I was thinking about how people take too literally Prince's feeling of abandonment by his mother and assume the worst about her as a person and their relationship.

I feel like defending his mother with some what-ifs...Now, keep in mind I have avoided reading books on the subject, so feel free to correct me if I get some facts wrong.

First--what books have been implying or stating....

My understanding was that Prince's mom and dad divorced when he was nine after mom and dad fought a ton and at least one violent incident happened when John suspected her of adultery. She eventuallly remarried somewhat quickly afterwards to a man who provided economic stability (possibly emotional stability) but seemed strict and more than a bit superficial. It sounds like neither stepdad or mom wanted P to be a musician like his father and tried to put the gabosh on it. Prince grew tired of their strictness when it came to music (and his stepfather's possible abuse) and then ran away from home to live with dad. That didn't work out for reasons I don't entirely understand and P chose to live with family members and finally Andre Cymone's family rather than return to mom and stepdad. The assumption by most is that Mattie didn't attempt to get her son back or make compromises that allowed him to pursue music and still stay at home. She took her husband's side over her son's.

Now, here's my what-if's. What if mom and stepdad's hard anti-music stance might have been because they feared that P would lead the same isolated life his dad did. Maybe they didn't understand Prince's need to express himself through music. (P once stated in an old interview that he used to tell his stepdad everything he was doing wrong as a dad but never thought to tell him what he needed from him as a dad.) What if--Mattie figured Prince would grow out of his music obsession and move back in with his family. What if--Mattie was fearful of losing her second husband by siding with her son because she didn't know if she could provide for her kids as a single mother (especially a single African American mother in the 1960's mostly white Minneapolis). She was in a tough spot. Prince probably realized that but wished she would have been stronger and stood up for him more. Maybe Prince's workaholic ways were the result of trying to prove to mom that his life choice was the right. Maybe, it wasn't just about impressing his dad (and finding a way to connect with his dad) with his musical ability. Maybe it was also about insuring his mom that he made the right choice to pursue music.

This picture of Prince kissing his mom on the cheek. How many more exist that we don't know about. Prince kept his most treasured things a secret (Ahmir). Saying nothing about his mother and implying heartbreak over being abandoned doesn't mean he didn't love her a great deal or that he even resented her as much as Toure stated.....Prince stating in When Doves Cry that mom is never satisfied might just mean she was never satisfied when he was a kid with him being a musician. Maybe she wanted college etc.. or maybe she was unsatisfied with being poor and married to a musician who spent all his time working during the day and performing at night (and thus gravitated toward the second more traditional husband).

Maybe, when Prince says dad was too bold and mom was never satisfied, maybe all he was indicating was what they stated about each other. Father thinks mom is never satisfied because she wants him to be at home more and providng better for the family. Mother thinks father is too bold for thinking he can become a famous musician. I wonder how many other families struggle when the patriarch has ambitions like that.

[Edited 6/4/17 18:32pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 18:38pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 18:43pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 18:50pm]

I don't know how to delete this second post which I didn't intend to post..

[Edited 6/4/17 18:41pm]

I'm sure there are more to the family dynamics than is known publically. However, when a parent chooses a step-parent over their child, or if a child feels abandoned by a parent at that young of an age, it impacts that child throughout their life. They have a difficult time trusting others, they learn to let go of people easily, they learn to depend upon themselves and find it difficult to depend upon others to be there for them, and they don't tend to let people get too close to them. Sound like anyone we know? A child who has an abusive parent or step-parent, statistically blame the non-abusive parent more for not protecting them. It has been reported that the step-father locked Prince in a closet, in his room, and was abusive towards Prince. I'm sure Prince was a difficult child to care for, as intelligent and self-reliant as he was he probably questioned their authority a lot. But that does not mean he would not blame his mom for not sticking up for him.

And it is possible they didn't want him going into music because they thought they would be protecting him somehow from that lifestyle, but for Prince, someone who lived, ate, breathed music, stopping that expression of himself, would almost be like denying him as a person since it was such a huge part of his identity. Not accepting the music, would be like not accepting Prince.

When I received my Bachelor's degree, in 1997, I worked with adolescent's that had been removed from their home because of abuse or because they'd gotten in trouble with the law and were not able to be returned home. I had one girl who's mother consistently chose her boyfriend over her children. The mother was told that if she would end the relationship with the boyfriend she could get her children back. Time and time again, she chose that boyfriend. The girl was just as sweet as she could be, beautiful, talented, and could have really done some wonderful things with her life, and all she wanted was her mother to choose her and her brother, to be with her mother. I would have to go to court with her and I would see the hurt in her eyes everytime mom chose that boyfriend over her. The pain was deep and heartbreaking. It is possible that Prince believed his mother chose the step-father over him and Tyka.

Perhaps, because of that girl, or perhaps because of my own childhood, I cannot defend those actions, or those choices. That is not to say that Prince didn't love his mother. I'm sure he did, very much so. Just as I loved mine. Just as that young girl loved her mother. But it does not negate their choices or their actions.

I am not saying that Mattie didn't make some bad choices. I am just saying that Maddie (who nicknamed her adorable son, Skipper) might have still loved her son a great deal and only seemingly choose the stepdad over her son. LIke I said, you have be able to provide for your kids and economic necessity might have been a factor in her choice to side with her husband and let Prince live with a good woman like Andre's mom.. After all, women didn't work for a living as often back then and mattie had a full time job. We don't know how bad his stepdad was to him. Reports of abuse exist but no one knows their validity or severity. Locking a kid in a closet and forcing him to pick dandy lions is bad parenting, but I have heard of much worse. And remember P ran away and refused to return. There were no courts involved telling this woman that she would have to leave an abusive husband to regain her son.

I do however agree with everything you said for the most part. Prince abandoning music would have been like abandoning himself. And his mother should have made compromises, stood up to her husband (protecting her son) and supported his dream better. She shouldn't have assumed he would be like John (he was, but not in all ways obviously)

benni said:

I'm sure there are more to the family dynamics than is known publically. However, when a parent chooses a step-parent over their child, or if a child feels abandoned by a parent at that young of an age, it impacts that child throughout their life. They have a difficult time trusting others, they learn to let go of people easily, they learn to depend upon themselves and find it difficult to depend upon others to be there for them, and they don't tend to let people get too close to them. Sound like anyone we know? A child who has an abusive parent or step-parent, statistically blame the non-abusive parent more for not protecting them. It has been reported that the step-father locked Prince in a closet, in his room, and was abusive towards Prince. I'm sure Prince was a difficult child to care for, as intelligent and self-reliant as he was he probably questioned their authority a lot. But that does not mean he would not blame his mom for not sticking up for him.

And it is possible they didn't want him going into music because they thought they would be protecting him somehow from that lifestyle, but for Prince, someone who lived, ate, breathed music, stopping that expression of himself, would almost be like denying him as a person since it was such a huge part of his identity. Not accepting the music, would be like not accepting Prince.

When I received my Bachelor's degree, in 1997, I worked with adolescent's that had been removed from their home because of abuse or because they'd gotten in trouble with the law and were not able to be returned home. I had one girl who's mother consistently chose her boyfriend over her children. The mother was told that if she would end the relationship with the boyfriend she could get her children back. Time and time again, she chose that boyfriend. The girl was just as sweet as she could be, beautiful, talented, and could have really done some wonderful things with her life, and all she wanted was her mother to choose her and her brother, to be with her mother. I would have to go to court with her and I would see the hurt in her eyes everytime mom chose that boyfriend over her. The pain was deep and heartbreaking. It is possible that Prince believed his mother chose the step-father over him and Tyka.

Perhaps, because of that girl, or perhaps because of my own childhood, I cannot defend those actions, or those choices. That is not to say that Prince didn't love his mother. I'm sure he did, very much so. Just as I loved mine. Just as that young girl loved her mother. But it does not negate their choices or their actions.

it's not for us to understand... fams take it too far... not their business to know.

purplerabbithole said:

and you are here to what? help us understand?


.

[Edited 6/4/17 20:05pm]

everything written about this relationship has been speculation. All I did was come up with what if scenarios to make a point that we don't know know entirely what happened and that maybe his mother has gotten a bit of a bad rap unfairly.

the people i was talking about were writers, not the family members or those really in the know. So no need for the rudeness.

rdhull said:

purplerabbithole said:

Prnce and his mother...maybe people really dont understand that relationship

and you are here to what? help us understand?


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[Edited 6/4/17 20:05pm]

no its not our business to know, but the info is already out there in tidbits and snippets. The reality is that Prince was a public figure whose life,as much he tried to protect it, will be scrutinized. all I am saying with my 'what ifs' and "maybe's" is that maybe writers have been too hard on Mattie Shaw because she too has a side, she too might have been a bit of victim, she too might be complicated as Prince was.

Fams are not invading his privacy more than the whole myriad of professional writers who do it constantly and without much love or respect in their hearts.

feeluupp said:

it's not for us to understand... fams take it too far... not their business to know.

I wasnt rude. I asked a question. You're rude in assuming we dont have our own understanding of their relation,

purplerabbithole said:

everything written about this relationship has been speculation. All I did was come up with what if scenarios to make a point that we don't know know entirely what happened and that maybe his mother has gotten a bit of a bad rap unfairly.

the people i was talking about were writers, not the family members or those really in the know. So no need for the rudeness.

rdhull said:

purplerabbithole said:

and you are here to what? help us understand?


.

[Edited 6/4/17 20:05pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 20:56pm]

I am not here to make anyone understand because I don't know any more than anyone else. I just know the way she is written about and I was theorizing out loud. Why take offense to that as if I was being presumptious? I was talking about writers and the most commonly held beliefs. Excuse me if I don't know what your understanding or beliefs are.

as for the subtle side eye, I wasn't doing that. I was theorizng out loud about how maybe people (being writer's) notions that Prince's mother abandoned him was perhaps a bit unfair to Mattie because it didn't (possibly) take into account her predicament. In no way, did I imply that Mattie was a lesser person because I stated that maybe she might have had challenges in life. I am a single mother. My husband left me after I had been a stay-at-home mother for 5 years. My teacher license had expired and it was out of state. I had no other skills or recent credentials. But I was lucky because my ex made good money and his child support was about half the income I needed to survive and care for my two kids. Without it however, with the teacher's aide job I was able to obtain, I might have had to give up custody to him in order for them to be cared for and go to decent schools etc. I know there are a lot of single mothers who work two jobs and take care of their kids like they are supposed, but not all of us are that strong and its obviously not ideal to be away from your kids for long periods of time or for them to have to have less than the best education due to money restraints. Single motherhood is a challenge in many many ways and perhaps it can lead to desperate decisions.

rdhull said:

I wasnt rude. I asked a question. You're rude in assuming we dont have our own understanding of their relation, or if we couldnt give a damn about the relationship, or whatever. And tbh, your slick side eyeing his mother disguised not so subtly as fake rationilization.

purplerabbithole said:

everything written about this relationship has been speculation. All I did was come up with what if scenarios to make a point that we don't know know entirely what happened and that maybe his mother has gotten a bit of a bad rap unfairly.

the people i was talking about were writers, not the family members or those really in the know. So no need for the rudeness.

[Edited 6/4/17 20:36pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 20:38pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 21:03pm]

I don't know. It just seems so personal and something that's not not right to be discussing.

purplerabbithole said:

I am not here to make anyone understand because I don't know any more than anyone else. I just know the way she is written about and I was theorizing out loud. Why take offense to that?

rdhull said:

I wasnt rude. I asked a question. You're rude in assuming we dont have our own understanding of their relation, or if we couldnt give a damn about the relationship, or whatever. And tbh, your slick side eyeing his mother disguised not so subtly as fake rationilization.

[Edited 6/4/17 20:36pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 20:38pm]

rdhull said:

I don't know. It just seems so personal and something that's not not right to be discussing.

purplerabbithole said:

I am not here to make anyone understand because I don't know any more than anyone else. I just know the way she is written about and I was theorizing out loud. Why take offense to that?

Interesting since everything from his sexuality, his appearance (including his wearing makeup; him going bald; his weight; his pubic hair, his hair, the condition of his scalp) if he’s a metrosexual, his mortality(way before his death), his alleged affair with Manuela while he was married to Mayte, his mental health/mental state, his drug “addiction”/dependency, his health, his sex life (including discussions of his performance level) and sex drive, his religious beliefs, his relationship with his father, stepfather, and siblings; have all been discussed.... so just not really understanding what makes this topic any more personal

[Edited 6/5/17 0:28am]

Asenath0607 said:

rdhull said:

I don't know. It just seems so personal and something that's not not right to be discussing.

Interesting since everything from his sexuality, his appearance (including his wearing makeup; him going bald; his weight; his pubic hair, his hair, the condition of his scalp) if he’s a metrosexual, his mortality(way before his death), his alleged affair with Manuela while he was married to Mayte, his mental health/mental state, his drug “addiction”/dependency, his health, his sex life (including discussions of his performance level) and sex drive, his religious beliefs, his relationship with his father, stepfather, and siblings; have all been discussed.... so just not really understanding what makes this topic any more personal

[Edited 6/5/17 0:28am]

Because you are now talking about a man's mother. That alone in certain circles would get your ass whooped in person. The man happens to be Prince and it's really just not a good time for that.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Asenath0607 said:

Interesting since everything from his sexuality, his appearance (including his wearing makeup; him going bald; his weight; his pubic hair, his hair, the condition of his scalp) if he’s a metrosexual, his mortality(way before his death), his alleged affair with Manuela while he was married to Mayte, his mental health/mental state, his drug “addiction”/dependency, his health, his sex life (including discussions of his performance level) and sex drive, his religious beliefs, his relationship with his father, stepfather, and siblings; have all been discussed.... so just not really understanding what makes this topic any more personal

[Edited 6/5/17 0:28am]

Because you are now talking about a man's mother. That alone in certain circles would get your ass whooped in person. The man happens to be Prince and it's really just not a good time for that.

Thank you. Some people here just have no home training. This place is becoming a cesspool.

purplerabbithole said:

everything written about this relationship has been speculation. All I did was come up with what if scenarios to make a point that we don't know know entirely what happened and that maybe his mother has gotten a bit of a bad rap unfairly.

the people i was talking about were writers, not the family members or those really in the know. So no need for the rudeness.

rdhull said:

purplerabbithole said:

and you are here to what? help us understand?


.

In other words, you speculated some more. What makes your speculation more valuable or "right" than anyone else's?

feeluupp said:

His mother was married 3 times and did not raise Prince's older brother either. (Alfred) She married her 1st husband and lived in Kansas City, they got divorced and took Alfred back to MN with her, she then brought Alfred back to KC to his father and grandparents to raise....

.

It has also been said that Prince & Tyka once ran away and nobody cared to even look for them, or know they were gone.

[Edited 6/5/17 12:10pm]

PennyPurple said:

It has also been said

stop gossiping here please

rdhull said:

PennyPurple said:

It has also been said

stop gossiping here please

Estranged relationship but what do i know,I never saw Prince and his mum in the same room.

rdhull said:

Laydown said:

I got the impression that it was his father's attention and love he craved all of his life. The parent who kicked him out of the house at, what, 13 ... He was still talking about his father during the P + A M tour. I had a half-sister, now deceased, whose biological father last saw her at the age of 8 - no contact with her at all. We shared a mother, and my father (her stepdad) raised her, paid for everything for her (including multiple marriages), and she still idolized the father who abandoned her.

Children are the collateral damage when their parents break down in any way. It is very sad.

Maybe Prince's Mother did not make the best decisions for herself and her children, but even Prince said himself when speaking of his parents "They did the best they could." You have to understand, back then, there weren't resources readily available to single mother's, not like we have now. I know that one of Prince's charities was helping the single mother's in his community, so that speaks in volumes that he cared.

.

My own Mother was a "single" mother of two children, and even though she had her faults, I will always love her and respect her for raising us, and taking care of us, and loving us, and I'm sure Prince felt the same way about his Mom and Dad.

Thanks-- that is all I was saying. It sounds like according to someone else on this thread that Mattie struggled raising Alfred. Maybe she was a bit wild and made mistakes but that doesn't mean being a single mother was easy for her especially back then.

People on this site are willing to infer that Prince might have been murdered (not indirectly by drug dealers who sell kill pills either but by people who knew him) but we can't discuss the fact that his mother was at one time a single mother who struggled.

cloveringold85 said:

Maybe Prince's Mother did not make the best decisions for herself and her children, but even Prince said himself when speaking of his parents "They did the best they could." You have to understand, back then, there weren't resources readily available to single mother's, not like we have now. I know that one of Prince's charities was helping the single mother's in his community, so that speaks in volumes that he cared.

.

My own Mother was a "single" mother of two children, and even though she had her faults, I will always love her and respect her for raising us, and taking care of us, and loving us, and I'm sure Prince felt the same way about his Mom and Dad.

[Edited 6/6/17 17:12pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Thanks-- that is all I was saying. It sounds like according to someone else on this thread that Mattie struggled raising Alfred. Maybe she was a bit wild and made mistakes but that doesn't mean being a single mother was easy for her especially back then.

People on this site are willing to infer that Prince might have been murdered (not indirectly by drug dealers who sell kill pills either but by people who knew him) but we can't discuss the fact that his mother was at one time a single mother who struggled.

cloveringold85 said:

Maybe Prince's Mother did not make the best decisions for herself and her children, but even Prince said himself when speaking of his parents "They did the best they could." You have to understand, back then, there weren't resources readily available to single mother's, not like we have now. I know that one of Prince's charities was helping the single mother's in his community, so that speaks in volumes that he cared.

.

My own Mother was a "single" mother of two children, and even though she had her faults, I will always love her and respect her for raising us, and taking care of us, and loving us, and I'm sure Prince felt the same way about his Mom and Dad.

[Edited 6/6/17 17:12pm]

.

This subject hits close to home for me, because I am a child from a broken home, so I feel I had that connection to Prince (from afar). Some people just don't have the natural ability to raise children, and Mattie was obviously struggling with raising hers and then throw in the trials and tribulations that life brings, and another marriage, more problems, and etc., It's not easy being a single parent, as you said in your other post.

.

I guess I look at this situation with more compassion and empathy because I saw my own Mother struggle with raising two children all on her own, with no help from my Father, and I have the utmost respect for her (she has passed), and I always will.

.

Prince's Mom, Mattie seemed to live a good life in her later years and I'm sure she learned life's lessons and became wiser for it.

purplerabbithole said:

I am not here to make anyone understand because I don't know any more than anyone else. I just know the way she is written about and I was theorizing out loud. Why take offense to that as if I was being presumptious? I was talking about writers and the most commonly held beliefs. Excuse me if I don't know what your understanding or beliefs are.

as for the subtle side eye, I wasn't doing that. I was theorizng out loud about how maybe people (being writer's) notions that Prince's mother abandoned him was perhaps a bit unfair to Mattie because it didn't (possibly) take into account her predicament. In no way, did I imply that Mattie was a lesser person because I stated that maybe she might have had challenges in life. I am a single mother. My husband left me after I had been a stay-at-home mother for 5 years. My teacher license had expired and it was out of state. I had no other skills or recent credentials. But I was lucky because my ex made good money and his child support was about half the income I needed to survive and care for my two kids. Without it however, with the teacher's aide job I was able to obtain, I might have had to give up custody to him in order for them to be cared for and go to decent schools etc. I know there are a lot of single mothers who work two jobs and take care of their kids like they are supposed, but not all of us are that strong and its obviously not ideal to be away from your kids for long periods of time or for them to have to have less than the best education due to money restraints. Single motherhood is a challenge in many many ways and perhaps it can lead to desperate decisions.

rdhull said:

I wasnt rude. I asked a question. You're rude in assuming we dont have our own understanding of their relation, or if we couldnt give a damn about the relationship, or whatever. And tbh, your slick side eyeing his mother disguised not so subtly as fake rationilization.

[Edited 6/4/17 20:36pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 20:38pm]

[Edited 6/4/17 21:03pm]

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Purplerabbit: I understand where you are coming from. I'm sorry what your ex-husband did to you. I'm glad he was financial stable enough to provide support to your children. I have the utmost respect for single mom's because being a parent is the toughest job on earth, let alone trying to do it on your own!

We are on good terms and the kids are being taken care of. Its cool. But it was scary at first. He divorced me; he didn't just bail on his responsibilities. But the divorce was not my ideal and I was unemployed at the time.

cloveringold85 said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am not here to make anyone understand because I don't know any more than anyone else. I just know the way she is written about and I was theorizing out loud. Why take offense to that as if I was being presumptious? I was talking about writers and the most commonly held beliefs. Excuse me if I don't know what your understanding or beliefs are.

as for the subtle side eye, I wasn't doing that. I was theorizng out loud about how maybe people (being writer's) notions that Prince's mother abandoned him was perhaps a bit unfair to Mattie because it didn't (possibly) take into account her predicament. In no way, did I imply that Mattie was a lesser person because I stated that maybe she might have had challenges in life. I am a single mother. My husband left me after I had been a stay-at-home mother for 5 years. My teacher license had expired and it was out of state. I had no other skills or recent credentials. But I was lucky because my ex made good money and his child support was about half the income I needed to survive and care for my two kids. Without it however, with the teacher's aide job I was able to obtain, I might have had to give up custody to him in order for them to be cared for and go to decent schools etc. I know there are a lot of single mothers who work two jobs and take care of their kids like they are supposed, but not all of us are that strong and its obviously not ideal to be away from your kids for long periods of time or for them to have to have less than the best education due to money restraints. Single motherhood is a challenge in many many ways and perhaps it can lead to desperate decisions.

[Edited 6/4/17 21:03pm]

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Purplerabbit: I understand where you are coming from. I'm sorry what your ex-husband did to you. I'm glad he was financial stable enough to provide support to your children. I have the utmost respect for single mom's because being a parent is the toughest job on earth, let alone trying to do it on your own!

purplerabbithole said:

We are on good terms and the kids are being taken care of. Its cool. But it was scary at first. He divorced me; he didn't just bail on his responsibilities. But the divorce was not my ideal and I was unemployed at the time.

cloveringold85 said:

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Purplerabbit: I understand where you are coming from. I'm sorry what your ex-husband did to you. I'm glad he was financial stable enough to provide support to your children. I have the utmost respect for single mom's because being a parent is the toughest job on earth, let alone trying to do it on your own!

.

That is good to hear. At least he is taking care of his responsibilities on his end. At least he wasn't being a jerk about it. I do hope things are going better for you now.