A 10 for all

I agree. A 10 for everything --- without a doubt!!!!

twinnies said:

I'd probably rate his drumming a bit lower than everything else, because while he was quite solid at laying down a beat (or the occasional solo like in "Irresistible Bitch"), his drumming never quite reached the levels of his other instrumental playing. There was something oddly rigid about his drumming style, it's really hard to explain but you can tell he was self-taught and became a unique player in that regard, but the groove was still there.

laytonian said:

twinnies said:

I agree. A 10 for everything --- without a doubt!!!!

. All 10s. Don't forget he was also his own background singer (a different skill set), producer, arranger, and did it all while beautiful.

Obviously we're having a hard time doing this in any useful way--probably because a 10 point scale isn't fine enough. You guys are giving 10s because he's very good at these things--but the bottom half of the scale probably shouldn't be used for anyone who does any of these things professionally--and almost everyone we'd know of would be at least a 7. So there's not much room for differentiating from any other performer and Prince on the scale. I'm stuck with not wanting to give 10s, because I want to keep that for the "very best" and while he's close, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with saying he's the very best at all of them--or any of them. So... 9s across the board? I'm still pretty sure he wins as a generalist, if it's a contest.

EddieC said:

Obviously we're having a hard time doing this in any useful way--probably because a 10 point scale isn't fine enough. You guys are giving 10s because he's very good at these things--but the bottom half of the scale probably shouldn't be used for anyone who does any of these things professionally--and almost everyone we'd know of would be at least a 7. So there's not much room for differentiating from any other performer and Prince on the scale. I'm stuck with not wanting to give 10s, because I want to keep that for the "very best" and while he's close, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with saying he's the very best at all of them--or any of them. So... 9s across the board? I'm still pretty sure he wins as a generalist, if it's a contest.

Being that Prince is a genius then the scores should be off the scales

10 1/2.

soladeo1 said:

Singing: Guitar Playing (Rhythm): Guitar Playing (Lead): Piano/Keyboard Playing: Bass Playing: Drum Playing: Songwriting (Melody): Songwriting (Lyrics): Onstage Charisma: Dancing (Assume the Year 1986): Producing:

Rather than wear rose coloured glasses, I will be more altruistic here and give more insight.

.

Scale

10 = The very best/perfection

9 = Excellent, highly developed abilities in this regard

8 = Well above average abilities

7 = Average compared to his peers

6 = Below average, less known but still competent

5 = Tries hard but overall not that great at it

4 = Seriously lacking

Under 3 = Very poor

.

Singing 9.5/10 - Overall has a good range and many styles, but he was too reliant on falsetto in early days and voice machines, vocoders etc after 1995. Maybe a 10 in the 80s. Still he had a beautiful voice and could definitely sing. His falsetto was excellent and so was his ability to multitrack his harmonies like on songs like Adore.

.

Rhythm Guitar 8/10 - Usually likes lead, but plugs away well enough at it. Some of his players and his proteges (Jesse Johnson) went beyond chords and added solos independent of Prince. Levi Seacer, Dez Dickerson and Lisa all brought their own skills to the guitar besides what Prince wanted.

.

Lead Guitars 9.5/10 - Definitely shone here - played some great solos and always kept a solid groove. Many of his songs have guitar highlights. Still he is not Joe Satriani, Hendrix or Santana - so just a 9.

.

Piano/Keyboard 10/10 - Here he gets a 10 as he is a wonderful player of the keys, it really was his number instrument, songs like Power Fantastic and Sometimes its snows in April, attest to this, but even piano and organ parts in most songs blow you away. Plus if you include all his synthesizer work, Prince is the king here.

.

Bass 9.5/10 - Incredible bass playing and a masterful composer, he inspired his bass players and could choose the best to play grooves. As great as Levi, Andre and Mark were, Prince was in charge and moving the bass pedal. Still he ain't no Bootsy Collins or even Flea. Still unlike with guitars, most of his players on bass bought style but nothing new, they were playing the Prince groove.

.

Drums 8.5/10 - A great player here, but there were always better drummers around him like Sheila E and Michael B amongst others. He would get a 10 for Drum machines and some of Prince's live drums were great, try tracks 1 - 4 of Parade, its a non stop Prince drum sequence. Yet Morris and Michael could show him up and no one could compare to Sheila E whose drumming was bigger than anything else. And then there is the incomparable John Blackwell. Like all instruments, Prince could choose the most talented people to play his grooves and add something new and of their own style.

.

Songwriting (Melody) 10/10 - He was perfect here too, not just his own music, but all the music he did for proteges and satellites along with outside commissions like Bangles/Madonna/Sheena Easton etc. Being an multi instrumentalist this meant all aspects of musical backing came together seamlessly.

.

Songwriting lyrics 8/10 - As enjoyable as his lyrics are, they were a second thought, some of his later songs had lyrics that made little sense and many were misheard. Also some of his lyrics were clever or too baffling you decide. He never gave lyrics the backing that his strong musical ethic was given. Nothing much beyond generic love and sex songs and the usual "I'm so great" type songs and of course nonsensical Dogmatic nonsense later on. I would lift it to 8.5 over the 1984/88 period though as lyrics on Parade, SOTT and Lovesexy were much better and had more meaning, even if fuelled by a very passionate relationship.

.

Onstage Charisma 9.75/10 - He had it in buckets, his look, his sound, his musical abilities and the visual spectacle of it all commanded an audience, but I will subtract a quarter of a mark for his lesser moments, when he was not feeling it and subjected us to sampler sets and noodling on the Piano for extended sequences of songs like God. Still his running around, dancing, shrieking and in the earlier days - instrument sex are enough to put him behind only Michael Jackson and James Brown. On his best nights (Parade and Lovesexy tours) he outshone them, but on his worst (Ultimate live experience, love4 oneanother etc) he feel well behind.

.

Dancing 8.5/10 - He was a good dancer and he peaked in the Parade era, but in reality he was not Fred Astaire and in dancing stakes, Michael Jackson showed him up and wiped the floor with him. When I think guitars, songwriting and musical skills, I think Prince, but when I think dancing and showmanship I think Michael Jackson. Apart from some of his more sexual dances, Pince never went beyond copying other artists, even Morris had the Oak Tree and the Bird, but not Prince. Still Prince was a good if not great dancer, but he was not Michael Jackson.

.

Producing - 10/10 - A no brainer, easily the greatest producer in history with people like George Martin and Phil Spector. Prince did it all, his own stuff, his proteges, guesting for others. The fact when he let Josh do production of HNR Phase 1, the result was the worst produced album of his career.

.

Overall 102.25/110 = 93% - he was the strongest at Composition and Production (Add Arranging too) and on instruments, Prince kicked the most ass with anything with Keys. His singing and guitar talents also enhanced it a lot and we can not leave his drum and bass playing. The dancing, lyrics, rhythm guitars were the weakest parts, but still remarkably strong to his peers.

.

Many of his contemporaries are very strong in certain aspects of music, but very weak in others (For instance, Mick Jagger on Guitar, Ringo on Guitar, Jimi Hendrix on Drums, Bono on guitar etc, MJ on any instrument other than voice and feet), of all the artists Prince is the most well rounded of the lot.

[Edited 6/11/17 1:23am]

I think that's Lisa playing the piano on both songs.

Adorecream said:

soladeo1 said:

Singing: Guitar Playing (Rhythm): Guitar Playing (Lead): Piano/Keyboard Playing: Bass Playing: Drum Playing: Songwriting (Melody): Songwriting (Lyrics): Onstage Charisma: Dancing (Assume the Year 1986): ProducinSantana - so just a 9.

.

Piano/Keyboard 10/10 - Here he gets a 10 as he is a wonderful player of the keys, it really was his number instrument, songs like Power Fantastic and Sometimes its snows in April, attest to this, but even piano and organ parts in most songs blow you away. Plus if you include all his synthesizer work, Prince is the king here.

Adorecream - your heading of onstage charisma seems to mainly focus on dancing ability - whereas I'd say these are 2 different things. Mick Jagger has charisma onstage but he ain't a dancer !

Prince had way more charisma than either MJ or James Brown - just think of P's cheekiness, humour, grins, winks, sexiness, raw danger etc - Jacko had none of this - he was plastic by comparison.

In terms of dancing - you refer to Prince outshining on his best nights but behind others on his lesser nights - perhaps by having so many tours which no doubt you, like me, have seens so many of - we get to glimpse a so called "lesser moment" (which in the eyes of others could well be seen as a highlight - e.g. noodling at the piano). It is far easier to have a perception of fewer lesser moments when you've probably only done 2 or 3 (Bad, Dangerous and err...) major solo tours in your career. I never saw James Brown in his hey day so have no idea how many "lesser" nights he may have had !!

I know I'd far rather watch Prince dance (between '84 - 99) than see MJ doing the same few moves from '87 (where he did introduce the wholly unconvincing crutch grabbing to his performances) to '99.

Jacko was probably the greater technical dancer but his videos and performances (with a troupe of 20 doing exactly the same moves behind him for much of the time) centred on this as this was what he had - they could hardly show him playing various instruments either as part of the band or soloing in the spotlight, could they ? So when the hype is focused on one aspect, it naturally projects a greater sense of being THAT at that.

For me Prince's dancing was more raw and real and cool; more varied, sexier, funnier -yep, prefer his dancing any day !

[Edited 6/11/17 7:58am]

RJOrion said:

@Adorecream, your detailed ratings and accompanying explanations that you are prone to posting, are almost always asinine and uninformed...no disrespect...

Taken as offense by me. This is offensive, as I have problems with the Rose Tinters that pollute this site, the ones who think Prince was an angel with wings who was perfect 100% of the time and could do no wrong, that every action he made was comparable to God.

.

Instead of criticising me, where are your ratings. I get so tired of people who criticise everything I say and do, but never go beyond that and/or offer any alternatives and you sir are by far the worst. Bereft of any opinion other than the Hive mind mentality of the blind fan with no thought processes outside the hive.

For me Prince's dancing was more raw and real and cool; more varied, sexier, funnier -yep, prefer his dancing any day !

Prince's dancing is a tricky thing because it evolved and changed throughout his life. He didn't always use it and because during his commercial peak, it was more athletic and "James Brown"sy than Michael's more original syncopated and choreographed moves, I think it is easier to short- change him a bit.

But here is why I prefer Prince's dancing (when he did it). Its sexier, looser, less repetitive, and more surprising and more soulful in a way (because it seemed to come on him when his heart was in the music.) Michael was an amazing dancer and his moves were very original (so don't get me wrong-I certainly understand the preference for Michael's dancing.)

Take the 2 minute dance solos PRince used to do in the Welcome to America Tours at the end of the song Kiss.. He was 51-52 years old and busting out some pretty impressive moves that weren't exactly the same every night. I have watched 5 different clips of him doing that dance routine and none of them were exactly the same.

Take PRince's dancing in Theives in the Temple. Apparently, he did that sequence extremely quickly and in few takes.

Take his highly athletic and well-timed dancing with the Game Boyz during the 90's. Prince and those guys had it down.

And his Parade dancing, was funny, improvizational, and loose.

Oh, his dancing during Sign of the TImes...Good stuff.

FunkDr said:

Adorecream - your heading of onstage charisma seems to mainly focus on dancing ability - whereas I'd say these are 2 different things. Mick Jagger has charisma onstage but he ain't a dancer !

Prince had way more charisma than either MJ or James Brown - just think of P's cheekiness, humour, grins, winks, sexiness, raw danger etc - Jacko had none of this - he was plastic by comparison.

In terms of dancing - you refer to Prince outshining on his best nights but behind others on his lesser nights - perhaps by having so many tours which no doubt you, like me, have seens so many of - we get to glimpse a so called "lesser moment" (which in the eyes of others could well be seen as a highlight - e.g. noodling at the piano). It is far easier to have a perception of fewer lesser moments when you've probably only done 2 or 3 (Bad, Dangerous and err...) major solo tours in your career. I never saw James Brown in his hey day so have no idea how many "lesser" nights he may have had !!

I know I'd far rather watch Prince dance (between '84 - 99) than see MJ doing the same few moves from '87 (where he did introduce the wholly unconvincing crutch grabbing to his performances) to '99.

Jacko was probably the greater technical dancer but his videos and performances (with a troupe of 20 doing exactly the same moves behind him for much of the time) centred on this as this was what he had - they could hardly show him playing various instruments either as part of the band or soloing in the spotlight, could they ? So when the hype is focused on one aspect, it naturally projects a greater sense of being THAT at that.

For me Prince's dancing was more raw and real and cool; more varied, sexier, funnier -yep, prefer his dancing any day !

[Edited 6/11/17 7:58am]

[Edited 6/11/17 9:47am]

Purplebflogirl said:

10+ name another musician who can play 10 instruments let alone 20+

But we all have had threads suggesting that many of these instruments are similar and there were really only 6

.

1. Vocals (Lead and Backing)

2. Guitars (Lead, Rhythm, Acoustic, Classical,two headed, Lutes, Ouds)

3. Keys (Pianos, Organs, Harpsichords etc)

4. Bass (Upright and guitared)

5. Drums (Probably includes all percussion instruments too)

6. Synthesisers, drum machines, organs, anything that produces electric sound

.

Still find an artist who does all that. Most bands will have at most a guy who can sing and play guitars and bass, or sing and play keys, or sing and drum etc. I know giving 8s and 9s rather than all 10s would put me off with some people, but still he would be the only artist to get above 8 for everything.

.

Take MJ

.

Singing - 9/10 Beautiful and warm voice, a true asset, but Prince was better. Adult Michael and Kid Michael still worked though and he had a great baritone and falsetto, also he had a lot of warmth in his vocals and yet could also growl his vocals later (1991 -) as well.

Guitar Playing (Lead) 3 (He holds one on Music and Me and I suspect he knows a few chords)

Guitar Playing Rhythm 3 (Again this is Tito and maybe Jermaine/Randy territory)

Piano/Keys 5 - He has played them sometimes and uses it in composing, but Rachmanioff or Prince he ain't

Bass - 1 (Never seen him with one, Jermaine played it in J5 days, MJ hired other cats, along with guitarists, keyboards and drummers)

Drums - 4 Stories abound he played them sometimes for fun and that he taught Bubbles, not sure how true so I will give him a 4 rather than a 1.

Songwriting Melody - 7 - His musical skills were not quite as great as his words .

Songwriting lyrics - 10 - No contest, he wrote Billie Jean, Smooth Criminal, The way you make me feel, In the closet, Who is it and Break of Dawn, he was an INCREDIBLE songwriter.

Onstage Charisma - 9 I took a mark as he was great on stage, but his last tours and performances were rehearsed and preset and had very little variety. Also hsi band stuck to the music, never improvisedor mixed it up like Prince,every Prince show was different, but MJ's concerts were virtually all the same on the later tours. Still MJ in front of you was awe inspiring.

Dancing (Can assume anytime after 1982) 10/10 - He did the moonwalk, the lean, robot dancing and everything else under the sun, the great dancer of all time. Michael Jackson was dance.

Production 8 - MJ was not Prince, but he gave us We are the World, produced a lot of his own later work, his brothers (Jacksons and Rebbie's hit Centipede) and satellite acts like 3T. Michael was at home in the studio and knew his way around.

.

Total 69/110 = 63% Good but well below Prince. Some of you may want to do another artist just to prove how far in front Prince was (Maybe Stevie or David Bowie?)

RJOrion said:

Namelessfan said:

RJOrion said:

@Adorecream, your detailed ratings and accompanying explanations that you are prone to posting, are almost always asinine and uninformed...no disrespect...

This reply is unbelievably mean! Of course no one has to agree with it but someone has put a lot of thought and time into a post at least honor their effort. And saying you need no disrespect after stating personal insults is oxymoronic. Sincerely, Mrs Asanine.

Thanks, I could not say it better myself

RJOrion said:

@Adorecream and his internet bodyguard... i have engaged in lighthearted, sarcastic, back and forth banter, with this Adorecream character for awhile now...there is no ill will (at least not on my part), its more like barbershop shit talking...so chill with the thin skinned touch-screen (or mouse pad)... [Edited 6/12/17 6:52am]

Mea culpa!

Too many years of breaking up fights between my kids. Still, I am honored to be an internet bodyguard - it's so much more glamorous than....Mom.

Sincerely, Mrs Thin-skinned.

Namelessfan said:

Interesting question and I'd have to think about that... but for singing I'd definitely not give him a 10. He wasn't always completely in tune live and in some registers I think he was to nasal sometimes. Ok, let's say for technical singing - if you tke sheer boldness and creativity with harmonies etc., it's a 10.

Singing: 9 (great range)

Guitar Playing (Rhythm): 7.5 (from what I gather he was not great at holding a rhythm over time. he would speed up or slow down. But as Wendy said even when he messed up it was right)

Guitar Playing (Lead): 10 (clearly very excellent across multiple styles)

Piano/Keyboard Playing: 9.5

Bass Playing: 7.5 he just did not do it as much

Drum Playing: 7 (same as rhythm guitar. i think most of both had to do with being the boss)

Songwriting (Melody): 9 (as Bobby said he writes beautiful ones)

Songwriting (Lyrics): 8 (sometimes amazing depth and multi-layered meanings other times cheesy rhymes...but then again he did write well over 1000... so 10)

Onstage Charisma: 10

Dancing (Assume the Year 1986): 10 (very athletic and he made it part of the show in a natural way unlike some of MJ's stage productions)

Producing: 9 himself 8 others.

soladeo1 said:

jon bream called him the greatest all around pop star ever, that's right. Not the best in any one area but so good in so many that no one really comes close in my opinion.