TrivialPursuit said:

these pretzels..they make me thirsty

bonatoc said:

Above all, sound is where Prince was the most audacious. What good are these countless days and hours if in the end, you're satisfied with some shitty 128ko mp3?
Go listen to ABBA or somethin'.

In my mind, you are conflating how sound is recorded and what a genius like P can do with sound. He was into creating and arranging sounds that were sometimes unique to him, in my opinion, but in regards to how sounds are recorded? Not really, especially during his unfuckwithable 80s. I'm sure you've read this, but here is that very point being made by Susan Rogers on daddyrockstar:

People have assumed that because these records were successful that we took the same degree and care with the technique as we did with the art and that’s completely false. I mean, technically, sonically these records aren’t great. Many, many, many others in which care was actually put into the technique and the craft sound better. Our records sounded alright, their form served the function, but what was great about it and what people were buying was not the sonic qualities. People were buying the art, the musical attributes. In that sense, Prince didn’t care

maceoparker007 said:

laurarichardson said:

maceoparker007 said: --No one is saying it is not important but Prince is not around and therefore we do not have anyone else around who would put their foot in WB's ass. The days of doing things the right way are over.

Bernie Grundman is responsible for this remaster and he knows a thing of two about good quality mastering. WB are likely to just follow his lead so I am sure the quality will be just fine.

Well people are complaining for some reason. I will reserve any judgement until I receive mind and even them I know the days of an individual person treating this music like precious children is over.

One person cared and he is not around anymore.

TrivialPursuit said:

What Prince fans are really getting vs what they want

they nuked it but Disc 2 makes it worth the price

TrivialPursuit said:

What Prince fans are really getting vs what they want

PliablyPurple said:

bonatoc said:

Above all, sound is where Prince was the most audacious. What good are these countless days and hours if in the end, you're satisfied with some shitty 128ko mp3?
Go listen to ABBA or somethin'.

In my mind, you are conflating how sound is recorded and what a genius like P can do with sound. He was into creating and arranging sounds that were sometimes unique to him, in my opinion, but in regards to how sounds are recorded? Not really, especially during his unfuckwithable 80s. I'm sure you've read this, but here is that very point being made by Susan Rogers on daddyrockstar:

People have assumed that because these records were successful that we took the same degree and care with the technique as we did with the art and that’s completely false. I mean, technically, sonically these records aren’t great. Many, many, many others in which care was actually put into the technique and the craft sound better. Our records sounded alright, their form served the function, but what was great about it and what people were buying was not the sonic qualities. People were buying the art, the musical attributes. In that sense, Prince didn’t care

So Susan is saying they never went by the book, what is new?
There's an eternal finesse in Parade, and it doesn't rest entirely on Clare Fischer.
It's an album that took 3 Davids to engineer, and Peggy, and Susan, and Coke.

You could throw at me all the Bruce Swediens in the world, I have yet to hear something as aurally incredible as the ad lib of "Hello", or all of "Sign O' The Times" the song. Just the snare reverb is to die for. This isn't uncalculated. The decay and the EQ on that reverb is laser surgery.
It's just half way between organic and pristine. You want pristine? The quality of Madhouse's 8 just screams.

I love Susan, but she can go soak her head: "Man In The Mirror" may be great, but if Quincy wasn't there to make it sound less clinical... "Bad" is ageing rapidly. Whereas the perfectly opaque, dense, futuristic sound of "Something In The Water" is here to stay. Prince's work in the studio is in great part what makes him a poor material for covers. You can at best replicate the sound (if you're really a master), or mimick it, which is basically what the industry does since the nineties.

I mean what a bunch of crap. If we go this way, the first Police albums sound like pure crap, Bob Marley sounds like garbage, and early James Brown is inaudible. "Rubber Soul" makes the ears puke. These artists, they fucking couldn't care less about the technique, if what they heard had musicality. A special vibration.

You just don't get it. The day Susan brought the SSL G series in PP, Prince started to sound like shit. Who gets an aural orgasm from "God Is Alive"? Where's the warmth? And most of all, where's the danger? That's bad sounding, my friend. Sonic ideas abound, but they get photoshopped by someone who just got his Mac for christmas. You get the intent, but something isn't right.

"Not the sonic qualities"... Ha! Prince didn't care because he knew he had the best sound in town, that's all. Trust me, you can tell a lot about someone from the Hi-Fi, walkman or headphones they grew up with. Some just got accustomed to hear music through shitless, tiny circuits. Others discovered PR on vinyl, through a valve amp and a pair of 70's JBL, when it was just a small confidential californian company. Real hand-crafted wood and woofers, I know what pristine is. And so does Prince.

It's like people raving about "The Köln Concert". Little do they know how "poorly" it was recorded. But the curve response of the Telefunken sublimed what was played, for ever. The color is unique. Not only it "serves the function", it's inextricably tied to the song, as are the lyrics and the interpreetation; Susan is just frustrated because all of this went in a flash, she never slept for years, and never got the chance to make a Prince record on her own terms. And she ended up castrating him with this fucking SSL G+ Series, the console that went everywhere, which made everyone around the world sound the same. Yuck.
Long live Sunset Sound and its custom, hand-made circuits.

Careful with those interviews, Susan. You start to sound more and more like a button pusher to me. My admiration for you is decaying. Let me quote you: "I couldn't do it any more. I just couldn't.". Who can blame you? Yet he didn't stop, and kept on burning out engineer after engineer, year after year, until loneliness somehow brought all these incapables in Paisley. You can't process something organic with a clinical approach. Damn all the yes men and women, so many years of talent (almost) wasted. Fuck Carmen, fuck Kirk, fuck Larry, all these bozos that came and went. It's really sad. Here's a guy who could have done a whole experimental album with Kate Bush, or Thom Yorke, or Cat Power, or Kendrick Lamar. And instead, he listened to any schmuck who got lucky enough to get close to him. Thank God for his passion for playing live, it's the only thing that prevented from a complete drowning.

It's just that Prince's talent is unbearable to some. He brought engineers in only because he could work faster. But he was perfectly capable of doing it himself. Dare to tell me that ATWIAD and Parade are not sonically astounding, and I'll tell you this: you discovered those albums when you were already old. Moreover, you didn't listen to them carefully enough. They're amongst the best recordings ever.

You're probably the type that grind teeth when you hear SISIA's wooden stool pissing his cracks into the mike. But that's precisely what makes it the perfect, ultimate pristine/organic recording.
Magnetic tapes bent to Prince's natural electricity, when all others were just doing their show-business part. With honesty and a good spirit, but without real passion, without the so-called "artistry". Music is fucking hard. Prince was so aware of that, that he worked his ass off to not only equal what he heard and admired (the first two albums), but to come with his own colors. In a music world where everything has been already said and done, that's staggering.

In the end, Michael is a clown, the circus freak his father wanted him to be. Five years playing the primadonna (or choo-choo in his own private kindergarten) between each album. Thank God for the voice, but the rest... He stayed a victim all his life. A fucking show-biz slave. Far from the King he claimed to be (good gospel singers can match Michael expressiveness).
Prince killed his father, in the best œdipian sense. Thank God John played Jazz.
Jazz is what "A Place In Heaven", "Witness 4 The Prosecution" and "All My Dreams" sound like.
And then Prince killed show-biz. Thank God he was from the street.
Michael was a product of America. Like Tab®, or Dunkin' Donuts®. Unique, but just for a while. Prince embodied the real American Dream.
But all the shiny sounds on "Dangerous" will try to seduce you into thinking otherwise.
In the end, it depends on how large your knowledge of what came before them both. It's about culture. Michael is great, but all the constructed alien aura is cracking, and we begin to realize that he became a lazy punk. If only "Thriller" didn't happen to him. But so goes the world.

If you want to hear some 3 seconds long Lexicon reverb tails, there's plenty of that, everywhere, and particularly in Swedien's work. But music isn't staring at fireworks for ever. Only children and retarded can. The sane man, at some point, looks for a candle burning, a forest fire, a glow in the dark, marvels yet unheard.

Only Prince sounds like Prince. And his records are way more sonically perfect than you think they are. You just don't have the proper equipment. If it is your eardrums, your speakers or your headphones that fail you, I can't tell. Could be your heart, but God forbid.

[Edited 6/21/17 20:47pm]

bonatoc said:

PliablyPurple said:

So Susan is saying they never went by the book, what is new?
There's an eternal finesse in Parade, and it doesn't rest entirely on Clare Fischer.
It's an album that took 3 Davids to engineer, and Peggy, and Susan, and Coke.

You could throw at me all the Bruce Swediens in the world, I have yet to hear something as aurally incredible as the ad lib of "Hello", or all of "Sign O' The Times" the song. Just the snare reverb is to die for. This isn't uncalculated. The decay and the EQ on that reverb is laser surgery.
It's just half way between organic and pristine. You want pristine? The quality of Madhouse's 8 just screams.

I love Susan, but she can go soak her head: "Man In The Mirror" may be great, but if Quincy wasn't there to make it sound less clinical... "Bad" is ageing rapidly. Whereas the perfectly opaque, dense, futuristic sound of "Something In The Water" is here to stay. Prince's work in the studio is in great part what makes him a poor material for covers. You can at best replicate the sound (if you're really a master), or mimick it, which is basically what the industry does since the nineties.

I mean what a bunch of crap. If we go this way, the first Police albums sound like pure crap, Bob Marley sounds like garbage, and early James Brown is inaudible. "Rubber Soul" makes the ears puke. These artists, they fucking couldn't care less about the technique, if what they heard had musicality. A special vibration.

You just don't get it. The day Susan brought the SSL G series in PP, Prince started to sound like shit. Who gets an aural orgasm from "God Is Alive"? Where's the warmth? And most of all, where's the danger? That's bad sounding, my friend. Sonic ideas abound, but they get photoshopped by someone who just got his Mac for christmas. You get the intent, but something isn't right.

"Not the sonic qualities"... Ha! Prince didn't care because he knew he had the best sound in town, that's all. Trust me, you can tell a lot about someone from the Hi-Fi, walkman or headphones they grew up with. Some just got accustomed to hear music through shitless, tiny circuits. Others discovered PR on vinyl, through a valve amp and a pair of 70's JBL, when it was just a small confidential californian company. Real hand-crafted wood and woofers, I know what pristine is. And so does Prince.

It's like people raving about "The Köln Concert". Little do they know how "poorly" it was recorded. But the curve response of the Telefunken sublimed what was played, for ever. The color is unique. Not only it "serves the function", it's inextricably tied to the song, as are the lyrics and the interpreetation; Susan is just frustrated because all of this went in a flash, she never slept for years, and never got the chance to make a Prince record on her own terms. And she ended up castrating him with this fucking SSL G+ Series, the console that went everywhere, which made everyone around the world sound the same. Yuck.
Long live Sunset Sound and its custom, hand-made circuits.

Careful with those interviews, Susan. You start to sound more and more like a button pusher to me. My admiration for you is decaying. Let me quote you: "I couldn't do it any more. I just couldn't.". Who can blame you? Yet he didn't stop, and kept on burning out engineer after engineer, year after year, until loneliness somehow brought all these incapables in Paisley. You can't process something organic with a clinical approach. Damn all the yes men and women, so many years of talent (almost) wasted. Fuck Carmen, fuck Kirk, fuck Larry, all these bozos that came and went. It's really sad. Here's a guy who could have done a whole experimental album with Kate Bush, or Thom Yorke, or Cat Power, or Kendrick Lamar. And instead, he listened to any schmuck who got lucky enough to get close to him. Thank God for his passion for playing live, it's the only thing that prevented from a complete drowning.

It's just that Prince's talent is unbearable to some. He brought engineers in only because he could work faster. But he was perfectly capable of doing it himself. Dare to tell me that ATWIAD and Parade are not sonically astounding, and I'll tell you this: you discovered those albums when you were already old. Moreover, you didn't listen to them carefully enough. They're amongst the best recordings ever.

You're probably the type that grind teeth when you hear SISIA's wooden stool pissing his cracks into the mike. But that's precisely what makes it the perfect, ultimate pristine/organic recording.
Magnetic tapes bent to Prince's natural electricity, when all others were just doing their show-business part. With honesty and a good spirit, but without real passion, without the so-called "artistry". Music is fucking hard. Prince was so aware of that, that he worked his ass off to not only equal what he heard and admired (the first two albums), but to come with his own colors. In a music world where everything has been already said and done, that's staggering.

In the end, Michael is a clown, the circus freak his father wanted him to be. Five years playing the primadonna (or choo-choo in his own private kindergarten) between each album. Thank God for the voice, but the rest... He stayed a victim all his life. A fucking show-biz slave. Far from the King he claimed to be (good gospel singers can match Michael expressiveness).
Prince killed his father, in the best œdipian sense. Thank God John played Jazz.
Jazz is what "A Place In Heaven", "Witness 4 The Prosecution" and "All My Dreams" sound like.
And then Prince killed show-biz. Thank God he was from the street.
Michael was a product of America. Like Tab®, or Dunkin' Donuts®. Unique, but just for a while. Prince embodied the real American Dream.
But all the shiny sounds on "Dangerous" will try to seduce you into thinking otherwise.
In the end, it depends on how large your knowledge of what came before them both. It's about culture. Michael is great, but all the constructed alien aura is cracking, and we begin to realize that he became a lazy punk. If only "Thriller" didn't happen to him. But so goes the world.

If you want to hear some 3 seconds long Lexicon reverb tails, there's plenty of that, everywhere, and particularly in Swedien's work. But music isn't staring at fireworks for ever. Only children and retarded can. The sane man, at some point, looks for a candle burning, a forest fire, a glow in the dark, marvels yet unheard.

Only Prince sounds like Prince. And his records are way more sonically perfect than you think they are. You just don't have the proper equipment. If it is your eardrums, your speakers or your headphones that fail you, I can't tell. Could be your heart, but God forbid.

[Edited 6/21/17 20:47pm]

That is a long non-sensical rant however I hoenstly feel like it misses the larger point of it all. Susan is not talking about the production or the quality of things such as the reverb and whatnot. She is strictly talking about the sheer audio fidelity from an objective standpoint. We all love Prince and his studio albums, but it is obvious that Prince's studio albums from that time are not the shining examples of the perfect mix, or perfect stereo imaging. However the larger point is that the music and artistry is so damn good that the albums stand on their own and we can look past their sonic imperfections. Nobody is being a button pusher

[Edited 6/21/17 21:08pm]

I rant because any intellectual attempt to separate the paint from the canvas is not only useless, it's just dumb. This "what if" game is senseless. It drives me mad because it's Prince's vision (the way he considered a final mix) that you contest. And also his ability to work fast.

It's like you just can't reconcile the fact that one can work fast, and good. Fuck, WDC is sonically impeccable, I have the original vinyls as a reference, and this is just perfection from start to finish. The flanger, the phasers, the backing vocals, I'm not talking about music here, but just the way it has been imprinted into tape.

Define "sheer". What are your references? What makes a modern musician a singular voice, if not his sound? Prince knew the organic quality of a demoish sound, at a time when everyone else were going for, again, the SSLs and Lexicons (are we talkin about sound, or not?).

My guess is that some of you have this little idea in your mind how Prince should sound like. And if not, you're the usual punk who has something to say about Prince's work, because you think you got it all and you're such an expert.

Susan may not be just a button pusher, but if she were an artist, she would rave on how all of this was done. And how perfect it sounds. As it is. Unless she's blinking to WB and the message is : "Hey, I'm the one who can make it sound real good!". Except it's already perfect, and that no one is needed on this, except the heroic engineer who will bring the original analg sound to life.

Then we'll talk and I won't rant.

"Stereo imaging"... Ha! You think music is mostly playing with a kracked Nuendo, probably.
Now tell me, is "Dirt" by The Stooges a perfect recording, or not?
"Heroes"? No. They sound like shit if I had to let the engineer side of me speak.
But.that.is.precisely.the.point.
This is rock'n'roll. Fresh, young, fast and horny. Fuck your knobs and switches.

I agree with Susan. Haven't heard the PR remaster yet but I hope all of his albums especially 80s gets remastered. He had the best records on the block but not the best sound - post PR, (ATWIAD-Sign), some songs sounded even more 'spacey'. I can dig it for its underground vibe and it makes his music unique and ethereal in a way, like he's there but not fully, almost like he's teasing. You sometimes get the feeling you're not supposed to be hearing what you're hearng cuz it sounds so personal and in its own world. Like Prince is talking to himself and others in his world but not really to the listener personally. Im kinda baked but that's just the vibe I'm getting right now

When the product is sold as a "remaster" and as a "deluxe edition" then sound quality surely should matter.

Furthermore, many of us are pissed off at WB for being dishonest about the origins of the outtakes. It's highly questionable that they are "from the vault" (as in "from the vault in Paisley Park"). Printing that on the product is misleading marketing if it's not true. Some of the tracks might have even been sourced in a way that's questionable from the legal perspective. Surely that should be a valid topic for discussion on a board like this when things seem fishy.

One additional problem is that once these previously unreleased tracks have been put out in inferior sound quality by a major record company, they might not see the light of day in better sound quality in ages. You want "The Dance Electric" in better sound quality with the guitar solo included? Are you willing to wait for it for, say, twenty years?

novabrkr said:

When the product is sold as a "remaster" and as a "deluxe edition" then sound quality surely should matter.

^THIS. The Purple Rain Expanded edition is branded as a REMASTER, so there is a reasonable expectation that the recordings have been cleaned up and of a higher quality of stuff that has already been released.

If it isn't then its false marketing by WB.

[Edited 6/22/17 2:24am]

laurarichardson said:

The days of doing things the right way are over.

.

Oh please. You lot are so ridiculous. Forget already that H&RV2 had a bunch of typos? Same for plenty of other post-WBR albums.

soladeo1 said:

Seriously! It's like seeing the Sistine Chapel and getting pissed cause the security guards cologne is a little overpowering.

Preach!!!!!

jaawwnn said:

Poor ABBA

I know right! Jesus!

.

I'm going to go listen to The Visitors to atone for the sins in this thread.

laurarichardson said:

soladeo1 said:

Seriously! It's like seeing the Sistine Chapel and getting pissed cause the security guards cologne is a little overpowering.

Co-sign. They are living in La La land if think WB is going to spend loads of money on this project. I expected crap sound, nothing special about the pics, and zero promotion. People need to get over it and be happy with what we get.

I am jamming here!!!

NouveauDance said:

jaawwnn said:

Poor ABBA

I know right! Jesus!

.

I'm going to go listen to The Visitors to atone for the sins in this thread.

I repent. After all, they're one of my very first musical emotions.
Thanks for the discovery, listening to this paranoid proto-Thriller as I type.

Despite all my blabbering, like most my first contact with Prince's outtakes was through a lot of tape hiss, sped up copies, and lots of white noise. My first Black Album was a nightmare (probably a 20th generation tape), and yet I played it non-stop for months.

But poor or average quality is expected from bootlegs, and for some songs, it's part of their charm. Joy In Repetition, without the distorsion I had, sounds very flat on GB.

I'm glad we have PR Deluxe. But considering the place of the album in pop's history, I expected more work from Warner. But it's probably a very different company today. I wonder how Columbia would have dealt with Prince's career.

maceoparker007 said:

AM SORRY but you fail to recognise that 'good mastering' and sound quality go hand in hand with appreciating the song, passion and artistry.

There is a reason why Prince was a control freak and spent hours on sound checks before every live concert to ensure the sound was just right for every instrument up on that stage. He wanted to make sure everything he played and his band was being correctly heard by the crowd.

there is also a reason why he had his own recording studio in Paisley Park, he was sound engineer himself and wanted things just right....never underestimate the role good sound has on the emotional experience of a song.

I suggest you watch this:
BERNIE GRUNDMAN ON EMOTIO... MASTERING

[Edited 6/21/17 14:04pm]

Prince was alive when AOA was released. But some songs were mastered poorly, especially The Breakdown.

http://prince.org/msg/7/411078

NouveauDance said:

bonatoc said:

I rant because any intellectual attempt to separate the paint from the canvas is not only useless, it's just dumb. This "what if" game is senseless. It drives me mad because it's Prince's vision (the way he considered a final mix) that you contest. And also his ability to work fast.

It's like you just can't reconcile the fact that one can work fast, and good. Fuck, WDC is sonically impeccable, I have the original vinyls as a reference, and this is just perfection from start to finish. The flanger, the phasers, the backing vocals, I'm not talking about music here, but just the way it has been imprinted into tape.

Define "sheer". What are your references? What makes a modern musician a singular voice, if not his sound? Prince knew the organic quality of a demoish sound, at a time when everyone else were going for, again, the SSLs and Lexicons (are we talkin about sound, or not?).

My guess is that some of you have this little idea in your mind how Prince should sound like. And if not, you're the usual punk who has something to say about Prince's work, because you think you got it all and you're such an expert.

Susan may not be just a button pusher, but if she were an artist, she would rave on how all of this was done. And how perfect it sounds. As it is. Unless she's blinking to WB and the message is : "Hey, I'm the one who can make it sound real good!". Except it's already perfect, and that no one is needed on this, except the heroic engineer who will bring the original analg sound to life.

Then we'll talk and I won't rant.

"Stereo imaging"... Ha! You think music is mostly playing with a kracked Nuendo, probably.
Now tell me, is "Dirt" by The Stooges a perfect recording, or not?
"Heroes"? No. They sound like shit if I had to let the engineer side of me speak.
But.that.is.precisely.the.point.
This is rock'n'roll. Fresh, young, fast and horny. Fuck your knobs and switches.

I love you bonatoc, you are my hero here. Would you marry me?

214 said:

bonatoc said:

This is rock'n'roll. Fresh, young, fast and horny. Fuck your knobs and switches.

I love you bonatoc, you are my hero here. Would you marry me?

- Would that be cool?

[Edited 6/22/17 14:40pm]

bonatoc said:

214 said:

I love you bonatoc, you are my hero here. Would you marry me?

- Would that be cool?

[Edited 6/22/17 14:40pm]

Let's pretend we're married, it's that cool with you?

214 said:

bonatoc said:

- Would that be cool?

[Edited 6/22/17 14:40pm]

Let's pretend we're married, it's that cool with you?

Can I be y'all's flowergirl???

LBrent said:

Gang bang everyone.

214 said:

rdhull said:

214 said:

Gang bang everyone.

I'm game

We're gonna have some fun babe.

"Things should start to get interesting right about now"