JorisE73 said:

Revolution81 said:

No u didnt, i was refering more to some of the other replies

I dont really want to go into it all again, its been discussed loads already

Can you point me to some of these discussions?

No sorry, i genuinely dont have the time or desire to go back through it all

luvsexy4all said:

BoraBora said:

Masters' Deterioration?!?!?

no..theyre just not very good songs

SquirrelMeat said:

The facts

Apr 2014 - WB and Prince confirm a new deal is done and PR deluxe with be released. There is no confirmation that PR will contain unreleased music, only that the overall deal will involve unheard music. It is also suggested from some sources that a new Greatest Hits was agreed.

May 2014 - Prince starts playing Electric Intercourse live again.

Sept 2014 - Prince starts bad mouthing WB again.

Jan 2015 - Prince is asked where is the PR remaster and he says we should ask WB as he delivered it.

April 2016 - Prince dies.

Sept 2016 - WB announce new greatest hits, including unreleased song. PRN estate make comment that they have no involvement in the release, suggesting no vault access has been given to WB and that material they have was either given to them by Prince as part of the new deal or from sources already in their possession.

Nov 2016 - 4Ever is released and contains Moonbeam levels. The audio source seems indentical to those of circulating in the bootleg marked and do not sound 'pristine'.

Early 2017 - WB announce PR remaster with unreleased songs.

Apr 2017 - Track list leaks for disc of unreleased material and contains a mixture of project recordings, not soley PR tracks.

May 2017 - Universal suggest that WB have exclusive rights to 80's material for several years and make moves to annul their deal with the estate.

May 2017 - Electric intercourse is released and WB expressely say is was uncovered in the vault but make no date reference. The audio quality is excellent.

May 2017 - Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden is released. The audio quality is not pristine. No reference is made about the source.


My guess....

Following the 2014 deal, and then (in Prince's opinion) WB dissing him not showing interest in his new albums; Prince submitted a PR remaster with only one or two unreleased tracks directly linked to the Film; Electric Intercouse and Father's Song.

WB delay putting it out, wanting more. Prince refuses, says its up to WB for the delay.

Prince dies and WB execs look to maximise the sales from the 2014 deal. They use their own poorer source material for songs under their licence control, but do not have access to the master tapes. Only PR and the addtional tracks Prince gave them are in pristine quality.

WB aren't breaking laws, they are simply putting out some sub par quality now, rather than waiting for the estate to be settled and get access to the master tapes for the music they are allowed to release under their existing agreement.

Sounds reasonable and simple

feeluupp said:

On a recently new mini documentary talking about the PR DELUXE ALBUM on a Holland tv program...

Susan Rodgers said the remaster came from the original source and masters for the album and the unrleased songs.

I dont understand the technicalities. Does this make a big sound difference?:

Thx

I hope they go into some great detail about these unreleased songs in the booklet

darkroman said:

djThunderfunk said:

Can't disagree with a single word.

I can't agree with most of that!!!

Nov 2016 - WB had Moonbeam levels in their possession a long time from which the leak could have come from. The 'bootleg' is a leak from the master! That's why they sound the same.

April 2017 - The tracklisting was not leaked. Militant worked it out with some awesome detective work and posted it here first!

As for the 'guesses' they are exactly that.

We live in a world where fiction soon is believed to be fact - when repeated often enough. If we don't know we should simply say we don't know.

Which is exactly why I seperated the facts from guesses.

I never speculated on the scorce of ML and the PR tracklisting did leak. How that leak was put together is another matter.

Well, my copy should be here soon, so I can see how many tracks have come from a fecked up cassette

[Edited 6/17/17 0:42am]

SquirrelMeat said:

The facts

Apr 2014 - WB and Prince confirm a new deal is done and PR deluxe with be released. There is no confirmation that PR will contain unreleased music, only that the overall deal will involve unheard music. It is also suggested from some sources that a new Greatest Hits was agreed.

May 2014 - Prince starts playing Electric Intercourse live again.

Sept 2014 - Prince starts bad mouthing WB again.

Jan 2015 - Prince is asked where is the PR remaster and he says we should ask WB as he delivered it.

April 2016 - Prince dies.

Sept 2016 - WB announce new greatest hits, including unreleased song. PRN estate make comment that they have no involvement in the release, suggesting no vault access has been given to WB and that material they have was either given to them by Prince as part of the new deal or from sources already in their possession.

Nov 2016 - 4Ever is released and contains Moonbeam levels. The audio source seems indentical to those of circulating in the bootleg marked and do not sound 'pristine'.

Early 2017 - WB announce PR remaster with unreleased songs.

Apr 2017 - Track list leaks for disc of unreleased material and contains a mixture of project recordings, not soley PR tracks.

May 2017 - Universal suggest that WB have exclusive rights to 80's material for several years and make moves to annul their deal with the estate.

May 2017 - Electric intercourse is released and WB expressely say is was uncovered in the vault but make no date reference. The audio quality is excellent.

May 2017 - Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden is released. The audio quality is not pristine. No reference is made about the source.


My guess....

Following the 2014 deal, and then (in Prince's opinion) WB dissing him not showing interest in his new albums; Prince submitted a PR remaster with only one or two unreleased tracks directly linked to the Film; Electric Intercouse and Father's Song.

WB delay putting it out, wanting more. Prince refuses, says its up to WB for the delay.

Prince dies and WB execs look to maximise the sales from the 2014 deal. They use their own poorer source material for songs under their licence control, but do not have access to the master tapes. Only PR and the addtional tracks Prince gave them are in pristine quality.

WB aren't breaking laws, they are simply putting out some sub par quality now, rather than waiting for the estate to be settled and get access to the master tapes for the music they are allowed to release under their existing agreement.

Exactly what I say since months. Seems logical

feeluupp said:

jazzz said:

*

Which Dutch TV show was that? maybe I can watch it back...

Short clip from the show:

https://twitter.com/serpan99/status/874632712119865344

*

Thanks (dank je wel)!!

RODSERLING said:

SquirrelMeat said:

The facts

Apr 2014 - WB and Prince confirm a new deal is done and PR deluxe with be released. There is no confirmation that PR will contain unreleased music, only that the overall deal will involve unheard music. It is also suggested from some sources that a new Greatest Hits was agreed.

May 2014 - Prince starts playing Electric Intercourse live again.

Sept 2014 - Prince starts bad mouthing WB again.

Jan 2015 - Prince is asked where is the PR remaster and he says we should ask WB as he delivered it.

April 2016 - Prince dies.

Sept 2016 - WB announce new greatest hits, including unreleased song. PRN estate make comment that they have no involvement in the release, suggesting no vault access has been given to WB and that material they have was either given to them by Prince as part of the new deal or from sources already in their possession.

Nov 2016 - 4Ever is released and contains Moonbeam levels. The audio source seems indentical to those of circulating in the bootleg marked and do not sound 'pristine'.

Early 2017 - WB announce PR remaster with unreleased songs.

Apr 2017 - Track list leaks for disc of unreleased material and contains a mixture of project recordings, not soley PR tracks.

May 2017 - Universal suggest that WB have exclusive rights to 80's material for several years and make moves to annul their deal with the estate.

May 2017 - Electric intercourse is released and WB expressely say is was uncovered in the vault but make no date reference. The audio quality is excellent.

May 2017 - Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden is released. The audio quality is not pristine. No reference is made about the source.


My guess....

Following the 2014 deal, and then (in Prince's opinion) WB dissing him not showing interest in his new albums; Prince submitted a PR remaster with only one or two unreleased tracks directly linked to the Film; Electric Intercouse and Father's Song.

WB delay putting it out, wanting more. Prince refuses, says its up to WB for the delay.

Prince dies and WB execs look to maximise the sales from the 2014 deal. They use their own poorer source material for songs under their licence control, but do not have access to the master tapes. Only PR and the addtional tracks Prince gave them are in pristine quality.

WB aren't breaking laws, they are simply putting out some sub par quality now, rather than waiting for the estate to be settled and get access to the master tapes for the music they are allowed to release under their existing agreement.

Exactly what I say since months. Seems logical

Except the fact that Purple Rain was remastered and overseen by PRINCE in 2015, so he either remastered it in less than a month (unlikely) or Prince as usual was being Prince, pushing stuff off on other people. Not to mention, as I've stated before, if WB had possession of and the rights to unreleased Prince material why hasn't it been released in the 20+ years since he broke from them? Oh, I know why, because they didn't.

TrevorAyer said:

rdhull said:

TrevorAyer said:

I agree ... I don't believe WB has any legal right to release the outtakes

WB is bootlegging? So gangster

I know, right? A huge corporation is, according to this place, either bootlegging material OR they are using material they already had in their corporate vault even though they don't have the rights to it RIGHT DURING THE TIME WHEN THE LIGHT WOULD SHINE ON THEM FOR DOING SO! Next thing you know they'll think WB wants to ride his motorcycle.....

jjam said:

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

rdhull said:

TrevorAyer said: WB is bootlegging? So gangster

I know, right? A huge corporation is, according to this place, either bootlegging material OR they are using material they already had in their corporate vault even though they don't have the rights to it RIGHT DURING THE TIME WHEN THE LIGHT WOULD SHINE ON THEM FOR DOING SO! Next thing you know they'll think WB wants to ride his motorcycle.....

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

RODSERLING said:

Exactly what I say since months. Seems logical

Except the fact that Purple Rain was remastered and overseen by PRINCE in 2015, so he either remastered it in less than a month (unlikely) or Prince as usual was being Prince, pushing stuff off on other people. Not to mention, as I've stated before, if WB had possession of and the rights to unreleased Prince material why hasn't it been released in the 20+ years since he broke from them? Oh, I know why, because they didn't.

Under his orginal contract, WB could not issue material on without artist approval. In 2000, Prince explicitly called out CD reissues of 12" singles as 'bootlegs' as he had not given permission for their release. It probably stems from the industry wide issue that contracts in the 70's and 80's didn't foresee CD's and digital media, so their was no clause to cover reissues on alternative media.

Obviously we don't know the content of the 2014 deal, but you would expect those clauses to include both death of the artist, and media options.

ThirdStrike said:

jjam said:

Well, my copy should be here soon, so I can see how many tracks have come from a fecked up cassette

[Edited 6/17/17 0:42am]

Sooner then the rest of us?

And your point is?

jjam said:

There is definite bleeding on the top end in the recent 'Prince 4ever' release of 'Moonbeam Levels' between vocals and high end drums. My only worry is, if the masters haven't been properly preserved, meaning checked in on every couple of years, expertly digitally transferred etc. is this, quality wise, what we should expect for the future? Is this literally the best mix from master we can ever expect? Regardless of label/family ownership...

well... the bleeding is simply also because of how he recorded. Father's Song has bleed from, amongst others, a guitar track that luckily wasn't used in the final mix. (both at the start, and a little more pronounced at the end)

.

There will simply be a number of songs that sound a bit odd because of that. In other cases it might be because of tape degradation. In yet other cases it might be because of Warner's not having the original masters but a later generation copy.

.

I'll take whatever is available. I hope the documentation of what songs comes from what recording will be released as well. The story of what has happened over the years with all the recordings is interesting to me.

SquirrelMeat said:

Under his orginal contract, WB could not issue material on without artist approval. In 2000, Prince explicitly called out CD reissues of 12" singles as 'bootlegs' as he had not given permission for their release. It probably stems from the industry wide issue that contracts in the 70's and 80's didn't foresee CD's and digital media, so their was no clause to cover reissues on alternative media.

I remember him going off on that on one of this sites. He actually wanted people to send their CDs to Paisley Park. So what end, I don't remember. Prince has money to burn. The average consumer sets aside money to buy Prince releases, or a group of releases (like the Purple Rain Deluxe plethora of stuff, some fans buying more than one item). It was one of the dumbest things he ever said or did. Turn in your CDs?!?!

The other side of that whole thing is that much of those releases were already out. They were German or European (in general) releases. I saw a lot of those in the early 90s, albeit in the Import section of the store. They weren't recent reissues at that time, or even reissues in a proper sense. They were singles, often beefed up with extra tracks as things are outside the US (ever wonder about those Japanese or Australian bonus track/disks? There's a reason for those with artists.) And don't think for a minute Prince wasn't seeing money from those sales. Format arguments aside, it's still his music, and he still gets a songwriting royalty and an artist royalty. If he wasn't getting a royalty check in 2000 from his songs being sold on CD in Germany or France, then that made him one of the dumbest rock stars around, that as long as he'd been in the business and renegotiated his contract many times that he still wasn't getting paid for his music. Bish, pls.