OldFriends4Sale said:

purplerabbithole said:

I know Prince wasn't the first, nor the last dude, to wear makeup and effeminate clothes in the world of rock and funk, but boy, he pulled it off better than anyone other than Bowie.

I see pix of Mark Brown, Micki Free, Jesse Johnson, BObby Z, Miko Weaver, even Andre Cymone...all decent to good looking men and yet none of them (IMO) pulled off the look as well as Prince. I wonder why that is the case? Andre came close in some ways.

IF you agree that P pulled it off best, do you think it was because he was doing it a bit earlier, changing his look more frequently, seemed to be more ironic/punkish about it, had a combination of swagger/vulnerability that made it work for him, or was just prettier than most of the other fellas. I think it was probably all of the above. I think most of the other dudes looked silly and derivative when they attempted it.

Bowie pulled off androgyny well also, probably because Bowie had a flair for the dramatic and had a deep speaking and singing voice. Damn, Prince had those characteristics as well (except he usually didn't sing in a deep voice and his sense of dramatics was better on stage than on film..)

[Edited 5/7/17 20:54pm]

I don't think any of them tried to pull that look off

Mark Brown Bobby Z and Andre weren't trying to do that like Prince.

Micki Free copied Prince, Jesse Johnson -that was a part of who he was too, and then being in the purple camp he was free to be, I don't think he wanted to go as far as Prince did though.

I don't think any of the people you mentioned were trying to be androgynous.

Morris Day (What Time is It?) album was made to look like Prince(like his funny side) Sheila E St Paul Sir Casey Terry Wendy Cat were all made to reflect Prince too

and Vanity was the reflection

But they were trying to pull that look off. Bobby Z had the same exact hairstyle as Prince on the PR tour. Bobby Z also had perfectly manicured facial hair and very obvious eye makeup on, etc.

.

Lord have mercy. Sometimes, it's okay to admit they were going for a look. Sometimes, *that* is what it is. The vibe at the time was androgynous/sexually ambiguous imagery. Lots of bands played with these things. And it's cool, 30 years on, to be able to finally admit it. It's fucking drag, ffs. And what?

.

Andre Cymone is wearing full on lipstick, thick ass eyeliner, red blush/contouring, and definitely took a mascara brush to his eyebrows and mustache on the cover of AC. That's more than Prince did. And if Andre's skin tone was lighter, like Prince's, it'd look dramatic. That one pic of Prince during Lovesexy where he has bright ass blush on his cheeks would not look quite as fem on a dude with darker skin. But fem it is.

OldFriends4Sale said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think any of them tried to pull that look off

Mark Brown Bobby Z and Andre weren't trying to do that like Prince.

Micki Free copied Prince, Jesse Johnson -that was a part of who he was too, and then being in the purple camp he was free to be, I don't think he wanted to go as far as Prince did though.

I don't think any of the people you mentioned were trying to be androgynous.

Morris Day (What Time is It?) album was made to look like Prince(like his funny side) Sheila E St Paul Sir Casey Terry Wendy Cat were all made to reflect Prince too

and Vanity was the reflection

But they were trying to pull that look off. Bobby Z had the same exact hairstyle as Prince on the PR tour. Bobby Z also had perfectly manicured facial hair and very obvious eye makeup on, etc.

I think that was under Princes' direction though. Bobyy never really looked comfortable in that PR inside poster dressed like a clown imho.

Short answer--'cause he looks good in it!

rdhull said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

But they were trying to pull that look off. Bobby Z had the same exact hairstyle as Prince on the PR tour. Bobby Z also had perfectly manicured facial hair and very obvious eye makeup on, etc.

I think that was under Princes' direction though. Bobyy never really looked comfortable in that PR inside poster dressed like a clown imho.

Fair point! But short of saying Prince held a gun to ol Bobby's head, we can presume he felt at least a little okay wearing all that makeup and having a curly poof waterfall hairstyle. I mean, didn't they all pretty much have that same hairstyle anyway?

.

Point is, its fine that it looked much more natural on Prince. He had a big ol head that was a beautiful and angular canvas to work upon. It fit his whole deal and he wore just enough to enhance his already pleasant/striking features. It didn't work so well on others because their faces weren't suited for it and they also tended to use way way way more than Prince. But the suggestion that people were just wearing pounds of makeup in glam/funk rock circles, but not going for any lick of androgyny is... I mean, come on.

BeatofBlackWings said:

rdhull said:

I think that was under Princes' direction though. Bobyy never really looked comfortable in that PR inside poster dressed like a clown imho.

Fair point! But short of saying Prince held a gun to ol Bobby's head, we can presume he felt at least a little okay wearing all that makeup and having a curly poof waterfall hairstyle. I mean, didn't they all pretty much have that same hairstyle anyway?

YEAH cause Prince made them

.

Point is, its fine that it looked much more natural on Prince. He had a big ol head that was a beautiful and angular canvas to work upon. It fit his whole deal and he wore just enough to enhance his already pleasant/striking features.

I dont think head SIZE had anything to do with it.

I thought he stopped fussing with his hair because it was against JW lifestyle? Am I wrong?

rogifan said:

He's the only guy I'll tolerate wearing makeup. Gotta say though I hate when people project and that happened a lot after he passed. I remember MSNBC did a whole segment on the political statement he made with his afro. But according to Kim Berry Prince said he was sick of having to have his hair done all the time and wanted to go natural. Not everything he did was to make some grand statement.

kingricefan said:

I thought I read that on here in a couple of places but I could be wrong.

rogifan said:

kingricefan said:

I thought he stopped fussing with his hair because it was against JW lifestyle? Am I wrong?

I wasn't aware JW weren't allowed to have their hair styled.

rogifan said:

I wasn't aware JW weren't allowed to have their hair styled.

kingricefan said:

I thought I read that on here in a couple of places but I could be wrong.

Nah, that's not true. There is no JW prohibition on folks, male or female, having their hair styled.

LBrent said:

kingricefan said:

I thought I read that on here in a couple of places but I could be wrong.

Nah, that's not true. There is no JW prohibition on folks, male or female, having their hair styled.

People have some funny ideas about JWs.

purplethunder3121 said:

LBrent said:

Nah, that's not true. There is no JW prohibition on folks, male or female, having their hair styled.

People have some funny ideas about JWs.

Yup.

Somebody posted that JW women aren't allowed to wear jewelry or slacks. (Not true, btw.)

I was like

because he didnt look queer

rdhull said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Right!!! I was trying to get some people to see that not to long ago.

Sometimes it is just what it is.

You mean it wasn't his way of saying he is dying and wanted to go back to the beginning to say goodbye???

lol right

BeatofBlackWings said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think any of them tried to pull that look off

Mark Brown Bobby Z and Andre weren't trying to do that like Prince.

Micki Free copied Prince, Jesse Johnson -that was a part of who he was too, and then being in the purple camp he was free to be, I don't think he wanted to go as far as Prince did though.

I don't think any of the people you mentioned were trying to be androgynous.

Morris Day (What Time is It?) album was made to look like Prince(like his funny side) Sheila E St Paul Sir Casey Terry Wendy Cat were all made to reflect Prince too

and Vanity was the reflection

But they were trying to pull that look off. Bobby Z had the same exact hairstyle as Prince on the PR tour. Bobby Z also had perfectly manicured facial hair and very obvious eye makeup on, etc.

.

Lord have mercy. Sometimes, it's okay to admit they were going for a look. Sometimes, *that* is what it is. The vibe at the time was androgynous/sexually ambiguous imagery. Lots of bands played with these things. And it's cool, 30 years on, to be able to finally admit it. It's fucking drag, ffs. And what?

.

Andre Cymone is wearing full on lipstick, thick ass eyeliner, red blush/contouring, and definitely took a mascara brush to his eyebrows and mustache on the cover of AC. That's more than Prince did. And if Andre's skin tone was lighter, like Prince's, it'd look dramatic. That one pic of Prince during Lovesexy where he has bright ass blush on his cheeks would not look quite as fem on a dude with darker skin. But fem it is.

No they were not trying to pull of an Androgynous look, Bobby Z was not androgynous nor was Brown Mark. They were his band members and the style was the look.

.
Prince was into the whole 'twin' thing way back and that is what the 'reflection' is about, it is not about them trying to be androgynous.

.

Mazarati had an androgynous look, but from stories it isn't what they wanted, it is the look Prince picked for them.

.

That stuff was very common in the 70s and 80s,

.

But BrownMark Bobby Z Andre were never

rogifan said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Right!!! I was trying to get some people to see that not to long ago.

Sometimes it is just what it is.

Did Prince ever say he wore makeup or certain clothing to promote or push a specific agenda?

In a way I think

.

Our Clothes Our Hair We Don't Care It's All About Being There

.

There is a Park that is Known 4 the face it attracts, Colorful people

whose hair on 1 side is swept back

.

many other references of the look pushing his Utopian agenda, but nothing that I know of that is political or anything. If anything it was about breaking up agendas.

BeatofBlackWings said:

rdhull said:

I think that was under Princes' direction though. Bobyy never really looked comfortable in that PR inside poster dressed like a clown imho.

Fair point! But short of saying Prince held a gun to ol Bobby's head, we can presume he felt at least a little okay wearing all that makeup and having a curly poof waterfall hairstyle. I mean, didn't they all pretty much have that same hairstyle anyway?

.

Point is, its fine that it looked much more natural on Prince. He had a big ol head that was a beautiful and angular canvas to work upon. It fit his whole deal and he wore just enough to enhance his already pleasant/striking features. It didn't work so well on others because their faces weren't suited for it and they also tended to use way way way more than Prince. But the suggestion that people were just wearing pounds of makeup in glam/funk rock circles, but not going for any lick of androgyny is... I mean, come on.

From the start those people were allowed to pick a lot of what they wore, and then it all swirled together for the direction Prince wanted.
Gayle Chapman told the story of 'I believe Susan Moonsie' coming to her dressing room with the lingerie Prince wanted her to wear. She wasn't comfortable with it, and went and picked out what she wanted. I believe quickly everyone in the camp liked the ambiguious expressions of ethnicity and sexuality. But everyone still had 'character' roles. Bobby Z never looked androgynous.

kingricefan said:

I thought he stopped fussing with his hair because it was against JW lifestyle? Am I wrong?

rogifan said:

He's the only guy I'll tolerate wearing makeup. Gotta say though I hate when people project and that happened a lot after he passed. I remember MSNBC did a whole segment on the political statement he made with his afro. But according to Kim Berry Prince said he was sick of having to have his hair done all the time and wanted to go natural. Not everything he did was to make some grand statement.

I doubt that. He became a JW in the late 90s.

And having that much hair on his head would still be outside the norms of JW lifestyle.

Plus he still wore tones of make up.

Actually pulling back some, the shorter 'conservative' look from 2001(ONA/Rainbowchildrend)-2011 Welcome 2 tours/20Ten might have been because of the JW that is the longest stretch of Prince not chenging his hair style much. But growing it out like that was very 'liberal' and hippie like.

OldFriends4Sale said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

Fair point! But short of saying Prince held a gun to ol Bobby's head, we can presume he felt at least a little okay wearing all that makeup and having a curly poof waterfall hairstyle. I mean, didn't they all pretty much have that same hairstyle anyway?

.

Point is, its fine that it looked much more natural on Prince. He had a big ol head that was a beautiful and angular canvas to work upon. It fit his whole deal and he wore just enough to enhance his already pleasant/striking features. It didn't work so well on others because their faces weren't suited for it and they also tended to use way way way more than Prince. But the suggestion that people were just wearing pounds of makeup in glam/funk rock circles, but not going for any lick of androgyny is... I mean, come on.

From the start those people were allowed to pick a lot of what they wore, and then it all swirled together for the direction Prince wanted.
Gayle Chapman told the story of 'I believe Susan Moonsie' coming to her dressing room with the lingerie Prince wanted her to wear. She wasn't comfortable with it, and went and picked out what she wanted. I believe quickly everyone in the camp liked the ambiguious expressions of ethnicity and sexuality. But everyone still had 'character' roles. Bobby Z never looked androgynous.

IDK bout you, but I understand that glam rock visuals have deep roots in expressions of androgyny. Whether or not Bobby or Mark pulled off an androgynous look to your standards is irrelevant. A dude wearing a woman's hairstyle (it was, sorry, esp for a white guy), pounds of makeup (including lipstick, blush, mascara, and eyeliner), in a brocade jacket with shoulderpads is gonna look gender-ambiguous. And yes that is absolutely part of Prince's modus operandi even during Purple Rain where we saw the first iteration of the love symbol.

.

So, please. PLEASE don't just argue the point because you have a chip on your shoulder about my criticisms of Susannah. To say the dudes in the Rev didn't look androgynous is just... Wowie. Absurd is a good word for it.

Regardless of whether or not they chose the look or whether or not they intended to confuse anyone about their gender or sexuality (ie Boy George), I am still simply saying these dudes looked kind of silly in makeup and frilly clothes. And Prince looked awesome and sexy...SIMPLE AS THAT.

OF4S---please stop being defender of all 1980's associates who are not Prince.. This thread was not intended as an insult toward those guys. Prince was special. Can't we just admit that???

OldFriends4Sale said:

kingricefan said:

I thought he stopped fussing with his hair because it was against JW lifestyle? Am I wrong?

I doubt that. He became a JW in the late 90s.

And having that much hair on his head would still be outside the norms of JW lifestyle.

Plus he still wore tones of make up.

Actually pulling back some, the shorter 'conservative' look from 2001(ONA/Rainbowchildrend)-2011 Welcome 2 tours/20Ten might have been because of the JW that is the longest stretch of Prince not chenging his hair style much. But growing it out like that was very 'liberal' and hippie like.

This video clip has The Revelotion discussing P's androgyny: https://youtu.be/XS4jSz9_seg

purplethunder3121 said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

From the start those people were allowed to pick a lot of what they wore, and then it all swirled together for the direction Prince wanted.
Gayle Chapman told the story of 'I believe Susan Moonsie' coming to her dressing room with the lingerie Prince wanted her to wear. She wasn't comfortable with it, and went and picked out what she wanted. I believe quickly everyone in the camp liked the ambiguious expressions of ethnicity and sexuality. But everyone still had 'character' roles. Bobby Z never looked androgynous.

IDK bout you, but I understand that glam rock visuals have deep roots in expressions of androgyny. Whether or not Bobby or Mark pulled off an androgynous look to your standards is irrelevant. A dude wearing a woman's hairstyle (it was, sorry, esp for a white guy), pounds of makeup (including lipstick, blush, mascara, and eyeliner), in a brocade jacket with shoulderpads is gonna look gender-ambiguous. And yes that is absolutely part of Prince's modus operandi even during Purple Rain where we saw the first iteration of the love symbol.

.

So, please. PLEASE don't just argue the point because you have a chip on your shoulder about my criticisms of Susannah. To say the dudes in the Rev didn't look androgynous is just... Wowie. Absurd is a good word for it.

how do U define it as a woman's hairstyle. In parts of Africa the men have long braids and the women are shaved.

.

Brown Mark & Bobby Z were never an androgynous expression.

The time period of expression via the look found on the 1999/Purple Rain tour was pulling from a Victorian era or earlier maybe, like Prince's Lovesexy loook also pulled from that period of pirates and buccaneers, but Bobby Z Dez Andre Brown Mark and definately not Dr Fink were not looking androgynous. Wendy said they looked like gargoyles sometimes ...

.

And I don't know who you are, but a chip on a shoulder about Susannah, I don't even know what you are talking about. This is a seperate discussion, so please stop being petty. Stick 2 this discussion and stop using strawmen to distract from the fact that CLASS IS IN SESSION:PURPLE 101

I don't see ANDROGYNOUS on Bobby Z or BrownMark anywhere above

and the women were not made to look like men

kmama07 said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

But they were trying to pull that look off. Bobby Z had the same exact hairstyle as Prince on the PR tour. Bobby Z also had perfectly manicured facial hair and very obvious eye makeup on, etc.

.

Lord have mercy. Sometimes, it's okay to admit they were going for a look. Sometimes, *that* is what it is. The vibe at the time was androgynous/sexually ambiguous imagery. Lots of bands played with these things. And it's cool, 30 years on, to be able to finally admit it. It's fucking drag, ffs. And what?

.

Andre Cymone is wearing full on lipstick, thick ass eyeliner, red blush/contouring, and definitely took a mascara brush to his eyebrows and mustache on the cover of AC. That's more than Prince did. And if Andre's skin tone was lighter, like Prince's, it'd look dramatic. That one pic of Prince during Lovesexy where he has bright ass blush on his cheeks would not look quite as fem on a dude with darker skin. But fem it is.

I was under the impression Prince had a certain vision for how the band looked onstage and that was the only reason they dressed like that, not because they were adopting Prince's personal look in situations other than work?

Right, this person obviously doesn't get it.

.

Morris Day on the cover of What Time is it had on make up eyeliner and looking like Prince, but it wasn't to look androgynous.

I think it's simply because he was a popstar.

.

People in theatre, film and music have always been more colourful and flamboyant than the rest of us - so I've never thought anything of it.

.

I've always seen Prince's image as no different to anyone else I'd see on TV or on the stage.

.

For example, a Popstar can get away with wearing dark glasses during an interview but try doing that during a meeting at work!

.

rogifan said:

purplethunder3121 said:

People have some funny ideas about JWs.

Does everyone who belongs to the JW faith have to follow some code or something? Seems to me that people who aren't religious think those who are can't do anything outside of a rigid set of rules when in reality that's not how most religious people live their lives.

Like any organization, secular or religious, there are acceoted standards and expectations, but as people who aren't a part of any group often assume what those standards are or aren't, usually based on their own personal world veiw and biases.

laytonian said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

I love hims big ol punkin head, but I'm sayin

. Tiny feet, big old head. It's a wonder he didn't tip over. . [Edited 5/9/17 8:44am]

Ya'll are terrible!

but you've got me in stitches with the thoughts