LoriJ said:

My thoughts exactly. I can attest to the fact that when a parent makes you feel like you can never do anything right, you spend your entire life trying to make them proud or garner praise. Even if you don't realize you're doing it.

Has anyone else seen the MTV special on the fan date for the UTCM PREMIERE? His father was interviewed and seemed to try to take credit for Prince's success. It was disheartening to see as a fan. Imagine how it must of made Prince feel.

LBrent said:

Based on instinct alone I would guess Yes, Yes and Yes...and more to the point, I also suspect John L. was a bit jealous of P.

Understandable, considering P spectacularly surpassed his father's musical abilities and aspirations, but still...

That photo of Prince and John L. - in one of his IG posts, P posted that pic with the caption "Pops had my back" so they worked out whatever was between them. You can see the Prinstagram post here: https://www.instagram.com/p/9KWtQBGLaY/

AlexHahn said:

annalizer said:

Misslink88 said: I agree with all you. Also, it seemed to me that Prince had more of a huge support group that did their best to help him with his anger issues after the divorce. I know it may seem that his parents were careless in allowing him to stay at Andres' because she wasn't fond of him at the time, as Andre stated in an interview that when he would try to play with Prince his mom would always find something for him to do because Andre was hardheaded). I think it was a trial to gauge how it would work to maybe bring him some peace and allowed him to stay due to the positive effect it had on him, but his parents were always there. Although Prince sort of cleared up the public image of his relationship with his parents by admitting his anger issues that were perceived by him in his youth as abandonment were nothing more than his parents, teachers, BB coach, managers and record execs, trying to help discipline and guide him but he, unbeknownst to those helping him, being a natural born leader, rebelled against anyone he perceived as too restrictive, including his parents.

This mosquito story was an upsetting one to uncover. Needless to say, not everyone who experiences such an event becomes as driven as Prince, but these things were certainly formative. He had a very tough childhood and was determined to escape it. At the same time, Minneapolis, and the Northside, retained a powerful sense of home for him.

Alex, were there other stories that were as disturbing that you left out?

Ch 5. I was struck yet again to read about poor Vivian Nelson dying of alcoholism. How her life pummeled downhill after John Nelson abandoned her. Did she ever stand a chance after that? What a cruel twist of fate and a tragedy. [Penny, to answer your question, I've read that alcoholism can be inherited].
Prince's entrepreneurialism, ingenuity and drive as he learns to record music is impressive. Chris Moon is an interesting character. There's no denying Prince's genuine talent, but he was lucky to cross paths with Chris. There was a lot of talent in Minneapolis, but Prince was a quick study and his star was rising more quickly than the others'. I'm sure this was not accidental; he was making calculated choices from the beginning.

Did I miss anybody of importance thru Chptr 5?

Associates & Family Chapters 1-5

I’m not going to include Grandparents in this but so far here is who has played a role in Prince’s life.

.

John Nelson, Mattie Shaw Nelson Baker, Vivian Nelson, Hayward Baker, Sharon, Lorna, Norrine, Alfred Jackson, Alfred Frank Jackson, Tyka Nelson, Olivia Nelson (Aunt).

.

Terry Jackson (no relation), Art Erickson, Andre Anderson (Cymone), Bernadette Anderson, Chazz Smith, Jim Hamilton, Pepe Willie, Paul Mitchell, Duane Nelson, Kim Upsher, Linda Anderson, Morris Day, LaVonne Daughtery, David Z. Rivkin, Chris Moon.

bsprout said:

Ch 5. I was struck yet again to read about poor Vivian Nelson dying of alcoholism. How her life pummeled downhill after John Nelson abandoned her. Did she ever stand a chance after that? What a cruel twist of fate and a tragedy. [Penny, to answer your question, I've read that alcoholism can be inherited]. Prince's entrepreneurialism, ingenuity and drive as he learns to record music is impressive. Chris Moon is an interesting character. There's no denying Prince's genuine talent, but he was lucky to cross paths with Chris. There was a lot of talent in Minneapolis, but Prince was a quick study and his star was rising more quickly than the others'. I'm sure this was not accidental; he was making calculated choices from the beginning.

It seems as if people were all at the right place, at the right time in his life. It's kinda like things just fell into place for him, but we know it really didn't and he had quite the struggle in his young life. I mean I can't imagine being 12 and not having a home to go to.

PennyPurple said:

What about the lady with the dance company? she wasn't in the book but prince took ballet at a community outreach program at the company, she is the lady in the 8/3/83 benefit concert, she attended the pr premiere, and he continued to support the company over the years...there was a real nice interview with her daughter in the local press after his death..I think her name was something like Leslie or Lindsay and last name started with a "h".

Maybe Laura or Alex can tell us more about her.

803 said:

PennyPurple said:

Did I miss anybody of importance thru Chptr 5?

Associates & Family Chapters 1-5

I’m not going to include Grandparents in this but so far here is who has played a role in Prince’s life.

.

John Nelson, Mattie Shaw Nelson Baker, Vivian Nelson, Hayward Baker, Sharon, Lorna, Norrine, Alfred Jackson, Alfred Frank Jackson, Tyka Nelson, Olivia Nelson (Aunt).

.

Terry Jackson (no relation), Art Erickson, Andre Anderson (Cymone), Bernadette Anderson, Chazz Smith, Jim Hamilton, Pepe Willie, Paul Mitchell, Duane Nelson, Kim Upsher, Linda Anderson, Morris Day, LaVonne Daughtery, David Z. Rivkin, Chris Moon.

What about the lady with the dance company? she wasn't in the book but prince took ballet at a community outreach program at the company, she is the lady in the 8/3/83 benefit concert, she attended the pr premiere, and he continued to support the company over the years...there was a real nice interview with her daughter in the local press after his death..I think her name was something like Leslie or Lindsay and last name started with a "h". Maybe Laura or Alex can tell us more about her.

That's right. I remember that from back then. I had forgotten all about it until now.

Could her last name be something like " hoiberg"?

Ballet seems to be something that he was interested in over the years..mayte was a trained ballet dancer, I think, and he wrote a ballet for her. He also worked with misty copeland and wanted her to dance en pointe..and she said that he supported the American ballet...

I realize that authors have to make editing decisions;otherwise, books become unwieldy but I would love to hear more about her and her influence...

803 said:

PennyPurple said:

Did I miss anybody of importance thru Chptr 5?

Associates & Family Chapters 1-5

I’m not going to include Grandparents in this but so far here is who has played a role in Prince’s life.

.

John Nelson, Mattie Shaw Nelson Baker, Vivian Nelson, Hayward Baker, Sharon, Lorna, Norrine, Alfred Jackson, Alfred Frank Jackson, Tyka Nelson, Olivia Nelson (Aunt).

.

Terry Jackson (no relation), Art Erickson, Andre Anderson (Cymone), Bernadette Anderson, Chazz Smith, Jim Hamilton, Pepe Willie, Paul Mitchell, Duane Nelson, Kim Upsher, Linda Anderson, Morris Day, LaVonne Daughtery, David Z. Rivkin, Chris Moon.

What about the lady with the dance company? she wasn't in the book but prince took ballet at a community outreach program at the company, she is the lady in the 8/3/83 benefit concert, she attended the pr premiere, and he continued to support the company over the years...there was a real nice interview with her daughter in the local press after his death..I think her name was something like Leslie or Lindsay and last name started with a "h". Maybe Laura or Alex can tell us more about her.

Here it is:

While growing up, Prince had ballet training through an initiative called the Urban Arts Program. It connected students “who didn’t fit into the traditional academic world” with local arts institutions, explained Minnesota Dance Theatre (MDT) artistic director Lise Houlton.

Prince took classes with MDT in Dinkytown. Houlton’s mother, company founder Loyce Houlton, became a mentor and close friend.

http://www.startribune.co...378179261/

803 said:

Could her last name be something like " hoiberg"? Ballet seems to be something that he was interested in over the years..mayte was a trained ballet dancer, I think, and he wrote a ballet for her. He also worked with misty copeland and wanted her to dance en pointe..and she said that he supported the American ballet... I realize that authors have to make editing decisions;otherwise, books become unwieldy but I would love to hear more about her and her influence...

After 4/21, a story was posted here on the Org about P donating $1million to a dance company in Harlem and he donated $250,000 to The Uptown Dance Academy amoung other dance companies.

NickiStarr said:

I was shattered to hear about the closet. It was baffling to me, because the only question I had was "where was his mother?" I'm sure young Prince had the same question. So very, very sad. I wonder if this man is alive and what he would say to explain himself.

Black culture during this period was one of a lot of 'color coding', meaning, lighter-complections were more acceptable in white culture. I wonder if Prince was met with jealousy by his stepfather for this reason? Or was Prince in the way of his relationship with Mattie? What could cause a man to be so cruel to just Prince?

Prince's step father was ligh complexioned as well.
It seems his mother and father both dated/married only

other 'mixed' people

OldFriends4Sale said:

NickiStarr said:

I was shattered to hear about the closet. It was baffling to me, because the only question I had was "where was his mother?" I'm sure young Prince had the same question. So very, very sad. I wonder if this man is alive and what he would say to explain himself.

Black culture during this period was one of a lot of 'color coding', meaning, lighter-complections were more acceptable in white culture. I wonder if Prince was met with jealousy by his stepfather for this reason? Or was Prince in the way of his relationship with Mattie? What could cause a man to be so cruel to just Prince?

Prince's step father was ligh complexioned as well.
It seems his mother and father both dated/married only

other 'mixed' people

I'm thinking they dated/married only people they were attracted to or loved.

* conversation continue via orgnotes, so thread is not taken further off topic

Misslink88 said:

AlexHahn said:

This mosquito story was an upsetting one to uncover. Needless to say, not everyone who experiences such an event becomes as driven as Prince, but these things were certainly formative. He had a very tough childhood and was determined to escape it. At the same time, Minneapolis, and the Northside, retained a powerful sense of home for him.

Alex, were there other stories that were as disturbing that you left out?

The mosquito story came from Paul Mitchell, and what it meant to me, other than being really sad at how a coach could be so cruel to a kid, was that Prince badly wanted to hang with Duane and Paul and be one of the athletes, but that was not to be because of his size, and he turned to music instead.

Art Erickson talked about how athletics were the main way "out" of the neighborhood (Duane and Paul each won college scholarships), so it makes sense that Prince was looking at that path too. I found it really interesting that Prince had his athlete friends in one group and his music friends in another. I think a lot of us were like that in high school as we figured out where we fit in. In fact, Paul Mitchell said he was surprised when Prince landed his contract with Warners, not because he didn't think he was talented, but because he never saw Prince being a musician. And Paul spent as much time with Prince in junior high/high school as anyone. At his Aunt Olivia's, he might play guitar a little for Paul and Duane, and Paul said he just figured John taught Prince. He never knew the extent of it.

By the way, Paul is a great guy and a pleasure to interview. It made me happy that Prince had him as a friend during a time in his life when he really needed one.

LauraTiebert said:

Misslink88 said:

Alex, were there other stories that were as disturbing that you left out?

The mosquito story came from Paul Mitchell, and what it meant to me, other than being really sad at how a coach could be so cruel to a kid, was that Prince badly wanted to hang with Duane and Paul and be one of the athletes, but that was not to be because of his size, and he turned to music instead.

Art Erickson talked about how athletics were the main way "out" of the neighborhood (Duane and Paul each won college scholarships), so it makes sense that Prince was looking at that path too. I found it really interesting that Prince had his athlete friends in one group and his music friends in another. I think a lot of us were like that in high school as we figured out where we fit in. In fact, Paul Mitchell said he was surprised when Prince landed his contract with Warners, not because he didn't think he was talented, but because he never saw Prince being a musician. And Paul spent as much time with Prince in junior high/high school as anyone. At his Aunt Olivia's, he might play guitar a little for Paul and Duane, and Paul said he just figured John taught Prince. He never knew the extent of it.

By the way, Paul is a great guy and a pleasure to interview. It made me happy that Prince had him as a friend during a time in his life when he really needed one.

Laura, one of the things nobody covers is P's relationship with Tyka during this time. There's no mention of her going to the Anderson's or hanging out with him when he was couch surfing. There are a few stories of her dancing (with a group she may have put together) when he played First Ave, and she said they agreed to not depend on each other if one of them hit the big time. Aside from that, she seems to be in the background but they were very close when John L. was still around. Have you any other background to this part?

Just finished the book and thoroughly enjoyed. I'll try to stay on topic and in line with chapter discussions after this post but do have a few questions. I noticed amongst people who declined to be interviewed for this project were both Tyka and Kirk. Was Tyka around at all during the time frame written about in the book? Were Tyka and Kirk not discussed much because they declined to be involved or because little is known of their relationships during this time in general?

Also, from very early on it is evident he was an enigma. It was difficult to read about aspects of his upbringing. As a parent it was difficult to understand how his parents were unable to love and nurture him- together or alone. It is easily seen how these events changed the trajectory of his life and the lives of those around him. Although he was able to overcome and "make something" of himself, he certainly (in my opinion) didn't have emotional maturity and seemed pretty self absorbed at times in not giving others the same value and respect he demanded from them. Again, a sad result of aspects of his upbringing.
[Edited 5/2/17 9:41am]

I believe this was the interview that caused a riff between P and John L. during the 90's.

Misslink88 said:

Thanks for posting this Misslink88. I often wondered why Mattie had very little to say in public.

PennyPurple said:

bsprout said:

Ch 5. I was struck yet again to read about poor Vivian Nelson dying of alcoholism. How her life pummeled downhill after John Nelson abandoned her. Did she ever stand a chance after that? What a cruel twist of fate and a tragedy. [Penny, to answer your question, I've read that alcoholism can be inherited]. Prince's entrepreneurialism, ingenuity and drive as he learns to record music is impressive. Chris Moon is an interesting character. There's no denying Prince's genuine talent, but he was lucky to cross paths with Chris. There was a lot of talent in Minneapolis, but Prince was a quick study and his star was rising more quickly than the others'. I'm sure this was not accidental; he was making calculated choices from the beginning.

It seems as if people were all at the right place, at the right time in his life. It's kinda like things just fell into place for him, but we know it really didn't and he had quite the struggle in his young life. I mean I can't imagine being 12 and not having a home to go to.

I can't stop thinking about how he acquired the instinct to be so resilient and rise above his situation, when so many others in his position don't or can't. It's really admirable to me. It's a tough world no matter how you slice it, and somehow he knew how to stand up for himself and get what he needed. That is no small feat.

Misslink88 said:

I believe this was the interview that caused a riff between P and John L. during the 90's.

oh wow...I've never seen this video. I can imagine how this would send Prince into a tizzy. thanks.

LauraTiebert said:

Misslink88 said:

Alex, were there other stories that were as disturbing that you left out?

The mosquito story came from Paul Mitchell, and what it meant to me, other than being really sad at how a coach could be so cruel to a kid, was that Prince badly wanted to hang with Duane and Paul and be one of the athletes, but that was not to be because of his size, and he turned to music instead.

Art Erickson talked about how athletics were the main way "out" of the neighborhood (Duane and Paul each won college scholarships), so it makes sense that Prince was looking at that path too. I found it really interesting that Prince had his athlete friends in one group and his music friends in another. I think a lot of us were like that in high school as we figured out where we fit in. In fact, Paul Mitchell said he was surprised when Prince landed his contract with Warners, not because he didn't think he was talented, but because he never saw Prince being a musician. And Paul spent as much time with Prince in junior high/high school as anyone. At his Aunt Olivia's, he might play guitar a little for Paul and Duane, and Paul said he just figured John taught Prince. He never knew the extent of it.

By the way, Paul is a great guy and a pleasure to interview. It made me happy that Prince had him as a friend during a time in his life when he really needed one.

wow, more interesting background info. Who would've ever thought Prince would've been anything but a musician, and yet we have this story from Paul Mitchell.

On another note, as a Prince fan, I am enjoying these background stories as we move on in the book. I have never been part of a book club before but even so, I don't think there are too many book clubs out there where the authors participate. I think this is very cool and we are lucky. Thanks again for sharing these stories.

annalizer said:

Misslink88 said:

I believe this was the interview that caused a riff between P and John L. during the 90's.

Thanks for posting this Misslink88. I often wondered why Mattie had very little to say in public.

That was so cringeworthy.

Honestly, they simply looked thirsty as Hell...and even worse these many years later cuz while I'm sure there were fans (including me) who being starved for any P info watched this at the time, I seriously doubt most of them (including me) remembers having watched them. The only thing that sticks are P's appearances, I wouldn't know the rest if I tripped over them on my way into my kitchen.

Sad that they allowed a moment on a stoopit tabloid show cause a family rift simply for 1 minute of fame.

I never remember the older sisters. Is this the one who showed Al Roker around PP when it was opening? Or is this the one who sued P over a song and has since passed away?

LBrent said:

Lol. You crack me up! Yes, that was Lorna.
Prince honestly had a cast of characters to pull from whenever he needed inspiration!
[Edited 5/2/17 10:57am]

annalizer said:

LBrent said:

That was so cringeworthy.

Honestly, they simply looked thirsty as Hell...and even worse these many years later cuz while I'm sure there were fans (including me) who being starved for any P info watched this at the time, I seriously doubt most of them (including me) remembers having watched them. The only thing that sticks are P's appearances, I wouldn't know the rest if I tripped over them on my way into my kitchen.

Sad that they allowed a moment on a stoopit tabloid show cause a family rift simply for 1 minute of fame.

I never remember the older sisters. Is this the one who showed Al Roker around PP when it was opening? Or is this the one who sued P over a song and has since passed away?

Lol. You crack me up! Yes, that was Lorna. Prince honestly had a cast of characters to pull from whenever he needed inspiration![Edited 5/2/17 10:57am]

Chiiiiile, you ain't neva lied.

LBrent said:

annalizer said:

Misslink88 said: Thanks for posting this Misslink88. I often wondered why Mattie had very little to say in public.

That was so cringeworthy.

Honestly, they simply looked thirsty as Hell...and even worse these many years later cuz while I'm sure there were fans (including me) who being starved for any P info watched this at the time, I seriously doubt most of them (including me) remembers having watched them. The only thing that sticks are P's appearances, I wouldn't know the rest if I tripped over them on my way into my kitchen.

Sad that they allowed a moment on a stoopit tabloid show cause a family rift simply for 1 minute of fame.

I never remember the older sisters. Is this the one who showed Al Roker around PP when it was opening? Or is this the one who sued P over a song and has since passed away?

That was Sharon, the one he stayed with in NY.

Sharon L. Nelson
-- Born in 1940, Sharon is Prince's half-sister. She’s the oldest of John L. Nelson’s five children from his first marriage to Vivian Nelson.
-- Sharon is a musician who released a 2009 album, 57th Street Sound, according to her Myspace page. She also co-produced her father’s 1994 EP, Father’s Song.
-- From 2009 to 2011, Nelson hosted a podcast that included an episode called "Three Generations of Music by the Nelsons," which discussed the music of Prince and his father.

bsprout said:

I can't stop thinking about how he acquired the instinct to be so resilient and rise above his situation, when so many others in his position don't or can't. It's really admirable to me. It's a tough world no matter how you slice it, and somehow he knew how to stand up for himself and get what he needed. That is no small feat.

Couldn't agree with you more. Maybe he was so self-reliant and stayed self-connected because the people around him didn't get that involved. By that I mean, we all come into this life with a sense of "self" that others then influence. In the interview Tyka did, she mentioned not knowing she was black until she went to school. This is also why, out of all his familial relationships, the one with her fascinates me the most. He was her "big" brother for a long time before he became her "brother" (the story of him teaching her to tie her shoes). Then she grows up in his shadow and it is a very large and looming one and now she's had to "step" into his life.

Misslink88 said:

Sorry for the mixup. They look so much alike.

annalizer said:

Misslink88 said:

That was Sharon, the one he stayed with in NY.

Sharon L. Nelson
-- Born in 1940, Sharon is Prince's half-sister. She’s the oldest of John L. Nelson’s five children from his first marriage to Vivian Nelson.
-- Sharon is a musician who released a 2009 album, 57th Street Sound, according to her Myspace page. She also co-produced her father’s 1994 EP, Father’s Song.
-- From 2009 to 2011, Nelson hosted a podcast that included an episode called "Three Generations of Music by the Nelsons," which discussed the music of Prince and his father.

Sorry for the mixup. They look so much alike.

No worries. I'm not sure if those podcasts are still available. They may shed some light on the dynamics as well.

Misslink88 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince's step father was ligh complexioned as well.
It seems his mother and father both dated/married only

other 'mixed' people

I'm thinking they dated/married only people they were attracted to or loved.

Sometimes I think we forget lightskin black folk may date other light skin people because no one dark is checking for them. This insane intra racsim works both ways. I never thought Prince was color struck but maybe he just could not get any dark skin girls interested in him.

Misslink88 said:

I believe this was the interview that caused a riff between P and John L. during the 90's.

I remember seeing this when it aired. Very embarrassing and now we can see from the court docs that nothing has changed with Sharon.

bsprout said:

Misslink88 said:

I believe this was the interview that caused a riff between P and John L. during the 90's.

oh wow...I've never seen this video. I can imagine how this would send Prince into a tizzy. thanks.

If I'm not mistake the riff with his father came in the latter 90s

At first I thought the vid would be someone scandelous. But it was actually pretty complimentary.
Sharon really knew nothing about the women they talked about.