novabrkr said:

In the clip linked above she doesn't say anything about the previously unreleased songs coming from the original tapes.

[Edited 6/13/17 13:02pm]

That's only one small clip, the whole show I don't have the link for...

novabrkr said:

In the clip linked above she doesn't say anything about the previously unreleased songs coming from the original tapes.

exactly. she doesn't mention the previously unreleased material at all.

IstenSzek said:

novabrkr said:

In the clip linked above she doesn't say anything about the previously unreleased songs coming from the original tapes.

exactly. she doesn't mention the previously unreleased material at all.

...and so the disregard for facts from the "those-in-the-know" crowd begins...

feeluupp said:

novabrkr said:

In the clip linked above she doesn't say anything about the previously unreleased songs coming from the original tapes.

[Edited 6/13/17 13:02pm]

That's only one small clip, the whole show I don't have the link for...

Then we should preferably wait for a link that provides her statement on the issue in full before jumping to conclusions.

Sorry, but your original post on the content of the interview is too vague for me to buy it 100% without additional links provided.

djThunderfunk said:

Genesia said:

Uhhhh...I think that's pretty much the definition of "bootleg."

Uhhhh... no.


If WB is in legal possession of mixdowns, acetates, alternate album cuts, etc... those tracks in their possession would not be "bootlegs". What they vaulted from their time in business with Prince is personal property that belongs to them, Prince or jointly, depending on their contractual agreements and precedent.

Using them would not be sourcing from bootleg, it would be sourcing from non masters.

This is not the same as claiming they used a FLAC file from a bootleg they downloaded.

So basically, they're only not bootlegs if Prince agreed to their release or if WB owns them outright. The question is: Do they?

ThirdStrike said:

IstenSzek said:

exactly. she doesn't mention the previously unreleased material at all.

...and so the disregard for facts from the "those-in-the-know" crowd begins...

hey i'll accept any proof. and if she mentions those claims that are being made by the op
in the whole show once it airs, i'll be very happy indeed that these songs have indeed been
sourced from the original tapes.

but until someone actually says 'we got the original tapes out of the vault AT PAISLEY PARK
and lovingly remastered/restored them' or (even more unlikely) 'bernie grundman worked
on the previously unreleased material together with prince, to master the original tapes and
bring you the best possible quality straight from the paisley park vault' -i'll be sceptical.

for all the reasons that have been discussed at length in other threads.

all it would take is for either susan or bernie, or the siblings or anyone from the estate, to
just say 'all of this was handed to warners directly by prince' or 'i, we, he, worked with wb
and got the original tapes of those previously unheard songs from the paisley park vault'.

no one mentiones that because no one went in there for that disc of unreleased songs.
eventhough warners claims that this package is prince's last and final word on his own
ultimate masterpiece.

the original album, yes. the rest. show me some receipts first.

ThirdStrike said:

IstenSzek said:

exactly. she doesn't mention the previously unreleased material at all.

...and so the disregard for facts from the "those-in-the-know" crowd begins...

A vague account of something that might have been stated on a television program does not qualify as "a fact".

IstenSzek said:

ThirdStrike said:

...and so the disregard for facts from the "those-in-the-know" crowd begins...

hey i'll accept any proof. and if she mentions those claims that are being made by the op
in the whole show once it airs, i'll be very happy indeed that these songs have indeed been
sourced from the original tapes.

but until someone actually says 'we got the original tapes out of the vault AT PAISLEY PARK
and lovingly remastered/restored them' or (even more unlikely) 'bernie grundman worked
on the previously unreleased material together with prince, to master the original tapes and
bring you the best possible quality straight from the paisley park vault' -i'll be sceptical.

for all the reasons that have been discussed at length in other threads.

all it would take is for either susan or bernie, or the siblings or anyone from the estate, to
just say 'all of this was handed to warners directly by prince' or 'i, we, he, worked with wb
and got the original tapes of those previously unheard songs from the paisley park vault'.

no one mentiones that because no one went in there for that disc of unreleased songs.
eventhough warners claims that this package is prince's last and final word on his own
ultimate masterpiece.

the original album, yes. the rest. show me some receipts first.

Fair enough. But let me ask you then...whyy do you need any of that info? Will it help you enjoy the song any more or less when it's released? Does validating those things (either way) define the work as good or not? Just curious...

Phishanga said:

darkroman said:

I don't understand why people are convinced some masters have come from bootlegs.

.

After all, where do you think some bootlegs have come from... the masters - albeit stolen!!!!

.

Nobody thinks the masters come from bootlegs. That doesn't even make sense.

.

I absolutely and totally agree - that would be bonkers, after all WB is a professional company.

.

However, some people have stipulated Moonbeam Levels came from Blast From The Past.

.

Yet, if a bootleg compilation is made from stolen masters, then naturally the sound of the bootleg and the sound of the official release will undoubtedly sound similar (if not the same).

.

ThirdStrike said:

IstenSzek said:

hey i'll accept any proof. and if she mentions those claims that are being made by the op
in the whole show once it airs, i'll be very happy indeed that these songs have indeed been
sourced from the original tapes.

but until someone actually says 'we got the original tapes out of the vault AT PAISLEY PARK
and lovingly remastered/restored them' or (even more unlikely) 'bernie grundman worked
on the previously unreleased material together with prince, to master the original tapes and
bring you the best possible quality straight from the paisley park vault' -i'll be sceptical.

for all the reasons that have been discussed at length in other threads.

all it would take is for either susan or bernie, or the siblings or anyone from the estate, to
just say 'all of this was handed to warners directly by prince' or 'i, we, he, worked with wb
and got the original tapes of those previously unheard songs from the paisley park vault'.

no one mentiones that because no one went in there for that disc of unreleased songs.
eventhough warners claims that this package is prince's last and final word on his own
ultimate masterpiece.

the original album, yes. the rest. show me some receipts first.

Fair enough. But let me ask you then...whyy do you need any of that info? Will it help you enjoy the song any more or less when it's released? Does validating those things (either way) define the work as good or not? Just curious...

oh, absolutely not. if the soundquality is good enough, i don't care at all. it's only interesting to
discuss it because warners hasn't been very clear about any of this imo. i couldn't care less if
they'd (for instance) said 'prince didn't get around to finishing the project so we completed it
with songs we had in our own vault, lovingly restored by professionals' or something like that.

that would be just fine.

but it's just discussing what came from where and why these people aren't honest or at least
a lot more transparant.

at the end of the day all that matters is the songs and if the soudquality is good, i don't mind
who got them or from where.

On a slightly different note, Roadhouse Garden sounds perfectly fine to me.

.

I'm not entirely sure what is wrong with it.

.

I suppose it was recorded 35+ years ago and sounds like it was recorded 35+ years ago, so I don't see (or hear) the problem.

.

darkroman said:

I suppose it was recorded 35+ years ago and sounds like it was recorded 35+ years ago, so I don't see (or hear) the problem.

Thank you for saying that. While the source of the "Moonbeams Levels" release is up for debate, we do have to remember exactly what you said. There's only so much that can be done to decades-old recordings before losing the integrity of the original recording and intention.

PS If you hit Shift Enter between lines, you won't have to do that period between paragraph thing. Unless you love the period. PERIOD FTW! hehe

darkroman said:

Phishanga said:

Nobody thinks the masters come from bootlegs. That doesn't even make sense.

.

I absolutely and totally agree - that would be bonkers, after all WB is a professional company.

.

However, some people have stipulated Moonbeam Levels came from Blast From The Past.

.

Yet, if a bootleg compilation is made from stolen masters, then naturally the sound of the bootleg and the sound of the official release will undoubtedly sound similar (if not the same).

.

thank you. I agree.

If people want to kid themselves that Our Destiny and Moonbeam Levels came from deteriorated masters, go for it...

jjam said:

If people want to kid themselves that Our Destiny and Moonbeam Levels came from deteriorated masters, go for it...

Cool. Thanks. Because they did.

ThirdStrike said:

jjam said:

If people want to kid themselves that Our Destiny and Moonbeam Levels came from deteriorated masters, go for it...

Cool. Thanks. Because they did.

You're totally deluded in thinking that.

Genesia said:

So basically, they're only not bootlegs if Prince agreed to their release or if WB owns them outright. The question is: Do they?

Like you, I'm not privy to the details of their arrangement. They're claiming they do and he's no longer around to dispute that.

All of this is irrelevant to whether or not the outtakes are sourced from a master tape, or some mixdown or other source that may be in WB's possession.

jjam said:

ThirdStrike said:

Cool. Thanks. Because they did.

You're totally deluded in thinking that.

You ain't kidding. Deluded is the best way to function amidst all this stupidity and ignorance in here nowadays...

Well, I've worked in the music industry for just over 20 years including being a producer for Sony and Warner Music as well as often mastering and engineering.

So I think I have a pretty good idea when something sounds like it simply comes from a source a good few generations away from the master, as opposed to from a master tape that's seen better days.

jjam said:

Well, I've worked in the music industry for just over 20 years including being a producer for Sony and Warner Music as well as often mastering and engineering.

So I think I have a pretty good idea when something sounds like it simply comes from a source a good few generations away from the master, as opposed to from a master tape that's seen better days.

Did you work on this project?

No.

jjam said:

Susan Rogers mentioned that the actual album has come from the master tapes - she did not mention the outtakes, did she?

By the way, I have no desire to work where you work, but thanks!

jjam said:

Ha!

jjam said:

No.

Next question...Did Susan Rogers work on this project?

Have you watched the video? She makes no mention of the outtakes.

I'm not the only person on here that's said that Our Destiny and Moonbeam Levels clearly do not come from master tapes.

ThirdStrike said:

jjam said:

No.

Next question...Did Susan Rogers work on this project?

I thought she said she didn't, in the past? It was a guy I'd never heard of that did this one specifically. I feel like there was even an article about him posted on here recently too. Might be worth digging into the existing sticky and searching for "enginner" or "remaster", just to see what pops up. If I'm right, the article in question was only a week or two ago.

Bernie Grundman remastered the album - he also mastered the original release of the album.