Could someone break it down for me? Is this correct? (and I am referring to the version on the album)

The notes for the falsetto part at the end was apparently Dr. Fink.

The opening chords were Wendy

The melody was some tweeked version of some basic melody prince came up with.

they lyrics were prince's.

the strings and keyboard parts were lIsa.

The guitar solo is entirely his? --correct? In other words, he is not mirroriing notes that Lisa came up with or something.

[Edited 6/23/17 12:26pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:39pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:42pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:43pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:54pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Could someone break it down for me? Is this correct? (and I am referring to the version on the album)

The notes for the falsetto part at the end was apparently Dr. Fink.

The opening chords were Wendy

The melody was some tweeked version of some basic melody prince came up with.

they lyrics were prince's.

the strings and keyboard parts were lIsa.

The guitar solo is entirely his? --correct? In other words, he is not mirroriing notes that Lisa came up with or something.

[Edited 6/23/17 12:26pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:39pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:42pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:43pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:54pm]

He wrote the entire song. The band somewhat influenced the sound by their personal playing style.

If you REALLY want to go down a purple rabbit hole, then you need to listen to Journey's "Faithfully" and then re-assess, because it seems from other posts you've made that you aren't happy with giving Prince any credit for "Purple Rain".

But my non-smart-ass answer is that we will never know exactly who did what. What we do know is that no one has ever complained that they didn't get proper credit for something they brought to the song. That's enough for me.

Here is why I am having trouble giving him much credit.... (recent billboard interview)

They talk about his very basic demo and how he allowed everyone to contribute but I can't figure out if he was there while they did it...Bobby's line..."and he just let us go" almost makes it sound like he had little involvement after the initial clunky melody. But then again, he might also be talking about Prince allowing them imput but being a part of the process as well. Obviously, the guitar solo is his but was it his before the first Avenue concert? But Wendy did say it was the combination of the 6 of them..(Prince, Bobby, Lisa, Wendy, Mark, Matt make 6 of course) so maybe that implies that he was there.

See this is what I complain about sometimes, he is almost written out of his most famous songs just by the fact that his involvment with the band once they did get ahold of a demo is unclear. And Mark in other interviews said that Prince had sometimes left them to for long periods with them to finish up..(maybe, he was just talking about what Wendy was talking about with the following line.."

a [finished demo] where he'd played all the instruments and be like “Here’s your part, here’s your part.”)

Wendy: My recollection of it, guys, is it was toward the end of rehearsals when we were getting ready to film, and he came in with sort of a rough idea of “Purple Rain,” but it was just the chords from the verse and a little bit of the verse melody -- there wasn’t any real chorus yet. He gave us those chords and it felt a little clunky at first, but then Lisa started playing [keyboard] strings --

Z: And Matt did the "neee-neee nee-nee" part.

Wendy: And I played those opening chords where I stretch the inversions and sort of re-harmonized the chord progression, which became the opening of the

re-harmonized the chord progression, which became the opening of the song.

Z: I’ll never forget, Prince’s bodyguard Big Chick [Huntsberry] walked in and went, “Man, that’s a country song.” It really… it’s the most Prince let people into his world, ever. “Purple Rain” is the ultimate combination of the six of us.

How so?

Wendy: He came in with just an idea -- it wasn’t a [finished demo] where he'd played all the instruments and be like “Here’s your part, here’s your part.” He just went, “I

have this idea, what you got?” We spent a day and that’s what we came up with.

There’s a bootleg floating around of just the piano and the strings of the song, and in the coda -- the "whoo-oo-oo" part at the end of the song -- the counter-melodies are fascinating: the strings, guitars, keyboards and bass are playing different but complementary parts. How did that all weave together?

Wendy: You just described what we are as a band.

Matt: We have a chemistry. The band was jamming that day on the chordal progressions. We all contributed our own parts to that song.

Z: And he just let us go. Then we did it at First Avenue -- and that’s the [album] take. It was the guts, the glory, everything. It was 10,000 degrees in there on an August night and we just went for it.

RodeoSchro said:

If you REALLY want to go down a purple rabbit hole, then you need to listen to Journey's "Faithfully" and then re-assess, because it seems from other posts you've made that you aren't happy with giving Prince any credit for "Purple Rain".

But my non-smart-ass answer is that we will never know exactly who did what. What we do know is that no one has ever complained that they didn't get proper credit for something they brought to the song. That's enough for me.

[Edited 6/23/17 16:16pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 16:22pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 16:28pm]

I'd be very curious as to what it sounded like at first all right, was it much more country-ish? Was it a kind of heartland americana anthem or was it just more obvious and major chord-y, like Gold? That chord progression in it is gorgeous and allows all sorts of complicated feelings to be expressed in a way the likes of the Journey song or really any of those big 80's power-balladeers never managed.

I feel adding that kind of thing is where the Revolution shined, not in the genius-inspiration moment which was all Prince but in fleshing it out and complicating it. If i'm being honest that's what is often missing from his later stuff where he had better players who played his vision incredibly well but were afraid of changing or mutating it.

I think "breaking it down" like these things can be completely separated is a silly, pointless and impossible exercise. The song is Prince's, it's obviously his, only in their most bitter days did W&L claim otherwise, but the music belongs to them all.

Having said that there are some specifics that can be pointed out, you can literally hear him making up the guitar solo on the spot at the original gig and compare it to what he was playing earlier that same day in rehearsal.

[Edited 6/23/17 16:31pm]

I love many of the songs Prince wrote that are obviously by himself in the studio but only one of them is super famous and that is When Doves Cry. (maybe Beautiful Ones, Sign of the Times, and Darling Nikki count)

But many of his most famous songs are not alone in a studio stuff..

Raspberry Beret--Prince basically joked that that was Lisa's song because of the chords in the background..(of course, he wrote the main melody and lyrics)

Kiss--people now write off Prince's involvement in the creation of this song (way too much now in my opinion)

Purple Rain--is massively collaborative

Let's Go Crazy--I have no idea but it sounds collaborative

Sometimes It Snows in April--Wendy and Lisa melody (prince lyrics)

Little Red Corvette-- Dez's much touted guitar solo is often the focus when people talke about that song (the lyrics are also discussed a bit, I guess)

1999--Prince's song but the other two vocalists actually sound louder for some reason which makes it sound less like a Prince song in a way.

Do Me Baby (doesn't Andre claim credit for that one sometimes)

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

And who cares...there are a couple thousand other songs written exclusively by prince that are brilliant masterpieces that blow purple rain gone...so? Are we actually questioning princes song writing abilities? Yeah, no I didn't think so...

[Edited 6/23/17 16:37pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 16:55pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 16:55pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 17:05pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 17:06pm]

not in the genius-inspiration moment which was all Prince but in fleshing it out and complicating it

A basic clunky melody is a genius inspired moment? (I don't know about that.)

ANybody can come up with a super basic melody. It is the fleshing it out --that's the genius. Do you think he was a part of the fleshing out (or was it mostly the Revolution.) ?

I think his later bands are really talented and they did contribute at times.. To me, Prince's bigger problems later in his career were his lack of editorial skills and his tendency to overproduce and chase trends (oh, and his bad press relations and his impossible to pronounce name...LOL). I still think the stuff he did in later songs like 7 (with the multiple vocals and mideastern sounds)--is outstanding stuff. But there is brlliance in his later work if one is willing to sort through it like through a rummage sale. (I am a huge fan of the song Dionne for example..I think its brilliantly quirky.) Deep catalogue Prince is so underrated IMO.

I would like to hear the guitar solo stuff in the two different versions of the purple rain that you referred to...(how it changed)

jaawwnn said:

I'd be very curious as to what it sounded like at first all right, was it much more country-ish? Was it a kind of heartland americana anthem or was it just more obvious and major chord-y, like Gold? That chord progression in it is gorgeous and allows all sorts of complicated feelings to be expressed in a way the likes of the Journey song or really any of those big 80's power-balladeers never managed.

I feel adding that kind of thing is where the Revolution shined, not in the genius-inspiration moment which was all Prince but in fleshing it out and complicating it. If i'm being honest that's what is often missing from his later stuff where he had better players who played his vision incredibly well but were afraid of changing or mutating it.

I think "breaking it down" like these things can be completely separated is a silly, pointless and impossible exercise. The song is Prince's, it's obviously his, only in their most bitter days did W&L claim otherwise, but the music belongs to them all.

Having said that there are some specifics that can be pointed out, you can literally hear him making up the guitar solo on the spot at the original gig and compare it to what he was playing earlier that same day in rehearsal.

[Edited 6/23/17 16:31pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 16:53pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 17:01pm]

http://www.startribune.com/revolution-keyboardist-shares-untold-stories-from-prince-s-soon-to-be-reissued-purple-rain/428738003/

The Minneapolis Star Tribune interviewed Lisa Coleman, who also talks about the creation of the song "Purple Rain."

these OP questions...









Who wrote Purple Rain, are u serious...


purplerabbit, the OP........

depends who you talk too, when you listen to some of Susan Rodgers interviews online. She says the other band members had hardly any contribution to any of the album.So who knows!But no matter what, everyone knows who was the main driving force was.

Some of her descriptions (of Let's Go Crazy and Purple Rain) do make it sound like he brought seeds of ideas (PR) and/or a demo (LGC) to rehearsals and worked with the Revolution to flesh them out. So, I think that's cool. Its like letting the ideas flow and being open to other ideas but ultimately Prince was there to decide what ended up in the song. If I am interpreting what she said correctly, he wasn't just throwing little scraps of melodies to the Revolution to turn into decent songs (I guess a control freak, wouldn't do that, would he?) Any of you elders care to confirm?

The article is vague on other songs (who did what is less clear) but I like the back stories.

She does make it really obvious that Darling nikki, WDO and the Beautiful Ones are all Prince.

I think she agrees with many that Electric Intercourse was better live. I,myself like the layered vocals but it does feel a little stiff compared to the live one.

http://www.startribune.com/revolution-keyboardist-shares-untold-stories-from-prince-s-soon-to-be-reissued-purple-rain/428738003/

bilbolives said:

http://www.startribune.com/revolution-keyboardist-shares-untold-stories-from-prince-s-soon-to-be-reissued-purple-rain/428738003/

The Minneapolis Star Tribune interviewed Lisa Coleman, who also talks about the creation of the song "Purple Rain."

[Edited 6/23/17 17:57pm]

The main driving force and who ultimately decided what made it on them records.

antonb said:

depends who you talk too, when you listen to some of Susan Rodgers interviews online. She says the other band members had hardly any contribution to any of the album.So who knows!But no matter what, everyone knows who was the main driving force was.

hey, I am not a musician. I don't know what entirely constitutes a writing credit.

thedance said:

these OP questions...









Who wrote Purple Rain, are u serious...


purplerabbit, the OP........

Ask Steve Perry, Neal Schon, and Jonathan Cain.

purplerabbithole said:

I am sorry I didn't mean to imply that you didn't know the catalogue. I use examples from his later work to make my point because my relative newness to Prince fanhood makes me think I have to prove that I was some knowledge. LOL.

I see your point about distinctive playing. Lisa is kind of brilliant, ain't she? YOu can hear her contributions.

jaawwnn said:

purplerabbithole said:

not in the genius-inspiration moment which was all Prince but in fleshing it out and complicating it

A basic clunky melody is a genius inspired moment? (I don't know about that.)

ANybody can come up with a super basic melody. It is the fleshing it out --that's the genius. Do you think he was a part of the fleshing out (or was it mostly the Revolutionp>

I think his later bands are really talented and they did contribute at times.. To me, Prince's bigger problems later in his career were his lack of editorial skills and his tendency to overproduce and chase trends (oh, and his bad press relations and his impossible to pronounce name...LOL). I still think the stuff he did in later songs like 7 (with the multiple vocals and mideastern sounds)--is outstanding stuff. But there is brlliance in his later work if one is willing to sort through it like through a rummage sale. (I am a huge fan of the song Dionne for example..I think its brilliantly quirky.) Deep catalogue Prince is so underrated IMO.

I would like to hear the guitar solo stuff in the two different versions of the purple rain that you referred to...(how it changed)

Well no, a basic melody that sounds like it has always existed but DIDNT is the kind of thing that takes a certain kind of genius, a super complicated showing off melody is often the realms of amateurs. Often with Prince its also what he did with harmonies and so on that's so impressive. Anyway, yes I believe he was involved in the fleshing out of songs, 100% involved most of the time. I'm sure his later bands did contribute, I like most of them but usually find them less distinctive players than the Revolution, with the odd exception. More session musician-y, they can play ANYTHING but you wouldn't hear them and go "ah, that's sounds like whoever on keyboard there". And yes of course I know his later brilliance, this ain't prince greatest hits .org. We all know the catalogue. The guitar solo can be heard on any bootlegs of the 1st avenue show and the rehearsal, take your pick of them. [Edited 6/23/17 19:15pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 19:23pm]

Prince wrote it. Even if the Revolution's accounts are true (and I assume they are), his status as composer doesn't change one little bit. What they're describing, as far as I can tell, would fit under the concept of arranging, and good on them for that. Band members and studio musicians have been doing that forever, without getting a writing credit--or only occasionally getting one. And in general, that's been appropriate. It's the sort of stuff folks like the Wrecking Crew did on half the pop charts back in the day--none of those songs would have been what they were without those folks coming up with riffs and lines, but they rarely were considered the writers of any part of the song. If Prince had felt like giving credit, feeling that they really did "make" the song into "the song," then cool. But he had the song. Just like he had Kiss (but not the arrangement), like he had Little Red Corvette (are people gonna consider every guitar solo to be part of the composition of a song?--yes, it matters to that record, but it's hardly necessary to the song. A similar solo hardly ever shows up in performances after Dez leaves. And it's still Little Red Corvette), like he had 1999 (he wrote the thing, he had them sing with him on the verses, and then decided after recording to drop the vocal parts out of the fuller vocal arrangement to leave harmonies as leads--they didn't even arrange the parts, and I really doubt any of them would have decided to do what he did--but even if they had... it's arrangement, not composition).

It's almost as if people think that since Prince can write songs and arrange and play and perform them entirely by himself, anytime anyone else contributes to any of the latter three things Prince's claim to writing also has to be re-evaluated. Many composers don't do the latter three things for the released versions of their compositions. But they still wrote them. But since, for him, the different parts of the process kind of blur together, it's hard for people to remember they really are separate things (especially when it comes to money and such).

As to the whole Journey thing... I feel about that the way I feel about Prince getting the credit on Stand Back. It would have been stupid for them to claim it, and it was ridiculous for him to get it. (I actually wonder if his checking with them wasn't due to the fact of the Stand Back credit, and he didn't want someone to require of him what he'd accepted from her). I consider Stand Back part of my Prince collection, but it's because of what he played on it, not because she decided to give him a composition credit because she composed over his changes.

Well in fairness, it's quite different; the whole thing about the Wrecking Crew/Funk Brothers not get arranging credit is that there was a lot of injustice in there for a long, long time and it's a bit of a crime that a fair few of them ended up destitute at the end of their life while the songwriters rolled in the dough.

I don't think the Revolution are missing a pile of credit or writing credits though, everyone who cares knows who they are and knows they added to the tracks, although we may disagree on exactly how much.

7salles said:

The composer creates harmony and main melody. The rest is arrangement. Purple rain is the same case of November Rain. A guy wrote the song (chords and vocal melody) and the rest of the band transformed it on a monster. Obs: only axl is credited as the composer. Obs 2: purple rain is especially known for the chorus and guitar solo (both created by prince) Obs 3: if slash never claimed credits for november rain nobody on revolution could not claim shit, As november is especially known for the solos. Obs: i only used guns as example because they always were very strict on who made what on the credits.

Well, it's a good comparison.

purplerabbithole said:

Could someone break it down for me? Is this correct? (and I am referring to the version on the album)

The notes for the falsetto part at the end was apparently Dr. Fink.

The opening chords were Wendy

The melody was some tweeked version of some basic melody prince came up with.

they lyrics were prince's.

the strings and keyboard parts were lIsa.

The guitar solo is entirely his? --correct? In other words, he is not mirroriing notes that Lisa came up with or something.

[Edited 6/23/17 12:26pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:39pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:42pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:43pm]

[Edited 6/23/17 12:54pm]

There is a recording of the song that ends up becoming purple rain, where Prince sings the he's 'gotta shake this feeling.' Same chords, same melody and this is prior to Prince taking the song to the band to work on. Purple Rain was already a song, the revolution expounded on what Prince had already created and helped make it the song we know and love. The impetus, inception and creation of the basic melody is Prince, all the lyrics are his as well.

Also, go listen to rehearsal tapes, there is no one talking other than Prince. He gives instruction and direction. At times he says play something here and allows them freedom to express themselves, but most of the time, Prince is so in control that he even tells them what sounds to use and how to play a line. That's producer/arranger work.

[Edited 6/25/17 0:53am]

Yes, even if the band contributed to it, it's not like Prince wasn't present during the rehearsal himself. He approved of what the song ultimately became and he was interacting with the other members.

People that arent musicians themselves often don't seem to be aware that coming up with stuff that sounds "epic" is fairly easy. It's often harmonically simple, repeated 3-4 note stuff with tons of reverberation effects ("echo") that the large public ends up considering "masterpieces". It's usually pretty tacky and simplistic stuff in the end.

"Purple Rain" is a rare exception in that sense, I think. It's harmonically richer than most similar "epic" songs, with the sus chords used throughout it giving it a soulful vibe and the added string arrangements actually being used for a calming effect (they're not used to make the piece sound "more bombastic"). Prince didn't allow it to go overboard.

Thanks.

After reading two interviews with Revolution members as well as the Purple Rain Deluxe liner notes, yeah, I get it now.

A beautiful collaboration but with PRince's ultimate approval leading the way. Its not my favorite Prince song but I still love it anyway. I just wish they wouldnt play its chorus every time a PRince story breaks on Tv.

Polo1026 said:

There is a recording of the song that ends up becoming purple rain, where Prince sings the he's 'gotta shake this feeling.' Same chords, same melody and this is prior to Prince taking the song to the band to work on. Purple Rain was already a song, the revolution expounded on what Prince had already created and helped make it the song we know and love. The impetus, inception and creation of the basic melody is Prince, all the lyrics are his as well.

Also, go listen to rehearsal tapes, there is no one talking other than Prince. He gives instruction and direction. At times he says play something here and allows them freedom to express themselves, but most of the time, Prince is so in control that he even tells them what sounds to use and how to play a line. That's producer/arranger work.

[Edited 6/25/17 0:53am]

Just a correction on this, that's not an earlier version it's just from a rehearsal from 1984, long after Purple Rain was recorded.

TrivialPursuit said:

purplerabbithole said:

I just wish they wouldnt play its chorus every time a PRince story breaks on Tv.

I think almost all of us can come together on that point. It's not gonna happen, but one can always hope they find some other songs. I hear he's got a few.

rogifan said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Ask Steve Perry, Neal Schon, and Jonathan Cain.

The only time it reminds me of Journey is when a piano into is used instead of guitar.

It honestly never reminded me of Journey. I never picked up on one and thought of the other. I remember the Cain story being posted here after Prince died, so now that's always in my head. The songs are a half-step off in chords, so it's a odd coincidence, yet not the first time it's happened.