laytonian said:

. Great interview here. Lisa defines P beautifully. https://nowtoronto.com/mu...a-coleman/ .

Fantastic interview. Thanks for sharing!

farnorth said:

rogifan said:

He wanted Wendy and me to be out in the band, and we were fine with that. He should be considered a gay icon even though he was not gay – he was androgynous and he was sexual and he was alive.

Hmm...I'm not so sure I would call Prince a gay icon. I'm not sure it's something he really pushed in his career either, certainly not later in his career. How much did he even talk about gays or gay rights?

I don't think you always have to talk about gay rights and marriage to be a gay icon. This was the 80s, and AIDS was the big thing. AIDS and HIV were everywhere and it scared the fuck out of everyone. So many of us in red states only knew it as a gay disease, and were so misinformed about it. Prince at least mentioned it in "Sign O The Times".

However, I digress. In a larger sense, Prince was a gay icon because he fought for human rights and equality. The whole idea of gender and race being all-inclusive was mentioned in the interview, and the band members have definitely echoed that over the years. The LGBTQ community just always wanted to be considered the same. Not special or unique, just on the same level as everyone else. Prince put that out there so matter of factly without plainly saying it. He could have replaced Gayle with a man, but he didn't. He could have replaced Dez with a dude, but he didn't. In fact, next band, there was even more racial and gender diversity. And while everyone, later on, was probably straight, he was still singing those songs.

In "Uptown", he challenges a girl who asks him if he was gay. "no, are you?". He throws her sideways use of asking if someone is gay to have her just admit who/what she is. And in "Bambi", he's not trying to change her, he's really taking on the role of every other construction worker out there who cat calls a girl and says she just needs a good dick to set her 'straight'. Hell, even W&L said the whole "is the water warm enough?" thing was two girls asking each other if they were gay and if they wanted to mess around. "Anna Stasia", "Diamonds and Pearls", etc. have him addressing love and loneliness over gender and sexuality.

Prince is the one who had Lisa put her arm around Wendy's waist in the Purple Rain poster, and Wendy have her jacket unbuttoned (a jacket she fought to wear because he was trying to put her in too much lace and her tomboy came out and said "uh, no").

So no, he didn't push a gay agenda, he pushed a human equality agenda. It really was sort of revolutionary at the time, when anything gay was so dirty, and taboo, and worth of a venomous joke or one-liner. I'm sure ol' boy battled that ideology when he knew his friends were gay, and then Larry Graham is whispering dogma in the other ear.

Besides, you don't dress like that and then expect to not have a gay following or be seen as a gender-bending icon. Even Annie Lennox had to step back and bow to that.

Nice interview.

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rogifan said:

Hmm...I'm not so sure I would call Prince a gay icon. I'm not sure it's something he really pushed in his career either, certainly not later in his career. How much did he even talk about gays or gay rights?

The audience chooses its icons, not the artist themselves choosing to be an icon. He was definately a gay or queer icon.

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[Edited 5/14/17 3:51am]

TrivialPursuit said:

NouveauDance said:

Nice interview.

.

.

rogifan said:

Hmm...I'm not so sure I would call Prince a gay icon. I'm not sure it's something he really pushed in his career either, certainly not later in his career. How much did he even talk about gays or gay rights?

The audience chooses its icons, not the artist themselves choosing to be an icon.

.

.

[Edited 5/14/17 3:51am]

This.

NouveauDance said:

I'm glad she didn't take the bait from the "gotcha" question about celebrities (in this case Prince, specifically) turning to drugs. She completely minimized her response to that question ("Yeah."), but spoke in detail about how his body was failing and that he was suffering, which, paranthetically, is likely why he started taking painkillers to begin with.

laurarichardson said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I don't think you always have to talk about gay rights and marriage to be a gay icon. This was the 80s, and AIDS was the big thing. AIDS and HIV were everywhere and it scared the fuck out of everyone. So many of us in red states only knew it as a gay disease, and were so misinformed about it. Prince at least mentioned it in "Sign O The Times".

However, I digress. In a larger sense, Prince was a gay icon because he fought for human rights and equality. The whole idea of gender and race being all-inclusive was mentioned in the interview, and the band members have definitely echoed that over the years. The LGBTQ community just always wanted to be considered the same. Not special or unique, just on the same level as everyone else. Prince put that out there so matter of factly without plainly saying it. He could have replaced Gayle with a man, but he didn't. He could have replaced Dez with a dude, but he didn't. In fact, next band, there was even more racial and gender diversity. And while everyone, later on, was probably straight, he was still singing those songs.

In "Uptown", he challenges a girl who asks him if he was gay. "no, are you?". He throws her sideways use of asking if someone is gay to have her just admit who/what she is. And in "Bambi", he's not trying to change her, he's really taking on the role of every other construction worker out there who cat calls a girl and says she just needs a good dick to set her 'straight'. Hell, even W&L said the whole "is the water warm enough?" thing was two girls asking each other if they were gay and if they wanted to mess around. "Anna Stasia", "Diamonds and Pearls", etc. have him addressing love and loneliness over gender and sexuality.

Prince is the one who had Lisa put her arm around Wendy's waist in the Purple Rain poster, and Wendy have her jacket unbuttoned (a jacket she fought to wear because he was trying to put her in too much lace and her tomboy came out and said "uh, no").

So no, he didn't push a gay agenda, he pushed a human equality agenda. It really was sort of revolutionary at the time, when anything gay was so dirty, and taboo, and worth of a venomous joke or one-liner. I'm sure ol' boy battled that ideology when he knew his friends were gay, and then Larry Graham is whispering dogma in the other ear.

Besides, you don't dress like that and then expect to not have a gay following or be seen as a gender-bending icon. Even Annie Lennox had to step back and bow to that.

-He was not a gay icon. He was trying to sell some records.

see reply #5

pdiddy2011 said:

I'm glad she didn't take the bait from the "gotcha" question about celebrities (in this case Prince, specifically) turning to drugs. She completely minimized her response to that question ("Yeah."), but spoke in detail about how his body was failing and that he was suffering, which, paranthetically, is likely why he started taking painkillers to begin with.

I liked that too. I find Lisa to be refreshing. I liked what she says about Prince and how eerie that they wrote the song Somtimes It Snows in April on April 21st. That always gives me goosebumps.

Thanks for sharing this article.

TrivialPursuit said:

In "Uptown", he challenges a girl who asks him if he was gay. "no, are you?". He throws her sideways use of asking if someone is gay to have her just admit who/what she is. And in "Bambi", he's not trying to change her, he's really taking on the role of every other construction worker out there who cat calls a girl and says she just needs a good dick to set her 'straight'. Hell, even W&L said the whole "is the water warm enough?" thing was two girls asking each other if they were gay and if they wanted to mess around. "Anna Stasia", "Diamonds and Pearls", etc. have him addressing love and loneliness over gender and sexuality.

I don't really see how that's admirable in any way I think there are probably better ways to express your attraction to a lesbian without saying "it's better with a man", but Prince was young and less aware. Anyway, I'm not sure I'd consider Prince to be a gay icon, in spite of his androgyny and how comfortable he was with his sexuality. He may have worked with gay musicians and inspired many gay people over the years, but I haven't seen much about Prince championing LGBT causes. Didn't he even made some homophobic remarks over the years? If I'm wrong, correct me. I've only been a fan for a short period of time, so yall know a lot more than I do.

[Edited 5/14/17 7:46am]

mbdtyler said:

I don't really see how that's admirable in any way

I didn't say he was endorsing that behavior. I said he was playing a role. It was a character. I thought I was clear on that.

laurarichardson said:

-He was not a gay icon. He was trying to sell some records.

You are certainly entitled to be wrong, and you're exercising that I see.

Gay icons don't set out to be gay icons. It's not on the job description or resume. No more than someone sets out to be any sort of role model. As stated, the audience finds things in any artist that they can identify with and is attractive to them, and life them up to highlight those things. So, it's really not for you to say. You're not a gay man. You can't speak to that.

laurarichardson said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I don't think you always have to talk about gay rights and marriage to be a gay icon. This was the 80s, and AIDS was the big thing. AIDS and HIV were everywhere and it scared the fuck out of everyone. So many of us in red states only knew it as a gay disease, and were so misinformed about it. Prince at least mentioned it in "Sign O The Times".

However, I digress. In a larger sense, Prince was a gay icon because he fought for human rights and equality. The whole idea of gender and race being all-inclusive was mentioned in the interview, and the band members have definitely echoed that over the years. The LGBTQ community just always wanted to be considered the same. Not special or unique, just on the same level as everyone else. Prince put that out there so matter of factly without plainly saying it. He could have replaced Gayle with a man, but he didn't. He could have replaced Dez with a dude, but he didn't. In fact, next band, there was even more racial and gender diversity. And while everyone, later on, was probably straight, he was still singing those songs.

In "Uptown", he challenges a girl who asks him if he was gay. "no, are you?". He throws her sideways use of asking if someone is gay to have her just admit who/what she is. And in "Bambi", he's not trying to change her, he's really taking on the role of every other construction worker out there who cat calls a girl and says she just needs a good dick to set her 'straight'. Hell, even W&L said the whole "is the water warm enough?" thing was two girls asking each other if they were gay and if they wanted to mess around. "Anna Stasia", "Diamonds and Pearls", etc. have him addressing love and loneliness over gender and sexuality.

Prince is the one who had Lisa put her arm around Wendy's waist in the Purple Rain poster, and Wendy have her jacket unbuttoned (a jacket she fought to wear because he was trying to put her in too much lace and her tomboy came out and said "uh, no").

So no, he didn't push a gay agenda, he pushed a human equality agenda. It really was sort of revolutionary at the time, when anything gay was so dirty, and taboo, and worth of a venomous joke or one-liner. I'm sure ol' boy battled that ideology when he knew his friends were gay, and then Larry Graham is whispering dogma in the other ear.

Besides, you don't dress like that and then expect to not have a gay following or be seen as a gender-bending icon. Even Annie Lennox had to step back and bow to that.

-He was not a gay icon. He was trying to sell some records.

there u go.....he used "that" community

TrivialPursuit said:

mbdtyler said:

rogifan said:

mbdtyler said:

I don't really see how that's admirable in any way I think there are probably better ways to express your attraction to a lesbian without saying "it's better with a man", but Prince was young and less aware. Anyway, I'm not sure I'd consider Prince to be a gay icon, in spite of his androgyny and how comfortable he was with his sexuality. He may have worked with gay musicians and inspired many gay people over the years, but I haven't seen much about Prince championing LGBT causes. Didn't he even made some homophobic remarks over the years? If I'm wrong, correct me. I've only been a fan for a short period of time, so yall know a lot more than I do.

[Edited 5/14/17 7:46am]

This is what I mean about people projecting. Just like after he passed people on MSNBC saying with his fro he was making this big political statement yet Kim Berry said he told her he wanted to go natural because he was sick of needing to have his hair styled all the time. http://www.telegraph.co.u...ng-with-t/ "In the later part of his years, he decided to go natural. He loved that. He was like, 'Kim, I don't have to get my hair done as often!' We could just get him conditioned, fluff it up, and send him on his way."

Exactly it is projecting their issues on him.

Gay Icon, Pain pill abuse poster boy and polictical statement because of his hair.

rogifan said:

Many remembrances have touched on Prince’s influence on masculinity and gender. Some have even called him a gay icon. Do you agree? Oh yes. And I think he would be fine with that. I think he did that completely intentionally, and it’s a very important part of the whole piece of being all-inclusive. He realized that early, early on. Even though I think he questioned and played with his sexuality, he was very much a heterosexual guy. But he appreciated... I don’t know how to say it... being able to play with as many colours as you want to play with in the crayon box. And that’s what he was going to do. It’s all okay and it’s all great. He wanted Wendy and me to be out in the band, and we were fine with that. He should be considered a gay icon even though he was not gay – he was androgynous and he was sexual and he was alive.

Hmm...I'm not so sure I would call Prince a gay icon. I'm not sure it's something he really pushed in his career either, certainly not later in his career. How much did he even talk about gays or gay rights?

How much did Judy Garland or Marilyn Monroe do that? And yet...gay icons!

Genesia said:

rogifan said:

Hmm...I'm not so sure I would call Prince a gay icon. I'm not sure it's something he really pushed in his career either, certainly not later in his career. How much did he even talk about gays or gay rights?

How much did Judy Garland or Marilyn Monroe do that? And yet...gay icons!

Prince was a gay/queer icon cause he was a freak, and he gave queer people streangth via his public radical gender performance, and foregrounding of people like Wendy and Lisa in his band.

I cannot even describe what he did for me growing up. He just seemed completely free, and he showed me that there was another life to live besides the homophobic environment I grew up in. He was a beacon. A lifesaver in a lot of ways.

luvsexy4all said:

laurarichardson said:

TrivialPursuit said: -He was not a gay icon. He was trying to sell some records.

there u go.....he used "that" community

But his being a gay icon has nothing to do with his "use" of LGBTQ folks, or what he thought about them,--it's a matter of whether or not they used him, whether they found something meaningful in his art or presentation that particularly resonated with them as LGBTQ. And plenty of people in the community have said that he served that role for them. Was/Is he an icon for folks in the community? Yep, and it doesn't take much looking around to find evidence of it.

EddieC said:

luvsexy4all said:

there u go.....he used "that" community

But his being a gay icon has nothing to do with his "use" of LGBTQ folks, or what he thought about them,--it's a matter of whether or not they used him, whether they found something meaningful in his art or presentation that particularly resonated with them as LGBTQ. And plenty of people in the community have said that he served that role for them. Was/Is he an icon for folks in the community? Yep, and it doesn't take much looking around to find evidence of it.

but he was not especially known as a gay icon....like diana or cher or bette

luvsexy4all said:

EddieC said:

But his being a gay icon has nothing to do with his "use" of LGBTQ folks, or what he thought about them,--it's a matter of whether or not they used him, whether they found something meaningful in his art or presentation that particularly resonated with them as LGBTQ. And plenty of people in the community have said that he served that role for them. Was/Is he an icon for folks in the community? Yep, and it doesn't take much looking around to find evidence of it.

but he was not especially known as a gay icon....like diana or cher or bette

Look, I can't speak personally to the question--but for years I have seen discussion about Prince as a gay icon, as a role model/inspiration for LGBTQ people in embracing their own identities, as someone with a particular relevance to the community. I'm not directly part of that community, but it's not an idea that just popped up this week in these articles. I seem to remember several articles and tributes about a year ago from several sources. It's not even the first time it's come up on the org. However, I'm going to step back and let others who can speak more directly do the talking.