...not designed to make $$$?

The Vault: Old Friends 4 Sale

Why do you ask that?

Some would say "Kama Sutra", "New Power Soul", Chaos and Disorder, TRC...

my thoughts: i don't think p did chaos & disorder 4 money, either...

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I wonder how much he makes off his albums these days? Is touring or the NPGMC his main source of income now?

Anxiety said:

Contractual filler, bound by $$$.

NettieSmiles said:

Prince usually makes $$$ from his spin-offs.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Contractual filler, bound by $$$.

Anji said:

Yeah, but, you wanna go that route, "The Truth" was sposed to be a bonus disc, just for the suckers that ordered it through the site, wasn't it?

There you go. Bound by $$.

And it sounds like he spent 10 minutes makin the whole disc.

NettieSmiles said:

The 'controversial' stance was designed to draw attention.

otan said:

Crystal Ball was a gift to fans but The Truth was heaven-sent.

Anji said:

Original 'Ball was a gift. The commercial 'Ball was a product.

But. Okay. Tomato, Potato.

Anji - U Muppet! Where have you been? Its been really quiet without ya!

These are all the albums that I feel he made 2 pay the bills:

1999
Purple Rain
Sign O' The Times
Batman
Diamonds & Pearls
Come
Chaos And Disorder
Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic

I think he had one eye on the mixing console and another on his wallet!

That's not 2 say that any of the above R bad albums. Some are but most aren't! I'm drunk. Urrrgh.

otan said:

Isn't the disc 45 minutes or so? How is that possible? Did he just record 10 minutes of notes and then sample them in different orders? That's revolutionary!

You learn something new about Prince every day on this site...

NettieSmiles said:

New Power Soul paid for his huge house in Spain, So it made $$$

I wanted to Laugh but alot of His Albums haven't Sound like Money Makers over the past Decade IMHO.Welcome Back Anji!

mistermaxxx said:

Come - Contractual filler, bound by $$$.
The Black Album - Contractual filler, bound by $$$.
Exodus - Spin-off, designed to make $$$.
The Gold Experience - An album designed to be classic, to make $$$.
Chaos & Disorder - Contractual filler, bound by $$$.
Emancipation - An attempt to show Warners how to make $$$.
Crystal Ball - A gift to fans and designed to make $$$.
The Truth - A heaven-sent album, no obligation to anyone.
Kamasutra - A 'contractual' apology, bound by $$$.
Newpower Soul - Number 1 at the bank spin-off, bound by $$$.
The Vault - Contractual Filler, bound by $$$.
Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic - $$$.
The Rainbow Children - A controversial album, designed to make $$$.
ONA and ONA Live - A gift to fans and designed to make $$$.
Xpectation - A 'contractual' apology bound by $$$.

.
[This message was edited Sat Apr 12 0:15:20 PDT 2003 by Anji]

Anji said:

Prince is all about the Money&You Know it&ain't nothing wrong with that just admit it.

Maxxx, I don't think $$$ is necessarily a 'bad' thing. In Prince's case, I think it was a necessary search for him.

Anji said:

Since you seem to be casting a wide net, one could argue that "The Truth" was included as a "contractual apology" (to use your term) just like "Kamasutra."

The criteria that you are using in making the distinctions therefore are not an effective way of distinguishing those releases, since they all yield the same result (somehow linked to money). If we accept that it is unavoidable for art and commerce to overlap at some point, then we should come up with perhaps a different question.

Seems to me there are different issues at play:

1. What was the artist's intention in producing the work? What were his primary considerations? Motives?

2. How was the art used? Some things were released reluctantly in order to fulfill contractual obligations; some were released independently of major label support; some were released through direct mail; etc.

That something was used as "contractual filler" does not necessarily mean that it was "designed" to make money.

In fact, if we went with a strict understanding of "designed to make money" then we would disqualify most of the releases you listed because they overwhelmingly seem to reflect Prince's ambivalence or total disregard of commercial interests, as reflected in the way he (1) created the piece (2) it's content (3) the nature of release (4) promotions and (5) sales.

Come -
(1) from what I recall "Come" derives from the Ulysses project, Prince's attempt at a multimedia/musical/opera. I don't know enough about his intents, but I don't recall it being considered contract filler.
(2) it's content was semi-commercial, although there were several pieces on there which were anti-commercial: the length of the title track, Papa and Solo, the graphic and unavoidable sexual content (which would be difficult to censor) all make this a difficult commercial album.
(3) it was released by WB records, so that's pretty commercial
(4) I don't recall any videos, but he did release a couple maxi singles which indicates an attempt to engage promotional activities
(5) sales, handled by WB records; they weren't hot, but it was a major label.
I would say that this was intended to make money.

The Black Album -
(1) I would argue that the Black Album was conceived out of a desire to prove his funk bonafides, his artistic response to the hip hop aesthetic. So this is art.
(2) the content was not very commercial. Le Grind could have been a release, along with When 2 R in Love, but that's pretty much it. So I would say this is art.
(3) His withdrawal of the release in 87 indicates that he let his art/spirit overrule any commercial interests in this project. It's subsequent release in 94, as part of the deal he brokered with WB does not IMHO satisfy the "commerce" criteria. Plus it was limited release.
(4) no promo support, no money.
(5) sales handled by WB, but again limited release, so no money really.
This is art first. Its release in 94 is about fulfilling an agreement to get out of contract. I think that's different than saying it was designed for money. This was def art first and foremost.

Exodus -
(1) Side project. To get music out there. Again this is seeming to be an art driven project.
(2) The content again does not seem to be commerce friendly. It is a bit of a concept album which lends itself more to the artistic considerations. Hiding his identity and withdrawing behind Tora Tora character again doesn't seem to be too commercial.
(3) Released in Europe under Edel. Independently. Again money doesn't seem to be the main concern here
(4) There was some promo support and touring--but I don't know if I would say it was to fulfill a moneymaking agenda for that album
(5) Independent sales..
I would say this one was art as well.

Okay I'm too tired to go through the rest, but here's what I think of the rest of the list:

The Gold Experience - art & commerce equal but there are signs that this was designed to be a commercial success

Chaos & Disorder - art. contract filler does not in and of itself convince me that this was designed for money

Emancipation - def $$$

Crystal Ball - that this was being marketed so heavily PRIOR to its release, I'm inclined to say this was a $$$ making venture from the start. it's a collection, not an album conceived as one unit... just outtakes thrown together to be sold to fans.

The Truth - I would agree with you and say this was art. It's inclusion into Crystal Ball notwithstanding. Although I would say it was designed as art but had to be used as part of that apology thing.

Kamasutra - Same as The Truth, this was his wedding suite for him and Mayte so this is pretty personal art. But regardless of its initial design, I'd say this was added to the Crystal Ball set as part of a $$$ consideration.

Newpower Soul - designed for commercial appeal... $$$

The Vault - Again it seems like a collection thrown together (in a way that Chaos & Disorder wasn't) for the purposes of getting rid of WB. So I would say that art takes backseat to commerce here. $$$

Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic - $$$. Pretty much. Too many cooks in the kitchen (Londell, Clive, Kirk) this was an attempt at commercial revival. Def some gems there but kinda all over the place release.

The Rainbow Children - Nah this was art. Risky art. Uncontrived. He had something to say. Last thing on his mind when he made this was how much money it was gonna make him at the bank. Art.

ONA Piano - At its creation this was art as pure as The Truth. However that it became part of a financial obligation/merchandise obligation to members... I'm 50-50 on it.

ONA Live - I think I'd say $$$ here. It's what the fans want a live album...

Xpectation - Like ONA Piano, I think this is art first... that later had to be issued for $$$ reasons so I'm 50-50.

Nice assessment NPS.

I think this is stupid. Why is "Exodus" for example "bound by $$$"? Only because it's a side-project?

Wow, NwPwr!

Okay, I'll explore this side of the argument a little further. Most of Prince's releases are designed by art but ended up being bound by $$$, mainly due to the path for artistic freedom. (Maybe $$$ and contracts serving Warners, are indeed a different thing. In that case, the following arguments do not apply).

For example, Come, The Black Album, Chaos & Disorder, The Vault. These releases, although initially conceived artistically, eventually got released to satisfy Warners. They ENDED UP being bound by $$$. That they didn't shift units, means that they were not commercial enough.

Yes, Exodus was an artistic endeavour, as was Newpower Soul. Could it be argued that because they were both independent releases backed by Prince's usual brand of promotion (concerts, interviews etc), that he indeed wanted to shift units. In the case of Exodus, I'd say things were more commercially driven in their FINAL push to the marketplace (maxi-singles, aftershow performances on tour, TV appearances etc). Newpower Soul also received much in the way of promotion (interviews, TV appearances, video).

Kamasutra was personal, as was Xpectation, hence they are artistic endeavours. It can still be argued that they were included in contracts designed to lessen dissatisfied fans and that means they both become a commercial considerations. The Crystal Ball fiasco was eventually shipped with Kamasutra as an appeasement. Given that The Truth was included as a 'true' bonus in the Crystal Ball set sold both online and to retail, I would argue that this album was neither conceived, bound or pushed by $$$.

The Rainbow Children is art of the highest order. I think ONA Live was driven by commercial considerations, I'm undecided on ONA. The NPGMC Year 2 was eventually appeased with Xpectation and C-Note. These must have been commercial considerations, although the music was conceived from the soul.

The Truth, Kamasutra, ONA Piano & Xpectation...

CalhounSq said:

I was just gonna mention Xpectation but ya beat me to it...

Though if the motivation for releasing it to club members was as an apology for a 2002 NPGMC gone arguably awry, such a stab at customer satisfaction might be seen as money-based.

Just tryin' to rise to the logic on this thread...

Anxiety said:

It's an excellent sign of things to come for NPGMC, if Xpectation was indeed made available for the purpose of satisfying Prince's clients...

nothing after the Hits/B-Sides was meant to make money.

i mean, not seriously. sure, there were aspirations and some half-hearted attempts, but i mean, really... look at it all and how it was handled. surely no one expected any of it to make money.

AaronSuperior said:

Warners should have wanted to make $$$ from The Gold Experience but they got bound up in politics with Prince. Prince certainly wanted to make $$$ from Emancipation.

Anji said:

oh, i'm sure they both WANTED to make money on these albums, respectively. but they sure did their damnedest to make sure they didn't...