/81 First Prince Show April '85 (Worchester MA) and I have almost 100 Dead Shows released by Rhino that are just incredible.

I Prince Engineer can work with them and make sure allllll Quality Standerds are included.

It's worth it... dont release sub-par style for P's best performances

Hoping for NYC 6/16/06 at Butter ... anyone else at this gem??? Jay Z & Queen B were there + many others...

rhino..for sure....they could do a pre-pay cd sale and ship after a certain amount sold

laurarichardson said:

Do you any idea how much investment it would have taken for him to pull this off independently?

.

That's funny, could have sworn you always wave away reports of his insolvency by saying "he just needs to do one concert and then he has another million".

.

Prince wasted millions of Versace clothes, videos that got vaulted immediately, etc. But investing in a venture that would help him would be unwise? Seriously?

.

Yes, setting up such a venture would cost a pretty penny, but it would earn back plenty, considering his vast archive. But history shows that he was all about the "cash big advance, deliver subpar record, do zero to promote it, bitch about it failing" approach.

IMHO the estate should first release a definitive document of Prince's final tour.

There are likely soundboard recordings of all 22 concerts (2 @ PP, 11 @ AUS, 9 @ USA). There should be a deluxe box set with:

- all gigs
- a professionally filmed video of at least one of those shows
- a tourbook-like photo-album

- a documentary containing personal testimonials from people who went to the gigs and have interesting stories (no "best ever" BS) and backstage info from technicians etc.
- probably more ideas

I'd even argue that all professionally filmed concerts should be included; or perhaps that there should be a separate box set if there are too many.

Perhaps there should be three box sets:
- the PP concerts + documentary
- The AUS tour
- the USA tour

(Thats too much for the general public, so you'd need smaller box sets featuring only one or two concerts, or perhaps a "highlights" concert compiled from various gigs, à la From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah.)

This should be a celebration of that tour, a final document.

However, that will take a serious investment: all recordings need to be found and prepared for release. Perhaps the professionally videotaped ones are all still unedited (or perhaps there is an unfinshed edit), so that's more work to be done by professionals. The artwork needs to be designed, photos need to be selected, perhaps fans need to be contacted to obtain their photos,...

And then this needs to be a worldwide release, well-timed, and promoted properly. For instance an edited version of the documentary could be shown on TV, coupled with a professionally filmed concert.

But I don't see that happening without support from a major player. And I don't even know if this would be a big money maker, or more something like a prestige project. So that's a major hurdle.

SquirrelMeat said:

Problem is, niche market product sold on a mass market platform will make little money. It will be copied and won't hold an asset value.

The optimum model for niche is subscription, but it needs to offer a level of exclusivity to maintain its membership numbers.

If they have any sense, they will build it around a model that charges an annual fee, but sends out physical, time limited product. Like a deluxe package gig or outtake CD every quarter.

They will rise in value so the membership will have worth.

They need to look at the business model of things like Rock / movie poster commissioning, which is a highly lucrative business through people like Mondotees, Or Hotel Chocolat' which sends out exclusive product every month to its subscribers.

Ah! I like that idea. This also reminds me of the NPG Music Club, bless it.

BartVanHemelen said:

soladeo1 said:

What if The Estate put every show online - similar to what Bruce Springstein and Tori Amos do - catalogued by tour - and allowed the public to purchase the concerts for $5 a pop??

.

Not gonna happen. Not soon anyway.

.

First of all: pre-1996 shows would likely be objected to by WBR, since they could use those for deluxe packages and because they might have some hold on them anyway.

.

Later shows? Same problem: you risk diluting the offer for companies bidding on post-WBR releases, because they'd need such live shows to sell deluxe versions.

.

Unless such a venture is part of a major plan which is agreed upon by the companies involved, the risk of poisoning the well is too great.

.

Right now we're in a sort-of massive stalemate.

.

Oh, and blame Prince for all this: he could have organised such a venture ages ago, but didn't.

Well, don't forget that he started such a move with the NPG Music Club's download offerings in the early 2000s, but likely became disenchanted by online pirating when he stopped doing so. So he did make some such effort.

BartVanHemelen said:

laurarichardson said:

(1) Do you any idea how much investment it would have taken for him to pull this off independently?

.

That's funny, could have sworn you always wave away reports of his insolvency by saying "he just needs to do one concert and then he has another million".

.

(2) Prince wasted millions of Versace clothes, videos that got vaulted immediately, etc. But investing in a venture that would help him would be unwise? Seriously?

.

(3) Yes, setting up such a venture would cost a pretty penny, but it would earn back plenty, considering his vast archive. But history shows that he was all about the "cash big advance, deliver subpar record, do zero to promote it, bitch about it failing" approach.

(1) Could you state what would be the average costs involved in doing the prep for contemporary recordings requiring editing? I think that is what laurarichardson may have been trying to discover from you. You keep saying how expensive tape editing--and restoration for those needing that--can be (which I can believe due to the labor intensity of the task) that we must assume you know something about, but never throw out a decent ballparpark figure! I guess the estate would have to explore this on their own, given the mettle.

>

(2) More bitching about the man's style, that you can do nothing about! SMH.

>

(3) I definitey support some measure of indepenent ventures to publish recordings. Your narrative on Prince's history is certainly classic, Bart--you do what you do best! Simply put, Prince tried various enterprises as an indepentdent artist, end of story. His complaints toward the industry were pretty much valid, IMO.

BartVanHemelen said:

Bart--

It's rare that the fan in you is this clearly visible--this is actually a beautiful idea. Certainly a document of the final tour should happen--and would be consistent with what Prince was saying shortly before his death. I was on the Prince train long enough to know that his saying it didn't mean it would happen, but it would be nice if the estate just pulled that last promise off--and had done it a lot sooner than now, for that matter.

The package you describe would be perfect--but surely something decent on a smaller scale would be possible. Not a "selections from" but something based on complete shows, even if only a handful (Atlanta and Paisley both need to be represented, at least).

BartVanHemelen said:

IMHO the estate should first release a definitive document of Prince's final tour.

There are likely soundboard recordings of all 22 concerts (2 @ PP, 11 @ AUS, 9 @ USA). There should be a deluxe box set with:

- all gigs
- a professionally filmed video of at least one of those shows
- a tourbook-like photo-album

- a documentary containing personal testimonials from people who went to the gigs and have interesting stories (no "best ever" BS) and backstage info from technicians etc.
- probably more ideas

I'd even argue that all professionally filmed concerts should be included; or perhaps that there should be a separate box set if there are too many.

Perhaps there should be three box sets:
- the PP concerts + documentary
- The AUS tour
- the USA tour

(Thats too much for the general public, so you'd need smaller box sets featuring only one or two concerts, or perhaps a "highlights" concert compiled from various gigs, à la From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah.)

This should be a celebration of that tour, a final document.

However, that will take a serious investment: all recordings need to be found and prepared for release. Perhaps the professionally videotaped ones are all still unedited (or perhaps there is an unfinshed edit), so that's more work to be done by professionals. The artwork needs to be designed, photos need to be selected, perhaps fans need to be contacted to obtain their photos,...

And then this needs to be a worldwide release, well-timed, and promoted properly. For instance an edited version of the documentary could be shown on TV, coupled with a professionally filmed concert.

But I don't see that happening without support from a major player. And I don't even know if this would be a big money maker, or more something like a prestige project. So that's a major hurdle.

Germanegro said:

(1) Could you state what would be the average costs involved in doing the prep for contemporary recordings requiring editing? I think that is what laurarichardson may have been trying to discover from you. You keep saying how expensive tape editing--and restoration for those needing that--can be (which I can believe due to the labor intensity of the task) that we must assume you know something about, but never throw out a decent ballparpark figure! I guess the estate would have to explore this on their own, given the mettle.

.

Impossible to know, because we don't know the state of the vault(s). Some tapes could be OK, others could be severely damaged, etc.

.

>

(2) More bitching about the man's style, that you can do nothing about! SMH.

.

Is READING so bloody hard? I compared the "ooh this is too costly" BS with Prince spending tons on clothes etc.

jaypotton said:

Bart to be fair you did start with a "IMHO" but if anyone else had posted this you would have still accused them of pure fantasy.

.

Utter nonsense. For crying out loud, I have posted numerous examples of outrageous box sets. Did you know there's a 13 disc box set of Debbie Gibson coming soon?

.

IMHO I think what you describe is too much and would be overwhelming even for hardcore fans.

.

Nonsense. The likes of King Crimson have done far bigger box sets.

TheEnglishGent said:

BartVanHemelen said:

BartVanHemelen said:

Germanegro said:

.

(A) Impossible to know, because we don't know the state of the vault(s). Some tapes could be OK, others could be severely damaged, etc.

.

>

(2) More bitching about the man's style, that you can do nothing about! SMH.

.

(B) Is READING so bloody hard? I compared the "ooh this is too costly" BS with Prince spending tons on clothes etc.

(A) Okay--so by your estimate its just going to be simply greatly expensive. We can count on that, but by how much is uncertain and if we don't know the state of the vault, your worst-case-scenario premonitions are merely guessing like the rest of us. The estate should look into this circumstance as one of their top priorities to get a baseline on this situation which can help them determine next steps regarding their dealings with the material.

>

(B) LOL--just admit that you simply like to rant about many points on Prince's style that peeve you (that others may actually appreciate). Besides, we all have our vices, even though you always wanted Prince to be better. No apoligies here--just saying. Fair enough? You're saying that Prince's preferences for garments hampered his career acheivements--okay, but

donnyenglish said:

Put all of the obscure stuff, including videos, demos, etc. online. We will buy it all.

Yup--by indications on this site, people will buy, the niche market will be tapped, and such offerings might actually broaden the draw to this amazing artist.

>

Y'know, there's a certain segment of people who try to focus too hard on the corporation slant of profit maximization when it comes to such commerce. If material is in good shape and can be readily dealt, then why not make it accessible. This will knock the bootlegers completely askew and channel the profiteering to where it belongs.

jaypotton said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Nonsense. The likes of King Crimson have done far bigger box sets.

Ha ha not nonsense, it is opinion ie. mine And seriously, anyone else posting that would likely have got barted for wish listing and a simple "never going to happen" comment. If a box set as you describe did ever see the light of day then I sure would buy it, but I think it would be too much and too overwhelming to take in and I would likely only re-listen to one show. Edit: oh and 13 disc Debbie Gibson no way. There's a market for that? Really? No accounting for taste I guess. Assume that is some kind of definitive album, singles, b-sides and live concert collection as didn't think she had enough material? [Edited 7/29/17 3:10am]

Debbie could have some really big fans (fams) out there, so why at all deny them their glory and enjoyment?

>

Besides the corporations are 100% down with the pursuit of the moolah If any indications exist that there is a market they'll certainly go down to the Dibbie Gibson stacks and mine them for all they can make it worth! With such dealings, taste make zero difference.

BartVanHemelen said:

IMHO the estate should first release a definitive document of Prince's final tour.

There are likely soundboard recordings of all 22 concerts (2 @ PP, 11 @ AUS, 9 @ USA). There should be a deluxe box set with:

- all gigs
- a professionally filmed video of at least one of those shows
- a tourbook-like photo-album

- a documentary containing personal testimonials from people who went to the gigs and have interesting stories (no "best ever" BS) and backstage info from technicians etc.
- probably more ideas

I'd even argue that all professionally filmed concerts should be included; or perhaps that there should be a separate box set if there are too many.

Perhaps there should be three box sets:
- the PP concerts + documentary
- The AUS tour
- the USA tour

(Thats too much for the general public, so you'd need smaller box sets featuring only one or two concerts, or perhaps a "highlights" concert compiled from various gigs, à la From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah.)

This should be a celebration of that tour, a final document.

However, that will take a serious investment: all recordings need to be found and prepared for release. Perhaps the professionally videotaped ones are all still unedited (or perhaps there is an unfinshed edit), so that's more work to be done by professionals. The artwork needs to be designed, photos need to be selected, perhaps fans need to be contacted to obtain their photos,...

And then this needs to be a worldwide release, well-timed, and promoted properly. For instance an edited version of the documentary could be shown on TV, coupled with a professionally filmed concert.

But I don't see that happening without support from a major player. And I don't even know if this would be a big money maker, or more something like a prestige project. So that's a major hurdle.

I'd buy it!

FunkOnTheOne said:

The problem is the problem that faces most modern music. Once the first copy us out there on the Internet, it will simply be shared for free.

They could sell them for $X and as soon as they have Y number of orders they release it.

Metallica has a lot of their shows as payed downloads.

laurarichardson said:

--He recorded the shows so he could watch them back to pick out things that could have been better. Just like game tape.

100% correct!!

He played two shows at the Montreux Jazz Festival July 18, '09...

I was there, in Switzerland

There was an hour and a half wait between the two shows

You know why?

Because immediately after he finished the first show, he watched the second show to see which songs he wanted to doover... to make them better or different for the second show...

perfectionist

BartVanHemelen said:

IMHO the estate should first release a definitive document of Prince's final tour.

There are likely soundboard recordings of all 22 concerts (2 @ PP, 11 @ AUS, 9 @ USA). There should be a deluxe box set with:

- all gigs
- a professionally filmed video of at least one of those shows
- a tourbook-like photo-album

- a documentary containing personal testimonials from people who went to the gigs and have interesting stories (no "best ever" BS) and backstage info from technicians etc.
- probably more ideas

I'd even argue that all professionally filmed concerts should be included; or perhaps that there should be a separate box set if there are too many.

Perhaps there should be three box sets:
- the PP concerts + documentary
- The AUS tour
- the USA tour

However, that will take a serious investment: all recordings need to be found and prepared for release. Perhaps the professionally videotaped ones are all still unedited (or perhaps there is an unfinshed edit), so that's more work to be done by professionals. The artwork needs to be designed, photos need to be selected, perhaps fans need to be contacted to obtain their photos,...

Not all of the Australian shows were recorded. Melbourne certainly wasn't.

With that said, I agree that all of the P&M shows should be released (audio...). I've said that from the day he passed.

SquirrelMeat said:

Problem is, niche market product sold on a mass market platform will make little money. It will be copied and won't hold an asset value.

The optimum model for niche is subscription, but it needs to offer a level of exclusivity to maintain its membership numbers.

If they have any sense, they will build it around a model that charges an annual fee, but sends out physical, time limited product. Like a deluxe package gig or outtake CD every quarter.

They will rise in value so the membership will have worth.

They need to look at the business model of things like Rock / movie poster commissioning, which is a highly lucrative business through people like Mondotees, Or Hotel Chocolat' which sends out exclusive product every month to its subscribers.

I hope they do something like this. Sort a return to the NPG Music Club.

They could do it Crystal Ball-style (but not mess it up) by taking a minimum number of pre-orders before releasing. They could even show a tally, so we know how close we are to hitting the target

I'd prefer subscription though.

BartVanHemelen said:

IMHO the estate should first release a definitive document of Prince's final tour.

There are likely soundboard recordings of all 22 concerts (2 @ PP, 11 @ AUS, 9 @ USA). There should be a deluxe box set with:

- all gigs
- a professionally filmed video of at least one of those shows
- a tourbook-like photo-album

- a documentary containing personal testimonials from people who went to the gigs and have interesting stories (no "best ever" BS) and backstage info from technicians etc.
- probably more ideas

I'd even argue that all professionally filmed concerts should be included; or perhaps that there should be a separate box set if there are too many.

Perhaps there should be three box sets:
- the PP concerts + documentary
- The AUS tour
- the USA tour

(Thats too much for the general public, so you'd need smaller box sets featuring only one or two concerts, or perhaps a "highlights" concert compiled from various gigs, à la From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah.)

This should be a celebration of that tour, a final document.

However, that will take a serious investment: all recordings need to be found and prepared for release. Perhaps the professionally videotaped ones are all still unedited (or perhaps there is an unfinshed edit), so that's more work to be done by professionals. The artwork needs to be designed, photos need to be selected, perhaps fans need to be contacted to obtain their photos,...

And then this needs to be a worldwide release, well-timed, and promoted properly. For instance an edited version of the documentary could be shown on TV, coupled with a professionally filmed concert.

But I don't see that happening without support from a major player. And I don't even know if this would be a big money maker, or more something like a prestige project. So that's a major hurdle.

That would be heaven.

IstenSzek said:

hw3004 said:

...the OP's right - the Springsteen model is the one to go for. Check this out

http://live.brucespringsteen.net/

He's realeasing shows from his current tour on an almost as-played basis, and simultaneously releasing archive performances from his vaults on a regular basis. He's pretty much covered all his major tours from the past 40 years. The releases are on a number of download formats (mp3/lossless/hi-res) and also available as physical cd's. I do think this is a pretty niche exercise but the costs must be pretty minimal on this so it's almost pure profit.

If I was in charge of the estate, I'd start releasing "classic" shows from each major tour every couple of months, interspersing them with aftershow performances...

i used to visit that springsteen site from time to time and wish prince would start doing that.

now i hope the estate will do it. it's the best possible way to go.

once in a while a very memorable show or album can be released with more fanfare and be
promoted on more visible platforms.

and all the while warners can release deluxe pacakges of the classic albums he did for them.

Nugs.net

purplethunder3121 said:

IstenSzek said:

i used to visit that springsteen site from time to time and wish prince would start doing that.

now i hope the estate will do it. it's the best possible way to go.

once in a while a very memorable show or album can be released with more fanfare and be
promoted on more visible platforms.

and all the while warners can release deluxe pacakges of the classic albums he did for them.

Nugs.net

BartVanHemelen says:

IMHO the estate should first release a definitive document of Prince's final tour.

There are likely soundboard recordings of all 22 concerts (2 @ PP, 11 @ AUS, 9 @ USA). There should be a deluxe box set with:

- all gigs
- a professionally filmed video of at least one of those shows
- a tourbook-like photo-album

- a documentary containing personal testimonials from people who went to the gigs and have interesting stories (no "best ever" BS) and backstage info from technicians etc.
- probably more ideas

I'd even argue that all professionally filmed concerts should be included; or perhaps that there should be a separate box set if there are too many.

Perhaps there should be three box sets:
- the PP concerts + documentary
- The AUS tour
- the USA tour

(Thats too much for the general public, so you'd need smaller box sets featuring only one or two concerts, or perhaps a "highlights" concert compiled from various gigs, à la From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah.)

This should be a celebration of that tour, a final document.

However, that will take a serious investment: all recordings need to be found and prepared for release. Perhaps the professionally videotaped ones are all still unedited (or perhaps there is an unfinshed edit), so that's more work to be done by professionals. The artwork needs to be designed, photos need to be selected, perhaps fans need to be contacted to obtain their photos,...

And then this needs to be a worldwide release, well-timed, and promoted properly. For instance an edited version of the documentary could be shown on TV, coupled with a professionally filmed concert.

But I don't see that happening without support from a major player. And I don't even know if this would be a big money maker, or more something like a prestige project. So that's a major hurdle.

My thoughts toward Bart's ideas for assembling a Prince Piano & Microphone tour compliation, FWIW. I'd cut some scraps.

>

To have all available recorded shows placed in a bound series as a deluxe package would be good. My one fear would be that having it all could run the risk of being repetitive, however, I suppose that having all the concerts would be the overall best way to experience the feel of the tour. Hearing Prince's varying nuances might actually be brilliant. Having an option to choose a compilation exibiting choice segements among various shows could be a good option to produce for the admirers and curious who want less.

>

I'm no documentarian, but I suspect that adding bonus presentations of audiendce feedback to a historical tour documentary might be challenging to achieve. It would be interesting to learn how legitimate audience interviewees could be found if such footage was not captured at the event. I vote "no" to audience recounting of tales and impressions of the shows anyway, because that is a "stuff we all do" showcase that really goes nowhere. No critics, either, please, because they come a dime-a-dozen and can probably fill the The Great Salt Lake. My thinking is, why build added expense to the project with such a banal dimension? You can come to Prince.org to get an abundance of the same for free if you can stand it! I agree that to collect words from stage technicians/producers would be great, and maybe add a few bits from celebrity friends and artistic associates--I'd view the spectacle/discovery by such luminaries as something to add a little gleam to the package.

>

Give me the events themselves, well-framed video, with a bare minimum of fluff. It is a musical tour and the performance should be the main statement, IMO. If there's backstage vid. footage, then WOW! YES! Maybe add the interviews I mention and a few photos, but that's all I'd need to feel a deluxe experinece. I feel that giving much more than that would be B.S. if such a product could even materialize.

>

Promotions? Don't know much about that. I feel that the materialization of such a project will sustain the niche without much further extension of appeal at this time. Of course a HUGE promotion would generate a bit of buzz, but maybe not proportionate to the expense involved for the push. Perhaps over time such a product offering may broaden the artist's mass appeal. It may be difficult to change that momentum at this time, but I say if a P&M concert package can be created get it out and see what happens.

he wanted to be known as the MOST prolific artist of all time......something needs to be done thats unprecedented

^^^I love me some Prince. We don't know what he's got for us in those stacks of tapes. How many live concert recordings are there? How much of it are song sketches, or alternative versions of songs that we already know? Are there electronica opusues? Acoustic gems or horn orchestras? Acapella treasures? What are the proportions of music in the popular vein of funk, rock, soul, or [insert genre]? We've barely begun to scratch the surface of knowing what exactly he has left for us. I feel that having the bulk of the stuff published in any form whatsoever or simply having it heard in and of itself could be an unprecedented acheivement! Nevermind the kind of packaging or promotional effort some commercial enterprise may devise.