ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

laurarichardson said:

Why are SNJ so delusional? You cannot keep a deal that one party does not want to be a part of and has already said they will sue if forced. Nothing will get done for years if they try to force UMG to hold up their end of the deal and UMG will just do a half ass job if they are involved with vault material.

You may only get access if you like in Mongolia and they could make WB shoddy and cheap marketing look like a million bucks. You can tell they are getting legal advice from Lonnie.

This letter is dated June 28, 2017.

The Judge has rescinded the UMG deal.

The Court is just now filing these documents that were submitted 2 months ago.

Thank you for the clarification. I can barely stand to read the court docs anymore but this means SNJ was still trying to keep the deal on the table to the very end. I am sorry but that was delusional on their part. What hold does LM have on them.

1Sasha said:

Thanks for the clarification. But, as LR said, these three are delusional. Of course, JMO, but if you read the Sharon interview, you would also see she has no clue what should be done. They just want money, pure and simple, lots of it and ASAP.

Did you see Sharon said there was too much frivilous litigation?

The litigation would have continued for years had the Judge not rescinded the UMG deal.

I know. I have to believe Prince knew these people regarded him only as a cash register.

1Sasha said:

I know. I have to believe Prince knew these people regarded him only as a cash register.

I know it's been said before, but Prince should have gotten his relatives OUT of his business 20 years ago. And Yes, it can be done. Contest my Will/Estate Plan?...you get nothing. Done.

1Sasha said:

Thanks for the clarification. But, as LR said, these three are delusional. Of course, JMO, but if you read the Sharon interview, you would also see she has no clue what should be done. They just want money, pure and simple, lots of it and ASAP.

And now it's clear why no will was left.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

1Sasha said:

I know. I have to believe Prince knew these people regarded him only as a cash register.

I know it's been said before, but Prince should have gotten his relatives OUT of his business 20 years ago. And Yes, it can be done. Contest my Will/Estate Plan?...you get nothing. Done.

Lol, Prince knew how to handle this situation and he did it by not leaving a will. Much much better than a clear cut cut-off. Make them work for it. You know, just like he worked for every dime.

Without going back to her specific comments, she said something like "when we own it." I thought, who do you think you are - you did nothing to earn this legacy! He was the one who worked 24/7/365 to make something of himself and then to keep innovating and delivering to his fans and the world for nearly four decades. That will be the d--- day when I kiss up to her or anyone like her. I wish he had left everything to a charity or the State of Minnesota and specifically cut them out.

1Sasha said:

Without going back to her specific comments, she said something like "when we own it." I thought, who do you think you are - you did nothing to earn this legacy! He was the one who worked 24/7/365 to make something of himself and then to keep innovating and delivering to his fans and the world for nearly four decades. That will be the d--- day when I kiss up to her or anyone like her. I wish he had left everything to a charity or the State of Minnesota and specifically cut them out.

you're not the only one! it also particularly galling in that it's obvious he was NOT close with his siblings...don't forget, Tyka lived just down the road from her dying-in-plain-sight beloved brother...where was she?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

1Sasha said:

Without going back to her specific comments, she said something like "when we own it." I thought, who do you think you are - you did nothing to earn this legacy! He was the one who worked 24/7/365 to make something of himself and then to keep innovating and delivering to his fans and the world for nearly four decades. That will be the d--- day when I kiss up to her or anyone like her. I wish he had left everything to a charity or the State of Minnesota and specifically cut them out.

you're not the only one! it also particularly galling in that it's obvious he was NOT close with his siblings...don't forget, Tyka lived just down the road from her dying-in-plain-sight beloved brother...where was she?

Maybe that was P's wishes.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

rogifan said:

Well it looks like Comerica is on the Youtube war path. 5 videos that I recently6 saved to my Prince playlist - mostly audience vice of Welcome 2 shows - was removed due to copywrite claim by Comerica Bank & Trust.

You should have been downloading these YouTube videos to your hard drive.

I have.

laytonian said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

This letter is dated June 28, 2017.

The Judge has rescinded the UMG deal.

The Court is just now filing these documents that were submitted 2 months ago.

. One letter is dated August 17, 2017. http://www.mncourts.gov/m...r-Seal.pdf . It looks to me that Lonnie attached the June 28 letter with even more redacted. Two versions of it there. .

It doesnt matter.

1Sasha said:

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said:

Without going back to her specific comments, she said something like "when we own it." I thought, who do you think you are - you did nothing to earn this legacy! He was the one who worked 24/7/365 to make something of himself and then to keep innovating and delivering to his fans and the world for nearly four decades. That will be the d--- day when I kiss up to her or anyone like her. I wish he had left everything to a charity or the State of Minnesota and specifically cut them out.

--Well they will own everything eventrully but if the WSJ article was correct the soundtracks are licensed out to WB forever and some albums have the international rights forever licensed to WB. Some albums have different start and end dates. I doubt WB is going to renegotiate the deal so for a while the sibs will to do what Prince wanted so he did put something in the place and I do not think it is a conicidence that the WB has many different terms.

Do all of you fams out there who have posted repeatedly that Prince brilliantly gamed the system in the cagey, unusual way he left his estate REALLY believe that's what he wanted?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Do all of you fams out there who have posted repeatedly that Prince brilliantly gamed the system in the cagey, unusual way he left his estate REALLY believe that's what he wanted?

--Yes, I do he signed the WB contract. He put out a press release about it and sat up an LLC to manage the publishing, licensing and masters. Unless someone put a spell on him I think he did what he wanted I think it was done in the manner it was to keep lawyers and greedy sibs from doing things to line their pockets. You realize that nobody will interesting in buying those master tapes or his publishing if WB has the license especially if the soundtracks are forever. I do not believe in coincidences he set things up like this for a reason.

So, what was it about him and WB, the entity he spent a big part of his fame/success fighting, the very fight that stalled his career? Why go back to WB and cut what you think is the brilliant deal that capped his career? Despite this much-touted 'estate plan' the fact remains that the heirs will have all manner of power and leverage via PP, the 'Nelson Family' name and the marketing/exploitation of memorabilia and his image to cloud and distort his legacy until the end of time. AND, WB will not be inclined to market Prince to the max with the heirs on the scene doing their thing.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

So, what was it about him and WB, the entity he spent a big part of his fame/success fighting, the very fight that stalled his career? Why go back to WB and cut what you think is the brilliant deal that capped his career? Despite this much-touted 'estate plan' the fact remains that the heirs will have all manner of power and leverage via PP, the 'Nelson Family' name and the marketing/exploitation of memorabilia and his image to cloud and distort his legacy until the end of time. AND, WB will not be inclined to market Prince to the max with the heirs on the scene doing their thing.

Because working with them was the only way to get the masters back at one time. It would take millions to market, distribute and remaster his material independly and he had P&D deals with other companies in the past the deal with WB is no different. I also believe there is a limit to what Prince could do with the material he recorded while under contract to WB if this true than he would have had no choice. WB is also not the same company that it was 20 years ago. It was purchased by a private equity group back in 2004 and again in 2012 the company has no connection to WB parents company at all. If Prince did not want his family to have anything at all arrangements could have been made since Prince was the excutor of his Dad's estate who also did not have a will he knew what was going to happen. It does not matter what the Nelson's try to do the one thing they are not going to be able to do is sell the publishing and masters to anyone because the most valuable property cannot licensed out therefore making it difficult to make money. Why do you think UMG walked away? Prince did not do estate planning he did business planning. WB is not going to be stopped from making money and that contact prevents the Nelsons from doing anything with the bulk of the WB material. What they can do is continue to run the business that exsist which Sharon said they will continue to do. They do not have a much of a choice.

A helpful and succinct recap, LR, however it's still called 'show BUSINESS' and a major part of the biz is marketing. There will be no poignant 'lion in winter' interviews, no autobiography, no following the careers of his talented children, no Kennedy Center honors, no PRN Center for Genetic Research or Childrens' Hospital, no trust to fund music education...no career retrospectives of any kind that don't mention (if not lead with) the tragic circumstances of his demise. Because of the dramatic rise in fentenyl overdoses, this will be part of the Prince 'legacy' for decades. As well as stories linking Sharons' exploding career as a jazz singer to the name of her deceased brother (whom she barely knew.) Give me the name of his son on the side of a childrens' hospital any day.

[Edited 8/19/17 9:35am]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

--Prince was not that good at marketing when he was around so his not being is not going to have an effect on the marketing of the remaining material. As long as someone thinks they can make money off the music it will be avaliable. I also think we need to see what happens with investigation before we go dome and gloom. So far I do not see as much as I thought I would in the media about Prince and drugs as I thought I would see a year ago. Not one single person as said he was a dope head not even people who had beef with him. At this point there is plenty of opportunity for a lot of people to make money from the tabs yet we hear nothing but good stuff. [Edited 8/19/17 16:39pm]

could you clarify for me: If the first 18 albums (1978-1996) are still WB products and can thus be more easily monetized, does this mean albums from 1996 through 2015 (I count 17 plus several greatest hits collections) are considered far less valuable?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

The big hits stopped years ago. Even though we might think his music from the early 90s to 2016 was valuable, who knows any of it but the hardcore/longtime fans? When I saw The Revolution last weekend, they sang the songs the world knows, and basically that is what any big company wants the rights to. And WB has them already.

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

could you clarify for me: If the first 18 albums (1978-1996) are still WB products and can thus be more easily monetized, does this mean albums from 1996 through 2015 (I count 17 plus several greatest hits collections) are considered far less valuable?

Yes, I think the major labels are not interested in the later material. UMG walked away for that very reason they belived that they would have access to the WB material and when they found out they did not they wanted out of the deal.

Are we working under the assumption that all vault material created when Prince was under contract to WB is also to be controlled by WB? and does anyone have a guess as to what percentage of the vault was created from 1978-96?

1Sasha said:

The big hits stopped years ago. Even though we might think his music from the early 90s to 2016 was valuable, who knows any of it but the hardcore/longtime fans? When I saw The Revolution last weekend, they sang the songs the world knows, and basically that is what any big company wants the rights to. And WB has them already.

It's easy to lose sight of this when you're in a purple bubble...do you think this is reversable with aggressive marketing or is Prince's 'moment in time' truly over?

I read an article the other day about Elvis Presley. It was the 40th anniversary of his death, and a poll was taken of millenials. The majority of them were not familiar with him or his music, and the article inferred that as the years pass, Elvis will become just a name on a page. To me this is a cautionary tale about Paisley Park and Prince, and I am sure the Graceland management team realizes it, too. I cannot see an insurgence in the fan base simply because Prince is no longer here. No artists are making the trek to PP to record - the big names have their own studios these days - because Prince is no longer here. You don't hear of a covers album being made by the big names in music to benefit a charity in Prince's honor. Maybe the estate could arrange a charity auction of Prince's guitars (not the ones he loved the most), drum kits, and memorabilia to benefit a cause he championed. Eric Clapton even sold Blackie to benefit his rehab center. Someone needs to get a handle on making him part of daily life so that his music lives on.

1Sasha said:

I read an article the other day about Elvis Presley. It was the 40th anniversary of his death, and a poll was taken of millenials. The majority of them were not familiar with him or his music, and the article inferred that as the years pass, Elvis will become just a name on a page. To me this is a cautionary tale about Paisley Park and Prince, and I am sure the Graceland management team realizes it, too. I cannot see an insurgence in the fan base simply because Prince is no longer here. No artists are making the trek to PP to record - the big names have their own studios these days - because Prince is no longer here. You don't hear of a covers album being made by the big names in music to benefit a charity in Prince's honor. Maybe the estate could arrange a charity auction of Prince's guitars (not the ones he loved the most), drum kits, and memorabilia to benefit a cause he championed. Eric Clapton even sold Blackie to benefit his rehab center. Someone needs to get a handle on making him part of daily life so that his music lives on.

THANK YOU for stating this so powerfully. It's killing me that Prince is getting lost in the chaos of the estate, which is just money, buildings, stuff, legal permissions/contracts. I guess Prince and the music are in there somewhere...but how to pry it out?

Bodhitheblackdog said: