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Forums > Prince: Music and More > The Estate Discussion - Part 9 ... Continued
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Reply #30 posted 06/26/17 4:17am

laurarichardso
n

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/25/arts/music/new-disputes-over-princes-estate-cloud-the-future-of-his-vault.html

See article about issues with the estate some of which will come to a resolution this week or another lawsuit. It also mentions copyright issues with artist Prince collaborated with which could become a problem and will have to reserched before any licensing begins.

--

Photo
Prince performing in Los Angeles in 2009. CreditKristian Dowling/Getty Images

Will fans ever get to hear the full depths of Prince’s storied recording vault?

After the musician’s death in April 2016, attention focused on the trove of unreleased material that he kept hidden in two storage vaults at Paisley Park, his studio complex outside Minneapolis. Over the years, it has attained near-mythic status, and his associates have reported that it contained hundreds or even thousands of songs. Yet when Prince died — without a will or a plan for the music’s release — most of the vault was not even cataloged.

On Friday, a small glimpse of this trove emerged with a reissue of “Purple Rain” by Warner Bros. and NPG, Prince’s record company, including a bonus disc of unreleased material.

But a conflict in Prince’s estate over a $31 million deal with Universal for music rights means that much of the vault may not see daylight for months or even years to come. And music industry lawyers say that copyright entanglements may complicate or even prohibit the release of more music; the aborted release of “Deliverance,” an EP that the estate sued to block, may be one example of these problems.

For much of the last year, Prince’s estate has been in what the judge overseeing it, Kevin W. Eide of Carver County District Court in Chaska, Minn., called a state of “personal and corporate mayhem.”

By early this year, things appeared to be stabilizing, with a string of music deals announced with Universal and others. But the estate was thrown into tumult again when Universal said that it wanted to cancel its deal for Prince’s recorded music, which included Prince’s later albums, rights to most of the vault and, critically for Universal, a timetable for obtaining American release rights for some of Prince’s early hits, after the expiration of existing deals with Warner Bros.

Continue reading the main story

Universal said that it had been “misled and likely defrauded” by representatives of Bremer Trust, the Minnesota bank charged with administering the estate, and demanded its money back. According to Universal, it learned after closing the deal that some of the rights it had paid for conflicted with those held by Warner, through a confidential deal that company signed with Prince in 2014.

Judge Eide has allowed Universal’s lawyers to finally view the Warner contract, and the company’s response is expected this week. Whatever happens, music executives say, the episode may harm the estate and complicate efforts to make another deal.

“I don’t think there’s an outcome that is free of cost,” said Lisa Alter, a copyright lawyer who is not involved in the case, “and I don’t think there’s an outcome that is free of some damage to the estate in terms of throwing a cloud over what the rights really are.”

Representatives of Universal and Warner declined to comment. In a statement, a spokeswoman for Bremer declined to respond to specific questions but added that the bank had acted in the best interests of the estate and that “all agreements and entertainment contracts were properly reviewed, authorized and approved by the court.”

The conflicts in the Prince estate have become the music industry’s equivalent of a soap opera. It is extremely rare for a major deal like Universal’s to be canceled, music executives said. And the story has become all the more riveting with allegations of mismanagement and deception on the part of estate representatives, including L. Londell McMillan, a lawyer who once represented Prince and was an adviser to Bremer. (The estate has also been rocked by separate allegations about mismanagement over a tribute concert last October.)

In sealed filings with the court as early as September, the six heirs to the estate — Prince’s siblings and half-siblings — raised concerns about the estate’s pending deals, according to people who have seen the documents but are not authorized to speak about them. Among those concerns was whether Universal’s deal would conflict with the Warner agreement.

“The entertainment agreements negotiated by the advisers are not in the best interests of the estate and for maximizing estate assets,” one filing said, according to a copy reviewed by The New York Times, “but instead ensure an extravagant stream of commission payments to the advisers.”

Photo
Fan tributes to Prince near the main entrance of his Paisley Park compound in Chanhassen, Minn.CreditAckerman + Gruber for The New York Times

In recent filings of his own, Mr. McMillan denied any wrongdoing and said that the Universal contract is valid. Comerica Bank & Trust, which replaced Bremer, has asked the judge to rescind the deal, but would only go so far as to say that it “cannot unequivocally assure” the court that the two contracts do not conflict. Instead, it recommends canceling the deal to avoid litigation.

In a statement, Mr. McMillan said, “I’m fighting to protect Prince’s legacy and the deal that’s in the best interests of the estate.”

For Universal, the most important question is how soon it could get American release rights to Prince’s most popular music. “If Universal’s numbers were wrong as a result of a release date slipping by as much as two or three years that would make the $31 million they paid for it uneconomic for them,” said Larry Miller, the director of the music business program at the Steinhardt School at New York University, “and it’s no surprise they might want to walk away.”

Given how prolific Prince was, and how many musicians he collaborated with, it is likely that many tracks in the vault lack thorough contracts about rights. That may be a source of concern for any company that may want to use that material, particularly in light of the Universal conflict, said Steve Winogradsky, a lawyer who is an expert in licensing music for television and films.

“TV and film companies are going to be a little bit leery about acquiring those rights,” Mr. Winogradsky said, “unless they get very, very good representations from the licensing parties that they have all the rights and will indemnify them.”

If Universal’s deal is canceled, those rights are likely to go back on the market, with other large record companies — including the Warner Music Group, the parent of Warner Bros. — the most likely bidders. The collapse of the Universal deal, and the doubt it cast over the rights, may depress the price and result in more stringent protections, music lawyers said. But with an artist as high-profile as Prince, a deal will get done.

“There is a cloud over this set of rights,” said Mr. Miller of N.Y.U. “But clouds pass.”

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Reply #31 posted 06/26/17 4:50am

rogifan

No new information in that NY Times article. Just a rehash of everything already out there.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #32 posted 06/26/17 4:59am

laurarichardso
n

rogifan said:

No new information in that NY Times article. Just a rehash of everything already out there.

It is a good summary and it does mention the copyright issues that could become a problem if other artist are copyright holders. The estate managers cannot just put out stuff without reserching first.

Already we are seeing some fall out from the Melvoin's pretty much being the only ones allowed to have any input on this PR remaster with Jill Jones saying she was not credited or consulted.

What are they going to do when it is time to do 1999? Leave her off that one when she is all over the record.

[Edited 6/26/17 5:03am]

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Reply #33 posted 06/26/17 5:16am

1Sasha

I read that piece this morning. Maybe he wanted it to be a mess. Who knows?

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Reply #34 posted 06/26/17 5:51am

laurarichardso
n

1Sasha said:

I read that piece this morning. Maybe he wanted it to be a mess. Who knows?

It could be the reason he did not do much with the Vault material. The expenes and time of fixing up the sound. Making sure others who are co-writers get credit and paid. It all sounds very expensive and time consuming. Prince may have been looking for WB to take care of some of this via his deal with them and they were obviously willing to take on the task.

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Reply #35 posted 06/26/17 6:38am

nelcp777

Time will tell.

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Reply #36 posted 06/26/17 8:00am

udo

avatar

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #37 posted 06/26/17 8:21am

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

There is a new claim against the Estate by Suzanne Viveros from Rhode Island.

Suzanne claims she gave P his first recording contract and in exchange P told her he would leave her something from his Estate. Somehow there was "legal tender" by P to Suzanne regarding his statement to her.

This must be true because all 17 year olds are thinking about their Estate. lol lol

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Reply #38 posted 06/26/17 8:25am

1Sasha

I wouldn't mind being rich, but being famous, so that nuts can come out of the woodwork when I'm gone and claim a piece of my estate? No, no thanks.

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Reply #39 posted 06/26/17 8:45am

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

I just read in the court documents that Comerica is charging the Estate a flat rate of $125,000 per month. No wonder they got the gig considering how much in attorney fees Bremer received for their 7-8 months of representation.

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Reply #40 posted 06/26/17 8:54am

1Sasha

$1.5 million per year? That is a steal.

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Reply #41 posted 06/26/17 8:54am

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

I am reading the billing from Rhonda Trotter to the Estate.

She is working on reversing the Italian copyright lawsuit against Prince.

Also, it appears there was some sort of litigation regarding Vanity6 that I have not heard of before.

eek

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Reply #42 posted 06/26/17 8:59am

nelcp777

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I am reading the billing from Rhonda Trotter to the Estate.

She is working on reversing the Italian copyright lawsuit against Prince.

Also, it appears there was some sort of litigation regarding Vanity6 that I have not heard of before.

eek

I found that interesting as well.

Also, what can the UK Probate mean? I was a little confused by that too.

I also noticed that Comerica is looking at various companies to start digitilizing the Vault.

The property in the Turks sounds like it is a pain for the Estate.

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Reply #43 posted 06/26/17 9:33am

laurarichardso
n

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I just read in the court documents that Comerica is charging the Estate a flat rate of $125,000 per month. No wonder they got the gig considering how much in attorney fees Bremer received for their 7-8 months of representation.

Seems fair and lot of bills were run up by Breamer and look what the estate has to show for it.

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Reply #44 posted 06/26/17 9:36am

laurarichardso
n

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I am reading the billing from Rhonda Trotter to the Estate.

She is working on reversing the Italian copyright lawsuit against Prince.

Also, it appears there was some sort of litigation regarding Vanity6 that I have not heard of before.

eek

Interesting I wonder if someone is using the name and recording songs. I know from the inventory sheet he owned the copyright to the name. I actually stumbled across some foreign group who re-recorded a note for note copy of "A Love Bizzare" a lot of times this happens in other countries with actuall albums being sold and the music even being used in T.V, commercials and karoke bars with nt payment to the copyright holder.

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Reply #45 posted 06/26/17 9:52am

nelcp777

I am also curious about the FedEx and Let's Go Crazy reels that are referenced in the billing description.

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Reply #46 posted 06/26/17 10:08am

laurarichardso
n

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I am reading the billing from Rhonda Trotter to the Estate.

She is working on reversing the Italian copyright lawsuit against Prince.

Also, it appears there was some sort of litigation regarding Vanity6 that I have not heard of before.

eek

Did you notice Pheadra is still in the mix?

Gift Tax issue being distputed. Makes me wonder if this has to do with L4OA and the fact that we saw some recepients of funds were businesses and people not non-profits.

I see Trevor Guy and Kirk are getting contracts.

Good to see they are actually going after people committing copyright infringement.

[Edited 6/27/17 4:27am]

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Reply #47 posted 06/27/17 1:45am

Laydown

1Sasha said:

I read that piece this morning. Maybe he wanted it to be a mess. Who knows?

One thing is for certain,P didnt care much what happened after he was gone.

.................................................................................

'I know I shouldnt put my faith in heroes,but I cant c u any other way' RIP P

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Reply #48 posted 06/27/17 4:28am

Lovejunky

Laydown said:

1Sasha said:

I read that piece this morning. Maybe he wanted it to be a mess. Who knows?

One thing is for certain,P didnt care much what happened after he was gone.

.................................................................................

and why would he be bothered....?

he KNEW that his Music is Stellar...Unique uncomparable, classic and well constructed.

His life was Art in Motion....World is going to hear about him and his music for always

He knew his own value and it had nothing to do with Money

As time goes by Im kind of impressed with just how Detached he was to what he accumulated while he was here...

He surely understood that old "Cant take it with you thing"

For a long time he was Misunderstood and dissed..and somehow I get the feeling this whole mess might be the Ultimate FU

At least...It makes me Happy to think that...smile

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Reply #49 posted 06/27/17 6:29am

udo

avatar

Lovejunky said:

this whole mess might be the Ultimate FU

.

Compared to the energy and dedication that went into the music it borders on laziness.

.

.

.

.

.

[Edited 6/27/17 6:30am]

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #50 posted 06/27/17 10:50am

PurpleDiamonds
1

laurarichardson said:



ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:


I am reading the billing from Rhonda Trotter to the Estate.


She is working on reversing the Italian copyright lawsuit against Prince.


Also, it appears there was some sort of litigation regarding Vanity6 that I have not heard of before.


eek




Did you notice Pheadra is still in the mix?



Gift Tax issue being distputed. Makes me wonder if this has to do with L4OA and the fact that we saw some recepients of funds were businesses and people not non-profits.



I see Trevor Guy and Kirk are getting contracts.



Good to see they are actually going after people committing copyright infringement.

[Edited 6/27/17 4:27am]



Interesting to see who's names still pop up...so was Phaedra involved with the disputed gift tax as the recipient? Or something else?
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Reply #51 posted 06/27/17 12:17pm

1Sasha

Good letter today regarding UMG and the recission. Apparently, they are all in agreement that the deal with Warner Bros. is also a mess. Someone posted either here or on FB that WB should just buy the whole catalogue and be done with it.

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Reply #52 posted 06/27/17 12:20pm

morningsong

I seem to remember that TO (before they became TOA) had objections to the "advisors" but Bremers basically brushed those aside in order to move ahead with closing the Estate?

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Reply #53 posted 06/27/17 12:35pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

UMG is stating that after reviewing the 2014 agreement between Prince and Warner Bros it is indeed ambiguous, and only bolsters their reasons to rescind the contract.

UMG is stating the Estate's conduct was fraudulent because they knew there was a conflict in the agreement and knowingly failed to disclose it to UMG and knowingly misled UMG.

SMFH.

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Reply #54 posted 06/27/17 12:43pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

[Snip - luv4u]

The world's problems like climate change can only be solved through strategic long-term thinking, not expediency. In other words all the govts. need sacking!

If you can add value to someone's life then why not. Especially if it colors their days...
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Reply #55 posted 06/27/17 1:18pm

rogifan

What a friggin’ mess. I have a feeling non WB music will never see the light of day outside of what’s currently on Tidal. But who knows how long it will be there. Good grief.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #56 posted 06/27/17 6:29pm

laurarichardso
n

1Sasha said:

Good letter today regarding UMG and the recission. Apparently, they are all in agreement that the deal with Warner Bros. is also a mess. Someone posted either here or on FB that WB should just buy the whole catalogue and be done with it.




Well WB was in the room when the deal was signed so they must have been happy at the time. I belived the deal was structed to eventrully have WB license everything and to keep anyone else from being involved. I think Prince knew vultures were coming to pick his bones and even if he had a will whoever inherited would go against his wishes to get a quick buck. Well that will not be so easy now.

Remember he had beef with UMG so he is getting what he wanted.
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Reply #57 posted 06/28/17 3:35am

Laydown

laurarichardson said:

1Sasha said:

Good letter today regarding UMG and the recission. Apparently, they are all in agreement that the deal with Warner Bros. is also a mess. Someone posted either here or on FB that WB should just buy the whole catalogue and be done with it.

Well WB was in the room when the deal was signed so they must have been happy at the time. I belived the deal was structed to eventrully have WB license everything and to keep anyone else from being involved. I think Prince knew vultures were coming to pick his bones and even if he had a will whoever inherited would go against his wishes to get a quick buck. Well that will not be so easy now. Remember he had beef with UMG so he is getting what he wanted.

The thing about the vault being sold to UMG tells me WB didnt want it or they wouldve made a deal with the estate. Now that UMG dont want it,who will? The last thing I want is some entity like Tidal getting their hands on it,but it seems like it is going that way.

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Reply #58 posted 06/28/17 4:15am

1Sasha

At this point, my opinion is let WB have the whole thing - his whole career - house it all under one roof. I am not looking at the financial part of this - I think there has to be some type of agreement with one entity in order to settle the estate and move forward.

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Reply #59 posted 06/28/17 4:31am

rogifan

Laydown said:



laurarichardson said:


1Sasha said:

Good letter today regarding UMG and the recission. Apparently, they are all in agreement that the deal with Warner Bros. is also a mess. Someone posted either here or on FB that WB should just buy the whole catalogue and be done with it.



Well WB was in the room when the deal was signed so they must have been happy at the time. I belived the deal was structed to eventrully have WB license everything and to keep anyone else from being involved. I think Prince knew vultures were coming to pick his bones and even if he had a will whoever inherited would go against his wishes to get a quick buck. Well that will not be so easy now. Remember he had beef with UMG so he is getting what he wanted.

The thing about the vault being sold to UMG tells me WB didnt want it or they wouldve made a deal with the estate. Now that UMG dont want it,who will? The last thing I want is some entity like Tidal getting their hands on it,but it seems like it is going that way.


Tidal getting it would be the worst. Anybody but Tidal.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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