I like many of Prince's lyrics. Don't get me wrong. They are often funny, sexy, romantic, descriptive, colorful, dirty in the best sense, spiritual and introspective. They can also have good narrative structure.

But they also could be off in left field, politically confusing, too religious for their own good, trashy in worst sense and repetitive.

Anyway, we were talking in another thread about some of Prince's half assed notions, paranoid conspiracy theories, and 'ignorant' beliefs which all exemplify the expression "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

PRince had a naturally quick brain, a wit, a prying mind, and even a sensitivity. Imagine what he could have done with this natural ability if he had more formal education, less religious doctrine shoved down his throat by father figures (yes LG and daddy Nelson) and a slighly more humanist rather than spiritual take on his talent.

I don't mind spirituality or a belief that music has spiritual elements to it...but Prince being a vessel for the music of God stuff at times stiffled his creativity. Insulated him. A great lyricist reads novels not conspiracy books. They read the Bible but they also read Shakespeare.

I think his personal issues at times got in the way of his lyricism. I wish someone could have kidnapped him for a year (or better yet convinced him) to sit down and read 100 of the best poems ever written and ten great history books with various POV (not just Afrocentric ones) on one subject he was passionate about.

[Edited 3/18/17 22:27pm]

No offense. But just because you don't get him doesn't mean I don't.

I'm black, so I don't mind the Afrocentric viewpoint at all...shit, I subscribe to it given all the lies and evil that have gone against black people in this world.

In my opinion, I just don't trust men...if they're not black to have my back or believe in my people or my struggles or truths.

Chemtrails might sound funny to you, but given that white men have dropped bombs and raped, murdered, lynched, burned and castrated black men and women in the past causes those of us who do know the truth about a certain color of men to speak freely, feelings be damned.

Prince was one of those men.

If you don't think Chemtrails are real, that's on you...that doesn't make it a lie. There are a lot of evil things in this world that are very real.

Peace

Hear me out. It couldn't be earlier in his life. It would have to be later. Let's say he lived (oh, God, wouldn't that had been great), had a change of heart after writing his memoirs and then decided to spend a year hanging with Wendy and Lisa and reading and kicking back and recuperating from his drug rehabs. And then came back with all that he had learned and started writing again. IMagine that.

The Leeds brothers acting like PRince was not made to live a long life into old age...BULLSHIT. He accomplished a lot but in many ways he was still a work in progress...even if he thought he was coming to the end of his life soon...a few more years of brilliance was not impossible or beyond his reach. It was so close at hand. If he just waiting one more day before taking a damn fentanyl laced pill..when the doctor was there to stop him.

laytonian said:

. I hear ya BUT the total package is what gave us 38 years much damned good music and even more brilliance. . Pulling P down to earth might have put him in a minor troubadour stance. But it may have been better for him personally. .

I have no problem with Afrocentric takes on history but perhaps a variety would be good. I like that Prince is in touch with his roots and subculture. I don't like the limits he seemed to place on the books he reads though.

I don't buy into Chemtrails. but I do buy into the conspiracies against black people that are the result of exploitation, bigotry, and/or indifference. The government in the past and presently is very much guilty of that. so I am not really disagreeing with you there.

White people can be titanic shits. But let's not generalize too much. We are mixed bag, us caucasians. I know a few black people who have shown prejudice against Mexicans and homosexuals. So, bigotry is not exclusively a white thing. HOwever, it can be said that white people have mastered bigotry at the highest level.

williamb610 said:

No offense. But just because you don't get him doesn't mean I don't.

I'm black, so I don't mind the Afrocentric viewpoint at all...shit, I subscribe to it given all the lies and evil that have gone against black people in this world.

In my opinion, I just don't trust men...if they're not black to have my back or believe in my people or my struggles or truths.

Chemtrails might sound funny to you, but given that white men have dropped bombs and raped, murdered, lynched, burned and castrated black men and women in the past causes those of us who do know the truth about a certain color of men to speak freely, feelings be damned.

Prince was one of those men.

If you don't think Chemtrails are real, that's on you...that doesn't make it a lie. There are a lot of evil things in this world that are very real.

Peace

[Edited 3/18/17 23:03pm]

[Edited 3/18/17 23:05pm]

williamb610 said:

No offense. But just because you don't get him doesn't mean I don't.

I'm black, so I don't mind the Afrocentric viewpoint at all...shit, I subscribe to it given all the lies and evil that have gone against black people in this world.

In my opinion, I just don't trust men...if they're not black to have my back or believe in my people or my struggles or truths.

Chemtrails might sound funny to you, but given that white men have dropped bombs and raped, murdered, lynched, burned and castrated black men and women in the past causes those of us who do know the truth about a certain color of men to speak freely, feelings be damned.

Prince was one of those men.

If you don't think Chemtrails are real, that's on you...that doesn't make it a lie. There are a lot of evil things in this world that are very real.

Peace

Trust me, make friends in person with any scientist / researcher in the field of contrails, the atmosphere or even chemical weaponization to find out if chemtrails are real for yourself. For that matter, people should do that for anything that is science/theoretical/conspiracy tinged they read or watch a video about... get out there and find out from an expert in the field that you know in person.

And some things are certainly an unsubstantiated superstitious and illogical lie.

As Prince said in "I like it there" - "What could I say that Shakespeare hasn't said before.

I think Prince had a pretty unique "voice" as a lyricist. He loved films, lived in an artistic world with acess to photographers, film makers, singer, actors, actresses, comedians, writers and designers, so I am sure that helped him. What I like is that he often kept true to himself rather than trying to outdo Keats or Byron for example. He wrote some fantastic pop songs (think of the effortless whimsical effectiveness of Rasberry Beret) and also was able to capture a lot of his humour and personality in his songs. Both are hard to put into a song.

He had a voracious knowledge for learning and an intellectual curiosity, so I feel he may have explored some of those "top 100" poems you mentioned as just an example. I feel that the conspiracy theory stuff, or the JW dogma was something that was maybe not the best things to be reading. However he was who he was. You change some things about Prince and maybe you lose some of the music, lyrics and fashion that you love. His artistic makeup is like the time stream in HG Wells "The Time Machine." Change some details and maybe you don't get "mutiny" or "head" etc.

You have to take the good with the bad, and embrace the fact that I assume most people on this site will see Prince provided much more good than bad. I personally feel littlle could have been done to improve his lyrics, as his "natural" ability made his voice distinctive. I think he did make efforts to use a reasonable vocabulary for interest and variety - For example the "plethora of euphoria" in Good Love or this verse from Eternity "Seems like eternity since I've been in your arms
A multitude of colorless hours pass I crave the life inside U, it keeps me from harm
I only pray that it's not just another god." I think at the highest level of poetry his songs may not compete with a poet laureate, but I certainly see merit in his writing.

Here is an analogy that may or may not work. If only Shaquille could make free throws. Shaquille was one of the most dynamic physical forces in basketball, combining raw power with agression, speed and co-ordination. If he could have made 80% of his free throws, he would have made more points, and potentially won more games. It just wasn't meant to be.

I do think this was a very interesting question and it was an interesting idea. Prince did so many things already that other greats did not. We are blessed to be his fans.

If one thing about Prince's life had been different, if he had learned different lessons, experienced different ideologies besides the ones he did, he would not have been Prince. I think Prince liked who he was, where he was, and I know I certainly did. I wouldn't have changed anything about him.

purplerabbithole said:

I like many of Prince's lyrics. Don't get me wrong. They are often funny, sexy, romantic, descriptive, colorful, dirty in the best sense, spiritual and introspective. They can also have good narrative structure.

But they also could be off in left field, politically confusing, too religious for their own good, trashy in worst sense and repetitive.

Anyway, we were talking in another thread about some of Prince's half assed notions, paranoid conspiracy theories, and 'ignorant' beliefs which all exemplify the expression "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

PRince had a naturally quick brain, a wit, a prying mind, and even a sensitivity. Imagine what he could have done with this natural ability if he had more formal education, less religious doctrine shoved down his throat by father figures (yes LG and daddy Nelson) and a slighly more humanist rather than spiritual take on his talent.

I don't mind spirituality or a belief that music has spiritual elements to it...but Prince being a vessel for the music of God stuff at times stiffled his creativity. Insulated him. A great lyricist reads novels not conspiracy books. They read the Bible but they also read Shakespeare.

I think his personal issues at times got in the way of his lyricism. I wish someone could have kidnapped him for a year (or better yet convinced him) to sit down and read 100 of the best poems ever written and ten great history books with various POV (not just Afrocentric ones) on one subject he was passionate about.

[Edited 3/18/17 22:27pm]

.

I don't agree with our overall premise.

ufoclub said:

purplerabbithole said:

I like many of Prince's lyrics. Don't get me wrong. They are often funny, sexy, romantic, descriptive, colorful, dirty in the best sense, spiritual and introspective. They can also have good narrative structure.

But they also could be off in left field, politically confusing, too religious for their own good, trashy in worst sense and repetitive.

Anyway, we were talking in another thread about some of Prince's half assed notions, paranoid conspiracy theories, and 'ignorant' beliefs which all exemplify the expression "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

PRince had a naturally quick brain, a wit, a prying mind, and even a sensitivity. Imagine what he could have done with this natural ability if he had more formal education, less religious doctrine shoved down his throat by father figures (yes LG and daddy Nelson) and a slighly more humanist rather than spiritual take on his talent.

I don't mind spirituality or a belief that music has spiritual elements to it...but Prince being a vessel for the music of God stuff at times stiffled his creativity. Insulated him. A great lyricist reads novels not conspiracy books. They read the Bible but they also read Shakespeare.

I think his personal issues at times got in the way of his lyricism. I wish someone could have kidnapped him for a year (or better yet convinced him) to sit down and read 100 of the best poems ever written and ten great history books with various POV (not just Afrocentric ones) on one subject he was passionate about.

[Edited 3/18/17 22:27pm]

prince was an amazing artist and a great lyricist because he DID NOT do what his fans expected him to do. he DID NOT what reaching the charts required and DID NOT what anyone asked him for. he just did what he wanted to do. he wrote about what he was feeling and about what he was concerned that very moment. and he allowed himself to grow and change his mind. and this was one of his greatest strenghts that gave us so much wonderful music. that's what great lyrics are about. u don't have to agree with every line and any of his thoughts to enjoy his music. but just focusing on ENJOYING instead of searching for something to complain would be balsam for ur soul ...

lemoncrush19 said:

datdude said:

lemoncrush19 said:

prince was an amazing artist and a great lyricist because he DID NOT do what his fans expected him to do. he DID NOT what reaching the charts required and DID NOT what anyone asked him for. he just did what he wanted to do. he wrote about what he was feeling and about what he was concerned that very moment. and he allowed himself to grow and change his mind. and this was one of his greatest strenghts that gave us so much wonderful music. that's what great lyrics are about. u don't have to agree with every line and any of his thoughts to enjoy his music. but just focusing on ENJOYING instead of searching for something to complain would be balsam for ur soul ...

U mean, essentially if YOU were his ghostwriter!! GTFOH

wow ... what an elequent reply and precious contribution
have a beautiful sunday!

williamb610 said:

ufoclub said:

lemoncrush19 said:

purplerabbithole said:

I like many of Prince's lyrics. Don't get me wrong. They are often funny, sexy, romantic, descriptive, colorful, dirty in the best sense, spiritual and introspective. They can also have good narrative structure.

But they also could be off in left field, politically confusing, too religious for their own good, trashy in worst sense and repetitive.

Anyway, we were talking in another thread about some of Prince's half assed notions, paranoid conspiracy theories, and 'ignorant' beliefs which all exemplify the expression "A little learning is a dangerous thing."

PRince had a naturally quick brain, a wit, a prying mind, and even a sensitivity. Imagine what he could have done with this natural ability if he had more formal education, less religious doctrine shoved down his throat by father figures (yes LG and daddy Nelson) and a slighly more humanist rather than spiritual take on his talent.

I don't mind spirituality or a belief that music has spiritual elements to it...but Prince being a vessel for the music of God stuff at times stiffled his creativity. Insulated him. A great lyricist reads novels not conspiracy books. They read the Bible but they also read Shakespeare.

I think his personal issues at times got in the way of his lyricism. I wish someone could have kidnapped him for a year (or better yet convinced him) to sit down and read 100 of the best poems ever written and ten great history books with various POV (not just Afrocentric ones) on one subject he was passionate about.

[Edited 3/18/17 22:27pm]

Excellent post to start a thread! And I agree fully.

Too bad it got waylaid by Chemtrails, a lack of eloquence, and more org-patetented mental midgetry when it comes to race.

[Edited 3/19/17 9:16am]

Reading 100 poems and Shakespeare doesn't make someone a writer. Who knows what he would have come up...Don't be rude.

datdude said:

lemoncrush19 said:

prince was an amazing artist and a great lyricist because he DID NOT do what his fans expected him to do. he DID NOT what reaching the charts required and DID NOT what anyone asked him for. he just did what he wanted to do. he wrote about what he was feeling and about what he was concerned that very moment. and he allowed himself to grow and change his mind. and this was one of his greatest strenghts that gave us so much wonderful music. that's what great lyrics are about. u don't have to agree with every line and any of his thoughts to enjoy his music. but just focusing on ENJOYING instead of searching for something to complain would be balsam for ur soul ...

U mean, essentially if YOU were his ghostwriter!! GTFOH

No one asked him to censor himself. Can't a brother read literature and poetry? Okay, he could have read poetry and literature by the numerous influential black poets and novelists. Wouldn't PRince have been much better off reading James Baldwin than that stupid British conspiracy theorist he apparently used to read. Toni Morrison, Langston Hughes, Lorraine Hansberry rather than that bimbo who wrote about near death experiences.

Don't assume that my dislike of some of the stuff he read is because I want to "white-ify" prince. I may have wanted to secularize him a bit...that I am guilty of.

I am one of the people who thought Prince watching the Black State of the Union was a step in the right direction, but it wasn't enough IMO (even the few afrocentric books he seemed to like weren't enough). We don't know what was in the entirety of his library but too much of what we saw was mystical and conspiracy.

Anotehr point I want to make is that to support a POV about history (afrocentric, for example), you need to read the books written in other POV's. That's the only way to defend your stance..know your opposition.

laurarichardson said:

williamb610 said:

No offense. But just because you don't get him doesn't mean I don't.

I'm black, so I don't mind the Afrocentric viewpoint at all...shit, I subscribe to it given all the lies and evil that have gone against black people in this world.

In my opinion, I just don't trust men...if they're not black to have my back or believe in my people or my struggles or truths.

Chemtrails might sound funny to you, but given that white men have dropped bombs and raped, murdered, lynched, burned and castrated black men and women in the past causes those of us who do know the truth about a certain color of men to speak freely, feelings be damned.

Prince was one of those men.

If you don't think Chemtrails are real, that's on you...that doesn't make it a lie. There are a lot of evil things in this world that are very real.

Peace

-/Well said. Just like Jill Jones said Prince was not Sammy Lunchmeat he was a brother and he was not going to censor himself concerning religion, politics or the state of black America. Kind of interesting that as long as he was clowning around no one had a problem.

[Edited 3/19/17 9:54am]

williamb610 said:

LET me reiterate--I am not dissing on the Afrocentric viewpoint. I am saying 'know thine enemy' in a sense. In other words, if prince avoided reading other viewpoints, how can he fully support the view he prescribes to. Just taking things with tunnel vision is never good in my opinion.

RJOrion said:

williamb610 said:

No offense. But just because you don't get him doesn't mean I don't.

I'm black, so I don't mind the Afrocentric viewpoint at all...shit, I subscribe to it given all the lies and evil that have gone against black people in this world.

In my opinion, I just don't trust men...if they're not black to have my back or believe in my people or my struggles or truths.

Chemtrails might sound funny to you, but given that white men have dropped bombs and raped, murdered, lynched, burned and castrated black men and women in the past causes those of us who do know the truth about a certain color of men to speak freely, feelings be damned.

Prince was one of those men.

If you don't think Chemtrails are real, that's on you...that doesn't make it a lie. There are a lot of evil things in this world that are very real.

Peace

couldnt have said it better, myself...

I wrote based on trends. Simple lyrics equals hits which he was obsessed with. There's a hack in Prince most of us duck.

The only lyrical "improvement" I can imagine for Prince is a song written about me, preferably with my name in the title, leaving no room for uncertainty.

2freaky4church1 said:

purplerabbithole said:

I admitted that I didn't know the entirety of his library. I do know who Dr. Cornell West is. I still think Prince read some stupid ass shit.

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

No one asked him to censor himself. Can't a brother read literature and poetry? Okay, he could have read poetry and literature by the numerous influential black poets and novelists. Wouldn't PRince have been much better off reading James Baldwin than that stupid British conspiracy theorist he apparently used to read. Toni Morrison, Langston Hughes, Lorraine Hansberry rather than that bimbo who wrote about near death experiences.

Don't assume that my dislike of some of the stuff he read is because I want to "white-ify" prince. I may have wanted to secularize him a bit...that I am guilty of.

I am one of the people who thought Prince watching the Black State of the Union was a step in the right direction, but it wasn't enough IMO (even the few afrocentric books he seemed to like weren't enough). We don't know what was in the entirety of his library but too much of what we saw was mystical and conspiracy.

Anotehr point I want to make is that to support a POV about history (afrocentric, for example), you need to read the books written in other POV's. That's the only way to defend your stance..know your opposition.

[Edited 3/19/17 9:54am]

You do not what other books he had in his libery. Do you know that Van Jones said he could talk all day about ancient African Civilizations all day. Do you know Dr. Cornel West said he was a very sharp guy. I doubt if he only read conspiracy books and do not be so quick to write off conspiracies No one would believe Co Intel pro if the documents had not been leaked. Who would have belived the "Bay of Pigs" or " Iran Contra" or even Flint MI were idiot politicians told people and scientist nothing was wrong with taking a bath and having your skin turn orange.

said:

I didn't say all his ideas or books were dumb or that he didn't garner some interesting information from the books he read. I admitted that I don't know the full extent of his library (I sure hope its not stocked with conspiracy theory books and holocaust deniers..Okay, Probably it isn't. But we can't just assume he had profound works in there.) Judging merely by what we know he has read, I am saying he still read SOME ridiculous ass shit. Damn.

laurarichardson said:

Goggle is your friend and because he had a few conspiracy books in his office does not mean that is all he was reading. He had a lot about metaphysics and third eye stuff in his last projects. His whole idea about " Yes we can code" came from the idea of building our own Mark Zukerberg's and getting black people to be own their own business. said:

I admitted that I didn't know the entirety of his library. I do know who Dr. Cornell West is. I still think Prince read some stupid ass shit.

[Edited 3/19/17 12:30pm]