...if he had survived his addiction. Rehab can be an eye opener, it forces people to face their vulnerabilities (physical and emotional). It forces a person to ask for help. Something Prince never attempted to do in the past. It is a come to Jesus moment if it works. Prince already had the Jesus in his life. But, he had one recent opiod overdose that was shrouded in secrecy while he went through withdrawal without a qualified or truely caring sponsor to help him through. Maybe, had he survived that night, he would have had the self-realization. It would have burst the purple bubble a bit (maybe for the better.) His real 'family' would have been realized. The people who really cared would have continued to care. The phonies might have fallen to the waist side.

the saddest tragedy of his death is that he was never given the second chance most 'addicts' get.

[Edited 4/23/17 15:39pm]

purplerabbithole said:

...if he had survived his addiction. Rehab can be an eye opener, it forces people to face their vulnerabilities (physical and emotional).

[Edited 4/23/17 15:39pm]

This whole topic is kind of morbid (cant we let him r.i.p. without shitting on his psych?). You don't think with what he went through in his early youth that he didn't already face some vulnerabilities, physical and emotional.

Some of yall expected/wanted him to draw blood for you.

I am not saying he never faced himself. I am saying he may not have done it enough. I was not saying what I said from a place of judgment. What I am saying is that we all need help sometimes. Prince's isolation and absolute self-reliance had a sad element to it. Its tragic. And I feel for him.

You are missing my point. He was already drawing blood for us for his music. We didn't need to have him write a memoir or expose his every torment. But he needed to tell someone who wouldn't judge or expose it to everyone else. What he seemed to need was someone else to draw blood for him, to be there for him not as an employee with something to gain but as a pure friend. To completely face one's vulnerabilities is to really see the full extent to which your self reliance is holding you back, isolating you, not allowing you to feel comfortable with being vulnerable around others.

rdhull said:

purplerabbithole said:

...if he had survived his addiction. Rehab can be an eye opener, it forces people to face their vulnerabilities (physical and emotional).

[Edited 4/23/17 15:39pm]

This whole topic is kind of morbid (cant we let him r.i.p. without shitting on his psych?). You don't think with what he went through in his early youth that he didn't already face some vulnerabilities, physical and emotional.

Some of yall expected/wanted him to draw blood for you.

[Edited 4/23/17 16:59pm]

[Edited 4/23/17 17:03pm]

You said he never asked for help. Just how do you know that? Not that the asking had to do with his recent drug issues. And even with that, it's obvious that he did seek help, maybe too late. He asked for his parents help and love in his youth as he has revealed in interviews in the 80's. Stop demonizing the dude (and thats what youre doing, not so subtly, just coveing it in purple candy coating).

purplerabbithole said:

I am not saying he never faced himself. I am saying he may not have done it enough. I was not saying what I said from a place of judgment. What I am saying is that we all need help sometimes. Prince's isolation and absolute self-reliance had a sad element to it. Its tragic. And I feel for him.

You are missing my point. He was already drawing blood for us for his music. We didn't need to have him write a memoir or expose his every torment. But he needed to tell someone who wouldn't judge or expose it to everyone else. What he seemed to need was someone else to draw blood for him, to be there for him not as an employee with something to gain but as a pure friend. To completely face one's vulnerabilities is to really see the full extent to which your self reliance is holding you back, isolating you, not allowing you to feel comfortable with being vulnerable around others.

rdhull said:

This whole topic is kind of morbid (cant we let him r.i.p. without shitting on his psych?). You don't think with what he went through in his early youth that he didn't already face some vulnerabilities, physical and emotional.

Some of yall expected/wanted him to draw blood for you.

[Edited 4/23/17 16:59pm]

[Edited 4/23/17 17:03pm]

I AM NOT DEMONIZING HIM and I resent that you said that. Every single person who has ever talked about PRicne has talked about his self-reliance, his mystery etc. Finding tragedy in Prince's life is not demonizing him... We all have our hang-ups or issues. Also, I never said his starting on pain pills had anything to do with emotional issues. I don't know why he took drugs..it may have easily been because of physical pain. He may have had physical pain going way back. I am saying that the way he conducted himself in relation to his addiction (keeping it a secret from loved ones which he seemed to be doing) and the way he seemed to deal with painful things in the past may not have always been healthy due to the isolation and possible delusion he enveloped himself in. Rehab, even if it is just for drugs taken for chronic pain, will force anyone to at least admit they need real help to cope with the physical as well as psychological dependency...why he started the drugs becomes almost irrelevent once a person becomes addicted.

Psycho-analysing Prince...you had better get used to it, because most books and articles will attempt to do that very thing from this point on. He's important, mysterious, and influential. Most public figures are eventually psycho-analyzed.

Do you think pointing out possible weaknesses in a person is the same thing as demonizing? Demons don't have sympathetic vulnerabilities. Its not a sin to have weakness.

And the belief that weakness=sin might be the very reason Prince died alone in an elevator.

rdhull said:

You said he never asked for help. Just how do you know that? Not that the asking had to do with his recent drug issues. And even with that, it's obvious that he did seek help, maybe too late. He asked for his parents help and love in his youth as he has revealed in interviews in the 80's. Stop demonizing the dude (and thats what youre doing, not so subtly, just coveing it in purple candy coating).

purplerabbithole said:

I am not saying he never faced himself. I am saying he may not have done it enough. I was not saying what I said from a place of judgment. What I am saying is that we all need help sometimes. Prince's isolation and absolute self-reliance had a sad element to it. Its tragic. And I feel for him.

You are missing my point. He was already drawing blood for us for his music. We didn't need to have him write a memoir or expose his every torment. But he needed to tell someone who wouldn't judge or expose it to everyone else. What he seemed to need was someone else to draw blood for him, to be there for him not as an employee with something to gain but as a pure friend. To completely face one's vulnerabilities is to really see the full extent to which your self reliance is holding you back, isolating you, not allowing you to feel comfortable with being vulnerable around others.

[Edited 4/23/17 16:59pm]

[Edited 4/23/17 17:03pm]

[Edited 4/23/17 17:24pm]

[Edited 4/23/17 17:26pm]

[Edited 4/23/17 17:54pm]

As bad as the recent docudrama last week

purplerabbithole said:

. Finding tragedy in Prince's life is not demonizing him... h

Plenty of celebrities participate in run of the mill 12 step meetings with frequency everywhere they go and do very well, b/c they're treated the same as any other anonymous attendee, and they need that. Plus those are the folks who can call them out on their b.s. and guide them quite effectively in long term sobriety.

The OP is correct, and anyone with insight to these things knows it.

rdhull said:

You said he never asked for help. Just how do you know that? Not that the asking had to do with his recent drug issues. And even with that, it's obvious that he did seek help, maybe too late. He asked for his parents help and love in his youth as he has revealed in interviews in the 80's. Stop demonizing the dude (and thats what youre doing, not so subtly, just coveing it in purple candy coating).

purplerabbithole said:

I am not saying he never faced himself. I am saying he may not have done it enough. I was not saying what I said from a place of judgment. What I am saying is that we all need help sometimes. Prince's isolation and absolute self-reliance had a sad element to it. Its tragic. And I feel for him.

You are missing my point. He was already drawing blood for us for his music. We didn't need to have him write a memoir or expose his every torment. But he needed to tell someone who wouldn't judge or expose it to everyone else. What he seemed to need was someone else to draw blood for him, to be there for him not as an employee with something to gain but as a pure friend. To completely face one's vulnerabilities is to really see the full extent to which your self reliance is holding you back, isolating you, not allowing you to feel comfortable with being vulnerable around others.

[Edited 4/23/17 16:59pm]

[Edited 4/23/17 17:03pm]

Everything we know about Prince suggests he was extremely concerned to maintain a posture of strength and self-sufficiency...we have precisely no examples of him possibly asking for help, until, as far as we know, the day before he died, and the one time he asked Mayte to flush his pills and to take over, which lasted precisely one night before he went back to 'everything is okay'...and we have a ton of anecdotal evidence from people around him telling us he was not someone it was easy to comfort or talk to when you could see he was having some problems. After the Moline incident he a) sent his girlfriend away b) organized a party to convince everyone he was fine when he wasn't and c) told all his concerned friends he was fine when he wasn't...that's a pretty clear pattern, and it fits with everything people have said about his way of managing problems over the years. And it's not demonizing him, in any way, to recognize he had some vulnerabilites, and that he dealt with them in certain ways that ultimately might not have been so helpful. People's vulnerabilities do not make demons, but humans, of them...and as remarkable and otherworldly as he was, Prince was human, and he died a very very human death...one which we can either reckon with, or deny.

jayseajay said:

rdhull said:

You said he never asked for help. Just how do you know that? Not that the asking had to do with his recent drug issues. And even with that, it's obvious that he did seek help, maybe too late. He asked for his parents help and love in his youth as he has revealed in interviews in the 80's. Stop demonizing the dude (and thats what youre doing, not so subtly, just coveing it in purple candy coating).

Everything we know about Prince suggests he was extremely concerned to maintain a posture of strength and self-sufficiency...we have precisely no examples of him possibly asking for help, until, as far as we know, the day before he died, and the one time he asked Mayte to flush his pills and to take over, which lasted precisely one night before he went back to 'everything is okay'...and we have a ton of anecdotal evidence from people around him telling us he was not someone it was easy to comfort or talk to when you could see he was having some problems. After the Moline incident he a) sent his girlfriend away b) organized a party to convince everyone he was fine when he wasn't and c) told all his concerned friends he was fine when he wasn't...that's a pretty clear pattern, and it fits with everything people have said about his way of managing problems over the years. And it's not demonizing him, in any way, to recognize he had some vulnerabilites, and that he dealt with them in certain ways that ultimately might not have been so helpful. People's vulnerabilities do not make demons, but humans, of them...and as remarkable and otherworldly as he was, Prince was human, and he died a very very human death...one which we can either reckon with, or deny.

Yeah have to agree 100% here. There is becoming this issue of "not going there and if you do" you are hurting his legacy. Which is total crap, his legacy is solid NOTHING is going to touch that, no book no findings etc...we will always all love and respect him and the talent and the JOY he brought us and still will in other ways now, be it through those who are still here to carry on in some way, or new releases, whatever. The thing many can't face is that he is/was a human being at the end of the day. Problems, struggles, health etc...yes he carried a mystique and persona that kept many things hidden so he alone could deal with them and that was his choosing but at some point in all our lives despite our feeling that we can solve things at some point things are even more than we can handle. NOW we can all speculate what happened and we will all differ on things about the hows and whens and whys but in the end he is still not here, that is the one common thing and answer we have to accept, he was here and now he is not. And all the things that happened in between can NOT be changed, nothing can take away from that legacy, and to be fearful of saying he had a problem or an addiction or a health issue that we did not know and quite frankly was not for us to know, is foolish for us to do now. He was a human being, we need to realize this, all of us.

lastdecember said:

jayseajay said:

Everything we know about Prince suggests he was extremely concerned to maintain a posture of strength and self-sufficiency...we have precisely no examples of him possibly asking for help, until, as far as we know, the day before he died, and the one time he asked Mayte to flush his pills and to take over, which lasted precisely one night before he went back to 'everything is okay'...and we have a ton of anecdotal evidence from people around him telling us he was not someone it was easy to comfort or talk to when you could see he was having some problems. After the Moline incident he a) sent his girlfriend away b) organized a party to convince everyone he was fine when he wasn't and c) told all his concerned friends he was fine when he wasn't...that's a pretty clear pattern, and it fits with everything people have said about his way of managing problems over the years. And it's not demonizing him, in any way, to recognize he had some vulnerabilites, and that he dealt with them in certain ways that ultimately might not have been so helpful. People's vulnerabilities do not make demons, but humans, of them...and as remarkable and otherworldly as he was, Prince was human, and he died a very very human death...one which we can either reckon with, or deny.

Yeah have to agree 100% here. There is becoming this issue of "not going there and if you do" you are hurting his legacy. Which is total crap, his legacy is solid NOTHING is going to touch that, no book no findings etc...we will always all love and respect him and the talent and the JOY he brought us and still will in other ways now, be it through those who are still here to carry on in some way, or new releases, whatever. The thing many can't face is that he is/was a human being at the end of the day. Problems, struggles, health etc...yes he carried a mystique and persona that kept many things hidden so he alone could deal with them and that was his choosing but at some point in all our lives despite our feeling that we can solve things at some point things are even more than we can handle. NOW we can all speculate what happened and we will all differ on things about the hows and whens and whys but in the end he is still not here, that is the one common thing and answer we have to accept, he was here and now he is not. And all the things that happened in between can NOT be changed, nothing can take away from that legacy, and to be fearful of saying he had a problem or an addiction or a health issue that we did not know and quite frankly was not for us to know, is foolish for us to do now. He was a human being, we need to realize this, all of us.

Who thinks he wasnt human. And speculation is whats happening. That is expected and not even an issue. However, some folks are throwing things out there as facts as f they knew him and his inner workings with himself, his relationships, and life. No matter how many "biographies" are written, its daft to do so imho.

rdhull said:

rdhull said:

lastdecember said:

Yeah have to agree 100% here. There is becoming this issue of "not going there and if you do" you are hurting his legacy. Which is total crap, his legacy is solid NOTHING is going to touch that, no book no findings etc...we will always all love and respect him and the talent and the JOY he brought us and still will in other ways now, be it through those who are still here to carry on in some way, or new releases, whatever. The thing many can't face is that he is/was a human being at the end of the day. Problems, struggles, health etc...yes he carried a mystique and persona that kept many things hidden so he alone could deal with them and that was his choosing but at some point in all our lives despite our feeling that we can solve things at some point things are even more than we can handle. NOW we can all speculate what happened and we will all differ on things about the hows and whens and whys but in the end he is still not here, that is the one common thing and answer we have to accept, he was here and now he is not. And all the things that happened in between can NOT be changed, nothing can take away from that legacy, and to be fearful of saying he had a problem or an addiction or a health issue that we did not know and quite frankly was not for us to know, is foolish for us to do now. He was a human being, we need to realize this, all of us.

Who thinks he wasnt human. And speculation is whats happening. That is expected and not even an issue. However, some folks are throwing things out there as facts as f they knew him and his inner workings with himself, his relationships, and life. No matter how many "biographies" are written, its daft to do so imho.

From my obersvations so one is throwing things out as hard fact - everyone seems pretty clear that it's all a guessing game @ this point. Rather people are making informed assumptions as to how professional help may have helped him. They're informed based on things he's said, things he's done and things that people close to him have said. No one will ever know with any certainty, but dammit if it walks like a duck you can't just say oh well it might be a cheetah.

Prince was unique in A LOT of ways, but there are certain things about him that are part of the public record that are pretty consistent with behaviors/attitudes that people with similar life experiences exhibit. Certain tendencies. Certain decisions. His wealth and popularity almost certainly exacerbated certain things and allowed him to get away w/ certain things longer than any of us would have been able to.

rogifan said:

rdhull said:

Who thinks he wasnt human. And speculation is whats happening. That is expected and not even an issue. However, some folks are throwing things out there as facts as f they knew him and his inner workings with himself, his relationships, and life. No matter how many "biographies" are written, its daft to do so imho.

Yes. I wish people could just let him Rest In Peace. Celebrate his life and his amazing career. Stop psychoanalyzing everything.

I mean, now THAT's all well and good, so maybe some suggestions to the forum mods should be made re: the types of discussions allowed moving forward ?

rogifan said:

rdhull said:

Who thinks he wasnt human. And speculation is whats happening. That is expected and not even an issue. However, some folks are throwing things out there as facts as f they knew him and his inner workings with himself, his relationships, and life. No matter how many "biographies" are written, its daft to do so imho.

Yes. I wish people could just let him Rest In Peace. Celebrate his life and his amazing career. Stop psychoanalyzing everything.

We have a lot of doctors here practicing pro bono lol.

rdhull said:

lastdecember said:

Yeah have to agree 100% here. There is becoming this issue of "not going there and if you do" you are hurting his legacy. Which is total crap, his legacy is solid NOTHING is going to touch that, no book no findings etc...we will always all love and respect him and the talent and the JOY he brought us and still will in other ways now, be it through those who are still here to carry on in some way, or new releases, whatever. The thing many can't face is that he is/was a human being at the end of the day. Problems, struggles, health etc...yes he carried a mystique and persona that kept many things hidden so he alone could deal with them and that was his choosing but at some point in all our lives despite our feeling that we can solve things at some point things are even more than we can handle. NOW we can all speculate what happened and we will all differ on things about the hows and whens and whys but in the end he is still not here, that is the one common thing and answer we have to accept, he was here and now he is not. And all the things that happened in between can NOT be changed, nothing can take away from that legacy, and to be fearful of saying he had a problem or an addiction or a health issue that we did not know and quite frankly was not for us to know, is foolish for us to do now. He was a human being, we need to realize this, all of us.

Who thinks he wasnt human. And speculation is whats happening. That is expected and not even an issue. However, some folks are throwing things out there as facts as f they knew him and his inner workings with himself, his relationships, and life. No matter how many "biographies" are written, its daft to do so imho.

There will always be theories because of the fact he died alone, and the enigma he created, that is just fact and that will never be resolved. I feel there are going to be tons more on him and interviews and books and music etc..whether theories or just in tribute fashion. But as I said on other threads when people would get into his surgery (which is still not even fact he had one) or just how certain things got to him or were given to him it is all never going to be proven, which in my opinion was why the body was cremated right away to just take that possibility of someone wanting to further there own theories on what happened. No one will ever know its a reality we all must face, we just will never know.

duhhh.....he already had THAT insight.....it was an accident or murder.