rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

Which is why not one account should be definitive. Leeds isn't any more right than Baldwin. Baldwin isn't any more correct than Leeds. Leeds can say Yes men destroyed Prince and that he was lonely because no one is going to accuse him of being a yes man (being long out of the picture). Baldwin can accuse Leeds of making assumptions about Prince's 'loneliness' because he did see Prince at the end and may have left in the middle of a possible emotional crisis of Prince's but didn't catch it.

I have little time for analysis from people who weren't close to Prince, say in the last 10-15 years of his life. I would rather hear from someone like Kim Berry or band members who worked with him during that time. Prince changed a lot in the last decade. Someone who worked with him in the 80s or early 90s and then was mostly out of touch wouldn't be a good source for who Prince had become as a human being.

Exactly, I am interested in what people like Scotty have to say and the 3rd Eye Girl band. I think we are going to hear more from these people in the next few years long after the old heads are dead and gone.

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

laurarichardson said:

I agree with Scotty everybody does not need company and if Prince pushed people away or did not want to let people in at all he was deciding what sort of life he was going to live.

Remember he told a reporter from Essence magazine that he had music playing in his head 24 hours a day and sometimes what was going on in his head was more interesting to him than what was going on outside his head. He was more interested in his work than personal relationships. He worked on his music and let the relationships go to the wayside.

Music for its own sake is just a collection of sounds. What kind of lyricism can you achieve with no human interaction. Music should be an avenue, a way to connect. Creativity does not come from a vacuum. prince's interactions with individuals might have been complex, incomplete and not ideal, but if he was cutting himself off completely from others while sounds were circulating through his head than that is simply not healthy. Struggling to communicate is okay. Giving up on connection ( two sided human interaction) is not a good thing at all.

But that is what he wanted to do. In fact Jill Jones said sometimes he would get irritated with her when she wanted to go out and do other things other than play music and she could not understand what was wrong.

She said John Nelson told her she was like Deliah to his Sampson and that musicians needed their space and strenght. She said she took offense to the comment because it may it seem as if Prince only needed his music and not people. Keep in my mind this was coming from his father.

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

laurarichardson said:

But that is what he wanted to do. In fact Jill Jones said sometimes he would get irritated with her when she wanted to go out and do other things other than play music and she could not understand what was wrong.

She said John Nelson told her she was like Deliah to his Sampson and that musicians needed their space and strenght. She said she took offense to the comment because it may it seem as if Prince only needed his music and not people. Keep in my mind this was coming from his father.

His dad was so bad for him sometimes. He basically told his son that music should replace human interaction. Thank God prince failed at what his dad wanted completely. Maybe the reason Prince was a better musician/artist than his father was because he sometimes let the Deliahs in.

I believe you are correct. He had love in his life

purplerabbithole said:

as a musician myself, people annoy me, they distract me and they are too selfish. You know, it's always something they want from me no the other way around. Most musicians, committed to their crafts are like this, I heard Ray Parker tell his wife never to compete with "this" as he tapped his guitar. It's not just Prince. And it's not just musicians, artists tend to be obsessed with their arts.

Nothing wrong with being obsessed with your art, focused, needing space and isolation to create. i get all that. I don't have a ton of friends either. It is mostly my kids, my parents, some extended family and peers at work who are friendly acquantances. But Prince didn't seem to have any those basic things (other than friendly acquiantances) . I sure hope he was able to connect and bond with people even if just for fleeting moments. Artists probably live a lot in their imaginations, but human connection is still the originater of those imaginations, its still the fuel for the imagination. Even if Prince was spending a lot of his later life having fleeting moments of fun with employees, remembering aspects of his past, creating music that connects to both his spirituality and his longing...That's not all bad. But if he was barely speaking (other than to make demands and preach) and drifting off into an isolated music studio 99% of the time, then he was too isolated in my opinion.

PeteSilas, you do realize that chatting with us on here is still a form of socializing (even if it is a bit detached.) Prince wasn't a regular on any blogs either. Funny tweets don't count.

PeteSilas said:

as a musician myself, people annoy me, they distract me and they are too selfish. You know, it's always something they want from me no the other way around. Most musicians, committed to their crafts are like this, I heard Ray Parker tell his wife never to compete with "this" as he tapped his guitar. It's not just Prince. And it's not just musicians, artists tend to be obsessed with their arts.

None of that means he spent his life friendless. The lyrics are about longing, but longing for something substantative rather than empty. Besides, he dated after 2008 anyway at least three times that we know of.

Music is his avenue of expression..really that is all he is saying and it defines his place in society. But people are still needed to feel that world other wise what would there be to sing about or write about.

rogifan said:

From a 2008 interview with USA Today: https://usatoday30.usatod...ghts_N.htm

On a love song, his voice takes on yearning as he pines for the feel of a lover's lips and the move of her hips. "That's what happens with years of celibacy," says Prince, survivor of two broken marriages. "It all goes into the music." He pauses. "This time, it has to be the right person." For now, songs offer sufficient companionship. "Music to me is a life force," he says. "It's not what I do. It's what I am."

Couldn't agree more!!!

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

I think old and newer accounts of Prince are both important. life is a journey.

Oh sure as long as they provide the proper context. Speak about the time you worked with him. The Prince of 2004 was WAY different than the Prince of 1994.

Remember the Tavis Smiley interview when Prince told him about his dad's advice and training ... John (after verbally browbeating him about his inferior piano playing) basically was telling Prince never to marry or have kids because it distracts from the music, and Prince in 2009, probably after some heartbreak, was seeming to find it practical advice. Practical is overrated where artistry is concerned in my opinion. I am glad to see Prince, at least fleetingly, tried to have girlfriends. But, Its almost as if Prince was led to believe that if music wasn't somehow connected to everything he did in his life (romantic relationships, friendships, spiritual beliefs, business), that he wasn't allowed to indulge in those things.

purplerabbithole said:

laurarichardson said:

But that is what he wanted to do. In fact Jill Jones said sometimes he would get irritated with her when she wanted to go out and do other things other than play music and she could not understand what was wrong.

She said John Nelson told her she was like Deliah to his Sampson and that musicians needed their space and strenght. She said she took offense to the comment because it may it seem as if Prince only needed his music and not people. Keep in my mind this was coming from his father.

His dad was so bad for him sometimes. He basically told his son that music should replace human interaction. Thank God prince failed at what his dad wanted completely. Maybe the reason Prince was a better musician/artist than his father was because he sometimes let the Deliahs in.

if it weren't one of my obsessions, music/prince, i wouldn't be here. I sometimes post about boxing, my other obsession. Anyway, it's interesting his dad said that because I doubt his dad got as much work done being a failed, twice married, multi-father himself. People generally tend to get in the way unles you have a big stick over their heads, in my exp. Prince didn't really open up until Purple Rain when he had the power to tell a Lisa "put the motherfucking magazine down and play your part" and not have her fight back or leave. Prince did say in his now, revelatory 85' RS interview that he got really depressed over both his love life and his inability to get the musicians around him to work hard. Of course, post 85, he'd never have to beg anyone to work for him again. Women are the worst distractions for most men, they do cause a lot of problems legally, image wise, money wise for men in Prince's shoes. You know the samson/delilah myth? like most myths there is astrong kernel of truth to it. I can tell you about many of my heroes who were diminished, not augmented by women in one way or another. Prince was right not to allow his wife to call him in the studio because you know that if he allowed that, then he would have had to make further allowances.

purplerabbithole said:

Nothing wrong with being obsessed with your art, focused, needing space and isolation to create. i get all that. I don't have a ton of friends either. It is mostly my kids, my parents, some extended family and peers at work who are friendly acquantances. But Prince didn't seem to have any those basic things (other than friendly acquiantances) . I sure hope he was able to connect and bond with people even if just for fleeting moments. Artists probably live a lot in their imaginations, but human connection is still the originater of those imaginations, its still the fuel for the imagination. Even if Prince was spending a lot of his later life having fleeting moments of fun with employees, remembering aspects of his past, creating music that connects to both his spirituality and his longing...That's not all bad. But if he was barely speaking (other than to make demands and preach) and drifting off into an isolated music studio 99% of the time, then he was too isolated in my opinion.

PeteSilas, you do realize that chatting with us on here is still a form of socializing (even if it is a bit detached.) Prince wasn't a regular on any blogs either. Funny tweets don't count.

PeteSilas said:

as a musician myself, people annoy me, they distract me and they are too selfish. You know, it's always something they want from me no the other way around. Most musicians, committed to their crafts are like this, I heard Ray Parker tell his wife never to compete with "this" as he tapped his guitar. It's not just Prince. And it's not just musicians, artists tend to be obsessed with their arts.

Not disagreeing that his studio time should not be uninterrupted and should be respected. No doubt personal relationships complicate things. But you can't write if you can't relate...as Beck once wrote. The struggle to balance the two is partly what triggers the creativity. A decent father would have tried to help him balance his personal life with his professional life? I don't fault PRince for wanting time to himself. That is not my point. Not all women wanted to breath down their men's necks. Mayte accepting that Prince would call her and not the other way around may sound sexist to some, but it also might be that she was smart enough to know that PRince had a solitary side that he used to let his musical imagination wonder. As long as this is understood, everything's cool. The most successful artistic marriage that I think of has been the one between Daniel day-lewis and Rebecca Miller. DDL is the most devoted method actor in history. Rebecca Miller is the daughter of Arthur Miller and a workaholic writer/director of independent films (however, her passion for writing as made staying home with kids quite feasable..she has described the first three hours of every day on writing, and the rest (when daniel is working and she is home)on hanging with the kids. . They take turns being the bread winner but when its Daniel's turn to devote himself fully to film acting, she leaves him the fuck alone and so do his three kids. These two have been married for 21 years and according to every person who knows him he is a loving father. I want to add that DDL's acting rehab moments (breaks from acting) were always there even prior to marriage. He has a myriad of interests and passions (woodworking, motorcyles, painting, boxing, cycling, writing (his dad was a poet laureate), etc.) a true renaissance man.

Where is the inspiration going to come from if Prince spent his whole life like a musical monk? Just God? Back to DDL (who is bright man and fully immersed in his art --new movie coming out next year btw), he once said that you can't garner inspiration by jumping from film set to film set. You have to let the fields lay fallow so something else can be grown in them. He admitted that after acting in a film he often felt emotionally depleted and even depressed so he needed time to return to the world, to re-invest in his personal relationshps etc. I am not saying Prince should have taken long ass breaks like DDL, but musical rehab wasn't always a bad thing especially as he got older. Most people think Prince's best work was in the 80's when he was working constantly.. True. but he also wasn't shying away from romantic relationships...Denise, Susannah etc..and for a brief period he was allowing his musicians to have imput.

As for papa Nelson, his number of marriages is not really the point. Did he open up to his wives and children?--it doesnt sound like it to me. Prince didn't have children probably because he physically wasn't able to (or at least lost hope after pfeiffer syndrome and 1 to 2 miscarriages.)

PeteSilas said:

if it weren't one of my obsessions, music/prince, i wouldn't be here. I sometimes post about boxing, my other obsession. Anyway, it's interesting his dad said that because I doubt his dad got as much work done being a failed, twice married, multi-father himself. People generally tend to get in the way unles you have a big stick over their heads, in my exp. Prince didn't really open up until Purple Rain when he had the power to tell a Lisa "put the motherfucking magazine down and play your part" and not have her fight back or leave. Prince did say in his now, revelatory 85' RS interview that he got really depressed over both his love life and his inability to get the musicians around him to work hard. Of course, post 85, he'd never have to beg anyone to work for him again. Women are the worst distractions for most men, they do cause a lot of problems legally, image wise, money wise for men in Prince's shoes. You know the samson/delilah myth? like most myths there is astrong kernel of truth to it. I can tell you about many of my heroes who were diminished, not augmented by women in one way or another. Prince was right not to allow his wife to call him in the studio because you know that if he allowed that, then he would have had to make further allowances.

purplerabbithole said:

Nothing wrong with being obsessed with your art, focused, needing space and isolation to create. i get all that. I don't have a ton of friends either. It is mostly my kids, my parents, some extended family and peers at work who are friendly acquantances. But Prince didn't seem to have any those basic things (other than friendly acquiantances) . I sure hope he was able to connect and bond with people even if just for fleeting moments. Artists probably live a lot in their imaginations, but human connection is still the originater of those imaginations, its still the fuel for the imagination. Even if Prince was spending a lot of his later life having fleeting moments of fun with employees, remembering aspects of his past, creating music that connects to both his spirituality and his longing...That's not all bad. But if he was barely speaking (other than to make demands and preach) and drifting off into an isolated music studio 99% of the time, then he was too isolated in my opinion.

PeteSilas, you do realize that chatting with us on here is still a form of socializing (even if it is a bit detached.) Prince wasn't a regular on any blogs either. Funny tweets don't count.

[Edited 6/6/17 16:57pm]

I think Prince did try to have families, twice. I think the women involved weren't right for him, or vice versa. You hear things about both but we only really know so much. We do know that Prince was ready to seriously start a family during the musicology era, he mentioned that it would be his last tour and maybe it would have been if things had worked out. He must have felt after the second marriage with no kids that it just wasn't meant for him.

some artists need people more than others, james baldwin needed total isolation with 12 hours of partying thrown in. And sure as a writer you need themes but those can really come from anywhere, fantasies, history, myth as well as life. Composition? i don't know if you need to go through anything to compose music, i don't know, never thought about it.

purplerabbithole said:

Not disagreeing that his studio time should not be uninterrupted and should be respected. No doubt personal relationships complicate things. But you can't write if you can't relate...as Beck once wrote. The struggle to balance the two is partly what triggers the creativity. A decent father would have tried to help him balance his personal life with his professional life? I don't fault PRince for wanting time to himself. That is not my point. Not all women wanted to breath down their men's necks. Mayte accepting that Prince would call her and not the other way around may sound sexist to some, but it also might be that she was smart enough to know that PRince had a solitary side that he used to let his musical imagination wonder. As long as this is understood, everything's cool. The most successful artistic marriage that I think of has been the one between Daniel day-lewis and Rebecca Miller. DDL is the most devoted method actor in history. Rebecca Miller is the daughter of Arthur Miller and a workaholic writer/director of independent films (however, her passion for writing as made staying home with kids quite feasable..she has described the first three hours of every day on writing, and the rest (when daniel is working and she is home)on hanging with the kids. . They take turns being the bread winner but when its Daniel's turn to devote himself fully to film acting, she leaves him the fuck alone and so do his three kids. These two have been married for 21 years and according to every person who knows him he is a loving father.

Where is the inspiration going to come from if Prince spent his whole life like a musical monk? Just God? Back to DDL (who is bright man and fully immersed in his art --new movie coming out next year btw), he once said that you can't garner inspiration by jumping from film set to film set. You have to let the fields lay fallow so something else can be grown in them. He admitted that after acting in a film he often felt emotionally depleted and even depressed so he needed time to return to the world, to re-invest in his personal relationshps etc. I am not saying Prince should have taken long ass breaks like DDL, but musical rehab wasn't always a bad thing especially as he got older. Most people think Prince's best work was in the 80's when he was working constantly.. True. but he also wasn't shying away from romantic relationships...Denise, Susannah etc..and for a brief period he was allowing his musicians to have imput.

As for papa Nelson, his number of marriages is not really the point. Did he open up to his wives and children?--it doesnt sound like it to me. Prince didn't have children probably because he physically wasn't able to (or at least lost hope after pfeiffer syndrome and 1 to 2 miscarriages.)

PeteSilas said:

if it weren't one of my obsessions, music/prince, i wouldn't be here. I sometimes post about boxing, my other obsession. Anyway, it's interesting his dad said that because I doubt his dad got as much work done being a failed, twice married, multi-father himself. People generally tend to get in the way unles you have a big stick over their heads, in my exp. Prince didn't really open up until Purple Rain when he had the power to tell a Lisa "put the motherfucking magazine down and play your part" and not have her fight back or leave. Prince did say in his now, revelatory 85' RS interview that he got really depressed over both his love life and his inability to get the musicians around him to work hard. Of course, post 85, he'd never have to beg anyone to work for him again. Women are the worst distractions for most men, they do cause a lot of problems legally, image wise, money wise for men in Prince's shoes. You know the samson/delilah myth? like most myths there is astrong kernel of truth to it. I can tell you about many of my heroes who were diminished, not augmented by women in one way or another. Prince was right not to allow his wife to call him in the studio because you know that if he allowed that, then he would have had to make further allowances.

sure inspiration can come from myth, history and fantasy. But I think it also needs to come a bit from life. I added more to my post which references DDL. Day-lewis didn't start taking acting breaks once he got married. He was always like that. He has a myriad of passions..boxing, painting, writing (his dad was a poet laureate), workworking, shoemaking, etc. Those all probably inspire his acting as well. But I don't know if myth, history and fantasy are enough. Other wise, I would imagine songwriting would sound like a child's version of myth, history and fantasy.

As for composition, I am not a musician. but wouldn't you need to know how the blues feel to compose and especially perform believably the blues. Other wise, i would think it was just going to sound derivative.

PeteSilas said:

I think Prince did try to have families, twice. I think the women involved weren't right for him, or vice versa. You hear things about both but we only really know so much. We do know that Prince was ready to seriously start a family during the musicology era, he mentioned that it would be his last tour and maybe it would have been if things had worked out. He must have felt after the second marriage with no kids that it just wasn't meant for him.

some artists need people more than others, james baldwin needed total isolation with 12 hours of partying thrown in. And sure as a writer you need themes but those can really come from anywhere, fantasies, history, myth as well as life. Composition? i don't know if you need to go through anything to compose music, i don't know, never thought about it.

purplerabbithole said:

Not disagreeing that his studio time should not be uninterrupted and should be respected. No doubt personal relationships complicate things. But you can't write if you can't relate...as Beck once wrote. The struggle to balance the two is partly what triggers the creativity. A decent father would have tried to help him balance his personal life with his professional life? I don't fault PRince for wanting time to himself. That is not my point. Not all women wanted to breath down their men's necks. Mayte accepting that Prince would call her and not the other way around may sound sexist to some, but it also might be that she was smart enough to know that PRince had a solitary side that he used to let his musical imagination wonder. As long as this is understood, everything's cool. The most successful artistic marriage that I think of has been the one between Daniel day-lewis and Rebecca Miller. DDL is the most devoted method actor in history. Rebecca Miller is the daughter of Arthur Miller and a workaholic writer/director of independent films (however, her passion for writing as made staying home with kids quite feasable..she has described the first three hours of every day on writing, and the rest (when daniel is working and she is home)on hanging with the kids. . They take turns being the bread winner but when its Daniel's turn to devote himself fully to film acting, she leaves him the fuck alone and so do his three kids. These two have been married for 21 years and according to every person who knows him he is a loving father.

Where is the inspiration going to come from if Prince spent his whole life like a musical monk? Just God? Back to DDL (who is bright man and fully immersed in his art --new movie coming out next year btw), he once said that you can't garner inspiration by jumping from film set to film set. You have to let the fields lay fallow so something else can be grown in them. He admitted that after acting in a film he often felt emotionally depleted and even depressed so he needed time to return to the world, to re-invest in his personal relationshps etc. I am not saying Prince should have taken long ass breaks like DDL, but musical rehab wasn't always a bad thing especially as he got older. Most people think Prince's best work was in the 80's when he was working constantly.. True. but he also wasn't shying away from romantic relationships...Denise, Susannah etc..and for a brief period he was allowing his musicians to have imput.

As for papa Nelson, his number of marriages is not really the point. Did he open up to his wives and children?--it doesnt sound like it to me. Prince didn't have children probably because he physically wasn't able to (or at least lost hope after pfeiffer syndrome and 1 to 2 miscarriages.)

sure, i would think so, whether you need lots of life exp to create quality music, i don't know. I guess so, either way, most of us, myself included have enough heartbreak and life lessons without seeking it out.

purplerabbithole said:

sure inspiration can come from myth, history and fantasy. But I think it also needs to come a bit from life. I added more to my post which references DDL. Day-lewis didn't start taking acting breaks once he got married. He was always like that. He has a myriad of passions..boxing, painting, writing (his dad was a poet laureate), workworking, shoemaking, etc. Those all probably inspire his acting as well. But I don't know if myth, history and fantasy are enough. Other wise, I would imagine songwriting would sound like a child's version of myth, history and fantasy.

As for composition, I am not a musician. but wouldn't you need to know how the blues feel to compose and especially perform believably the blues. Other wise, i would think it was just going to sound derivative.

PeteSilas said:

I think Prince did try to have families, twice. I think the women involved weren't right for him, or vice versa. You hear things about both but we only really know so much. We do know that Prince was ready to seriously start a family during the musicology era, he mentioned that it would be his last tour and maybe it would have been if things had worked out. He must have felt after the second marriage with no kids that it just wasn't meant for him.

some artists need people more than others, james baldwin needed total isolation with 12 hours of partying thrown in. And sure as a writer you need themes but those can really come from anywhere, fantasies, history, myth as well as life. Composition? i don't know if you need to go through anything to compose music, i don't know, never thought about it.

PeteSilas said:

anyway, scottie i right, he wasn't a friend of Prince's, he was a partner, employee. Friend is a misused term especially in this modern era when people have thousands of "friends" on social media. Prince sounded like he was asking "are you someone who means me well or not" rather than was he a friend, he obviously thought scottie was doing something wrong which was in his capability and know how to do right. Prince was probably just being Prince, he loved dressing people down, i'd have loved for him to do that to me, i'd probably laugh all the way through it.

Scottie said he and P would argue about the quad sound - best sound quality in the middle vs the sound quality for the people way out on the fringes. I believe that was why P asked him if he was "messing around with the sound" in Australia. He also couldn't have been more clear about how people project their own feelings onto Prince and then say that's what he's feeling. P wasn't abjectly lonely, he didn't purposefully push people away because he had abandonment issues, nor was he overtly dickish to people. When he'd had enough, he said "Thanks" without getting into it with them and Scottie said he didn't want to be on the receiving end of that so he'd leave first. I agree with you, PeteSilas, there are many, many of us who just don't think our mission in life is to change ourselves, mold ourselves or alter ourselves in any way to tolerate someone else being around. Either they meet us where we are, or not at all. We like the peace and can "socialize" quite well when it's called for.

I see your point but don't we all project to some extent. The truth is that both Leeds and Baldwin personally knew Prince. They are interpretiing behavior they saw first hand. Besides, Prince's life wasn't an easy one. He wasn't just a quirky guy who people liked but couldn't get close to because they didn't understand him. To say that he didn't know if Prince had any friends (really how hard is it to make at least a casual friend?), its kind of big statement. Pete might be projecting as well (Prince and he were just geeks who worked together and were generally respectful but not particulary close or shared much in common so therefore all P's relationships must be the same.) Didn't Pete also state that Prince's white was often everyone else's black. His assertion that Prince couldn't have been lonely and your assertion that Prince oculdn't have had abandonment issues (come on, do you know anything about the dude's childhood? It would be more surprising if he didn't have some abandonment issues.) it is projecting as well but to defend individualists. But I would argue that eccentrics, individualists, and odd balls make friends too or at least have families that love them.

Misslink88 said:

PeteSilas said:

anyway, scottie i right, he wasn't a friend of Prince's, he was a partner, employee. Friend is a misused term especially in this modern era when people have thousands of "friends" on social media. Prince sounded like he was asking "are you someone who means me well or not" rather than was he a friend, he obviously thought scottie was doing something wrong which was in his capability and know how to do right. Prince was probably just being Prince, he loved dressing people down, i'd have loved for him to do that to me, i'd probably laugh all the way through it.

Scottie said he and P would argue about the quad sound - best sound quality in the middle vs the sound quality for the people way out on the fringes. I believe that was why P asked him if he was "messing around with the sound" in Australia. He also couldn't have been more clear about how people project their own feelings onto Prince and then say that's what he's feeling. P wasn't abjectly lonely, he didn't purposefully push people away because he had abandonment issues, nor was he overtly dickish to people. When he'd had enough, he said "Thanks" without getting into it with them and Scottie said he didn't want to be on the receiving end of that so he'd leave first. I agree with you, PeteSilas, there are many, many of us who just don't think our mission in life is to change ourselves, mold ourselves or alter ourselves in any way to tolerate someone else being around. Either they meet us where we are, or not at all. We like the peace and can "socialize" quite well when it's called for.

[Edited 6/6/17 17:50pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I see your point but don't we all project to some extent. The truth is that both Leeds and Baldwin personally knew Prince. They are interpretiing behavior they saw first hand. Besides, Prince's life wasn't an easy one. He wasn't just a quirky guy who people liked but couldn't get close to because they didn't understand him. To say that he didn't know if Prince had any friends (really how hard is it to make at least a casual friend?), its kind of big statement. Pete might be projecting as well (Prince and he were just geeks who worked together and were generally respectful but not particulary close or shared much in common so therefore all P's relationships must be the same.) Didn't Pete also state that Prince's white was often everyone else's black. His assertion that Prince couldn't have been lonely and your assertion that Prince oculdn't have had abandonment issues (come on, do you know anything about the dude's childhood? It would be more surprising if he didn't have some abandonment issues.) it is projecting as well but to defend individualists. But I would argue that eccentrics, individualists, and odd balls make friends too or at least have families that love them.

Misslink88 said:

Scottie said he and P would argue about the quad sound - best sound quality in the middle vs the sound quality for the people way out on the fringes. I believe that was why P asked him if he was "messing around with the sound" in Australia. He also couldn't have been more clear about how people project their own feelings onto Prince and then say that's what he's feeling. P wasn't abjectly lonely, he didn't purposefully push people away because he had abandonment issues, nor was he overtly dickish to people. When he'd had enough, he said "Thanks" without getting into it with them and Scottie said he didn't want to be on the receiving end of that so he'd leave first. I agree with you, PeteSilas, there are many, many of us who just don't think our mission in life is to change ourselves, mold ourselves or alter ourselves in any way to tolerate someone else being around. Either they meet us where we are, or not at all. We like the peace and can "socialize" quite well when it's called for.

[Edited 6/6/17 17:50pm]

Leeds hadn't seen him in years so what he observed was from ages ago. Scottie was with him from the late 90's until February of 2016. Scottie didn't say P had no friends, P said it to Scottie and I didn't get the impression it was in a pitiful way, but more in a way of the fame "people want things from me"...you know, where you can't tell if people want you for you or for what you can do for them. And he'd already encountered more than his fair share of those kinds of people. It was also Scottie who said P's black was someone else's white in reference to not having people around. He said if P were to return to PP today, the first two words out of his mouth would be "Everybody out" and that he would want to be alone there. As far as his childhood, yes there was chaos but he had relationships with both his parents until the day they died, so I'm thinking he resolved a lot of things between them. There's an interview he did where he said he finally understood that his father needed "space" to create (something his mother didn't understand at the time either) but he didn't get that until he was writing music constantly. He said even his housekeepers footsteps would throw him off when he was working because they were a different "beat".

Scottie is projecting what Prince would say about the museum when he says that Prince would say "Everybody Out"... It was Prince's idea to make it a museum and he was doing more concerts in Paisley towards the end of his life. Scottie almost makes Prince out to be a misanthrope. Prince liked his privacy to create. Liking your alone time is not the same thing as wanting to live in total isolation at all times. Also, Leeds, although it was a long time ago, spent a ton of time with Prince as did his brother. I don't like that Leeds is considered some authority on PRince. But I sure as hell don't think Scottie is one. Remember he was his live sound engineer. She wasn't Susan Rogers workign 20 hours a day while PRince created a song from start to finish.

As for the no friends comment. Listen again. Prince says he had no "Old Friends" and Scottie stated that Prince liked to live in the moment (thus the expression). . But Scottie also says "I don't know how many friends he really had" which implies he didn't know if he had any.

Also, keep in mind that Prince was going through a stage in interview where he was stating that he preferred the company of young people. It sounds like a midlife crisis.

I know I am definitely not an authority and I could be completely wrong about my last statement but I am tired of people disputing each other interpretations of Prince. He wasn't that simple. They could be right (as long as they are not just making shit up) and still have different views of the man.

Misslink88 said:

purplerabbithole said:

I see your point but don't we all project to some extent. The truth is that both Leeds and Baldwin personally knew Prince. They are interpretiing behavior they saw first hand. Besides, Prince's life wasn't an easy one. He wasn't just a quirky guy who people liked but couldn't get close to because they didn't understand him. To say that he didn't know if Prince had any friends (really how hard is it to make at least a casual friend?), its kind of big statement. Pete might be projecting as well (Prince and he were just geeks who worked together and were generally respectful but not particulary close or shared much in common so therefore all P's relationships must be the same.) Didn't Pete also state that Prince's white was often everyone else's black. His assertion that Prince couldn't have been lonely and your assertion that Prince oculdn't have had abandonment issues (come on, do you know anything about the dude's childhood? It would be more surprising if he didn't have some abandonment issues.) it is projecting as well but to defend individualists. But I would argue that eccentrics, individualists, and odd balls make friends too or at least have families that love them.

[Edited 6/6/17 17:50pm]

Leeds hadn't seen him in years so what he observed was from ages ago. Scottie was with him from the late 90's until February of 2016. Scottie didn't say P had no friends, P said it to Scottie and I didn't get the impression it was in a pitiful way, but more in a way of the fame "people want things from me"...you know, where you can't tell if people want you for you or for what you can do for them. And he'd already encountered more than his fair share of those kinds of people. It was also Scottie who said P's black was someone else's white in reference to not having people around. He said if P were to return to PP today, the first two words out of his mouth would be "Everybody out" and that he would want to be alone there. As far as his childhood, yes there was chaos but he had relationships with both his parents until the day they died, so I'm thinking he resolved a lot of things between them. There's an interview he did where he said he finally understood that his father needed "space" to create (something his mother didn't understand at the time either) but he didn't get that until he was writing music constantly. He said even his housekeepers footsteps would throw him off when he was working because they were a different "beat".

[Edited 6/6/17 20:19pm]

[Edited 6/6/17 20:22pm]

[Edited 6/6/17 20:25pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Scottie is projecting what Prince would say about the museum when he says that Prince would say "Everybody Out"... It was Prince's idea to make it a museum and he was doing more concerts in Paisley towards the end of his life. Scottie almost makes Prince out to be a misanthrope. Prince liked his privacy to create. Liking your alone time is not the same thing as wanting to live in total isolation at all times. Also, Leeds, although it was a long time ago, spent a ton of time with Prince as did his brother. I don't like that Leeds is considered some authority on PRince. But I sure as hell don't think Scottie is one. Remember he was his live sound engineer. She wasn't Susan Rogers workign 20 hours a day while PRince created a song from start to finish.

As for the no friends comment. Listen again. Prince says he had no "Old Friends" and Scottie stated that Prince liked to live in the moment (thus the expression). . But Scottie also says "I don't know how many friends he really had" which implies he didn't know if he had any.

Also, keep in mind that Prince was going through a stage in interview where he was stating that he preferred the company of young people. It sounds like a midlife crisis.

I know I am definitely not an authority and I could be completely wrong about my last statement but I am tired of people disputing each other interpretations of Prince. He wasn't that simple. They could be right (as long as they are not just making shit up) and still have different views of the man.

[Edited 6/6/17 20:19pm]

[Edited 6/6/17 20:22pm]

[Edited 6/6/17 20:25pm]

You've posted several of your own projections (including your first couple of sentences above), which, I assume, aren't based in any personal interaction with Prince so guessing whose and which version of P is correct is pretty futile. There is no correct version. Different people knew him at different stages in his life and, like all of us, he grew and evolved as a person. Might be the reason he hung out with younger people - he didn't have a "past" with them. They could be in the moment together. Many people, including P himself from very early on, have discussed his desire to leave the past firmly behind him and focus only on the present moment. In fact, that was what he was striving for in each of his albums and with his music overall, something new. The best that one can get is a snapshot of him at different stages of his life. But psychoanalyzing him is like nailing jello to the wall. I do get your desire in trying to understand the man and perhaps some of his motivations.

rogifan said:

I know I am totally projecting. But us fans do have the ability to look at Prince without our own egos or agendas getting in a way, a sort of objectivity in a way. I think the associates should always start their discussions about Prince with "In my experience" because their definitive words are annoying. In a way, Scottie was right to call out Leeds for acting definitive on the subject of Prince but he was inadvertedingly doing the same thing.

Misslink88 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Scottie is projecting what Prince would say about the museum when he says that Prince would say "Everybody Out"... It was Prince's idea to make it a museum and he was doing more concerts in Paisley towards the end of his life. Scottie almost makes Prince out to be a misanthrope. Prince liked his privacy to create. Liking your alone time is not the same thing as wanting to live in total isolation at all times. Also, Leeds, although it was a long time ago, spent a ton of time with Prince as did his brother. I don't like that Leeds is considered some authority on PRince. But I sure as hell don't think Scottie is one. Remember he was his live sound engineer. She wasn't Susan Rogers workign 20 hours a day while PRince created a song from start to finish.

As for the no friends comment. Listen again. Prince says he had no "Old Friends" and Scottie stated that Prince liked to live in the moment (thus the expression). . But Scottie also says "I don't know how many friends he really had" which implies he didn't know if he had any.

Also, keep in mind that Prince was going through a stage in interview where he was stating that he preferred the company of young people. It sounds like a midlife crisis.

I know I am definitely not an authority and I could be completely wrong about my last statement but I am tired of people disputing each other interpretations of Prince. He wasn't that simple. They could be right (as long as they are not just making shit up) and still have different views of the man.

[Edited 6/6/17 20:19pm]

[Edited 6/6/17 20:22pm]

[Edited 6/6/17 20:25pm]

You've posted several of your own projections (including your first couple of sentences above), which, I assume, aren't based in any personal interaction with Prince so guessing whose and which version of P is correct is pretty futile. There is no correct version. Different people knew him at different stages in his life and, like all of us, he grew and evolved as a person. Might be the reason he hung out with younger people - he didn't have a "past" with them. They could be in the moment together. Many people, including P himself from very early on, have discussed his desire to leave the past firmly behind him and focus only on the present moment. In fact, that was what he was striving for in each of his albums and with his music overall, something new. The best that one can get is a snapshot of him at different stages of his life. But psychoanalyzing him is like nailing jello to the wall. I do get your desire in trying to understand the man and perhaps some of his motivations.

i remember a year ago, tommy barbarella asked the receptionist about Prince on some major holiday, she said he just jammed by himself all day and tommy thought it was sad. I don't think it was sad at all, not if that's what he wanted to do more than anything else.

Susan Rodgers podcast interview is worth a listen if u wanna know the inside info about Prince in the studio.

purplerabbithole said:

rogifan said:

moonsister said:

rogifan said:

I have this interview and Prince's comments about his father came after a question about how he was able to be so much about love even though growing up his father didn't always exhibit that love towards him. Prince said in his fathers harshness he wanted [Prince] to excel. I think the comment about don't get a girl pregnant was his father saying don't do something stupid that could screw up your life.

I think that is some excellent advice about the girl. And it took a big heart to think only the best of a father who really wasn't there for him when he needed him.