Superconductor said:

rogifan said:

Yeah prior to 4/21/2016 if someone had told me Prince had a painkiller dependency I probably wouldn't have believed it. So what? This has nothing to do with thinking the man can do no wrong. Whatever problems he was having did not spill over in to his music, live performances/appearances, interactions with fans etc. he wasn't living a lie in my eyes because he never claimed he was this perfect human being with no faults.

His problems did not spill over ... he wasn't living a lie? Really?? Maybe he wasn't lying to you, but to others around him and to himself? He was hiding opioids in vitamin bottles, got Rx on other people's names.... He should have taken a year off and gotten proper medical care to treat his chronic pain and get him off the opioids! That would have been not living a lie. Instead he tried to maintain the same lifestyle, performances and musical output of earlier years and wrecked himself. Plus got himself somehow illegal opioids laced with fentanyl! And what sort of fan are you people who seem to not mind his addiction as long as the musical output is there and the performances are on point? Maybe wanting to meet those fan expectations contributed to his situation? I just feel so sad for him that nobody in his inner circle helped him until it was too late!!

But can you really treat chronic pain, other than with pain killers? It's called chronic for a reason.

Maybe he had to maintain the same performances and musical output? He had expenses, people on his payroll. Maybe he couldn't afford to slow down?

Superconductor said:

laurarichardson said:

Exactly ,the lack of compassion from some fans is mind boggling.

Ultimately the responsibility was with Prince, and he failed himself. Nothing 1contessa wrote suggests lack of compassion. Opioid addiction is not like parkinsons or MS. There is nothing one can do about those illnesses other than manage them as best as possible. Opioid addiction on the other hand can be be stopped. And if chronic pain was indeed the cause of the initial dependency then even more reason to seek professional help for pain management. The fatal OD was totally preventable but the life situation Prince had created for himself over the many years was one where he was the boss and if he didn't like what he was hearing the person was gone from his inner circle, so nobody spoke up as the power of his fame and the opportunities it brought were a strong incentive not to say anything and look the other way.

The whole fact that chronic pain is an if to you is the problem. He had surgery and I am sure he had a Rx for pain meds at some point so how did he not seek professional help.

The rehab he was going to do also handles pain management so what evdience do you have that he had not tried all avenues that were avalible.

Pain meds are used to manage pain for some people this the only option for relief. You have no idea what effort he was making.

paulludvig said:

Superconductor said:

rogifan said: His problems did not spill over ... he wasn't living a lie? Really?? Maybe he wasn't lying to you, but to others around him and to himself? He was hiding opioids in vitamin bottles, got Rx on other people's names.... He should have taken a year off and gotten proper medical care to treat his chronic pain and get him off the opioids! That would have been not living a lie. Instead he tried to maintain the same lifestyle, performances and musical output of earlier years and wrecked himself. Plus got himself somehow illegal opioids laced with fentanyl! And what sort of fan are you people who seem to not mind his addiction as long as the musical output is there and the performances are on point? Maybe wanting to meet those fan expectations contributed to his situation? I just feel so sad for him that nobody in his inner circle helped him until it was too late!!

But can you really treat chronic pain, other than with pain killers? It's called chronic for a reason.

Maybe he had to maintain the same performances and musical output? He had expenses, people on his payroll. Maybe he couldn't afford to slow down?

I suspect he could not afford to completly stop working. It looks like he paired down his staff and cut his expense but he had a 65k sq foot building and property taxes to pay. It would not have taken a day to whine everything and sell off properties.

It would have been a massive and time consuming project to get to a point were he did not have to work at all.

No one ever said he was perfect. Push, the Grafiti Bridge movie and the Call The Law video are more damning evidence of the fact that he is human than his opioid addiction if you ask me. On the real, when I see the Call the Law video I am actually more embarassed about that than how he died. I can explain the way he died. I can't explain that hot mess coming from the same man who brought us Last December. Anyway, long live Peter Bravestrong. He had fun and made the world a better place to die.

Superfan1984 said:

But one thing that has me really confused- If there were, indeed, pills "all over Paisley Park," then, why was he seen outside Walgreens, supposedly feigning for his prescription? Why be so desperate for that prescription to be filled if there were pills all over Paisley Park? Kind of makes it look like all those pills all over PP were staged and that maybe something untoward did happen to him.

This is pure speculation, but...maybe, at that point, he suspected there was something wrong with some of the pills. Maybe his first brush with the illicit, fentanyl-laced pills was on the plane from Atlanta – and he just didn't know anymore which ones at Paisley Park were "okay." So he got some from a legit source to tide him over.

I still believe that the reason he was in that elevator is because he knew he'd taken the wrong thing accidentally - and was trying to get help.

donnyenglish said:

Lovejunky said:

His death along with learning about this ALias PROVES Princes faith in GOD.

He did live lean and Healthy..where have you been..Hiding under a rock...?

have you ever been in extreme pain ?

You can Judge all you want...

Taking pain pills in order to keep working and in Princes Case..

KEEP GIVING is

HEROIC

Exactly. Thanks for this.

Indeed he was heroic for continuing to give under those conditions.

Part of the unsealed docs stated he was in withdrawal for a few weeks prior to his death. I wonder if Vanity was a wake up call to him to get clean, in true Prince fashion, like all things in his life, being afraid of nothing, he tried it cold turkey and ultimately paid the price for that. If Vanity never left us I believe he would still be with us as well, as he would not have gone cold turkey, and probably still be taking whatever he was taking to keep him writing and performing.

Anyway, just extrapolation on my part, even if is the case, you can't blame anyone for that, we all make our own decisions and who knows, perhaps it was divine providence that it was suppsoed to go down that way.

Or, perhaps the more sinister side of his departure is more true than we all know....that we will never know either.

All I do know is that Prince was a wonderful giving funky soul, a role model as a musician and as a human being. He WILLcontinue to inspire until the end of time.

CandyCool said:

"Peter found bravery and strength in following Christ. “There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear” (1 John 4:18)."

"Brave & Strong" is the name of a Sly & The Family Stone song from what has been said was his favorite Sly album, "There's A Riot Goin' On" ... that's what I got out of that alias.

[Edited 4/18/17 11:33am]

[Edited 4/18/17 11:34am]

His drug name.

Some of ya'll are too mad. The man is dead. What's the point in all this back and forth. Just be happy that he lived and gave us some funky music. His personal life and struggles and demons are nobody's business but his own.

2freaky4church1 said:

His drug name.

Ëh... no.

Genesia said:

Superfan1984 said:

But one thing that has me really confused- If there were, indeed, pills "all over Paisley Park," then, why was he seen outside Walgreens, supposedly feigning for his prescription? Why be so desperate for that prescription to be filled if there were pills all over Paisley Park? Kind of makes it look like all those pills all over PP were staged and that maybe something untoward did happen to him.

This is pure speculation, but...maybe, at that point, he suspected there was something wrong with some of the pills. Maybe his first brush with the illicit, fentanyl-laced pills was on the plane from Atlanta – and he just didn't know anymore which ones at Paisley Park were "okay." So he got some from a legit source to tide him over.

I still believe that the reason he was in that elevator is because he knew he'd taken the wrong thing accidentally - and was trying to get help.

Here is my speculation on that point: Now that we know that Schulenberg prescribed him two anxiety medications and one for nausea, I assume that he was trying to get those prescriptions filled and maybe they didn't have one or more of them. That happens all the time when you go to pharmacies. Maybe he felt like he needed the medication that was prescribed to get him through the night because he was clearly going through withdrawal symptoms at the time. This makes me sad.

1contessa said:

Purplestar88 said:

No one is perfect but you are saying he wasn't the person you thought he was but now you are claiming you don't put celebs on a pedestal. That is on you if you put him on a pedestal.

Trust, I know that no one is perfect, and like it or not, Prince wasn't the person that many of us here thought he was, and I don't mean that in an awful way! I mean it in the way that, how many of us thought Prince would never ever touch drugs, but was shocked to find out that he had an addiction! That is what I mean! I didn't put him on a pedestal, and I knew full well that he was human and made mistakes just like we all do.

^^^

Couldnt agree more! Prince portrayed the better parts of himself as well as the higher self he strived to be to the world (and us Fams). Many many people view RX drugs very different from street drugs. Especially Prince's generation. Lets not be too hard on him... Also, once you are in an addiction it is very very hard to get control of. This doesnt make him less than who he was as a man, an artist or a servant to his God. I know our (the Fams) emotions are frayed but let's try really hard to look at him in totality.... I also had a hard time at first and was even angry at him. I mean how could he allow himself to get so addicted? But then some time went by and I listened to other Opiod Addicts and then I began to understand. I am proud of all he accomplished in his lifetime. I am proud of the way he didnt have scandal after scandal in the media.

He was a man,in all his imperfectness. And we learn more as the real man emerges....he had many flaws and theses flaws led him to create the body of work that shared with all of us. Show compassion and remember that none of us are better than the other.

i think the addiction was just a symptom of the true cause of his death - the lifetyle he led, keeping up Paisley Park, employing so many people, and pumping out music for us all the time without really taking a break.

i don't fault him for this. he did what he did, he was 'Prince' for us at a huge price to himself, and i still love him. i'm sorry he passed in pain, but i hugely admire what he accomplished, no matter what

XxAxX said:

i think the addiction was just a symptom of the true cause of his death - the lifetyle he led, keeping up Paisley Park, employing so many people, and pumping out music for us all the time without really taking a break.

i don't fault him for this. he did what he did, he was 'Prince' for us at a huge price to himself, and i still love him. i'm sorry he passed in pain, but i hugely admire what he accomplished, no matter what

Exactly. We won't know officially for 30 years or so... unless someone else decided to speak up.

Genesia said:

Superfan1984 said:

But one thing that has me really confused- If there were, indeed, pills "all over Paisley Park," then, why was he seen outside Walgreens, supposedly feigning for his prescription? Why be so desperate for that prescription to be filled if there were pills all over Paisley Park? Kind of makes it look like all those pills all over PP were staged and that maybe something untoward did happen to him.

This is pure speculation, but...maybe, at that point, he suspected there was something wrong with some of the pills. Maybe his first brush with the illicit, fentanyl-laced pills was on the plane from Atlanta – and he just didn't know anymore which ones at Paisley Park were "okay." So he got some from a legit source to tide him over.

I still believe that the reason he was in that elevator is because he knew he'd taken the wrong thing accidentally - and was trying to get help.

Yes. I totally agree.

Genesia said:

CandyCool said:

"Peter found bravery and strength in following Christ. “There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear” (1 John 4:18)."

US FUNK MASTERS KNOW ---> SLY STONE!

And this thread started off so beautiful. Anyway, thank you to CandyCool for your deeply moving post.

rogifan said:

1contessa said:

I'm sorry, but no, he wasn't brave and strong. Brave and strong doesn't hide pills all over the place, and live in addiction while pretending to live clean and healthy. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I hate it when some put blinders on and pretend like Prince was perfect and could do no wrong! He wasn't perfect, he was human like us all, and he wasn't the person that many of us thought he was, and his death proved that.

Judgmental much? Nothing that has come out in the last year changes what he was to me while he was alive. I don't think anybody here has ever claimed he was perfect either.

CandyCool said:

"Peter found bravery and strength in following Christ. “There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear” (1 John 4:18)."

Thank you so much for sharing this. I know Prince was a Christian and it seems so much like him to have used an alias like Peter Bravestrong. WOW!!!

stlmuziqlvr said:

Sorry, I do not subscribe to the caste system in medical illness. Those who develop a dependency on pain meds are no different than those with cancer, MS, or any other illness. I refuse to judge Prince for his dependency just as I would not judge any other human being with a medical issue. However, the suggestion that one illness is more acceptable than another keeps many of those who need help hidden in the shadows. Superconductor said:

Ultimately the responsibility was with Prince, and he failed himself. Nothing 1contessa wrote suggests lack of compassion. Opioid addiction is not like parkinsons or MS. There is nothing one can do about those illnesses other than manage them as best as possible. Opioid addiction on the other hand can be be stopped. And if chronic pain was indeed the cause of the initial dependency then even more reason to seek professional help for pain management. The fatal OD was totally preventable but the life situation Prince had created for himself over the many years was one where he was the boss and if he didn't like what he was hearing the person was gone from his inner circle, so nobody spoke up as the power of his fame and the opportunities it brought were a strong incentive not to say anything and look the other way.

Nobody is judging Prince and nobody suggested that one illness is more acceptable than another.

.

Does anybody actually read my posts and comprehend them?? What is this with these strawman argument responses??

.

It is incorrect and insensitive to suggest a person with opioid addiction is the same as someone with an illness like cancer or MS.

Because addiction is treatable and not terminal if treated by a medical professional.

Some of you, you sound like Prince made a sacrifice, like he gave his life to perform FOR US.

Speak for yourselves.
Do you realize that you're basically saying that his audience/fans killed him,
that we're the very reason he died? What's wrong with you?

I'm sorry if the sad celebration is making you this blind.
This is a very sad and difficult month for us all, I don't blame anyone for losing it, me included.

I don't blame 1contessa for trying to put some sense and adulthood in the discussion.
I don't blame laurarichardson for stuttering on the hip pain, because she wants to make so sure we all get he wasn't an addict in the crackhead sense.
This is all out of love.

But to me, "brave" and "strong" would have been stop worrying of all the things he felt he had to prove to himself. "Brave" and "strong" would have been taking months, years of sabbatical after Boy Gregory's death. Not going on Oprah — now that I think about it, probably high as a kite — and act as if nothing happened.

If his pursuit of perfection, or rather, being perfect, to which some of you attach non-sensical christian values, was the cause of his death, then fuck perfection!

I love him, we all do, but he was no Mother Teresa. Prince performing was not Jesus curing the blind, or feeding the poor. It's admirable that he gave so much to charities, but going on stage for money or applauses is far from, say, selling Paisley Park, his rights, the Vault and all of his clothes for buying food for Somalia.

I'm proud, as much as I can be of a person I did not know intimately, of him for all he did for Baltimore, for education, and God knows for how many good deeds during the years. But this is also a man who spent a fortune, almost to the point of bankruptcy in hotel suites, custom-made suits, luxury cars, and big budget photo and video shootings of himself. For a great deal of years.

Now north americans (what the heck, any western world dude by now) and their wasp capitalist culture, for the most part think it's enough to donate, and even if you're a zillionaire, you'll go to heaven. But if you call yourself a "christian", then go to Matthew 19:24 to correct your distorded Corporate World view on life, and what true sacrifice really is (Mark 12:44).

So Jesus he wasn't, and the only brave and strong move on his part would have been to admit he needed help. But the substance had probably won over any sane reflex of survival by then.
Don't try to impute logical motives or decisions to a man who is lost to himself for months, maybe years.

If this shit is more potent than heroin, then there was nothing anyone could have done, except taking him by force, put him in a straightjacket and see him vomit, cry, yell for days, hoping the withdrawal won't kill him. "Brave" and "strong", in this particular case, is what Miles Davis and Ray Charles did, when they took the risk of going insane for getting their monkeys off their backs.
But they did. And I want to believe he would have. But these were other times. Everyone's a coward nowadays. Yes, all the "yes" women and men who could have made a change, I'm talking right to you.

I don't blame Prince, nobody warned him. I think the Reelz show, for all of its flaws, is the best homage I've seen all year. It's sad, and dark. But it's honest. When Moon says he wished Prince had lived a normal life, porch rather than Porsche, when Husney speaks of "too many yesses", these are words coming from true friendship and love. Generous words from men who benefited almost nothing from Prince's career, yet were instrumental.

But when I read some orgers stating that he gave his life so we could be entertained until the last minute, that's not love, it's the most irresponsably, stupid selfish thing I ever heard. He kept performing because it was the only place where he felt he was not entirely alone. He kept performing because those were the only times where he felt like he was meaningful to someone. He was probably trying to find some strength in the love of the audience. Some strength to quit, or at least some strength for his coming out.

But his ego won. His shame won. Sure he tried to be brave, but he mistook the bravery of asking for help, with the blind, dumb bravery of some Broadway hero who'd rather risk dying on stage than missing a single show.

This was not bravery. This was presumptuousness to think you're strong enough to defeat the devil himself. Because that is what Opium is.

[Edited 4/18/17 20:15pm]

1contessa said:

donnyenglish said:

1contessa said: Opioid addiction is an epidemic. The sad truth is he was a victim to it like many thousands of people. There is no shame in the way his life ended. We all have to die and we all won't die of old age. He lived with strength and bravery.

Apparently there was a lot of shame to Prince in what he was doing, or he wouldn't have hidden it like he did, even from those that knew him or were close to him. Strength and bravery is not having lots of aliases, and getting drugs from different sources, abusing them. Prince was rich, and if he was in pain, there were many other ways and resources that he could have used to deal with it. There are people that are seriously ill with cancer, MS, parkinsons, etc, that deal with it everyday, fighting valiantly, dealing with chemo, etc! They are the ones that are living with strength and bravery!

Chile please. Who are you to judge another's actions? Are you perfect? Is your life void of sin, transgression or hidden, tragic secrets? Instead of being so quick to belittle and besmirch, how about following Apostle Simon/Peter's example in discipleship with Jesus Christ, you know, showing love, compassion, faith, empathy and humility.

sharpieheartz said:

Not to throw this thread off track, but Andy Allo has an unreleased song in the vault about Prince called Mr. Bravestrong. I'm wondering now whether that has any connection with the new news?

That's right!!! I had forgotten that her brother played "Mr. Bravestrong" on Music Monday while Andy was away for her New Year's retreat this year. I found my post from January 3 on the one thread about Prince and Andy's collaborations that is still available. Thanks for the reminder, sharpieheartz.

Andy's Music Monday was conducted last evening by her brother Chris. He played live performances of two songs from Superconductor: "Yellow Gold" and "Nothing More." The third song, the audio of which was played twice, was an unreleased track that was also intended for that album, but it did not make the cut. The upbeat dance tune called "Mr. Bravestrong" was written by Andy and produced by Prince. It was hard to hear it very well since he was playing it from, I believe, an MP3 on his computer, but it sounds like P might have even done some background vocals.

FlyOnTheWall said:

bonatoc said:

Some of you, you sound like Prince made a sacrifice, like he gave his life to perform FOR US.

Speak for yourselves.
Do you realize that you're basically saying that his audience/fans killed him,
that we're the very reason he died? What's wrong with you?

I'm sorry if the sad celebration is making you this blind.
This is a very sad and difficult month for us all, I don't blame anyone for losing it, me included.

I don't blame 1contessa for trying to put some sense and adulthood in the discussion.
I don't blame laurarichardson for stuttering on the hip pain, because she wants to make so sure we all get he wasn't an addict in the crackhead sense.
This is all out of love.

But to me, "brave" and "strong" would have been stop worrying of all the things he felt he had to prove to himself. "Brave" and "strong" would have been taking months, years of sabbatical after Boy Gregory's death. Not going on Oprah — now that I think about it, probably high as a kite — and act as if nothing happened.

If his pursuit of perfection, or rather, being perfect, to which some of you attach non-sensical christian values, was the cause of his death, then fuck perfection!

I love him, we all do, but he was no Mother Teresa. Prince performing was not Jesus curing the blind, or feeding the poor. It's admirable that he gave so much to charities, but going on stage for money or applauses is far from, say, selling Paisley Park, his rights, the Vault and all of his clothes for buying food for Somalia.

I'm proud, as much as I can be of a person I did not know intimately, of him for all he did for Baltimore, for education, and God knows for how many good deeds during the years. But this is also a man who spent a fortune, almost to the point of bankruptcy in hotel suites, custom-made suits, luxury cars, and big budget photo and video shootings of himself. For a great deal of years.

Now north americans (what the heck, any western world dude by now) and their wasp capitalist culture, for the most part think it's enough to donate, and even if you're a zillionaire, you'll go to heaven. But if you call yourself a "christian", then go to Matthew 19:24 to correct your distorded Corporate World view on life, and what true sacrifice really is (Mark 12:44).

So Jesus he wasn't, and the only brave and strong move on his part would have been to admit he needed help. But the substance had probably won over any sane reflex of survival by then.
Don't try to impute logical motives or decisions to a man who is lost to himself for months, maybe years.

If this shit is more potent than heroin, then there was nothing anyone could have done, except taking him by force, put him in a straightjacket and see him vomit, cry, yell for days, hoping the withdrawal won't kill him. "Brave" and "strong", in this particular case, is what Miles Davis and Ray Charles did, when they took the risk of going insane for getting their monkeys off their backs.
But they did. And I want to believe he would have. But these were other times. Everyone's a coward nowadays. Yes, all the "yes" women and men who could have made a change, I'm talking right to you.

I don't blame Prince, nobody warned him. I think the Reelz show, for all of its flaws, is the best homage I've seen all year. It's sad, and dark. But it's honest. When Moon says he wished Prince had lived a normal life, porch rather than Porsche, when Husney speaks of "too many yesses", these are words coming from true friendship and love. Generous words from men who benefited almost nothing from Prince's career, yet were instrumental.

But when I read some orgers stating that he gave his life so we could be entertained until the last minute, that's not love, it's the most irresponsably, stupid selfish thing I ever heard. He kept performing because it was the only place where he felt he was not entirely alone. He kept performing because those were the only times where he felt like he was meaningful to someone. He was probably trying to find some strength in the love of the audience. Some strength to quit, or at least some strength for his coming out.

But his ego won. His shame won. Sure he tried to be brave, but he mistook the bravery of asking for help, with the blind, dumb bravery of some Broadway hero who'd rather risk dying on stage than missing a single show.

This was not bravery. This was presumptuousness to think you're strong enough to defeat the devil himself. Because that is what Opium is.

[Edited 4/18/17 20:15pm]

Agree.