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Reply #540 posted 05/28/17 2:49pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Vashtix said:

Chapter 19 Dreams Come True Pages, 207-221

Prince is ready to make his dream to make a movie real

*

Prince approaches Warner Bros. using not resigning with them as leverage to get the movie deal

*

Alan Leeds uproots his family, moves to Minneapolis becoming friend, manager , and gofer to Prince

*

Prince begins writing songs for the movie

*

Wendy Melvoin replaces Dez Dickerson

*

Albert Magnoli becomes writer-Director replacing William Blinn

*

The Revolution makes its debut August 3, 1983 at First Avenue, first time Purple Rain played in public

*

Prince meets Susannah Melvoin

*

Morris Day and Vanity both are frustrated and soured as puppet band leaders turn to substances to cope

*

The Time loses important band members Terry Lewis and Jimmy Harris when they are fired by Prince, Monte Moir and Jellybean Johnson quit

*

Vanity is “fired” from the movie and replaced by Patricia Kotero, who Prince names Appolonia

*

Shooting for the movie begins in Minneapolis, November 1983

*

Prince completes work on 3 albums ( Sheila E.,Appolonia 6’,The Time)

*

When Doves Cry is released May 1984 with no baseline (which was unheard of at that time) skyrockets to #1 on pop charts

*

Prince maintains harem lifestyle juggling Susannah, Jill, Sheila E. and others

*

June 7 1984 Prince turns 26, throws a Birthday party at First Avenue inviting friends, family and others

*

Purple Rain soundtrack and movie is released making Prince into an international superstar

Thank you Vashtix.

.

In this book it says that V had affairs with both men and women to taunt P. P was enraged when she had an affair with Albert Magnoli, and he fired V from Purple Rain. V said she left over money issues and in order for her to save face, P let her say that.

.

It has been brought up time and time again that V wasn't fired, she quit. Wonder which is true?

.

The jealousy that he had towards Susannah Melvoin because she already had a boyfriend, helped inspire the Beautiful Ones.

.

susannah M. moved to MN to be with him, she thought she would be the only one. Then comes Sheila E.

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Reply #541 posted 05/28/17 2:59pm

206Michelle

tigerlilyluv said:

Misslink88 said:

There are a couple of things that don't add up and the dates are hard to peg down. "I met him at the AMA's" sounds better than "I was a groupie" for one thing. The modelling world, especially at the time, was rampant with coke use (an addiction she had, but then again, Rick was a user so she might have picked it up there). When she was with Adam Ant, they ran into Rick James at a gig or party and he said something quite distasteful to her that would indicate they knew each other prior. Adam Ant was after Rick, but before P and that's the date that is hard to peg. However, the AMA story may be what really happened it's just whether or not it was 1980 or 1982. Depending on the date, the key players change.

From what Denise said, she didn't get heavy into smoking coke until when she was with Prince and that she did it to stand up to him. We all know, at least from those that were involved confessed, how harsh Prince would be at times. But she also made sure the world knew her choosing to smoke coke was her own choice and Prince wasn't to blame. I read her entire Facebook posts and was saddened to find out that her father even punched her in the face! There's no telling how bad that abuse went. Then she meet Prince and maybe it was too much to go through (the way she was being treated), I'm assuming.

I wonder if this history of abuse that Denise experienced played a role in her turning down the leading lady role in Purple Rain because she would be the recipient of abuse in the film. Even though the abuse would be dramatic in nature, perhaps even acting out the abuse would, as the saying goes, hit too close to home.

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #542 posted 05/28/17 3:05pm

luvgirl

Sorry for revisiting a past chapter if it's not allowed. I wanted to participate more in this thread but was extremely busy this weekend. I hope it's okay.
One last thing about those dates and then I'll move on. Sorry LBrent, lol

As per OFFS observation in a post to me, the photo below is from the early Controversy period. Prince's hair is still shorter like the 1981 Prince. By 1982 his hair was much longer and looking like the 1999 Prince, so it seems again that she met him before 1982. Another clue, tracking for The Walk took place January 14, 1982. AMA didn't take place until January 25th 1982, so if these dates are correct they hadn't even met yet.

photo image_zpsxhjnetmu.jpegAnother

Another discrepancy is with Dez's comment, implying that Vanity showed up on the bus days after meeting Prince at the AMA. Vanity has referenced many times in articles, interviews, and her own book that Prince at one time or another was pursuing her to move to Minneapolis. She has mentioned that Prince told her "If you love me, you'll move to Minneapolis with me, and let me make you a star. "They had to at one time or another, had a long distance relationship where Prince was pursuing her, and she didn't seem to be falling for his line to make her a star right away. Remember that she wrote that he even blocked her from a concert because they were arguing about her moving to Minneapolis. Also, In her book she implies that they were together, broke up, and got back together again at some point before even moving there.. She said "I had met no man like him, unsolved though he was and oh so romantically intelligent. I fell in love with this young genius, and to the best of my understanding, he fell in love with me. I held onto my reckless roller coaster of a ride until I was dizzy and out of breath, and then I bought another ticket to ride. "Nevertheless I packed my bags and headed for Minneapolis, skidding rubber tracks behind me." This would explain how she just seemed to appear in 1982 and people were Grasping for straws about how and when they met. Saying things like, "the story goes" lol.
[Edited 5/28/17 16:10pm]
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Reply #543 posted 05/28/17 3:10pm

Vashtix

We know from Prince himself the Beautiful Ones was not for Susannah but in fact for Vanity, He said that in an article in Ebony and he said it the P&M concert.

Susan Rodgers and Hahn and Wendy/Lisa all hype Prince and Susannah to be something more than we have found out it was. In the end she was part of the harem like all the rest. Per Jill Jones podcast he told her he had to get engage. Sounds like some deal was brokered.

Once I learned that the songs were not for Susannah and once other things started to surface I realized there were different factions in the camp. Susannah had hers of course that was her twin Wendy., Wendy's girl Lisa and Susan Rodgers and the rest.

The old school had a camp. Prince embraced the Susannah camp for a minute.

I do not for one minute believe that Albert Magnoli would life for Vanity and say she was fired or others surrounding the film. I appreciate Vanity but she was not the superstar that people would want to worry about embarrassing.

I do not know why her sexuality or Prince's is such a big deal. I keep reading he and she were bisexual. I really do not get why that means anything to anyone.

Alex Hahn said some things that have been proven not true-Susannah herself said she met Prince Christmastime so that was not the summer when Wendy played at First Avenue.

I know people swear by this book but the facts do not add up to what the players themselves have said.

He tried to say Vanity was a blip and nothing and Susan Moonsie was the real girlfriend and we have it from those on the triple threat tour that was not the case. It is all messy and I am wish all the biases were thrown away and we could someone to share that was truly not in anyone's camp and would just lay it out.

Do not tell me how Prince felt clearly he had the women in the same category because he played them all ALL.

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Reply #544 posted 05/28/17 3:12pm

luvgirl

PennyPurple said:



Vashtix said:


Chapter 19 Dreams Come True Pages, 207-221



Prince is ready to make his dream to make a movie real


*


Prince approaches Warner Bros. using not resigning with them as leverage to get the movie deal


*


Alan Leeds uproots his family, moves to Minneapolis becoming friend, manager , and gofer to Prince


*


Prince begins writing songs for the movie


*


Wendy Melvoin replaces Dez Dickerson


*


Albert Magnoli becomes writer-Director replacing William Blinn


*


The Revolution makes its debut August 3, 1983 at First Avenue, first time Purple Rain played in public


*


Prince meets Susannah Melvoin


*


Morris Day and Vanity both are frustrated and soured as puppet band leaders turn to substances to cope


*


The Time loses important band members Terry Lewis and Jimmy Harris when they are fired by Prince, Monte Moir and Jellybean Johnson quit


*


Vanity is “fired” from the movie and replaced by Patricia Kotero, who Prince names Appolonia


*


Shooting for the movie begins in Minneapolis, November 1983


*


Prince completes work on 3 albums ( Sheila E.,Appolonia 6’,The Time)


*


When Doves Cry is released May 1984 with no baseline (which was unheard of at that time) skyrockets to #1 on pop charts


*


Prince maintains harem lifestyle juggling Susannah, Jill, Sheila E. and others


*


June 7 1984 Prince turns 26, throws a Birthday party at First Avenue inviting friends, family and others


*


Purple Rain soundtrack and movie is released making Prince into an international superstar




Thank you Vashtix.


.


In this book it says that V had affairs with both men and women to taunt P. P was enraged when she had an affair with Albert Magnoli, and he fired V from Purple Rain. V said she left over money issues and in order for her to save face, P let her say that.


.


It has been brought up time and time again that V wasn't fired, she quit. Wonder which is true?


.


The jealousy that he had towards Susannah Melvoin because she already had a boyfriend, helped inspire the Beautiful Ones.


.


susannah M. moved to MN to be with him, she thought she would be the only one. Then comes Sheila E.





lol Geeze Louise... I don't have the time right now.. Don't even get me started on who inspired The Beautiful Ones or if Vanity was fired or quit. I'm backing away slowly... razz
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Reply #545 posted 05/28/17 3:14pm

PennyPurple

avatar

It almost has to be before 1982 when they met. BTW, look how young they looked in this picture. biggrin

luvgirl said:

Sorry for revisiting a past chapter if it's not allowed. I wanted to participate more in this thread but was extremely busy this weekend. I hope it's okay. One last thing about those dates and then I'll move on. Sorry LBrent, lol As per OFFS observation in a post to me, the photo below is from the early Controversy period. Prince's hair is still shorter like the 1981 Prince. By 1982 his hair was much longer and looking like the 1999 Prince, so it seems again that she mey him before 1982. Another clue, tracking for The Walk took place January 14, 1982. AMA didn't take place until January 25th 1982, so if these dates are correct they haden't even met yet. photo image_zpsxhjnetmu.jpegAnother Another discrepancy is with Dez's comment, implying that Vanity showed up on the bus days after meeting Prince at the AMA. Vanity has referenced many times in articles, interviews, and her own book that Prince at one time or another was pursuing her to move to Minneapolis. She has mentioned that Prince told her "If you love me, you'll move to Minneapolis with me, and let me make you a star. "They had to at one time or another, had a long distance relationship where Prince was pursuing her, and she didn't seem to be falling for his line to make her a star right away. Remember that she wrote that he even blocked her from a concert because they were arguing about her moving to Minneapolis. Also, In her book she implies that they were together, broke up, and got back together again at some point. She said "I had met no man like him, unsolved though he was and oh so romantically intelligent. I fell in love with this young genius, and to the best of my understanding, he fell in love with me. I held onto my reckless roller coaster of a ride until I was dizzy and out of breath, and then I bought another ticket to ride. "Nevertheless I packed my bags and headed for Minneapolis, skidding rubber tracks behind me." This would explain how she just seemed to appear in 1982 and people were Grasping for straws about how and when they met. Saying things like, "the story goes" lol.

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Reply #546 posted 05/28/17 3:15pm

Vashtix

luvgirl said:

Sorry for revisiting a past chapter if it's not allowed. I wanted to participate more in this thread but was extremely busy this weekend. I hope it's okay. One last thing about those dates and then I'll move on. Sorry LBrent, lol As per OFFS observation in a post to me, the photo below is from the early Controversy period. Prince's hair is still shorter like the 1981 Prince. By 1982 his hair was much longer and looking like the 1999 Prince, so it seems again that she mey him before 1982. Another clue, tracking for The Walk took place January 14, 1982. AMA didn't take place until January 25th 1982, so if these dates are correct they haden't even met yet. photo image_zpsxhjnetmu.jpegAnother Another discrepancy is with Dez's comment, implying that Vanity showed up on the bus days after meeting Prince at the AMA. Vanity has referenced many times in articles, interviews, and her own book that Prince at one time or another was pursuing her to move to Minneapolis. She has mentioned that Prince told her "If you love me, you'll move to Minneapolis with me, and let me make you a star. "They had to at one time or another, had a long distance relationship where Prince was pursuing her, and she didn't seem to be falling for his line to make her a star right away. Remember that she wrote that he even blocked her from a concert because they were arguing about her moving to Minneapolis. Also, In her book she implies that they were together, broke up, and got back together again at some point. She said "I had met no man like him, unsolved though he was and oh so romantically intelligent. I fell in love with this young genius, and to the best of my understanding, he fell in love with me. I held onto my reckless roller coaster of a ride until I was dizzy and out of breath, and then I bought another ticket to ride. "Nevertheless I packed my bags and headed for Minneapolis, skidding rubber tracks behind me." This would explain how she just seemed to appear in 1982 and people were Grasping for straws about how and when they met. Saying things like, "the story goes" lol.

I had forgotten about Vanity's book. That is correct he did pursue her and she had no idea of the other women until she got to Minneapolis. That is why the stuff about Susan Moonsie is off too.

Hahn's attempt to act as if there was no relationship is perplexing. It is also perplexing he did not find it important to correct the Beautiful Ones was not written for Susannah.

This is why I just can't with this book, there is so much that is off.

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Reply #547 posted 05/28/17 3:16pm

PennyPurple

avatar

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said:

Thank you Vashtix.

.

In this book it says that V had affairs with both men and women to taunt P. P was enraged when she had an affair with Albert Magnoli, and he fired V from Purple Rain. V said she left over money issues and in order for her to save face, P let her say that.

.

It has been brought up time and time again that V wasn't fired, she quit. Wonder which is true?

.

The jealousy that he had towards Susannah Melvoin because she already had a boyfriend, helped inspire the Beautiful Ones.

.

susannah M. moved to MN to be with him, she thought she would be the only one. Then comes Sheila E.

lol Geeze Louise... I don't have the time right now.. Don't even get me started on who inspired The Beautiful Ones or if Vanity was fired or quit. I'm backing away slowly... razz

lol Talk to the Authors. lol

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Reply #548 posted 05/28/17 3:18pm

Vashtix

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said:

Thank you Vashtix.

.

In this book it says that V had affairs with both men and women to taunt P. P was enraged when she had an affair with Albert Magnoli, and he fired V from Purple Rain. V said she left over money issues and in order for her to save face, P let her say that.

.

It has been brought up time and time again that V wasn't fired, she quit. Wonder which is true?

.

The jealousy that he had towards Susannah Melvoin because she already had a boyfriend, helped inspire the Beautiful Ones.

.

susannah M. moved to MN to be with him, she thought she would be the only one. Then comes Sheila E.

lol Geeze Louise... I don't have the time right now.. Don't even get me started on who inspired The Beautiful Ones or if Vanity was fired or quit. I'm backing away slowly... razz

Please come back.

I wish Alex Hahn would address why he let that remain in the book as fact. Prince totally dissed that prior to his transition.

Why would Susannah move to Minneapolis knowing Prince had women. The harem was maintained it was the way Prince lived.

They look like babies in that pic - so fresh faced and beautiful

[Edited 5/28/17 15:19pm]

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Reply #549 posted 05/28/17 3:43pm

kmama07

LBrent said:



kmama07 said:


LBrent said:



Um...I lived during this time period...and I wasn't a child. I remember it as a barely 20 year old (1981).



So, those of you focussed on the exact time period that P & V were together...in your eyes, you think that without this relationship and the subsequent drama and iconcic 1983 Rolling Stone cover, P's career wouldn't have ended up being...stratospheric..in the way that it did?



M'kay... confused eek





An aside: (So silly). The RS cover always bugged me...not the fact they were on the cover, but the angle with which Vanitys head is resting on P's shoulder. It looks like her head is growing out of his neck. I still have this magazine. Unfortunately years ago it was in a box that was almost destroyed by flood in the basement. I cleaned it up the best I could. It's all warped and kinda moldy but I kept it anyway.


What always bugged me is when they'd flip the negative and P's beuty mark would end up on the wrong side and you'd know it was him, but he didn't look quite right with the mark on the wrong side.



confused sad


Haha! They did that with Madonna, too
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Reply #550 posted 05/28/17 4:21pm

PennyPurple

avatar

From WIKI

.

The Beautiful Ones" is the third track on Prince and The Revolution's soundtrack album Purple Rain. It was one of three songs produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince. The others were "When Doves Cry" and "Darling Nikki". The song was recorded at Sunset Sound in Los Angeles by Peggy Mac and David Leonard in early September 1983.

"The Beautiful Ones" is a haunting musical tale of emotional longing and unrequited love. Starting out as a slow falsetto ballad, with Prince's piano and organ-sounding synthesizers providing a lush backdrop, it gradually builds in volume and intensity, and by the end of the song, Prince is screaming out "Do you want him, or do you want me? 'Cause I want you." The song comes to a quiet close, with Prince's keyboards and drum solo serving as the closing instrumentation.

The song replaced "Electric Intercourse" on the Purple Rain album.[1] It was originally written for Susannah Melvoin (Revolution band member Wendy's twin sister) to woo her away from her then-boyfriend.[2]

In the film, Prince sings the song directly from the stage to Apollonia, who is sitting with his rival Morris Day. The song is a direct and urgent appeal to Apollonia to choose Prince as her lover—and it is a direct challenge to Day. Ultimately, as the song ends and Prince lies, apparently spent, on the floor of the stage, Apollonia leaves in tears. (Later, she surprises him when he is unlocking his bike to leave.)

The version on the Purple Rain album is slightly cut; a longer version of the song exists.

.

  1. Jump up ^ "Everybody Want What They Don't Got", Uptown #44 (September 8, 2000). Accessed December 22, 2008.
  2. Jump up ^ Nilsen, Per. Dance Music Sex Romance: Prince: The First Decade (SAF Publishing Ltd., 1999). ISBN 978-0-946719-64-8
  3. Jump up ^ Spin Staff. "Get Your FREE Copy of SP...Tribute!," Spin website (June 12, 200).

[Edited 5/28/17 16:26pm]

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Reply #551 posted 05/28/17 4:28pm

purplegirl00

Vashtix said:

luvgirl said:

PennyPurple said: lol Geeze Louise... I don't have the time right now.. Don't even get me started on who inspired The Beautiful Ones or if Vanity was fired or quit. I'm backing away slowly... razz

Please come back.

I wish Alex Hahn would address why he let that remain in the book as fact. Prince totally dissed that prior to his transition.

Why would Susannah move to Minneapolis knowing Prince had women. The harem was maintained it was the way Prince lived.

They look like babies in that pic - so fresh faced and beautiful

[Edited 5/28/17 15:19pm]

Please do come back. I'm just now jumping in.

The inspiration for TBOs was cleared up by Prince twice- once in the Ebony magazine article (Dec. 2015) and then again at the Piano and Mic Melbourne concert, the tribute to Vanity/Denise Matthews upon her passing (Feb. 2016). I would like to know as well why Mr. Hahn kept the story from Susan Rogers claiming Susannah Melvoin as the inspiration when Prince himself corrected the record before his death?

The pic up above, is my favorite of Prince and Vanity. Based on Prince's hairstyle, I too have concluded that this pic was taken was prior to 1982. I lean more that they met in 1980 based on articles and interviews Denise gave as well as her obiturary which also uses the 1980 date as the time of their meeting.

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Reply #552 posted 05/28/17 4:28pm

Vashtix

PennyPurple said:

From WIKI

.

The Beautiful Ones" is the third track on Prince and The Revolution's soundtrack album Purple Rain. It was one of three songs produced, arranged, composed, and performed by Prince. The others were "When Doves Cry" and "Darling Nikki". The song was recorded at Sunset Sound in Los Angeles by Peggy Mac and David Leonard in early September 1983.

"The Beautiful Ones" is a haunting musical tale of emotional longing and unrequited love. Starting out as a slow falsetto ballad, with Prince's piano and organ-sounding synthesizers providing a lush backdrop, it gradually builds in volume and intensity, and by the end of the song, Prince is screaming out "Do you want him, or do you want me? 'Cause I want you." The song comes to a quiet close, with Prince's keyboards and drum solo serving as the closing instrumentation.

The song replaced "Electric Intercourse" on the Purple Rain album.[1] It was originally written for Susannah Melvoin (Revolution band member Wendy's twin sister) to woo her away from her then-boyfriend.[2]

In the film, Prince sings the song directly from the stage to Apollonia, who is sitting with his rival Morris Day. The song is a direct and urgent appeal to Apollonia to choose Prince as her lover—and it is a direct challenge to Day. Ultimately, as the song ends and Prince lies, apparently spent, on the floor of the stage, Apollonia leaves in tears. (Later, she surprises him when he is unlocking his bike to leave.)

The version on the Purple Rain album is slightly cut; a longer version of the song exists.

.

  1. Jump up ^ "Everybody Want What They Don't Got", Uptown #44 (September 8, 2000). Accessed December 22, 2008.
  2. Jump up ^ Nilsen, Per. Dance Music Sex Romance: Prince: The First Decade (SAF Publishing Ltd., 1999). ISBN 978-0-946719-64-8
  3. Jump up ^ Spin Staff. "Get Your FREE Copy of SP...Tribute!," Spin website (June 12, 200).

[Edited 5/28/17 16:26pm]

However, Prince said 2 seperate times the song was about Vanity, he knows way more than Wiki ever will about his songs.

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Reply #553 posted 05/28/17 4:33pm

PennyPurple

avatar

http://www.rollingstone.c...r-20160422

The song selected for the movie's cathartic high point doesn't seem coincidental. Purple Rain had plenty of indelible hits — "When Doves Cry," "Let's Go Crazy," "Purple Rain," "I Would Die 4 U" — but it was "The Beautiful Ones," which was never a single, that the album's engineer Susan Rogers believed was closest to Prince's heart. "That song meant a lot to him," she told Rolling Stone in 1989. "It was written for Susannah Melvoin [Prince's onetime girlfriend]. A lot of songs were written about her, but that was the first one."

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Reply #554 posted 05/28/17 4:34pm

Vashtix

purplegirl00 said:

Vashtix said:

Please come back.

I wish Alex Hahn would address why he let that remain in the book as fact. Prince totally dissed that prior to his transition.

Why would Susannah move to Minneapolis knowing Prince had women. The harem was maintained it was the way Prince lived.

They look like babies in that pic - so fresh faced and beautiful

[Edited 5/28/17 15:19pm]

Please do come back. I'm just now jumping in.

The inspiration for TBOs was cleared up by Prince twice- once in the Ebony magazine article (Dec. 2015) and then again at the Piano and Mic Melbourne concert, the tribute to Vanity/Denise Matthews upon her passing (Feb. 2016). I would like to know as well why Mr. Hahn kept the story from Susan Rogers claiming Susannah Melvoin as the inspiration when Prince himself corrected the record before his death?

The pic up above, is my favorite of Prince and Vanity. Based on Prince's hairstyle, I too have concluded that this pic was taken was prior to 1982. I lean more that they met in 1980 based on articles and interviews Denise gave as well as her obiturary which also uses the 1980 date as the time of their meeting.

This is interesting and maybe Mr. Hahn will visit and explain why he did not remove it because it is clear Wilkepedia took information from his book and people believe it.

I am going to go with Prince - he knows best.

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Reply #555 posted 05/28/17 4:41pm

Vashtix

PennyPurple said:

http://www.rollingstone.c...r-20160422

The song selected for the movie's cathartic high point doesn't seem coincidental. Purple Rain had plenty of indelible hits — "When Doves Cry," "Let's Go Crazy," "Purple Rain," "I Would Die 4 U" — but it was "The Beautiful Ones," which was never a single, that the album's engineer Susan Rogers believed was closest to Prince's heart. "That song meant a lot to him," she told Rolling Stone in 1989. "It was written for Susannah Melvoin [Prince's onetime girlfriend]. A lot of songs were written about her, but that was the first one."

And Susan Rodgers was wrong. She did not know what was going on inside of Prince. However Prince himself corrected that myth.

Susan Rodgers nor the Melvoins was Prince.

Prince explained it logically. People want to think Prince hated Vanity or was ambivalent when she left but they were in an affair. I do not get why is it so hard to accept it was not for Susannah but for

Vanity, yes-Prince wrote that beautiful song for the woman people in this thread are calling a bisexual, whore.

No matter that song was for Vanity. Purple Rain was about the Triple Threat tour bands (Time, Vanity 6, Prince and his band) and his romance w/Vanity.

Songs from that were for the movie not Susannah. I will not argue over Empty Room (Prince is rumored to say that was or her) but TBO or other ones for the movie - it amazes me how people want to discount them for what they were.

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Reply #556 posted 05/28/17 4:42pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Vashtix said:

purplegirl00 said:

Please do come back. I'm just now jumping in.

The inspiration for TBOs was cleared up by Prince twice- once in the Ebony magazine article (Dec. 2015) and then again at the Piano and Mic Melbourne concert, the tribute to Vanity/Denise Matthews upon her passing (Feb. 2016). I would like to know as well why Mr. Hahn kept the story from Susan Rogers claiming Susannah Melvoin as the inspiration when Prince himself corrected the record before his death?

The pic up above, is my favorite of Prince and Vanity. Based on Prince's hairstyle, I too have concluded that this pic was taken was prior to 1982. I lean more that they met in 1980 based on articles and interviews Denise gave as well as her obiturary which also uses the 1980 date as the time of their meeting.

This is interesting and maybe Mr. Hahn will visit and explain why he did not remove it because it is clear Wilkepedia took information from his book and people believe it.

I am going to go with Prince - he knows best.

The Rolling Stone article is saying that Susan Rodgers said it's about Susannah.

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Reply #557 posted 05/28/17 4:48pm

PennyPurple

avatar

Vashtix said:

PennyPurple said:

http://www.rollingstone.c...r-20160422

The song selected for the movie's cathartic high point doesn't seem coincidental. Purple Rain had plenty of indelible hits — "When Doves Cry," "Let's Go Crazy," "Purple Rain," "I Would Die 4 U" — but it was "The Beautiful Ones," which was never a single, that the album's engineer Susan Rogers believed was closest to Prince's heart. "That song meant a lot to him," she told Rolling Stone in 1989. "It was written for Susannah Melvoin [Prince's onetime girlfriend]. A lot of songs were written about her, but that was the first one."

And Susan Rodgers was wrong. She did not know what was going on inside of Prince. However Prince himself corrected that myth.

Susan Rodgers nor the Melvoins was Prince.

Prince explained it logically. People want to think Prince hated Vanity or was ambivalent when she left but they were in an affair. I do not get why is it so hard to accept it was not for Susannah but for

Vanity, yes-Prince wrote that beautiful song for the woman people in this thread are calling a bisexual, whore.

No matter that song was for Vanity. Purple Rain was about the Triple Threat tour bands (Time, Vanity 6, Prince and his band) and his romance w/Vanity.

Songs from that were for the movie not Susannah. I will not argue over Empty Room (Prince is rumored to say that was or her) but TBO or other ones for the movie - it amazes me how people want to discount them for what they were.

Chill. Nobody in this thread is calling her a bisexual whore. I didn't write the book, I'm just trying to discuss it.

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Reply #558 posted 05/28/17 5:05pm

purplegirl00

Vashtix said:

purplegirl00 said:

Please do come back. I'm just now jumping in.

The inspiration for TBOs was cleared up by Prince twice- once in the Ebony magazine article (Dec. 2015) and then again at the Piano and Mic Melbourne concert, the tribute to Vanity/Denise Matthews upon her passing (Feb. 2016). I would like to know as well why Mr. Hahn kept the story from Susan Rogers claiming Susannah Melvoin as the inspiration when Prince himself corrected the record before his death?

The pic up above, is my favorite of Prince and Vanity. Based on Prince's hairstyle, I too have concluded that this pic was taken was prior to 1982. I lean more that they met in 1980 based on articles and interviews Denise gave as well as her obiturary which also uses the 1980 date as the time of their meeting.

This is interesting and maybe Mr. Hahn will visit and explain why he did not remove it because it is clear Wilkepedia took information from his book and people believe it.

I am going to go with Prince - he knows best.

This is where I stand too. Wiki is not always right on their information or doesn't always update it. I've read more than one article on where a star laughs at the information put out by wiki and how wrong it can be at times. It's not a reliable source. Plus, if Prince said himself who and what inspired the song, then that's what I will go with.

I realize that the Dec. 2015 Ebony article had been yanked/ deleted at Prince's request, but there are several threads in this forum where the full article is available through having been copied and pasted.

At the Melbourne tribute, Prince changed the lyrics at the end of The Beautiful Ones, from "on my knees" to "Denise, Denise, Denise". Though the concerts are not legally available and I listened via bootleg copy, I believe there was at least one article that described Prince having done this. There is not lack of information. It's out there and with good research, one can find it.

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Reply #559 posted 05/28/17 5:09pm

Vashtix

PennyPurple said:

Vashtix said:

And Susan Rodgers was wrong. She did not know what was going on inside of Prince. However Prince himself corrected that myth.

Susan Rodgers nor the Melvoins was Prince.

Prince explained it logically. People want to think Prince hated Vanity or was ambivalent when she left but they were in an affair. I do not get why is it so hard to accept it was not for Susannah but for

Vanity, yes-Prince wrote that beautiful song for the woman people in this thread are calling a bisexual, whore.

No matter that song was for Vanity. Purple Rain was about the Triple Threat tour bands (Time, Vanity 6, Prince and his band) and his romance w/Vanity.

Songs from that were for the movie not Susannah. I will not argue over Empty Room (Prince is rumored to say that was or her) but TBO or other ones for the movie - it amazes me how people want to discount them for what they were.

Chill. Nobody in this thread is calling her a bisexual whore. I didn't write the book, I'm just trying to discuss it.

I was just pointing out that maybe it is hard to grasp that such a beautiful song could be inspired/written for someone many seem to deem undeserving for whatever reason. She does not fit the mold of what people would want for Prince.

People forget Vanity was just doing what Prince was doing.

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Reply #560 posted 05/28/17 6:56pm

LBrent

luvgirl said:

Sorry for revisiting a past chapter if it's not allowed. I wanted to participate more in this thread but was extremely busy this weekend. I hope it's okay. One last thing about those dates and then I'll move on. Sorry LBrent, lol As per OFFS observation in a post to me, the photo below is from the early Controversy period. Prince's hair is still shorter like the 1981 Prince. By 1982 his hair was much longer and looking like the 1999 Prince, so it seems again that she met him before 1982. Another clue, tracking for The Walk took place January 14, 1982. AMA didn't take place until January 25th 1982, so if these dates are correct they hadn't even met yet. image_zpsxhjnetmu.jpegAnother Another discrepancy is with Dez's comment, implying that Vanity showed up on the bus days after meeting Prince at the AMA. Vanity has referenced many times in articles, interviews, and her own book that Prince at one time or another was pursuing her to move to Minneapolis. She has mentioned that Prince told her "If you love me, you'll move to Minneapolis with me, and let me make you a star. "They had to at one time or another, had a long distance relationship where Prince was pursuing her, and she didn't seem to be falling for his line to make her a star right away. Remember that she wrote that he even blocked her from a concert because they were arguing about her moving to Minneapolis. Also, In her book she implies that they were together, broke up, and got back together again at some point before even moving there.. She said "I had met no man like him, unsolved though he was and oh so romantically intelligent. I fell in love with this young genius, and to the best of my understanding, he fell in love with me. I held onto my reckless roller coaster of a ride until I was dizzy and out of breath, and then I bought another ticket to ride. "Nevertheless I packed my bags and headed for Minneapolis, skidding rubber tracks behind me." This would explain how she just seemed to appear in 1982 and people were Grasping for straws about how and when they met. Saying things like, "the story goes" lol. [Edited 5/28/17 16:10pm]

.

Ok, y'all don't know me from an open can of paint so if ya don't believe me I don't blame you, but...

.

I was born July 1961 and got married May 1981, just before I turned 20, and moved to Dallas after my honeymoon so I did NOT see P's Dirty Mind concert in Dallas.

.

I thought back to when I first remembered hearing about P & V being a couple and 1983 sounds way too late. I would've been 22 and I know for a fact what was going on in my life at that age and specifically, where I was living when I went to P's concerts in Dallas throughout the 80s.

.

My husband's birthday is Dec 17th and for his birthday, we saw Controversy Dec 19, 1981. This was the only P concert I saw at that venue, Dallas Convention Center.

.

The rest of the P concerts we saw in Dallas during the 80s were at Reunion Arena, specifically on 2 seperate New Year's Eves, including one where P ended the show and the balloons dropped before midnight and the audience was pissed and on the ride home the car radio said he had ended then "cuz he planned on f*@king at midnight". lol I was both drunk and high and can't tell you which NYE that was, but we went 2 years in a row.

.

Anyway, I don't remember seeing Vanity6 perform until the Dallas New Year's Eve show of the 1999 tour Dec 31st, 1982 and they did something with Morris and The Time. But this was the 2nd time I had seen The Time perform at a P concert.

.

Hopefully those dates will help with the timeline y'all are tryna recreate.

smile

[Edited 5/28/17 20:21pm]

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Reply #561 posted 05/28/17 7:17pm

LBrent

purplegirl00 said:

Vashtix said:

Please come back.

I wish Alex Hahn would address why he let that remain in the book as fact. Prince totally dissed that prior to his transition.

Why would Susannah move to Minneapolis knowing Prince had women. The harem was maintained it was the way Prince lived.

They look like babies in that pic - so fresh faced and beautiful

[Edited 5/28/17 15:19pm]

Please do come back. I'm just now jumping in.

The inspiration for TBOs was cleared up by Prince twice- once in the Ebony magazine article (Dec. 2015) and then again at the Piano and Mic Melbourne concert, the tribute to Vanity/Denise Matthews upon her passing (Feb. 2016). I would like to know as well why Mr. Hahn kept the story from Susan Rogers claiming Susannah Melvoin as the inspiration when Prince himself corrected the record before his death?

The pic up above, is my favorite of Prince and Vanity. Based on Prince's hairstyle, I too have concluded that this pic was taken was prior to 1982. I lean more that they met in 1980 based on articles and interviews Denise gave as well as her obiturary which also uses the 1980 date as the time of their meeting.

Because Susannah was Susan's personal choice for P?

.

Look, I can only speak to my fan memory and personal feelings...TBO is one of my favourite songs from this period and I thought it was undisputed common fan knowledge that it was written about V.

.

As a fan, I had heard that W had a twin sister, but it wasn't until Parade that I paid any attention to S...In fact, weren't they over by then? I've always thought of S as a blip on the radar and never given er much thought.

.

Truly, the purple gals were so many and in constant rotation that it's hard to keep up.

.

Also, someone mentioned SheilaE...she said she met P in 1978 backstage at one of her father's concerts and that's where the now infamous "me and my bassist "were just fighting about which one of us would be the first to be your husband" conversation happened. She's like 6 months older than P and she said she was 19 then.

.

So how is V going to Minnesota "and then here comes SheilaE"? sheilaE was already purple when V got her purple card.

confused

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Reply #562 posted 05/28/17 7:30pm

luvgirl

One of the simplest way to refute the claim that Prince fired Vanity due to her sleeping With Albert Magnol is what Jill Jones has said about the matter. Mind you, the author has used Jill Jones as a reference in his book. He took her word as truth on a number of things. Her interview is a clickable source in the index. Yet, Jill Jones comments about the reason Vanity left has been neglected. You know, the comment where she said she knew Vanity was going to leave Prince because Berry Gordy actually told her so!! And she actually warned Prince about it!!! And Berry Gordy actually called Prince to speak to him about it!!! Though she didn't know if he took the call... And lo and behold, Vanity left, and took up with none other than Berry Gordy and did a tremendous movie called The Last Dragon that Berry Gordy produced! Nothing more for me to say there...

In regards to The Beautiful Ones.. (sigh..)

Of course articles and wiki are saying that The Beautiful Ones was about SUsannah Melvoin. Susan Rogers said so, and those articles and books are going by what she has said in the past. This very book is going by what she said... That my friend is the very reason why Prince went AWOL in the December 2015 Ebony Atticle, in which he deferred to Vanity's departure as a composite for the lyrics in TBO. And in the process called out Susan Rogers, and threw out words like, psychoanalyzing, and referenced speculation as a way she would go about distributing songs. Prince mentioned two lyrics and explained who and what inspired them. He said, "If you look at it its very obvious" Do you want him or do you want me, that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris Day would be sitting with Apollonia, and there’d be this back and forth."

And then he said the second lyrics was written due to Vanity's departure, “And also, "The beautiful ones you always seem to lose,” Vanity had just quit the movie", He mentions her name straight out. You can't get anymore real than that. It all makes sense too, because Vanity had really just left him in August and he recorded the song in September. What a coincidence. .. Not only did he illustrate that the song was about her then, but would again do so at his tribute to her, when he intoned - before singing the song, "She Knows about this one." Indicating that The Beautiful Ones was one particular song that she knew she had inspired. Ending the song whispering her name. "Denise, Denise." Even if people want to think that he was lying at the time of the article (I've heard that one before) this was a completely different situation. Vanity had just passed on. If the song wasn't about her, he didn't need to suggest that it was. That would have been distasteful for him to lie and dishonor her onstage eulogy with an erroneous innuendo...


I was optimistic about this book in the beginning when I saw this comment...

"Matthews erotic energy still loomed over the film. Prince’s pained screams during “The Beautiful Ones” could not have been stimulated by the blank slate that was Kotero- Matthews was a much more likely catalyst for one of the most powerful displays of emotion in his career."

I want to think that perhaps the authors wanted to acknowledge that the song was about Vanity, but remembered that it was said in the original Possessed that The Beautiful Ones was about SM, so maybe it was hard for them to revise it. At the very least though, they should have mentioned what Prince said in the article and at his tribute to Vanity. I don't want to beat up on the authors too much, but the beautiful and enlightening tribute where Prince announced to the world that him and Vanity used to love each other deeply, wasn't even mentioned, only that he threw her in the pool...
[Edited 5/28/17 21:02pm]
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Reply #563 posted 05/28/17 7:57pm

AnnaStesia10

avatar

☝️
Hear u and agree with u!
"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #564 posted 05/28/17 8:00pm

luvgirl

LBrent said:



luvgirl said:


Sorry for revisiting a past chapter if it's not allowed. I wanted to participate more in this thread but was extremely busy this weekend. I hope it's okay. One last thing about those dates and then I'll move on. Sorry LBrent, lol As per OFFS observation in a post to me, the photo below is from the early Controversy period. Prince's hair is still shorter like the 1981 Prince. By 1982 his hair was much longer and looking like the 1999 Prince, so it seems again that she met him before 1982. Another clue, tracking for The Walk took place January 14, 1982. AMA didn't take place until January 25th 1982, so if these dates are correct they hadn't even met yet. photo image_zpsxhjnetmu.jpegAnother Another discrepancy is with Dez's comment, implying that Vanity showed up on the bus days after meeting Prince at the AMA. Vanity has referenced many times in articles, interviews, and her own book that Prince at one time or another was pursuing her to move to Minneapolis. She has mentioned that Prince told her "If you love me, you'll move to Minneapolis with me, and let me make you a star. "They had to at one time or another, had a long distance relationship where Prince was pursuing her, and she didn't seem to be falling for his line to make her a star right away. Remember that she wrote that he even blocked her from a concert because they were arguing about her moving to Minneapolis. Also, In her book she implies that they were together, broke up, and got back together again at some point before even moving there.. She said "I had met no man like him, unsolved though he was and oh so romantically intelligent. I fell in love with this young genius, and to the best of my understanding, he fell in love with me. I held onto my reckless roller coaster of a ride until I was dizzy and out of breath, and then I bought another ticket to ride. "Nevertheless I packed my bags and headed for Minneapolis, skidding rubber tracks behind me." This would explain how she just seemed to appear in 1982 and people were Grasping for straws about how and when they met. Saying things like, "the story goes" lol. [Edited 5/28/17 16:10pm]


.


Ok, y'all don't know me from an open can of paint so if ya don't believe me I don't blame you, but...


.


I was born July 1961 and got married May 1981, just before I turned 20, and moved to Dall after my honeymoon so I did NOT see P's Dirty Mind concert in Dallas.


.


I thought back to when I first remembered hearing about P & V being a couple and 1983 sounds way too late. I would've been 22 and I know for a fact what was going on in my life at that age and specifically, where I was living when I went to P's concerts in Dallas throughout the 80s.


.


My husband's birthday is Dec 17th and for his birthday, we saw Controversy Dec 19, 1981. This was the only P concert I saw at that venue, Dallas Convention Center.


.


The rest of the P concerts we saw in Dallas during the 80s were at Reunion Arena, specifically on 2 seperate New Year's Eves, including one where P ended the show and the balloons dropped before midnight and the audience was pissed and on the ride home the car radio said he had ended then "cuz he planned on f*@king at midnight". lol I was both drunk and high and can't tell you which NYE that was, but we went 2 years in a row.


.


Anyway, I don't remember seeing Vanity6 perform until the Dallas New Year's Eve show of the 1999 tour Dec 31st, 1982 and they did something with Morris and The Time. But this was the 2nd time I had seen The Time perform at a P concert.


.


Hopefully those dates will help with the timeline y'all are tryna recreate.



smile



Wow, lucky duck.. I wasn't allowed to go two steps out the door before my mother told me I better not let the spit dry line. Lol.
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Reply #565 posted 05/28/17 8:22pm

Vashtix

LBrent said:

purplegirl00 said:

Please do come back. I'm just now jumping in.

The inspiration for TBOs was cleared up by Prince twice- once in the Ebony magazine article (Dec. 2015) and then again at the Piano and Mic Melbourne concert, the tribute to Vanity/Denise Matthews upon her passing (Feb. 2016). I would like to know as well why Mr. Hahn kept the story from Susan Rogers claiming Susannah Melvoin as the inspiration when Prince himself corrected the record before his death?

The pic up above, is my favorite of Prince and Vanity. Based on Prince's hairstyle, I too have concluded that this pic was taken was prior to 1982. I lean more that they met in 1980 based on articles and interviews Denise gave as well as her obiturary which also uses the 1980 date as the time of their meeting.

Because Susannah was Susan's personal choice for P?

.

Look, I can only speak to my fan memory and personal feelings...TBO is one of my favourite songs from this period and I thought it was undisputed common fan knowledge that it was written about V.

.

As a fan, I had heard that W had a twin sister, but it wasn't until Parade that I paid any attention to S...In fact, weren't they over by then? I've always thought of S as a blip on the radar and never given er much thought.

.

Truly, the purple gals were so many and in constant rotation that it's hard to keep up.

.

Also, someone mentioned SheilaE...she said she met P in 1978 backstage at one of her father's concerts and that's where the now infamous "me and my bassist "were just fighting about which one of us would be the first to be your husband" conversation happened. She's like 6 months older than P and she said she was 19 then.

.

So how is V going to Minnesota "and then here comes SheilaE"? sheilaE was already purple when V got her purple card.

confused

I never thought of that- Sheila was around for a long time.

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Reply #566 posted 05/28/17 8:36pm

purplegirl00

LBrent said:

luvgirl said:

Sorry for revisiting a past chapter if it's not allowed. I wanted to participate more in this thread but was extremely busy this weekend. I hope it's okay. One last thing about those dates and then I'll move on. Sorry LBrent, lol As per OFFS observation in a post to me, the photo below is from the early Controversy period. Prince's hair is still shorter like the 1981 Prince. By 1982 his hair was much longer and looking like the 1999 Prince, so it seems again that she met him before 1982. Another clue, tracking for The Walk took place January 14, 1982. AMA didn't take place until January 25th 1982, so if these dates are correct they hadn't even met yet. image_zpsxhjnetmu.jpegAnother Another discrepancy is with Dez's comment, implying that Vanity showed up on the bus days after meeting Prince at the AMA. Vanity has referenced many times in articles, interviews, and her own book that Prince at one time or another was pursuing her to move to Minneapolis. She has mentioned that Prince told her "If you love me, you'll move to Minneapolis with me, and let me make you a star. "They had to at one time or another, had a long distance relationship where Prince was pursuing her, and she didn't seem to be falling for his line to make her a star right away. Remember that she wrote that he even blocked her from a concert because they were arguing about her moving to Minneapolis. Also, In her book she implies that they were together, broke up, and got back together again at some point before even moving there.. She said "I had met no man like him, unsolved though he was and oh so romantically intelligent. I fell in love with this young genius, and to the best of my understanding, he fell in love with me. I held onto my reckless roller coaster of a ride until I was dizzy and out of breath, and then I bought another ticket to ride. "Nevertheless I packed my bags and headed for Minneapolis, skidding rubber tracks behind me." This would explain how she just seemed to appear in 1982 and people were Grasping for straws about how and when they met. Saying things like, "the story goes" lol. [Edited 5/28/17 16:10pm]

.

Ok, y'all don't know me from an open can of paint so if ya don't believe me I don't blame you, but...

.

I was born July 1961 and got married May 1981, just before I turned 20, and moved to Dallas after my honeymoon so I did NOT see P's Dirty Mind concert in Dallas.

.

I thought back to when I first remembered hearing about P & V being a couple and 1983 sounds way too late. I would've been 22 and I know for a fact what was going on in my life at that age and specifically, where I was living when I went to P's concerts in Dallas throughout the 80s.

.

My husband's birthday is Dec 17th and for his birthday, we saw Controversy Dec 19, 1981. This was the only P concert I saw at that venue, Dallas Convention Center.

.

The rest of the P concerts we saw in Dallas during the 80s were at Reunion Arena, specifically on 2 seperate New Year's Eves, including one where P ended the show and the balloons dropped before midnight and the audience was pissed and on the ride home the car radio said he had ended then "cuz he planned on f*@king at midnight". lol I was both drunk and high and can't tell you which NYE that was, but we went 2 years in a row.

.

Anyway, I don't remember seeing Vanity6 perform until the Dallas New Year's Eve show of the 1999 tour Dec 31st, 1982 and they did something with Morris and The Time. But this was the 2nd time I had seen The Time perform at a P concert.

.

Hopefully those dates will help with the timeline y'all are tryna recreate.

smile

[Edited 5/28/17 20:21pm]

Sounds just like Prince. Who needs to ring in the New Year with just a kiss? lol falloff falloff

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Reply #567 posted 05/28/17 8:47pm

Vashtix

purplegirl00 said:

LBrent said:

.

Ok, y'all don't know me from an open can of paint so if ya don't believe me I don't blame you, but...

.

I was born July 1961 and got married May 1981, just before I turned 20, and moved to Dallas after my honeymoon so I did NOT see P's Dirty Mind concert in Dallas.

.

I thought back to when I first remembered hearing about P & V being a couple and 1983 sounds way too late. I would've been 22 and I know for a fact what was going on in my life at that age and specifically, where I was living when I went to P's concerts in Dallas throughout the 80s.

.

My husband's birthday is Dec 17th and for his birthday, we saw Controversy Dec 19, 1981. This was the only P concert I saw at that venue, Dallas Convention Center.

.

The rest of the P concerts we saw in Dallas during the 80s were at Reunion Arena, specifically on 2 seperate New Year's Eves, including one where P ended the show and the balloons dropped before midnight and the audience was pissed and on the ride home the car radio said he had ended then "cuz he planned on f*@king at midnight". lol I was both drunk and high and can't tell you which NYE that was, but we went 2 years in a row.

.

Anyway, I don't remember seeing Vanity6 perform until the Dallas New Year's Eve show of the 1999 tour Dec 31st, 1982 and they did something with Morris and The Time. But this was the 2nd time I had seen The Time perform at a P concert.

.

Hopefully those dates will help with the timeline y'all are tryna recreate.

smile

[Edited 5/28/17 20:21pm]

Sounds just like Prince. Who needs to ring in the New Year with just a kiss? lol falloff falloff

lol cool

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Reply #568 posted 05/28/17 8:55pm

luvgirl

Vashtix said:



purplegirl00 said:




LBrent said:




.


Ok, y'all don't know me from an open can of paint so if ya don't believe me I don't blame you, but...


.


I was born July 1961 and got married May 1981, just before I turned 20, and moved to Dallas after my honeymoon so I did NOT see P's Dirty Mind concert in Dallas.


.


I thought back to when I first remembered hearing about P & V being a couple and 1983 sounds way too late. I would've been 22 and I know for a fact what was going on in my life at that age and specifically, where I was living when I went to P's concerts in Dallas throughout the 80s.


.


My husband's birthday is Dec 17th and for his birthday, we saw Controversy Dec 19, 1981. This was the only P concert I saw at that venue, Dallas Convention Center.


.


The rest of the P concerts we saw in Dallas during the 80s were at Reunion Arena, specifically on 2 seperate New Year's Eves, including one where P ended the show and the balloons dropped before midnight and the audience was pissed and on the ride home the car radio said he had ended then "cuz he planned on f*@king at midnight". lol I was both drunk and high and can't tell you which NYE that was, but we went 2 years in a row.


.


Anyway, I don't remember seeing Vanity6 perform until the Dallas New Year's Eve show of the 1999 tour Dec 31st, 1982 and they did something with Morris and The Time. But this was the 2nd time I had seen The Time perform at a P concert.


.


Hopefully those dates will help with the timeline y'all are tryna recreate.



smile


[Edited 5/28/17 20:21pm]




Sounds just like Prince. Who needs to ring in the New Year with just a kiss? lol falloff falloff



lol cool



falloff I wonder who got to ring in the New Year with Prince?? eek
[Edited 5/28/17 20:55pm]
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Reply #569 posted 05/28/17 9:01pm

LBrent

Ok, now here's something else to think about...

.

Jill's mother was Teena Marie's manager when Jill was 18 and accompanied her on the Dirty Mind tour where Teena Marie opened for Rick. The tours were parallel in the timeline in 1980 so has Jill ever mentined V from that early, either as being around Rick or being around P during that time period?

.

Jill would've been 18 years old.

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