As soon as I heard about this, I knew it would be shut down by P's estate. Only P's estate has the legal rights to Prince's music.

MiceElfAgin said:

I agree but the thrust of the conversation here has been about Ian Boxill earning from this and it therefore being an unofficial release as opposed to a bootleg (not much distinction of course).

I doubt there are many of us on the Org that do not have at least some bootleg tracks. If you sourced them for free and still intend to buy them if they get an official release (which I will) then the argument is that there is less damage to the estate or prince in the past. Buying hem and providing an income to those who infringe copyright is another matter!

Some people will say we should not own bootlegs period! But that doesn't accept the reality of a rabid insatiable fanbase.

jaypotton said:

MiceElfAgin said:

.
Copyright infringement is copyright infringement regardless of taking any money or not.

.

I agree but the thrust of the conversation here has been about Ian Boxill earning from this and it therefore being an unofficial release as opposed to a bootleg (not much distinction of course).

.

"Unofficial as opposed to a bootleg"? Bootlegs ARE unofficial releases, so I don't see your point. Deliverance is a bootleg, regardless of Boxill earning anything or not. There's no difference at all.

MiceElfAgin said:

I think we are agreeing! The distinction is was making is fans getting it for free or paying someone.

You should read the rest of my posts across various threads on this topic as you will see my position on this.

MiceElfAgin said:

jaypotton said:

MiceElfAgin said: I agree but the thrust of the conversation here has been about Ian Boxill earning from this and it therefore being an unofficial release as opposed to a bootleg (not much distinction of course).

.

"Unofficial as opposed to a bootleg"? Bootlegs ARE unofficial releases, so I don't see your point. Deliverance is a bootleg, regardless of Boxill earning anything or not. There's no difference at all.

.
By the way, Boxill has not only released a bootleg, he also has the nerve to claim co-authorship just because he has added some parts to the arrangement – but that is called 'arranging', not 'writing' or 'composing', and by law, arrangers don't get co-writing credits nor royalties (unless someone makes an arrangement for a composition already in the public domain). Arrangers are paid a modest, one-off fee.

Whether he was paid by Prince for his work (which classifies as 'work-for-hire') or not, is a different matter though. But even if he wasn't, as he claims, that gives him no rights whatsoever to claim any joint ownership of the recordings nor any co-authorship in the compositions.

Therefore the recording he has released is, by definition, a bootleg.

jaypotton said:

MiceElfAgin said:

.

"Unofficial as opposed to a bootleg"? Bootlegs ARE unofficial releases, so I don't see your point. Deliverance is a bootleg, regardless of Boxill earning anything or not. There's no difference at all.

I think we are agreeing! The distinction is was making is fans getting it for free or paying someone. You should read the rest of my posts across various threads on this topic as you will see my position on this.

.
As I said before, it doesn't matter if Boxill gave it away for free or sold it. Legally there is no distinction at all, it's still an unauthorised release, or in other words: a bootleg. So your "unofficial as opposed to a bootleg" comment makes no sense at all.

MiceElfAgin said:

Hmmm as I said I agree with you. If you actually read all my posts on this thread and others on the same topic you will see that A) I do not support this release and B) Perfectly understand copyright issues etc.

Perhaps "unofficial" vs "bootleg" were the wrong choice of words. The point I was making when I said he would have been better releasing it for free was recognising the insatiable appetite of Prince fans to get hold of everything. I just don't think people should pay for it and if they are like me then they will actually buy it when it gets an official release.

BTW - do you have any bootlegs?

new article about it and interview with the indie labels head....

http://www.rollingstone.c...th-w478780

[Edited 4/26/17 8:38am]

[Edited 4/26/17 8:46am]

purpleprime said:

They are mental and he is going to be ordered to turn everything over to the estate and will be lucky if he his not sued out of exsistence.

laurarichardson said:

purpleprime said:

new article about it and interview with the indie labels head....

"How much more material does Boxill have?

Staley: Ian had access to a lot more material that he and Prince had worked on together. But he felt that this small selection was specifically something Prince would have wanted out. He just did not want in any way to put just a mass compilation or a longer album of all the songs he had — things he didn't feel like Prince would have wanted, things he felt were incomplete or couldn't be completed in the way that Prince wanted. That's why we put together a small sampling of things he really felt Prince would have stood behind and that honored his legacy. "

.....oh dear

http://www.rollingstone.c...th-w478780

[Edited 4/26/17 8:38am]

[Edited 4/26/17 8:46am]

They are mental and he is going to be ordered to turn everything over to the estate and will be lucky if he his not sued out of exsistence.

to be honest Ive listened to "Deliverence" ...and something about the mix if very off...also Prince's lead vocal...is not loud enough and sounds very low...glad he wont be releaisng it...

purpleprime said:

What an outrageous and impossible to substantiate claim!

At the risk of someone telling me I should research this on princevault does anyone know off the top of their head know how much work Ian Boxill has done with Prince and over what period.

Regardless of copyright issues, can he with any legitimacy claim he would know what Prince would have wanted?

As I have said before (can't remember on which of these Deliverance based threads as losing track) Prince has only give a co-producer credit twice as far as I can remember (there may be others but the point is it is very very rare in an almost 40 year career) and that was to long term friend Kirk J and to Josh (for some crazy reason, ie he was his drummers husband).

jaypotton said:

What an outrageous and impossible to substantiate claim! At the risk of someone telling me I should research this on princevault does anyone know off the top of their head know how much work Ian Boxill has done with Prince and over what period. Regardless of copyright issues, can he with any legitimacy claim he would know what Prince would have wanted? As I have said before (can't remember on which of these Deliverance based threads as losing track) Prince has only give a co-producer credit twice as far as I can remember (there may be others but the point is it is very very rare in an almost 40 year career) and that was to long term friend Kirk J and to Josh (for some crazy reason, ie he was his drummers husband).

Your absoloutley correct...it makes me feel sick, im sure this wont be the last time either sadly.....

You should read this article about the Vault that was posted by the New Yorker a few day's ago titled

"The Unique Problem Posed By Prince's Unreleased Songs" ...its very intresting.... - http://www.newyorker.com/...ased-songs

Prince Estate getting in a tiz and at cross purposes over the vault

[Edited 4/26/17 10:05am]