I was shattered to hear about the closet. It was baffling to me, because the only question I had was "where was his mother?" I'm sure young Prince had the same question. So very, very sad. I wonder if this man is alive and what he would say to explain himself.

Black culture during this period was one of a lot of 'color coding', meaning, lighter-complections were more acceptable in white culture. I wonder if Prince was met with jealousy by his stepfather for this reason? Or was Prince in the way of his relationship with Mattie? What could cause a man to be so cruel to just Prince?

I agree with you. I think that the reason Prince was so successful was for two reasons: 1. Music became is coping mechanism and he could not function without it. For that reason, we saw the fruits of his daily personal therapy. 2. He was desperate to leave poverty and most importantly, desperate to NEVER have to rely on anyone ever again.

Think about it, no one ever really took care of Prince. So he probably figured- eff everybody, it's on me to take care of me. This chapter explains so much about him to me. I look at Paisley Park and I feel proud of him for accomplishing that, but I also know that it was his batcave.

bsprout said:

Ch 2. Hayward Baker's abuse of Prince was disturbing and difficult to read about. I had always read that Prince didn't get along with his stepfather and moved out at 12, but I thought it was because of physical abuse. I didn't realize that the abuse was also emotional. It seems like he was jealous/resentful of Prince. Reading about Prince having to pick dandelions for half a day, being locked in his room for hours and associating his piano with loneliness was heartbreaking. I wondered to what extent Mattie was aware of this and what (if any) support she provided Prince while this was happening. We know his mother issues also haunted him his whole life. It's incredible that Prince was able to find a way to succeed and thrive despite such challenging conditions at a young age. It says a lot about Prince's fierce self-reliance and discipline, ironically learned from his father.

LoriJ said:

Chapter 2

I was quite surprised to learn that his step father was the one who locked him in the closet.

On The Larry King interview when asked about his relatioship with his father, he said he was strict.

I'm one year older than Prince, for our geneneration spanking was the norm. and for teens, especially males, things could get rough.

I do realize the emotional abuse by his biological father is just as bad as physical. The not letting him touch the piano, the abandonment etc.

It's very sad that there was not a loving father figure in his life.

I agree, spanking was the norm back then. I got spanked with belts, & switchs.

bsprout said:

Ch 2. Hayward Baker's abuse of Prince was disturbing and difficult to read about. I had always read that Prince didn't get along with his stepfather and moved out at 12, but I thought it was because of physical abuse. I didn't realize that the abuse was also emotional. It seems like he was jealous/resentful of Prince. Reading about Prince having to pick dandelions for half a day, being locked in his room for hours and associating his piano with loneliness was heartbreaking. I wondered to what extent Mattie was aware of this and what (if any) support she provided Prince while this was happening. We know his mother issues also haunted him his whole life. It's incredible that Prince was able to find a way to succeed and thrive despite such challenging conditions at a young age. It says a lot about Prince's fierce self-reliance and discipline, ironically learned from his father.

I tend to think that Mattie did know of this, how could she not? Where's Prince? I haven't seen him all day, oh yeah, he's in the closet...the same with the dandelions.

.

I thought that he got kicked out of his dad's house because his dad walked in on him having sex. But maybe he left his mom's house, moved in with his dad and then got kicked out of his dad's house, and that's when he moved in with the Anderson's.

.

And what happened with Tyka at this same time? How did the step father treat her? Did she get better treatment because she was a girl?

.

The childhood that Prince led definitely stayed with him his entire life.

PennyPurple said:

I tend to think that Mattie did know of this, how could she not? Where's Prince? I haven't seen him all day, oh yeah, he's in the closet...the same with the dandelions.

.

I thought that he got kicked out of his dad's house because his dad walked in on him having sex. But maybe he left his mom's house, moved in with his dad and then got kicked out of his dad's house, and that's when he moved in with the Anderson's.

.

And what happened with Tyka at this same time? How did the step father treat her? Did she get better treatment because she was a girl?

.

The childhood that Prince led definitely stayed with him his entire life.

It's odd how Mattie wouldn't have seen/known about this, even at some point, isn't it? It's no wonder he was so screwed up about women.

I wonder about Tyka, too.

Yes, getting kicked out of his dad's house happened later when he moved in with his dad and his dad caught him having sex.

That's interesting. Care to elaborate?

[/quote]

I'm not from the area but have deep family roots in the area and spent time with relatives in the area...I'm older than prince and I remember sitting around kitchen tables with relatives in the late fifties and sixties and hearing that remark..sometimes other words were substituted for "bad". And these discussions were usually accompanied by some reference about how they didn't have the problems of Milwaukee or Chicago cuz the cold weather kept "them" out.

According to advertisements I've seen, prince's father played in some of these areas and prince himself has referenced playing "white" music in the area when he was young. And, watch his expression when he says this..I see a little knowing smirk...

I hope I'm not being too controversial or explicit...but, as a child I remember being offended by the remarks and I can vividly remember the discussions and the people involved...unfortunately, they were some of my favorite relatives and it was hard to reconcile my love for them with the hateful remarks.

NickiStarr said:

I agree with you. I think that the reason Prince was so successful was for two reasons: 1. Music became is coping mechanism and he could not function without it. For that reason, we saw the fruits of his daily personal therapy. 2. He was desperate to leave poverty and most importantly, desperate to NEVER have to rely on anyone ever again.

Think about it, no one ever really took care of Prince. So he probably figured- eff everybody, it's on me to take care of me. This chapter explains so much about him to me. I look at Paisley Park and I feel proud of him for accomplishing that, but I also know that it was his batcave.

bsprout said:

Ch 2. Hayward Baker's abuse of Prince was disturbing and difficult to read about. I had always read that Prince didn't get along with his stepfather and moved out at 12, but I thought it was because of physical abuse. I didn't realize that the abuse was also emotional. It seems like he was jealous/resentful of Prince. Reading about Prince having to pick dandelions for half a day, being locked in his room for hours and associating his piano with loneliness was heartbreaking. I wondered to what extent Mattie was aware of this and what (if any) support she provided Prince while this was happening. We know his mother issues also haunted him his whole life. It's incredible that Prince was able to find a way to succeed and thrive despite such challenging conditions at a young age. It says a lot about Prince's fierce self-reliance and discipline, ironically learned from his father.

We sure did 'see the fruits of his personal therapy'...welll said.

Regarding his personality, I had the same reaction; this chapter also explained a lot for me. I had always read about his supposed abuse/neglect, but not in such detail. I've always appreciated and been in awe of his musical talent, but knowing that he was able to accomplish all of this despite his upbringing is really mind-blowing and impressive to me. Music saved his (short) life.

bsprout said:

Exactly my thoughts

803 said:

That's interesting. Care to elaborate?

[803's comment]: I'm not from the area but have deep family roots in the area and spent time with relatives in the area...I'm older than prince and I remember sitting around kitchen tables with relatives in the late fifties and sixties and hearing that remark..sometimes other words were substituted for "bad". And these discussions were usually accompanied by some reference about how they didn't have the problems of Milwaukee or Chicago cuz the cold weather kept "them" out. According to advertisements I've seen, prince's father played in some of these areas and prince himself has referenced playing "white" music in the area when he was young. And, watch his expression when he says this..I see a little knowing smirk... I hope I'm not being too controversial or explicit...but, as a child I remember being offended by the remarks and I can vividly remember the discussions and the people involved...unfortunately, they were some of my favorite relatives and it was hard to reconcile my love for them with the hateful remarks. [803]

[bsprout] Thanks for sharing. If he was being sarcastic, that smirk while he says this would be very Prince-like, indeed.

[Edited 4/28/17 8:52am]

[Edited 4/28/17 8:56am]

LoriJ said:

This obviously had a negative impact and set the tone for repeating some of the same patterns in his own life

[bsprout] Thanks for sharing. If he was being sarcastic, that smirk while he says this would be very Prince-like, indeed.

That wasn't an easy piece of info to share ..I shared it because I thought it might help people understand a little bit of the world that he grew up in.

PennyPurple said:

LauraTiebert said:

Wanted to pop in and say hi and thanks for doing this book group!

Alex did the research on this chapter, and when the pattern of abandonment surfaced in John Nelson's family, we were both pretty stunned, since it was the same sad story playing out time and again. We also were riveted by John L. Nelson himself. He is quite the compelling and complex character, and we could have written another couple of chapters on him alone, but we forced ourselves back to the subject at hand.

As a woman, I have to say, the abandonment issue is hard to stomach. Think back to those days, when career opportunities were few for women. They likely received modest monetary support and were left in a desperate economic situation. Imagine Mattie's relief when Haywood appeared on the scene ...

[Edited 4/27/17 16:53pm]

If the women and kids got support at all. Maybe that's why Mattie felt compelled to marry. I'm still wondering if Mattie raised Alfred, Jr.?

Great point. Mattie did not raise Alfred Jr. He was raised by his father's family in Kansas City, Missouri. Mattie visited, and Alfred came to Mpls to visit, but he grew up in Missouri. Check out these court documents for more details: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...hibits.pdf

803 said:

[bsprout] Thanks for sharing. If he was being sarcastic, that smirk while he says this would be very Prince-like, indeed.

That wasn't an easy piece of info to share ..I shared it because I thought it might help people understand a little bit of the world that he grew up in.

I'm really glad you shared it--it's fascinating and creates a whole new layer for that quote, which always struck me as kind of a banal thing to say. So much of Prince's racial attitudes are beneath the surface: he clearly identified unambiguously as a Black man, but he played with his identity so much that it opened the door for a lot of people to misinterpret it.

Interesting stuff. So was he actually in traditional therapy at that time or did he mean that playing music was his therapy. As a therapist, I would imagine Prince would be really hard to engage in deep reflective talk, especially when he was so young. If he indeed get something out of therapy back then, it seems like he might have considered it later?

dystopiandanceparty said:

803 said:

[bsprout] Thanks for sharing. If he was being sarcastic, that smirk while he says this would be very Prince-like, indeed.

That wasn't an easy piece of info to share ..I shared it because I thought it might help people understand a little bit of the world that he grew up in.

I'm really glad you shared it--it's fascinating and creates a whole new layer for that quote, which always struck me as kind of a banal thing to say. So much of Prince's racial attitudes are beneath the surface: he clearly identified unambiguously as a Black man, but he played with his identity so much that it opened the door for a lot of people to misinterpret it.

Wow. That is fascinating indeed, and sadly, I can completely imagine it. I wonder if Oprah understood the alternative meaning when he said it to her in that interview.

NickiStarr said:

I was shattered to hear about the closet. It was baffling to me, because the only question I had was "where was his mother?" I'm sure young Prince had the same question. So very, very sad. I wonder if this man is alive and what he would say to explain himself.

Black culture during this period was one of a lot of 'color coding', meaning, lighter-complections were more acceptable in white culture. I wonder if Prince was met with jealousy by his stepfather for this reason? Or was Prince in the way of his relationship with Mattie? What could cause a man to be so cruel to just Prince?

I hear you, and shattered is exactly the way to put it. Hearing the story reminded me of my own family story that as a 5-year-old, my great-grandmother was locked in a closet by her stepmother. Imagine doing that to a 5-year-old, knowing how scared of the dark children are, and how claustrophic and trapped and powerless they would feel. It makes me sick.

Art Erickson told me that he had a thousand kids in his summer camp programs and that every single one of them had a bad home situation, and that as bad as Prince's situation was, it was not even the worst. For a sensitive creative boy like Prince, being locked away and not protected by his own mother, and his father having abandoned them, had to be devastating. What should hearten us is that these punishments did NOT break his spirit. Far from it.

LauraTiebert said:

NickiStarr said:

I was shattered to hear about the closet. It was baffling to me, because the only question I had was "where was his mother?" I'm sure young Prince had the same question. So very, very sad. I wonder if this man is alive and what he would say to explain himself.

Black culture during this period was one of a lot of 'color coding', meaning, lighter-complections were more acceptable in white culture. I wonder if Prince was met with jealousy by his stepfather for this reason? Or was Prince in the way of his relationship with Mattie? What could cause a man to be so cruel to just Prince?

I hear you, and shattered is exactly the way to put it. Hearing the story reminded me of my own family story that as a 5-year-old, my great-grandmother was locked in a closet by her stepmother. Imagine doing that to a 5-year-old, knowing how scared of the dark children are, and how claustrophic and trapped and powerless they would feel. It makes me sick.

Art Erickson told me that he had a thousand kids in his summer camp programs and that every single one of them had a bad home situation, and that as bad as Prince's situation was, it was not even the worst. For a sensitive creative boy like Prince, being locked away and not protected by his own mother, and his father having abandoned them, had to be devastating. What should hearten us is that these punishments did NOT break his spirit. Far from it.

Well said, if anything, it inspired and motivated Prince even more. What Prince overcame and accomplished will very rarely be seen. I can only equate it to winning the lottery not once, but 10 times (if not more) in one's life.

Art Erickson...

Laura...after prince's death I watched a tv show in which a man told the story about prince and being locked in his room...I didn't catch the name of the man but it was the same story that is in the epilogue of your book..however, on the show this person also told a story of meeting with prince at school and how prince used to sit all by himself at lunch. I think this may have occurred when prince was being bused to a non-neighborhood school. The man also said that prince was a kid that was specifically identified for him to talk to.

Did you hear this story? If so, what was the background to the story?

803 said:

[bsprout] Thanks for sharing. If he was being sarcastic, that smirk while he says this would be very Prince-like, indeed.

That wasn't an easy piece of info to share ..I shared it because I thought it might help people understand a little bit of the world that he grew up in.

I can imagine it wasn't easy to share. Thanks again.

803 said:

Art Erickson... Laura...after prince's death I watched a tv show in which a man told the story about prince and being locked in his room...I didn't catch the name of the man but it was the same story that is in the epilogue of your book..however, on the show this person also told a story of meeting with prince at school and how prince used to sit all by himself at lunch. I think this may have occurred when prince was being bused to a non-neighborhood school. The man also said that prince was a kid that was specifically identified for him to talk to. Did you hear this story? If so, what was the background to the story?

Yes - the man you saw interviewed had to have been Art Erickson. He ate lunch with Prince many days at school, and the principal allowed him into the school cafeteria because Art was launching a lot of neighborhood programs and needed to connect with students. He said Prince was a loner - and he thought it may have been that because of the color of his skin, Prince didn't quite fit in any of the established cliques.

Art is an brilliant man with a huge heart and he has done great things in Mpls. In addition to Prince, Art also knew Paul Mitchell, Duane Nelson (he was the minister who presided over Duane's funeral), Kirk and Kevin Johnson and many, many others. He is also an expert on father abandonment and was extremely helpful to us in understanding that aspect of Prince's life. I was able to meet and interview Art at his offices at Urban Ventures. Check out his amazing work here: https://urbanventures.org/

LauraTiebert said:

NickiStarr said:

I was shattered to hear about the closet. It was baffling to me, because the only question I had was "where was his mother?" I'm sure young Prince had the same question. So very, very sad. I wonder if this man is alive and what he would say to explain himself.

Black culture during this period was one of a lot of 'color coding', meaning, lighter-complections were more acceptable in white culture. I wonder if Prince was met with jealousy by his stepfather for this reason? Or was Prince in the way of his relationship with Mattie? What could cause a man to be so cruel to just Prince?

I hear you, and shattered is exactly the way to put it. Hearing the story reminded me of my own family story that as a 5-year-old, my great-grandmother was locked in a closet by her stepmother. Imagine doing that to a 5-year-old, knowing how scared of the dark children are, and how claustrophic and trapped and powerless they would feel. It makes me sick.

Art Erickson told me that he had a thousand kids in his summer camp programs and that every single one of them had a bad home situation, and that as bad as Prince's situation was, it was not even the worst. For a sensitive creative boy like Prince, being locked away and not protected by his own mother, and his father having abandoned them, had to be devastating. What should hearten us is that these punishments did NOT break his spirit. Far from it.

It's good to know that his spirit was not broken. I read a lot of comments saying Prince was 'broken.' I can only wonder if a licensed therapist would evaluate him as such. I say this only because I've been told that going through psychologically damaging stuff does not necessarily qualify someone as being 'broken'. I have often wondered how a therapist identifies someone as broken vs. psychologically damaged. Is there a textbook definition? (I'm not directing this question to you, Laura, I'm just thinking out loud)

[Edited 4/28/17 13:01pm]

LauraTiebert said:

803 said:

Art Erickson... Laura...after prince's death I watched a tv show in which a man told the story about prince and being locked in his room...I didn't catch the name of the man but it was the same story that is in the epilogue of your book..however, on the show this person also told a story of meeting with prince at school and how prince used to sit all by himself at lunch. I think this may have occurred when prince was being bused to a non-neighborhood school. The man also said that prince was a kid that was specifically identified for him to talk to. Did you hear this story? If so, what was the background to the story?

Yes - the man you saw interviewed had to have been Art Erickson. He ate lunch with Prince many days at school, and the principal allowed him into the school cafeteria because Art was launching a lot of neighborhood programs and needed to connect with students. He said Prince was a loner - and he thought it may have been that because of the color of his skin, Prince didn't quite fit in any of the established cliques.

Art is an brilliant man with a huge heart and he has done great things in Mpls. In addition to Prince, Art also knew Paul Mitchell, Duane Nelson (he was the minister who presided over Duane's funeral), Kirk and Kevin Johnson and many, many others. He is also an expert on father abandonment and was extremely helpful to us in understanding that aspect of Prince's life. I was able to meet and interview Art at his offices at Urban Ventures. Check out his amazing work here: https://urbanventures.org/

That is interesting. In the book when Prince meets Art Erickson I was temporarily relieved, because reading the abuse he suffered with Hayward Baker was depressing. I practically felt a visceral need to rescue Prince from that awful environment with his stepfather. Then when the book mentions that the next summer at camp Erickson photographs Prince and the smile is gone, my heart just sank. Anyway, God bless Art Erickson for the positive role he played in Prince's life, however fleeting.

LauraTiebert said:

PennyPurple said:

If the women and kids got support at all. Maybe that's why Mattie felt compelled to marry. I'm still wondering if Mattie raised Alfred, Jr.?

Great point. Mattie did not raise Alfred Jr. He was raised by his father's family in Kansas City, Missouri. Mattie visited, and Alfred came to Mpls to visit, but he grew up in Missouri. Check out these court documents for more details: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...hibits.pdf

Wow! Thanks for sharing that interesting link.

.

So when Mattie left Alfred Sr, and went back to MN, she had Alfred Jr with her, but at a later date brought Alfred Jr, back to Kansas City (my hometown) and asked Alfred Sr and his parents to keep Alfred Jr.

.

Alfred Jr, was Matties 1st child.

.

In the document it said that this Venita couldn't find any record of divorce between Alfred Sr, and Mattie????

PennyPurple said:

LauraTiebert said:

Great point. Mattie did not raise Alfred Jr. He was raised by his father's family in Kansas City, Missouri. Mattie visited, and Alfred came to Mpls to visit, but he grew up in Missouri. Check out these court documents for more details: http://www.mncourts.gov/m...hibits.pdf

Wow! Thanks for sharing that interesting link.

.

So when Mattie left Alfred Sr, and went back to MN, she had Alfred Jr with her, but at a later date brought Alfred Jr, back to Kansas City (my hometown) and asked Alfred Sr and his parents to keep Alfred Jr.

.

Alfred Jr, was Matties 1st child.

.

In the document it said that this Venita couldn't find any record of divorce between Alfred Sr, and Mattie????

Yes - interesting, huh? The question I asked myself is, when did Mattie bring Alfred Jr back to Kansas City? Was it after she met John Nelson? Or before she met him?

Whatever happened with Mattie and Alfred Sr. and those divorce records, she was clearly free to marry John Nelson.

bsprout said:

LauraTiebert said:

Yes - the man you saw interviewed had to have been Art Erickson. He ate lunch with Prince many days at school, and the principal allowed him into the school cafeteria because Art was launching a lot of neighborhood programs and needed to connect with students. He said Prince was a loner - and he thought it may have been that because of the color of his skin, Prince didn't quite fit in any of the established cliques.

Art is an brilliant man with a huge heart and he has done great things in Mpls. In addition to Prince, Art also knew Paul Mitchell, Duane Nelson (he was the minister who presided over Duane's funeral), Kirk and Kevin Johnson and many, many others. He is also an expert on father abandonment and was extremely helpful to us in understanding that aspect of Prince's life. I was able to meet and interview Art at his offices at Urban Ventures. Check out his amazing work here: https://urbanventures.org/

That is interesting. In the book when Prince meets Art Erickson I was temporarily relieved, because reading the abuse he suffered with Hayward Baker was depressing. I practically felt a visceral need to rescue Prince from that awful environment with his stepfather. Then when the book mentions that the next summer at camp Erickson photographs Prince and the smile is gone, my heart just sank. Anyway, God bless Art Erickson for the positive role he played in Prince's life, however fleeting.

Agree - God bless Art and everyone who helps kids in Prince's situation.

There is a poignant story behind the "summer camp" videos and how we came to know about them. I promise to tell the story when we get to the Epilogue.

NickiStarr said:

I agree with you. I think that the reason Prince was so successful was for two reasons: 1. Music became is coping mechanism and he could not function without it. For that reason, we saw the fruits of his daily personal therapy. 2. He was desperate to leave poverty and most importantly, desperate to NEVER have to rely on anyone ever again.

Think about it, no one ever really took care of Prince. So he probably figured- eff everybody, it's on me to take care of me. This chapter explains so much about him to me. I look at Paisley Park and I feel proud of him for accomplishing that, but I also know that it was his batcave.

bsprout said:

Ch 2. Hayward Baker's abuse of Prince was disturbing and difficult to read about. I had always read that Prince didn't get along with his stepfather and moved out at 12, but I thought it was because of physical abuse. I didn't realize that the abuse was also emotional. It seems like he was jealous/resentful of Prince. Reading about Prince having to pick dandelions for half a day, being locked in his room for hours and associating his piano with loneliness was heartbreaking. I wondered to what extent Mattie was aware of this and what (if any) support she provided Prince while this was happening. We know his mother issues also haunted him his whole life. It's incredible that Prince was able to find a way to succeed and thrive despite such challenging conditions at a young age. It says a lot about Prince's fierce self-reliance and discipline, ironically learned from his father.

Batcave! Love that. So true. Prince had such a longing for home and community, and at the same time, an equally strong need to withdraw and be left alone (in his batcave). There is a story in here somewhere about Prince and home that I'm thinking could be an interesting article. It's extremely unusual for a star of his magnitude to remain in his home state (especially when his home state is a cold, Midwestern state). With the exception of Elvis, I can't think of many other examples.

Well it looks like Alfred Jr, wasn't a JR. after all, his dad's name was Alfred B. Jackson, his name is Alfred Frank Alonzo Jackson.

http://www.mncourts.gov/m...trator.pdf

The following is from an interview from ET with Alfred.

.

Another poster on the forum had said that Alfred still lived in KC and wasn't mentally capable to sign any kind of legal paperwork and someone had his power of attorney so they could sign for him......Looks like that poster didn't know what she was talking about....(as usual)

Jackson, who joined the Air Force when he was 21 years old and now resides in St. Cloud, Minnesota, says he hadn't spoken to Prince in 15 years.

http://www.etonline.com/n...ies_grief//

LauraTiebert said:

PennyPurple said:

Wow! Thanks for sharing that interesting link.

.

So when Mattie left Alfred Sr, and went back to MN, she had Alfred Jr with her, but at a later date brought Alfred Jr, back to Kansas City (my hometown) and asked Alfred Sr and his parents to keep Alfred Jr.

.

Alfred Jr, was Matties 1st child.

.

In the document it said that this Venita couldn't find any record of divorce between Alfred Sr, and Mattie????

Yes - interesting, huh? The question I asked myself is, when did Mattie bring Alfred Jr back to Kansas City? Was it after she met John Nelson? Or before she met him?

Whatever happened with Mattie and Alfred Sr. and those divorce records, she was clearly free to marry John Nelson.

Hi Laura. Did you ever get an answer to these questions? If I remember correctly, in the legal documents, wasn't there a DNA test that excluded Leverette and that's why there are only the current 5 presumed heirs?

Misslink88 said:

Hi Laura. Did you ever get an answer to these questions? If I remember correctly, in the legal documents, wasn't there a DNA test that excluded Leverette and that's why there are only the current 5 presumed heirs?

Of course she was excluded, Alfred wasn't Prince's father, she probably just wanted a piece of the pie.

Misslink88 said:

LauraTiebert said:

Yes - interesting, huh? The question I asked myself is, when did Mattie bring Alfred Jr back to Kansas City? Was it after she met John Nelson? Or before she met him?

Whatever happened with Mattie and Alfred Sr. and those divorce records, she was clearly free to marry John Nelson.

Hi Laura. Did you ever get an answer to these questions? If I remember correctly, in the legal documents, wasn't there a DNA test that excluded Leverette and that's why there are only the current 5 presumed heirs?

We did not get answers to these questions, as this information surfaced after the book was written. However, this is a great example of the type of research we did, and debating back and forth what the sequence of events was. (I didn't mean to imply that John Nelson might be the father of Alfred).