jjam said:

Bernie Grundman remastered the album - he also mastered the original release of the album.

What about the vault tracks? I mean, those are the ones we're squabbling about anyway, right?

As far as the OP, good news indeed! Thanks for sharing.

ThirdStrike said:

BoraBora said:

paulludvig said:

So how do we explain the sound quality on Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden?

Masters' Deterioration?!?!?

no..theyre just not very good songs

djThunderfunk said:

Genesia said:

So basically, they're only not bootlegs if Prince agreed to their release or if WB owns them outright. The question is: Do they?

Like you, I'm not privy to the details of their arrangement. They're claiming they do and he's no longer around to dispute that.

All of this is irrelevant to whether or not the outtakes are sourced from a master tape, or some mixdown or other source that may be in WB's possession.

I heard Prince just dropped tape copies (not master tapes) of loads of songs off at WB back when he was under their contract to let them hear what he was working on and WB and Prince then just decided what they wanted released or not. WB also made sampler tapes of a lot of his unreleased songs that Prince gave them to potentially have other artists on their label record. I believe a lot of bootlegs come not from Prince but from those WB's tapes.

tollyc said:

ThirdStrike said:

Of course it did.

As a friend to many of P's bandmates, we all agree that moonbeam levels did NOT come from the original master recording.

That one probably came from a copy WB has of the song?

[Edited 6/14/17 0:15am]

luvsexy4all said:

BoraBora said:

Masters' Deterioration?!?!?

no..theyre just not very good songs

? What does that have to do with the quality of the sound recording? Or am I missing something?

luvsexy4all said:

BoraBora said:

Masters' Deterioration?!?!?

no..theyre just not very good songs

And this opinion what exactly have to do with the subject of the topic?!?!?

Great. Thanks feeluup.

JorisE73 said:

I heard Prince just dropped tape copies (not master tapes) of loads of songs off at WB back when he was under their contract to let them hear what he was working on and WB and Prince then just decided what they wanted released or not. WB also made sampler tapes of a lot of his unreleased songs that Prince gave them to potentially have other artists on their label record. I believe a lot of bootlegs come not from Prince but from those WB's tapes.

This.

jjam said:

Have you watched the video? She makes no mention of the outtakes.

I'm not the only person on here that's said that Our Destiny and Moonbeam Levels clearly do not come from master tapes.

The issue I have with this constant statement is that, if they do not...where are the better sounding qualities to say that there actually proves that these are not from the masters? Receipts?

paisleypark4 said:

jjam said:

Have you watched the video? She makes no mention of the outtakes.

I'm not the only person on here that's said that Our Destiny and Moonbeam Levels clearly do not come from master tapes.

The issue I have with this constant statement is that, if they do not...where are the better sounding qualities to say that there actually proves that these are not from the masters? Receipts?

Audio forensics.

Many of us Prince nerds are also audio nerds.

luvsexy4all said:

TrivialPursuit said:

darkroman said:

I suppose it was recorded 35+ years ago and sounds like it was recorded 35+ years ago, so I don't see (or hear) the problem.

Thank you for saying that. While the source of the "Moonbeams Levels" release is up for debate, we do have to remember exactly what you said. There's only so much that can be done to decades-old recordings before losing the integrity of the original recording and intention.

PS If you hit Shift Enter between lines, you won't have to do that period between paragraph thing. Unless you love the period. PERIOD FTW! hehe

WOW, thank you so very much!

That's bloomin' awesome advice!!!!

djThunderfunk said:

paisleypark4 said:

The issue I have with this constant statement is that, if they do not...where are the better sounding qualities to say that there actually proves that these are not from the masters? Receipts?

Audio forensics.

Many of us Prince nerds are also audio nerds.

I worked for years in Facilities/Operations at a major animation studio. I became friends with many of the artists. We were sitting aound one lunchbreak watching old "Flinstones" cartoons on the TV. Now, the "Flinstones" were one of my favorites growing up. Had fond memories as a kid spending countless hours watching re-run episodes and just enjoying the art of it. Now as we sat there watching...and I was reaching back in time remembering my carefree years as a child...one of those artists proceeded to tell me how each scene was made. He said they recycled storyboard art from other episodes, borrowed from other shows, etc. Dude ruined watching it for me by citing all this technical garbage. Now watching "The Flinstones" will never be the same for me. Kind of feels the same in here reading stuff like this...

[Edited 6/14/17 9:57am]

ThirdStrike said:

djThunderfunk said:

Audio forensics.

Many of us Prince nerds are also audio nerds.

I worked for years in Facilities/Operations at a major animation studio. I became friends with many of the artists. We were sitting aound one lunchbreak watching old "Flinstones" cartoons on the TV. Now, the "Flinstones" were one of my favorites growing up. Had fond memories as a kid spending countless hours watching re-run episodes and just enjoying the art of it. Now as we sat there watching...and I was reaching back in time remembering my carefree years as a child...one of those artists proceeded to tell me how each scene was made. He said they recycled storyboard art from other episodes, borrowed from other shows, etc. Dude ruined watching it for me by citing all this technical garbage. Now watching "The Flinstones" will never be the same for me. Kind of feels the same in here reading stuff like this...

[Edited 6/14/17 9:57am]

And some of us geek out on stuff like this. There's enough room for both.

djThunderfunk said:

ThirdStrike said:

I worked for years in Facilities/Operations at a major animation studio. I became friends with many of the artists. We were sitting aound one lunchbreak watching old "Flinstones" cartoons on the TV. Now, the "Flinstones" were one of my favorites growing up. Had fond memories as a kid spending countless hours watching re-run episodes and just enjoying the art of it. Now as we sat there watching...and I was reaching back in time remembering my carefree years as a child...one of those artists proceeded to tell me how each scene was made. He said they recycled storyboard art from other episodes, borrowed from other shows, etc. Dude ruined watching it for me by citing all this technical garbage. Now watching "The Flinstones" will never be the same for me. Kind of feels the same in here reading stuff like this...

[Edited 6/14/17 9:57am]

And some of us geek out on stuff like this. There's enough room for both.

You're right. My choice to read posts or not read posts. We can co-exist harmoniously I guess...

**These, ...pretzels......are making me thirsty!

2045RadicalMattZ said:

djThunderfunk said:

ThirdStrike said:

I worked for years in Facilities/Operations at a major animation studio. I became friends with many of the artists. We were sitting aound one lunchbreak watching old "Flinstones" cartoons on the TV. Now, the "Flinstones" were one of my favorites growing up. Had fond memories as a kid spending countless hours watching re-run episodes and just enjoying the art of it. Now as we sat there watching...and I was reaching back in time remembering my carefree years as a child...one of those artists proceeded to tell me how each scene was made. He said they recycled storyboard art from other episodes, borrowed from other shows, etc. Dude ruined watching it for me by citing all this technical garbage. Now watching "The Flinstones" will never be the same for me. Kind of feels the same in here reading stuff like this...

[Edited 6/14/17 9:57am]

And some of us geek out on stuff like this. There's enough room for both.

I see what U mean. Its like I know the sound is a little warped on Roadhouse Garden, however it still was a new version from the circulating version that popped up a couple months ago (without the bands background vocals on it and actually they sound the same in quality). This is perhaps the best there is unless they went in there and remixed it themselves, but Prince was not reviving these PR era tracks like he did with the Crystal Ball tunes. They are as is it sounds like.

If anyone however can present anything better then they should, but not one person has posted a "better quality" version of any of the released unreleased tracks (Moonbeam, Intercourse, Our Detiny/Roadhouse) so they are just yapping at the mouth.

35 year old Ampex tapes don't age well

jazzz said:

Which Dutch TV show was that? maybe I can watch it back...

Not Dutch tv: it was filmed for the Rhino Facebook-page for the Benelux. Tomorrow they'll put part 2 of the interview online.

paisleypark4 said:

djThunderfunk said:

And some of us geek out on stuff like this. There's enough room for both.

I see what U mean. Its like I know the sound is a little warped on Roadhouse Garden, however it still was a new version from the circulating version that popped up a couple months ago (without the bands background vocals on it and actually they sound the same in quality). This is perhaps the best there is unless they went in there and remixed it themselves, but Prince was not reviving these PR era tracks like he did with the Crystal Ball tunes. They are as is it sounds like.

If anyone however can present anything better then they should, but not one person has posted a "better quality" version of any of the released unreleased tracks (Moonbeam, Intercourse, Our Detiny/Roadhouse) so they are just yapping at the mouth.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make in the last paragraph.

You shouldn't be allowed to comment on the tracks sounding suspicious unless you happen to be some sort of an elite bootleg collector that has the tracks in better sound quality? Uhm, what?

SanDiegoFunkDaddy said:

35 year old Ampex tapes don't age well

Yet 35 year old BASF, TDK, AGFA and other consumer-grade tapes are typically still in pretty good condition.

paulludvig said:

So how do we explain the sound quality on Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden?

i still think that it wasn't finished, just a demo, EI was ready on the album which is why it sounds way better

novabrkr said:

paisleypark4 said:

I see what U mean. Its like I know the sound is a little warped on Roadhouse Garden, however it still was a new version from the circulating version that popped up a couple months ago (without the bands background vocals on it and actually they sound the same in quality). This is perhaps the best there is unless they went in there and remixed it themselves, but Prince was not reviving these PR era tracks like he did with the Crystal Ball tunes. They are as is it sounds like.

If anyone however can present anything better then they should, but not one person has posted a "better quality" version of any of the released unreleased tracks (Moonbeam, Intercourse, Our Detiny/Roadhouse) so they are just yapping at the mouth.

I don't understand the point you're trying to make in the last paragraph.

You shouldn't be allowed to comment on the tracks sounding suspicious unless you happen to be some sort of an elite bootleg collector that has the tracks in better sound quality? Uhm, what?

The point I'm making is that for those who say that the Estate is shelling out circulating bootleg tracks and lying saying it is actually from the Vault; they should present better versions if that is the case. If not then they only thing they are doing is typing loud and saying nothing.

Otherwise, the tracks are actually from the vault and we will just have to deal with the sound quality Prince left us with.

bigd74 said:

paulludvig said:

So how do we explain the sound quality on Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden?

i still think that it wasn't finished, just a demo, EI was ready on the album which is why it sounds way better

and folks got Steve Austin ears

TrevorAyer said:

The point is that the outtakes are NOT from the Vault but rather are from WB collection, which at times is not pristine due to being of varying sources. These songs likely DO exist in the actual vault IN PRISTINE CONDITION ... but WB has no access, no permission, and likely no legal right to release those versions. Perhaps an arrangement could have been made for WB to release outtakes straitvfrom the real vault, but if it was legally likely, the wouldn't likely be rushing these bootleg quality versions out for a quick cash grab.

Well, lets hope the rest are at least up to par with Electric Intercourse's quality...which was damn good.

The facts

Apr 2014 - WB and Prince confirm a new deal is done and PR deluxe with be released. There is no confirmation that PR will contain unreleased music, only that the overall deal will involve unheard music. It is also suggested from some sources that a new Greatest Hits was agreed.

May 2014 - Prince starts playing Electric Intercourse live again.

Sept 2014 - Prince starts bad mouthing WB again.

Jan 2015 - Prince is asked where is the PR remaster and he says we should ask WB as he delivered it.

April 2016 - Prince dies.

Sept 2016 - WB announce new greatest hits, including unreleased song. PRN estate make comment that they have no involvement in the release, suggesting no vault access has been given to WB and that material they have was either given to them by Prince as part of the new deal or from sources already in their possession.

Nov 2016 - 4Ever is released and contains Moonbeam levels. The audio source seems indentical to those of circulating in the bootleg marked and do not sound 'pristine'.

Early 2017 - WB announce PR remaster with unreleased songs.

Apr 2017 - Track list leaks for disc of unreleased material and contains a mixture of project recordings, not soley PR tracks.

May 2017 - Universal suggest that WB have exclusive rights to 80's material for several years and make moves to annul their deal with the estate.

May 2017 - Electric intercourse is released and WB expressely say is was uncovered in the vault but make no date reference. The audio quality is excellent.

May 2017 - Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden is released. The audio quality is not pristine. No reference is made about the source.


My guess....

Following the 2014 deal, and then (in Prince's opinion) WB dissing him not showing interest in his new albums; Prince submitted a PR remaster with only one or two unreleased tracks directly linked to the Film; Electric Intercouse and Father's Song.

WB delay putting it out, wanting more. Prince refuses, says its up to WB for the delay.

Prince dies and WB execs look to maximise the sales from the 2014 deal. They use their own poorer source material for songs under their licence control, but do not have access to the master tapes. Only PR and the addtional tracks Prince gave them are in pristine quality.

WB aren't breaking laws, they are simply putting out some sub par quality now, rather than waiting for the estate to be settled and get access to the master tapes for the music they are allowed to release under their existing agreement.