naw, 10 years old in a field like music, about the earliest manifestation of any kind of ability there is in humans, the first ten years is significant. Great musicians almost always start young, pre-ten really. And again it's too obvious that Prince was around Jazz the 7th and 9th chords etc.., pretty much were frowned upon in rock circles right from the get go, of course in r and b they were used quite a bit but Prince was clearly jazz influenced, the chords he used would have been major/minor triads rather than the textured chords he used and he tended to use his own types of chords also, word is that Lisa had a hand in the harmonics because as prince said she's do things like press two notes with one finger, but honestly, lisa wasn't in the picture in 1980 when I wanna be your lover and that whole album had rich, four note chords galore, all from a guy who actually tended to be a minimalist in just about every other way. I've mentioned before, I tend to not like the insinuation that he needed these people to 'show" him anything as he was pretty eclectic. As musicians, i really don't know how to rank wendy and lisa, I always thought they were pretty limited but I've actually heard lisa do some great stuff on the piano in the last year with all the various boots, and wendy actually didn't do badly in some of the live shows but as even she admitted, some of the folks who came later could play circles around her. I think their biggest contribution was as an image maker in an era where that wasn't common to see a mixed gender/race band that goes for bobby and fink too. In finks case, he could play his ass off so i was surprised to see in that last interview of prince's where he mentioned that Fink couldn't improvise at all, surprised me, i didn't know that.

[Edited 6/30/17 18:09pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Laurarichardson is confused by the way the author of the article typed the name. Lisa did not type the name. So asking Lisa for clarity would be Laurarichardsons best move.

morningsong said:

Damn y'all got me confused.



Betty Davis







Bette Davis

I wish it would wake some people up to what a difference a letter makes. But it won't, and confusion will ensue.

PeteSilas said:

babynoz said:

Thank you.

De-bunking org myths is a full time job.

he said in the ebony interview in 86 that he was more strict with melody than his father was, I thought at the time that he knew himself because his melodies were usually very, very simple in those days. 1999 is nursery rhyme simple, let''s go crazy and many others.

Interesting that he was able to make that comparison if he wasn't familiar with jazz or his dad's music as people are claiming.

PeteSilas said:

naw, 10 years old in a field like music, about the earliest manifestation of any kind of ability there is in humans, the first ten years is significant. Great musicians almost always start young, pre-ten really. And again it's too obvious that Prince was around Jazz the 7th and 9th chords etc.., pretty much were frowned upon in rock circles right from the get go, of course in r and b they were used quite a bit but Prince was clearly jazz influenced, the chords he used would have been major/minor triads rather than the textured chords he used and he tended to use his own types of chords also, word is that Lisa had a hand in the harmonics because as prince said she's do things like press two notes with one finger, but honestly, lisa wasn't in the picture in 1980 when I wanna be your lover and that whole album had rich, four note chords galore, all from a guy who actually tended to be a minimalist in just about every other way. I've mentioned before, I tend to not like the insinuation that he needed these people to 'show" him anything as he was pretty eclectic. As musicians, i really don't know how to rank wendy and lisa, I always thought they were pretty limited but I've actually heard lisa do some great stuff on the piano in the last year with all the various boots, and wendy actually didn't do badly in some of the live shows but as even she admitted, some of the folks who came later could play circles around her. I think their biggest contribution was as an image maker in an era where that wasn't common to see a mixed gender/race band that goes for bobby and fink too. In finks case, he could play his ass off so i was surprised to see in that last interview of prince's where he mentioned that Fink couldn't improvise at all, surprised me, i didn't know that.

[Edited 6/30/17 18:09pm]

^^Great points made here.

OldFriends4Sale said:

BillieBalloon said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince was alienated from his father after he put him out at age 12.

John L Nelson came back into Prince's life around 1984/85 and then there was a period where stuff between Prince's father and sister Sharon (like that 1990ish documentary exposing the Prince of Darkness) put some serious distance between them. I don't believe Prince went to his fathers funeral.

None if this negates the fact that Prince learned from a young age his father played piano and performed in clubs with his jazz band. Prince stated publically rhat his father influenced him musically. The first music we hear as children is the music our parents listen to,...in Princes case it was his fathers love of jazz. . [Edited 6/30/17 18:59pm]

Of course his father influenced him.
So did things about his mother. That is all a given.
But that doesn't mean he learned the techniques of jazz.

Prince never became a jazz musicians/artist.
As he explained to people comparing him to MJ

he said "I don't pay attention to that, I'm after/with other ax men"

jdcxc said:

It's laughable. And I doubt Wendy was well versed on Jazz prior to her joining the Revolution. Prince taught her how to play guitar...lol.

Hey, it's as ridiculous to suggest that Wendy knew nothing about jazz as it is to suggest that Prince didn't. John L. Nelson was a jazz pianist, so Prince had to know jazz, but Mike Melvoin was, too--although one with greater success as a working musician--yet his daughter has no clue about it? Obviously they both had familiarity with a wider range of music than just radio rock and pop--I'm guessing at most the members of the Revolution sort of guided Prince to listening to and thinking deeper about a few specific things he maybe hadn't paid much attention to or thought much about. Of course, I also think that they weren't completely ignorant of When The Saints Go Marching In before December 1984, either--but who knows?

laurarichardson said:

Lisa was discussing old movies when she referenced Prince asking her to sing like Bette Davis. Was Bette Davis known for her singing? Or was Bette Davis the singer known for loud screaming singing style? Just think about it for a minute. Lisa is clueless.

I'm not sure what you're citing here, but I'm very confused by the idea of Lisa singing like Betty Davis--I'm just not hearing that as a possibility. She couldn't possibly do it. She might be able to sing like Bette Davis.

PeteSilas said:

naw, 10 years old in a field like music, about the earliest manifestation of any kind of ability there is in humans, the first ten years is significant. Great musicians almost always start young, pre-ten really. And again it's too obvious that Prince was around Jazz the 7th and 9th chords etc.., pretty much were frowned upon in rock circles right from the get go, of course in r and b they were used quite a bit but Prince was clearly jazz influenced, the chords he used would have been major/minor triads rather than the textured chords he used and he tended to use his own types of chords also, word is that Lisa had a hand in the harmonics because as prince said she's do things like press two notes with one finger, but honestly, lisa wasn't in the picture in 1980 when I wanna be your lover and that whole album had rich, four note chords galore, all from a guy who actually tended to be a minimalist in just about every other way. I've mentioned before, I tend to not like the insinuation that he needed these people to 'show" him anything as he was pretty eclectic. As musicians, i really don't know how to rank wendy and lisa, I always thought they were pretty limited but I've actually heard lisa do some great stuff on the piano in the last year with all the various boots, and wendy actually didn't do badly in some of the live shows but as even she admitted, some of the folks who came later could play circles around her. I think their biggest contribution was as an image maker in an era where that wasn't common to see a mixed gender/race band that goes for bobby and fink too. In finks case, he could play his ass off so i was surprised to see in that last interview of prince's where he mentioned that Fink couldn't improvise at all, surprised me, i didn't know that.

[Edited 6/30/17 18:09pm]

Now, I'm not arguing with much of what you say here (because either I think you're right or I don't know enough to really argue a particular point)--but I do want to mention that the "word" in the bolded was Prince's own, since that's from his description of what drew him to her. Now, that's probably a matter of like being drawn to like--she could do what he wanted her to be able to do, and he wouldn't have to struggle to get her to do it or to teach her to do it. But that still lets him move in those directions even more than he could with a different player (and who he had later doesn't matter at this point--he hadn't had them yet).

Well, no matter what any of us think, Prince must have had some respect for the revolution, we know this from things he said and also from things he told other people. In that recent podcast, the guy who did his sound said he asked something along the lines of who were his favorite band (sorry, i'm not getting the exact question) anyway, prince seeming said without hesitation "the revolution". I have to admit, i couldn't or didn't always see what they brought, but Prince obviously did, I always thought his line about "they say you lost your fire, when another musician took you higher, little do they know you wouldn't have passed go" (again, sorry, not exact but you guys know the lyrics,old friends for sale) was definitely directed at the revolution and most likely Wendy in particular. However, Prince had at least enough background to use jazz chords, it's what he gravitated towards his whole career as a songwriter. I don't think it was an accident and he didn't get it from the rock and roll he grew up on.

EddieC said:

PeteSilas said:

naw, 10 years old in a field like music, about the earliest manifestation of any kind of ability there is in humans, the first ten years is significant. Great musicians almost always start young, pre-ten really. And again it's too obvious that Prince was around Jazz the 7th and 9th chords etc.., pretty much were frowned upon in rock circles right from the get go, of course in r and b they were used quite a bit but Prince was clearly jazz influenced, the chords he used would have been major/minor triads rather than the textured chords he used and he tended to use his own types of chords also, word is that Lisa had a hand in the harmonics because as prince said she's do things like press two notes with one finger, but honestly, lisa wasn't in the picture in 1980 when I wanna be your lover and that whole album had rich, four note chords galore, all from a guy who actually tended to be a minimalist in just about every other way. I've mentioned before, I tend to not like the insinuation that he needed these people to 'show" him anything as he was pretty eclectic. As musicians, i really don't know how to rank wendy and lisa, I always thought they were pretty limited but I've actually heard lisa do some great stuff on the piano in the last year with all the various boots, and wendy actually didn't do badly in some of the live shows but as even she admitted, some of the folks who came later could play circles around her. I think their biggest contribution was as an image maker in an era where that wasn't common to see a mixed gender/race band that goes for bobby and fink too. In finks case, he could play his ass off so i was surprised to see in that last interview of prince's where he mentioned that Fink couldn't improvise at all, surprised me, i didn't know that.

[Edited 6/30/17 18:09pm]

Now, I'm not arguing with much of what you say here (because either I think you're right or I don't know enough to really argue a particular point)--but I do want to mention that the "word" in the bolded was Prince's own, since that's from his description of what drew him to her. Now, that's probably a matter of like being drawn to like--she could do what he wanted her to be able to do, and he wouldn't have to struggle to get her to do it or to teach her to do it. But that still lets him move in those directions even more than he could with a different player (and who he had later doesn't matter at this point--he hadn't had them yet).

[Edited 6/30/17 21:38pm]

jdcxc said:

It's laughable. And I doubt Wendy was well versed on Jazz prior to her joining the Revolution. Prince taught her how to play guitar...lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Melvoin

Michael "Mike" Melvoin (May 10, 1937 – February 22, 2012) was an American jazz pianist, composer, and arranger. He served as chairman and president of The Recording Academy and worked as a prolific studio musician, recording with Frank Sinatra, John Lennon, The Jackson 5, Natalie Cole, and The Beach Boys. Melvoin was nominated for the 2003 Grammy Award for Best Jazz Instrumental Solo for "All Or Nothing At All" from his album It's Always You

Melvoin worked extensively as a studio musician, performing on the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds (1966), Frank Sinatra's That's Life (1966), the Jackson 5's ABC (1970), John Lennon's "Stand by Me" (1975), Tom Waits' Nighthawks at the Diner (1975), and Barbra Streisand's "Evergreen (Love Theme from A Star Is Born)" (1976). He worked in the early 1970s as a music director on The Partridge Family recordings, often playing keyboard, and also began composing for film and television including contributing scores to Fame and MacGyver.

His children, Wendy (of Prince's band The Revolution, and later of Wendy & Lisa), Susannah and Jonathan all became professional musicians.

Melvoin was the first active musician to serve as the head of NARAS. When NARAS introduced category changes to the Grammys in 2011, he opposed them.^[3]

Melvoin died in Burbank, California on February 22, 2012 of cancer, at age 74

OldFriends4Sale said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Melvoin

Michael "Mike" Melvoin (May 10, 1937 – February 22, 2012) was an American jazz pianist, composer, and arranger. He served as chairman and president of The Recording Academy and worked as a prolific studio musician, recording with Frank Sinatra, John Lennon, The Jackson 5, Natalie Cole, and The Beach Boys. Melvoin was nominated for the 2003 Grammy Award for Best Jaz...ental Solo for "All Or Nothing At All" from his album It's Always You

Melvoin worked extensively as a studio musician, performing on the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds (1966), Frank Sinatra's That's Life (1966), the Jackson 5's ABC (1970), John Lennon's "Stand by Me" (1975), Tom Waits' Nighthawks at the Diner (1975), and Barbra Streisand's "Evergreen (Love Theme fro...r Is Born)" (1976). He worked in the early 1970s as a music director on The Partridge Family recordings, often playing keyboard, and also began composing for film and television including contributing scores to Fame and MacGyver.

His children, Wendy (of Prince's band The Revolution, and later of Wendy & Lisa), Susannah and Jonathan all became professional musicians.

Melvoin was the first active musician to serve as the head of NARAS. When NARAS introduced category changes to the Grammys in 2011, he opposed them.[3]

Melvoin died in Burbank, California on February 22, 2012 of cancer, at age 74

Keys to Your Mind (Liberty, 1966) Between the Two (Liberty, 1968) The Plastic Cow Goes Moooooog (Dot, 1970) Redeye (Voss, 1988) The Capitol Sessions (Naim, 1999) Oh Baby (City Light, 2002) It's Always You (City Light, 2003) Like Jazz (City Light, 2003) Playing the Word (City Light, 2006) You Know (City Light, 2006)

Wow, that's really impressive. I didn't know that about their dad.

[Edited 6/30/17 22:07pm]

ya, he was a member of the legendary "wrecking crew" he' in a docu i have, he talks about almost getting shot by phil spector. You can definitely see where Wendy picked up some of her attitude, if not talent.

PennyPurple said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Melvoin

Michael "Mike" Melvoin (May 10, 1937 – February 22, 2012) was an American jazz pianist, composer, and arranger. He served as chairman and president of The Recording Academy and worked as a prolific studio musician, recording with Frank Sinatra, John Lennon, The Jackson 5, Natalie Cole, and The Beach Boys. Melvoin was nominated for the 2003 Grammy Award for Best Jaz...ental Solo for "All Or Nothing At All" from his album It's Always You

Melvoin worked extensively as a studio musician, performing on the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds (1966), Frank Sinatra's That's Life (1966), the Jackson 5's ABC (1970), John Lennon's "Stand by Me" (1975), Tom Waits' Nighthawks at the Diner (1975), and Barbra Streisand's "Evergreen (Love Theme fro...r Is Born)" (1976). He worked in the early 1970s as a music director on The Partridge Family recordings, often playing keyboard, and also began composing for film and television including contributing scores to Fame and MacGyver.

His children, Wendy (of Prince's band The Revolution, and later of Wendy & Lisa), Susannah and Jonathan all became professional musicians.

Melvoin was the first active musician to serve as the head of NARAS. When NARAS introduced category changes to the Grammys in 2011, he opposed them.[3]

Melvoin died in Burbank, California on February 22, 2012 of cancer, at age 74

Keys to Your Mind (Liberty, 1966) Between the Two (Liberty, 1968) The Plastic Cow Goes Moooooog (Dot, 1970) Redeye (Voss, 1988) The Capitol Sessions (Naim, 1999) Oh Baby (City Light, 2002) It's Always You (City Light, 2003) Like Jazz (City Light, 2003) Playing the Word (City Light, 2006) You Know (City Light, 2006)

Wow, that's really impressive. I didn't know that about their dad.

[Edited 6/30/17 22:07pm]

PeteSilas said:

RodeoSchro said:

All I know is that Prince's music is full of more jazz chords than I ever realized.

it always was, always, I wanna be your lover is nothing but jazz chords really. Little Red Corvettes chords are jazz except for the chorus, prince also had lots of unexpected, really beautiful gospel chords in places where you wouldn't expect or really even notice. I didn't until I played them on piano, the bridge in raspberry beret and although not obvious at the time, although it should have been, the opening of Let's go crazy. I've always said it was the Jazz influence that really helped him stand out from the competition at the time.

Thats why nearly every one of Princes songs can be distilled onto Piano ..

There is an orger who posts Youtube Videos of Prince Songs on Piano alone...I cant remember who he is but its really nice to listen to...

Its almost as if without all the Bells and WHistles his Genius and versatility speaks even Louder.

Waiting for Violet the Organ Grinder....

EddieC said:

laurarichardson said:

Lisa was discussing old movies when she referenced Prince asking her to sing like Bette Davis. Was Bette Davis known for her singing? Or was Bette Davis the singer known for loud screaming singing style? Just think about it for a minute. Lisa is clueless.

I'm not sure what you're citing here, but I'm very confused by the idea of Lisa singing like Betty Davis--I'm just not hearing that as a possibility. She couldn't possibly do it. She might be able to sing like Bette Davis.

Lisa said Prince asked her to sing like Bette Davis and then she mentioned how they use to watch old movies making me think she thought he meant the Bette Davis from the movies and not Bette Davis the singer. At any rate since Lisa never sounded anything like Bette Davis I suspect she had no damm idea who the singer Bette Davis was.

laurarichardson said:

EddieC said:

I'm not sure what you're citing here, but I'm very confused by the idea of Lisa singing like Betty Davis--I'm just not hearing that as a possibility. She couldn't possibly do it. She might be able to sing like Bette Davis.

Lisa said Prince asked her to sing like Bette Davis and then she mentioned how they use to watch old movies making me think she thought he meant the Bette Davis from the movies and not Bette Davis the singer. At any rate since Lisa never sounded anything like Bette Davis I suspect she had no damm idea who the singer Bette Davis was.

is it Betty Davis or Bette Davis

Sounds like U have no damn idea either...
Send her a note and ask 4 clarity

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

Lisa said Prince asked her to sing like Bette Davis and then she mentioned how they use to watch old movies making me think she thought he meant the Bette Davis from the movies and not Bette Davis the singer. At any rate since Lisa never sounded anything like Bette Davis I suspect she had no damm idea who the singer Bette Davis was.

is it Betty Davis or Bette Davis

Sounds like U have no damn idea either...
Send her a note and ask 4 clarity

haha, hey, was the actress known for singing? I don't know much about her either, but I never heard about her singing. Davis the singer is an underground legend though. Prince, with his taste for 30's film and female singers, I don't know who he meant and neither wendy or lisa could sing worth a damn.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

is it Betty Davis or Bette Davis

Sounds like U have no damn idea either...
Send her a note and ask 4 clarity

haha, hey, was the actress known for singing? I don't know much about her either, but I never heard about her singing. Davis the singer is an underground legend though. Prince, with his taste for 30's film and female singers, I don't know who he meant and neither wendy or lisa could sing worth a damn.

I love Lisa's voice and love both of their chorus and singing with Prince's voice

morningsong said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

is it Betty Davis or Bette Davis

Sounds like U have no damn idea either...
Send her a note and ask 4 clarity

Why don't you look it up? I know who the singer is and I know who the actress is unlike your buddy. You give her a call and let me know how it goes.

Oh good Lord, this is a waste of time. Betty Davis is the singer, Bette Davis is the actress, laurarichardson refuses to pay any attention to the actual spellings--probably just to be annoying, because it's so easy to get it right. The original article spelled it Bette Davis, Lisa apparently understood it to be Bette Davis. Betty Davis is the more reasonable assumption, since she was a singer--BUT THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY Lisa could have ever sung LIKE BETTY DAVIS, so there's no way Prince could have meant that unless he was out of his mind at the time.

But this is beyond boring at this point, so I'm out.

EddieC said:

laurarichardson said:

EddieC said:

Oh good Lord, this is a waste of time. Betty Davis is the singer, Bette Davis is the actress, laurarichardson refuses to pay any attention to the actual spellings--probably just to be annoying, because it's so easy to get it right. The original article spelled it Bette Davis, Lisa apparently understood it to be Bette Davis. Betty Davis is the more reasonable assumption, since she was a singer--BUT THERE'S NO POSSIBLE WAY Lisa could have ever sung LIKE BETTY DAVIS, so there's no way Prince could have meant that unless he was out of his mind at the time.

But this is beyond boring at this point, so I'm out.

Lisa is the one that mentioned movies. How I spelled it has nothing to do with her ridiculous comment.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

haha, hey, was the actress known for singing? I don't know much about her either, but I never heard about her singing. Davis the singer is an underground legend though. Prince, with his taste for 30's film and female singers, I don't know who he meant and neither wendy or lisa could sing worth a damn.

I love Lisa's voice and love both of their chorus and singing with Prince's voice

they had chemistry with prince, it suited his sound, the flat, emotionaless bored sound fit him perfectly at the time and I liked it too, but they weren't singers.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I love Lisa's voice and love both of their chorus and singing with Prince's voice

they had chemistry with prince, it suited his sound, the flat, emotionaless bored sound fit him perfectly at the time and I liked it too, but they weren't singers.

LOL okay

.

Vanity wasn't a singer, but most sangers could touch her charisma and own it they way she did

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

they had chemistry with prince, it suited his sound, the flat, emotionaless bored sound fit him perfectly at the time and I liked it too, but they weren't singers.

LOL okay

.

Vanity wasn't a singer, but most sangers could touch her charisma and own it they way she did

don't get mad at me, i was gonna say vanity too, the way some of you guys get so defensive of the revolution is beyond me. No one gets that defensive over any other one of the talented people Prince worked with.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

LOL okay

.

Vanity wasn't a singer, but most sangers could touch her charisma and own it they way she did

don't get mad at me, i was gonna say vanity too, the way some of you guys get so defensive of the revolution is beyond me. No one gets that defensive over any other one of the talented people Prince worked with.

I defend Prince, the Time, the noituloveR, Vanity 6, the Revolution, Sheila E, the Family, Mazarati, Madhouse, Jill Jones, Cat Glover etc

Purple Soldiers

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

don't get mad at me, i was gonna say vanity too, the way some of you guys get so defensive of the revolution is beyond me. No one gets that defensive over any other one of the talented people Prince worked with.

I defend Prince, the Time, the noituloveR, Vanity 6, the Revolution, Sheila E, the Family, Mazarati, Madhouse, Jill Jones, Cat Glover etc

Purple Soldiers

if you say so

at any rate, i need to get my revolution tickets soon, i do want to see them, if their accessible, maybe even some autographs.