rebelenterprise said:

(...)They didn't understand what the chorus meant... But I do remember them liking "Hot Wit U" with Eve on it...so as far as the so-called "urban" market is concerned, that track probably would've been the biggest hit if released with a video directed by Hype Williams or somebody like that. Just my IMO.

.

- Yes. To have a big hit in this era, sometimes a good song is not enough. Great videos help, cool image, airplay etc. Then, one thing leads to another. I think Musicology promo was a lot better, including the videos (Musicology and Cinnamon Girl, some of Prince´s best)

Regardless of its commercial performance or what it meant to P's career at that particular time, 'Rave' is quite easily one of his best albums of the '90s.

.

Cries of "OMG it's his WORST album EVAAAAA!" are categorically incorrect.

.

Though flawed due to the presence of numerous filler/substandard tracks, 'Rave' is peppered with absolutely brilliant, fully realized, top-shelf material.

.

And no, the 'Rave In2' variant does not improve upon the original album.

.

Any album with "Man o' War," "Tangerine," "I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore," the title track, and "The SUn, the Moon and Stars" simply cannot be his "worst" or a total failure as an album.

.

The album cover is arguably the worst thing about the album.

For me, the problem with it are not the songs, but the production. I was very bored with Kirky J production (and very happy when I heard The Rainbow Children). Everything sounded flat and predictable.

I have no problem with Prince being a ´trend follower´. I know several fans dislike Diamonds and Pearls because of that and I loved it. But then he had a big band, everything was fresh. He was excited.

[Edited 7/5/17 9:30am]

That entire late 90s/early 00s was a weird time to be a Prince fan.

We went from getting some scattered releases like The War and Newpower Soul, WB put out The Vault: OF4S which I believe was the end of that contract, Arista put out the Rave album, NPGMC started with internet-only tracks (and another Rave disc) to finally a jazz era of Xpectation/CNOTE/ONA/NEWS/TRC. He was all over the place.

I think what came immediatley after Rave Un2 flopped more, honestly. I like Rave.

CAL3 said:

Regardless of its commercial performance or what it meant to P's career at that particular time, 'Rave' is quite easily one of his best albums of the '90s.

.

Cries of "OMG it's his WORST album EVAAAAA!" are categorically incorrect.

.

Though flawed due to the presence of numerous filler/substandard tracks, 'Rave' is peppered with absolutely brilliant, fully realized, top-shelf material.

.

And no, the 'Rave In2' variant does not improve upon the original album.

.

Any album with "Man o' War," "Tangerine," "I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore," the title track, and "The SUn, the Moon and Stars" simply cannot be his "worst" or a total failure as an album.

.

The album cover is arguably the worst thing about the album.

Agreed.

I think it was just too obviously meant to copy the formula of "Supernatural", but that album had the guest stars in the foreground. Rave pushed them in the back.

CAL3 said:

The album cover is arguably the worst thing about the album.

- I have to agree. Love Prince and I love white backgrounds, but, for non fans, it´s uncool, when we are talking about that era.

that "Supernatural" format was first done in 1984 by BERLIN

luvsexy4all said:

that "Supernatural" format was first done in 1984 by BERLIN

No one sold it to Prince by saying "Hey Symbol guy, let's sell your new album by copying an album from 15 years ago that sold like a billion less copies than your own album from that year.". Rave was following the Supernatural formula.

I liked it better than the plastic music being release on l41a and npgmc.com

To me, Rave was D&P, minus the excessive hip hop elements. I'm stunned So Far So Pleased wasn't the lead single. It's not the greatest song, but for that specific year, it was the right single for releasee.

Prince's pouty and VERY embarassing apperance on TRL MTV sealed the deal for its commercial failure. A true lowpoint in Prince's career.

But, Rave Un2 in my opinion is an underrated album. TGRES, Pretty Man, Man'o'War, The Sun Moon & Stars, an I Love U but I don't Trust U anymore....those songs alone make the album at least a decent effort.


I'm in the minority of course.

And, I think it's stronger than the Rave In2 release.

GustavoRibas said:

CAL3 said:

The album cover is arguably the worst thing about the album.

- I have to agree. Love Prince and I love white backgrounds, but, for non fans, it´s uncool, when we are talking about that era.

It's like he heard Eiffel 65's "I'm Blue" and went with it.

jaawwnn said:

luvsexy4all said:

that "Supernatural" format was first done in 1984 by BERLIN

No one sold it to Prince by saying "Hey Symbol guy, let's sell your new album by copying an album from 15 years ago that sold like a billion less copies than your own album from that year.". Rave was following the Supernatural formula.

i dont get your comment....i was saying prince was well aware of Berlin's album also ..not just supernatural

luvsexy4all said:

i dont get your comment....i was saying prince was well aware of Berlin's album also ..not just supernatural

Ok, but we all know it was because of Santana. Prince saw ´Supernatural´ and probably thought ´If Santana can, I can too´. Choosing Clive Davis was no coincidence.

7thday said:

I enjoyed the album. And reading what Mayte had to say about it, especially the line "I love you but I don't trust you anymore" made me appreciate what a bold writer Prince was. That song really stood out for me.

He must have really liked that song, he sang it many times on the "Piano & Microphone" tour in Australia last year.

As for the album, I always thought it was OK... not one of his best.

I can recall buying it on the first day of its release: The guy at the counter was screwing his face up all replused and what not. What an idiot.

imago said:

I liked it better than the plastic music being release on l41a and npgmc.com

To me, Rave was D&P, minus the excessive hip hop elements. I'm stunned So Far So Pleased wasn't the lead single. It's not the greatest song, but for that specific year, it was the right single for releasee.

Prince's pouty and VERY embarassing apperance on TRL MTV sealed the deal for its commercial failure. A true lowpoint in Prince's career.

But, Rave Un2 in my opinion is an underrated album. TGRES, Pretty Man, Man'o'War, The Sun Moon & Stars, an I Love U but I don't Trust U anymore....those songs alone make the album at least a decent effort.


I'm in the minority of course.

And, I think it's stronger than the Rave In2 release.

I like the song but it hasn't got a particularly catchy chorus.

It wasn't released as a single because Stefani's record company wouldn't allow it. P posted something about that on his website.

In the end of the 90s, besides Santana, we had two big ´comebacks´: Cher´s "Believe" and Whitney Houston´s "It's Not Right but It's Okay". And Madonna was still ´relevant´ releasing ´Ray of Light´ (one of my faves from her).

.

It must have inspired Prince to fight for a piece of the pie.

jdcxc said:

I Love u But I Don't Trust U Anymore is pure brilliance. The album is uneven but to dismiss it as a whole is lazy.

^ This is a very good surmise on the attitudes towards the album.

[Edited 7/9/17 22:29pm]

leecaldon said:

imago said:

I liked it better than the plastic music being release on l41a and npgmc.com

To me, Rave was D&P, minus the excessive hip hop elements. I'm stunned So Far So Pleased wasn't the lead single. It's not the greatest song, but for that specific year, it was the right single for releasee.

Prince's pouty and VERY embarassing apperance on TRL MTV sealed the deal for its commercial failure. A true lowpoint in Prince's career.

But, Rave Un2 in my opinion is an underrated album. TGRES, Pretty Man, Man'o'War, The Sun Moon & Stars, an I Love U but I don't Trust U anymore....those songs alone make the album at least a decent effort.


I'm in the minority of course.

And, I think it's stronger than the Rave In2 release.

I like the song but it hasn't got a particularly catchy chorus.

It wasn't released as a single because Stefani's record company wouldn't allow it. P posted something about that on his website.

Thanks for the information. I thought it was because of that first, but then, what was the point chosing a performer thant can't be allowed to release a single ?

.

Moreover at the time of the release of RAVEUN2, No Doubt hadn't a single on airplay. Their single New was released in may 99, and the next single, Ex girlfriend was released in may 2000. So, that gap of one year should have allowed Prince to release So far So Please in october 1999.

.

I suspect Prince wanted TGRES as the lead single (not very smart) because he is solo, and So far So Please/Hot Wit U as the second.

Baby Knows was released exclusively in Netherland, because this market was always receptive to Prince.

This album is significant to my life in that it was the very first CD of Prince's I ever bought.

For the six years prior to this CD all of my exposure to Prince was through mix tapes made for me and signing out his CDs constantly from the library (The Library had everything though, even rarer stuff like Crystal Ball).

When I bought it and to this day, I feel it is a solid, if somewhat forgettable album.

However many of the tracks on Rave In2 I found to be much better, and I think Beautiful Strange is criminally under appreciated.

I think mixing the highlights from both albums into one album would have been a definite 8 or 9/10 album for me.

This is not totally dissimilar to how I felt about Emancipation. If the three CDs from that were distilled into one CD it would have probably been a masterpiece. Instead a lot of it now sounds dull and dated to my ears. But then I would probably bitch about all the unreleased songs I never got to hear, so damned if eye do, damned if eye don't.

I finally forgave Chuck D. for Un...

RODSERLING said:

leecaldon said:

I like the song but it hasn't got a particularly catchy chorus.

It wasn't released as a single because Stefani's record company wouldn't allow it. P posted something about that on his website.

Thanks for the information. I thought it was because of that first, but then, what was the point chosing a performer thant can't be allowed to release a single ?

.

Moreover at the time of the release of RAVEUN2, No Doubt hadn't a single on airplay. Their single New was released in may 99, and the next single, Ex girlfriend was released in may 2000. So, that gap of one year should have allowed Prince to release So far So Please in october 1999.

.

I suspect Prince wanted TGRES as the lead single (not very smart) because he is solo, and So far So Please/Hot Wit U as the second.

Baby Knows was released exclusively in Netherland, because this market was always receptive to Prince.

Took a little while to find this

http://www.ndifc.net/update/2000/mar00.htm

I am glad that Prince seemed to give up trying so hard to have hits after the 2000s and had such a great ´comeback´ with a solid album like Musicology.
Also glad that he lived to see himself recognized as a music icon.

GustavoRibas said:

rebelenterprise said:

(...)They didn't understand what the chorus meant... But I do remember them liking "Hot Wit U" with Eve on it...so as far as the so-called "urban" market is concerned, that track probably would've been the biggest hit if released with a video directed by Hype Williams or somebody like that. Just my IMO.

.

- Yes. To have a big hit in this era, sometimes a good song is not enough. Great videos help, cool image, airplay etc. Then, one thing leads to another. I think Musicology promo was a lot better, including the videos (Musicology and Cinnamon Girl, some of Prince´s best)

The greatest romance is a great song but not enough to push the album (it has some good moments like Rave, Strange but true and Pretty man, but in general is weak). Musicology tough is a killer hit, I guess it would push any album.

leecaldon said:

RODSERLING said:

Thanks for the information. I thought it was because of that first, but then, what was the point chosing a performer thant can't be allowed to release a single ?

.

Moreover at the time of the release of RAVEUN2, No Doubt hadn't a single on airplay. Their single New was released in may 99, and the next single, Ex girlfriend was released in may 2000. So, that gap of one year should have allowed Prince to release So far So Please in october 1999.

.

I suspect Prince wanted TGRES as the lead single (not very smart) because he is solo, and So far So Please/Hot Wit U as the second.

Baby Knows was released exclusively in Netherland, because this market was always receptive to Prince.

Took a little while to find this

http://www.ndifc.net/update/2000/mar00.htm

March 21st, 2000 from MTV (www.mtv.com)

Prince release featuring Gwen Stefani Prince is attempting to release "So Far, So Pleased," with co-lead vocals from No Doubt's Gwen Stefani, as the next single from "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic," but needs permission from No Doubt and Interscope Records before he can do so. In a message posted on his new official Web site, located at www.NPGonlineLTD.com, Prince says that he is hoping to shoot a video for "So Far, So Pleased," and has reached out to Stefani and No Doubt's management, but has yet to hear word back. No Doubt may be waiting until after the release of its new album, "Return Of Saturn," on April 11 so that the "So Far, So Pleased" single will not be in direct competition with No Doubt's current single, "Ex-Girlfriend." -- David Basham

Thank you.

So, I got it right. It was never question for Prince/Arista to release So Far So Pleased as the lead single. How couldn't they know it will conflict with No Doubt next album ? Very bad marketing because of Prince ego wanting a solo song as the first single.

RODSERLING said:

leecaldon said:

Took a little while to find this

http://www.ndifc.net/update/2000/mar00.htm

March 21st, 2000 from MTV (www.mtv.com)

Prince release featuring Gwen Stefani Prince is attempting to release "So Far, So Pleased," with co-lead vocals from No Doubt's Gwen Stefani, as the next single from "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic," but needs permission from No Doubt and Interscope Records before he can do so. In a message posted on his new official Web site, located at www.NPGonlineLTD.com, Prince says that he is hoping to shoot a video for "So Far, So Pleased," and has reached out to Stefani and No Doubt's management, but has yet to hear word back. No Doubt may be waiting until after the release of its new album, "Return Of Saturn," on April 11 so that the "So Far, So Pleased" single will not be in direct competition with No Doubt's current single, "Ex-Girlfriend." -- David Basham

Thank you.

So, I got it right. It was never question for Prince/Arista to release So Far So Pleased as the lead single. How couldn't they know it will conflict with No Doubt next album ? Very bad marketing because of Prince ego wanting a solo song as the first single.

I'm far from convinced it would have been much of a hit though.

I haven't listened to the whole album, just several of the songs. I thought he was a total weirdo because he changed his name to a symbol and had SLAVE on his face. I was too young to understand the whole conflict.

.

I remember seeing the display for Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic at my local music store in Seattle (Easy Street Records). The blue pleather suit and braids reinforced the schema I had of Prince---weirdo! I never heard any new music from Prince/ on the radio, and none of my friends or classmates were listening to him, so he wasn’t relevant to me. His look in the Rave era did not help him at all. If he had marketed himself the right way, he might have been able to connect with the younger generation and the public at large.

.

He and Madonna are the same age. Madonna was still relevant in the late 1990s with the Ray of Light album. didn’t market himself the right way in order to appeal to the general public in the mid-to-late 1990s

[Edited 7/20/17 8:19am]

GustavoRibas said:

I am glad that Prince seemed to give up trying so hard to have hits after the 2000s and had such a great ´comeback´ with a solid album like Musicology.
Also glad that he lived to see himself recognized as a music icon.

I believe that the Super Bowl halftime performance was really important in cementing his status as an icon. I don't remember the RRHOF induction first hand, but that was important as well. He had some great appearances and/or performances at award shows. I remember the Grammy's from 2015: Standing ovation. His stance around artistic freedom seemed sensible, especially in the 2000s with the proliferation of Napster and file-sharing programs like it. He earned a couple of Grammy awards, so people knew that he was still making good music, even if his music wasn't on the radio. His commercial success was very modest after 1995, and at times he struggled to stay relevant, but he certainly had people's respect and recognition.

I think the whole period was a low point for Prince. He had just had a very turbulent decade and I feel he had lost direction. Chasing hits was not something he had ever really had to do. They just came naturally. Partly because he was on fire creatively right up until TGE imo, but also because WB backed him by and large until the cracks started showing. Whatever the reasons, Rave seemed to be the hangover of a troubled decade and Prince didn't seem sure of what he wanted to be or do for the first time in his career. I also think he was still angry with WB and was trying to prove the point he could do it without them and produce hit after hit. An aproach to making music that he was never accustomed to and wasn't very good at.

Fortunately he said "fuck it" and decided chasing hits just wasn't his thing and he came up with TRC. Whether you liked his jazz fusion period or not, at least he was creating art again and not just chewing bubblegum, sticking it on the wall and calling it art which is what I feel Emancipation, NPS and Rave were - bubble gum art.

206Michelle said:

I haven't listened to the whole album, just several of the songs. I thought he was a total weirdo because he changed his name to a symbol and had SLAVE on his face. I was too young to understand the whole conflict.

.

I remember seeing the display for Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic at my local music store in Seattle (Easy Street Records). The blue pleather suit and braids reinforced the schema I had of Prince---weirdo! I never heard any new music from Prince/ on the radio, and none of my friends or classmates were listening to him, so he wasn’t relevant to me. His look in the Rave era did not help him at all. If he had marketed himself the right way, he might have been able to connect with the younger generation and the public at large.

.

He and Madonna are the same age. Madonna was still relevant in the late 1990s with the Ray of Light album. didn’t market himself the right way in order to appeal to the general public in the mid-to-late 1990s

I think he looked pretty good:

I always the freaky shit he came up with no matter what it was. Dude looked different every time you saw him and had no fucking fear.

MD431Madcat said: