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Thread started 03/27/17 9:06am

TrivialPursuit

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Jerk Out - why Mazarati rejected it

So we know the story of Mazarati only taking "100 MPH" for their debut album, and saying "Jerk Out" had some violent or racist lyrics they didn't want to put out there. When I listen to the song, I could never figure out what the lyrics were that they objected to. What was that bad?

Then yesterday I ran across someone talked about their demo version Prince had them record, which differs from The Time's Pandemonium version. The third verse is really different:

I took her to my crib and I tied her up. I figured that's what she liked.
Maybe I was wrong but what the hell, it didn't matter to me. She was white.
I said "How come people in your neighborhood, don't like it when a brother's rich?
Ain't my blood the same color as yours? Answer that question, bitch!"

It just pisses you off to see me drivin' that fancy car, don't it?
Bet you'd rather see me drivin' one of those ester grate ones.
Like the one your daddy drives, wouldn't you?
Let me tell you one thing. That's dead!
About as dead as you'll be if you don't rearrange your brain.
Catch my drift. Turn it up!


Also, I was totally forgetting (unrelated to the violent lyrics) that Prince mentions out Vanity in it:

People, let me turn it up. Which coat should I wear tonight?
If you think I'm vain, you're right.
Look out, somebody say "Vanity", Vanity!
"Jerk out", Jerk out!
"Ow!", Ow!


The song dates to December 1981 (at the purple house), and was written during the What Time Is It? sessions, so the Vanity reference makes sense. PrinceVault states that the track was significally reworked by The Time for Corporate World which morphed into Pandemonium. The basic tracks were kept, as well as Casey Terry's backing vocals.

PV also states what inspired Prince to write the song. "The track's lyrics were inspired by an incident on the Controversy Tour, when some of The Time's band members were removed from a flight ("jerked out") for causing a disturbance."


I guess I just never heard the full demo, assuming it was the same.

[Edited 3/27/17 9:07am]

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #1 posted 03/27/17 12:13pm

Militant

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moderator

Yep, they weren't comfortable with those lyrics, and unlike The Time, didn't have enough clout with Prince to ask him to change them.

Sucks for them, because they lost two hit songs between that one and "Kiss".

Artistically I'm good with them not having the tracks, because to me their debut album is damn near flawless. But they maybe would have sold more records if they did have them.

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Reply #2 posted 03/27/17 2:15pm

SomeSoldier

Am I right to think that The Time also rejected if for Ice Cream Castles (or even What Time Is It, I can't remember)?
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Reply #3 posted 03/27/17 2:35pm

Adorecream

I heard they rejected it for the fact it was

.

1. It was too dirty and this si why they also rejected a song called "Feline".

2. They decided 1 Prince track was enough, and they had 100MPH on it already. Initially Mazarati were not happy with Prince's "interference"

Got some kind of love for you, and I don't even know your name
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Reply #4 posted 03/27/17 2:46pm

1725topp

So, does this mean that as early as 1981 Prince was already thinking about the "flaw" in the whole multicultural utopian society that he was building with his own persona? This is not a rhetorical question. I'm just wondering for all the folks who didn't like Prince's more Afrocentric work later in his career, how this would have struck or impacted them had this type of lyric that specifically addresses an African-American concern about racism been released at the apex of his popularity. These lyrics are definitely discussing the African-American concern of driving while black (DWB) along with being inspired by the airplane incident. And, this would have been seven years before NWA’s Straight Otta Compton.

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Reply #5 posted 03/27/17 3:12pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

Adorecream said:

I heard they rejected it for the fact it was

.

1. It was too dirty and this si why they also rejected a song called "Feline".

2. They decided 1 Prince track was enough, and they had 100MPH on it already. Initially Mazarati were not happy with Prince's "interference"

Feline was 4 the Family

Paul Peterson on recording the song "Feline" : (I was) trying to learn how to rap, I don't even know if they called it that then. I still remember that rap to this day for some reason. (Singing lyrics) "Feline, get my body working..."

It was funky, it was nasty and I was worried about what my mom would think. (Laughs). You know, (Prince) never talked to me about what the plan was (for that song). He and I didn't communicate on that level. That was his baby. So, I can't say for sure.

Feline is an unreleased song recorded on 14 July, 1984 at Flying Cloud Drive Warehouse (on the same day Prince flew to Dallas to attend the premiere of The Jacksons' Victory Tour), and was intended for The Family album. Paul Peterson confirmed in 2009 that he did record vocals for the track, confirming that a version by The Family does exist. The song was not included on the album, but a rap intended for Paul Peterson was later reworked for Sheila E. on the track Holly Rock when Peterson objected to the lyrics of the song and asked for it not to be included. Eric Leeds worked on the track again in 1990-1 for possible inclusion on his album Times Squared (presumably as an instrumental track), but it was not included on the final album.

There were two tracks that had been done that were going to be put on the second record. But, that was all put in the vault, because, (Peterson) left. But, we definitely had the plan of doing it. (Peterson's) unreleased track had something to do with a tiger or a jaguar, or something like that. I can't remember. You would have to ask him. It had to do with some animal. - Susnnah Melvoin

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Reply #6 posted 03/27/17 3:21pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

SomeSoldier said:

Am I right to think that The Time also rejected if for Ice Cream Castles (or even What Time Is It, I can't remember)?

3. What Time Is It?

In late December 1981, during a break at his "Controversy"-Tour, [Prince] starts the recording sessions for THE TIME's second album. He recorded Gigolos get lonely too and Jerk out at his home studio again. The last mentioned song didn't make it on this album, but a reworked version surfaced on THE TIME's 1990 reunion-album [Pandemonium].

Jerk out #2 (lead vocals by Mazarati) (7:07)
reworked April/May 1985 by [Prince] with Mazarati at Sunset Sound [7] during the "Mazarati" Album sessions • performed by [Prince] (all instruments) with Sir Casey Terry (lead & background vocals)
written by [Prince]

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Reply #7 posted 03/27/17 4:59pm

luvgirl

TrivialPursuit said:

So we know the story of Mazarati only taking "100 MPH" for their debut album, and saying "Jerk Out" had some violent or racist lyrics they didn't want to put out there. When I listen to the song, I could never figure out what the lyrics were that they objected to. What was that bad?

Then yesterday I ran across someone talked about their demo version Prince had them record, which differs from The Time's Pandemonium version. The third verse is really different:


I took her to my crib and I tied her up. I figured that's what she liked.
Maybe I was wrong but what the hell, it didn't matter to me. She was white.
I said "How come people in your neighborhood, don't like it when a brother's rich?
Ain't my blood the same color as yours? Answer that question, bitch!"


It just pisses you off to see me drivin' that fancy car, don't it?
Bet you'd rather see me drivin' one of those ester grate ones.
Like the one your daddy drives, wouldn't you?
Let me tell you one thing. That's dead!
About as dead as you'll be if you don't rearrange your brain.
Catch my drift. Turn it up!



Also, I was totally forgetting (unrelated to the violent lyrics) that Prince mentions out Vanity in it:



People, let me turn it up. Which coat should I wear tonight?
If you think I'm vain, you're right.
Look out, somebody say "Vanity", Vanity!
"Jerk out", Jerk out!
"Ow!", Ow!



The song dates to December 1981 (at the purple house), and was written during the What Time Is It? sessions, so the Vanity reference makes sense. PrinceVault states that the track was significally reworked by The Time for Corporate World which morphed into Pandemonium. The basic tracks were kept, as well as Casey Terry's backing vocals.

PV also states what inspired Prince to write the song. "The track's lyrics were inspired by an incident on the Controversy Tour, when some of The Time's band members were removed from a flight ("jerked out") for causing a disturbance."



I guess I just never heard the full demo, assuming it was the same.

[Edited 3/27/17 9:07am]



Whoa eek You just blew my mind! blowup You just added another reason along with Vanity's speaking vocals on the Walk, recorded Janurary 14th 1982 that solidifies my beliefs that Prince and Vanity met before January 25 1982 at the AMA... Thanks for this info!
[Edited 3/27/17 17:00pm]
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Reply #8 posted 03/27/17 5:47pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

luvgirl said:

TrivialPursuit said:

So we know the story of Mazarati only taking "100 MPH" for their debut album, and saying "Jerk Out" had some violent or racist lyrics they didn't want to put out there. When I listen to the song, I could never figure out what the lyrics were that they objected to. What was that bad?

Then yesterday I ran across someone talked about their demo version Prince had them record, which differs from The Time's Pandemonium version. The third verse is really different:

I took her to my crib and I tied her up. I figured that's what she liked.
Maybe I was wrong but what the hell, it didn't matter to me. She was white.
I said "How come people in your neighborhood, don't like it when a brother's rich?
Ain't my blood the same color as yours? Answer that question, bitch!"

It just pisses you off to see me drivin' that fancy car, don't it?
Bet you'd rather see me drivin' one of those ester grate ones.
Like the one your daddy drives, wouldn't you?
Let me tell you one thing. That's dead!
About as dead as you'll be if you don't rearrange your brain.
Catch my drift. Turn it up!


Also, I was totally forgetting (unrelated to the violent lyrics) that Prince mentions out Vanity in it:

People, let me turn it up. Which coat should I wear tonight?
If you think I'm vain, you're right.
Look out, somebody say "Vanity", Vanity!
"Jerk out", Jerk out!
"Ow!", Ow!


The song dates to December 1981 (at the purple house), and was written during the What Time Is It? sessions, so the Vanity reference makes sense. PrinceVault states that the track was significally reworked by The Time for Corporate World which morphed into Pandemonium. The basic tracks were kept, as well as Casey Terry's backing vocals.

PV also states what inspired Prince to write the song. "The track's lyrics were inspired by an incident on the Controversy Tour, when some of The Time's band members were removed from a flight ("jerked out") for causing a disturbance."


I guess I just never heard the full demo, assuming it was the same.

[Edited 3/27/17 9:07am]

Whoa eek You just blew my mind! blowup You just added another reason along with Vanity's speaking vocals on the Walk, recorded Janurary 14th 1982 that solidifies my beliefs that Prince and Vanity met before January 25 1982 at the AMA... Thanks for this info! [Edited 3/27/17 17:00pm]

this photo is from the Controversy period. His hair is still shorter like the 1981 Prince. by 1982 his hair was much longer and looking like the 1999 Prince

It seems he met Vanity in 1981. the Hookers was abandoned in the Fall of 1981(Oct/Nov) and he immediate met Vanity.

Image may contain: 1 person, standing and hat

The Hookers/Vanity 6, home studio, late 1981 – early 1982
Moral Majority #1
Vagina – also the name offered to Denise Matthews when she joined The Hookers in January 1982

Possessed: the Rise & Fall of Prince
Chapter Four: PAWNS

November 1981 - March 1982: Controversy tour of the United States

pg 49-50

Even as he struggled with the Time, Prince began planning another side project -an all-female group that would, again, perform his music and adopt a persona he created. Prior to the Controversy tour, three women were selected, rather, arbitrarily: girlfriend Susan Moonsie, wardrobe assistant Brenda Bennett (the wife of set designer Roy), and Jamie Shoop, an employee of Cavallo, Ruffalo & Fargnoli. Only Bennett had any singing experience. Prince planned to have the group, called the Hookers, wear lingerie onstage and sing sexually charged lyrics.

During the tour, plans shifted when Prince one evening at a club noticed an especially sexy woman; she was copper-skinned, sultry, and had an overall appearance very much like Prince's own. "It's been said that when they met, they both stopped in their tracks; looking at each other, it was like seeing themselves, but of the opposite sex," Alan Leeds. A scout was sent over to ask if she wanted to meet Prince, and she agreed.

Drive Me Wild

The tracks were intended for an album titled The Hookers, which was abandoned in Fall 1981, and which later evolved into Vanity 6. Vocal overdubs by Vanity and Brenda Bennett were added in Spring, 1982, when the band had evolved into Vanity 6.


The young woman, Denise Matthews, had show business aspirations and was thrilled when Prince said he wanted to construct a band around her. Prince was also wildly attracted to her, and they quickly became involved. Over the coming weeks, he explained to her the concept for the Hookers. She was taken aback, however, by the stage name he suggested for her: Vagina, albeit with the "I" pronounced as a long "E." She refused, but agreed to the name Vanity.

Work on the project began immediately after the Controversy tour. Since Prince wanted only three members, Jamie Shoop, who was more interested in learning the business of music than prancing about in her garters, bowed out, leaving a trio of Vanity, Moonsie, and Bennett. Prince dubbed the goup Vanity 6, a sly reference to the number of breasts in the ensemble.

MAKE UP

While specific recording dates are unknown, initial tracking took place in Summer 1981 at Prince's Kiowa Trail Home Studio in Chanhassen, MN, USA (during the same set of sessions that produced Make-Up, Drive Me Wild and I Need A Man). The tracks were intended for an album titled The Hookers, which was abandoned in Fall 1981, and which later evolved into Vanity 6. Vocal overdubs by Vanity and Brenda Bennett were added in Spring, 1982, when the band had evolved into Vanity 6.

A later track, planned for a projected second album by Vanity 6, was titled Wet Dream Cousin due to its similar musical feel to this track; the two are otherwise unrelated, however; see Wet Dream Cousin for details of that track.

The tour ran through the 1981 holiday season and, after a nearly month-long break, began again at the end of January in 1982. Brenda enjoyed her various jobs and was having a great time being out on the road with her husband, but she had begun to feel a little restless music-wise and wondered if and when she’d get back to making her own music again. And that’s when fate stepped in. Or, to be more precise, that’s when Prince stepped in!

The tour resumed after the holidays and it was about to become a pivotal moment in Brenda’s musical history and career. As wardrobe attendant and organizer to Prince, during this one afternoon, she was setting up his make-up station and getting his clothes ready for that night, the first show of the new year at a university in the Midwest. As she moved about the room, Prince came in, sat down at the make-up station and began to style his hair in preparation for the show. He put a cassette tape into his player on the table; it was a rough mix of the song “Stand Back” by Stevie Nicks. Stevie had contacted him sending him the tape for suggestions and his critique in the hopes of collaborating on a song together. Brenda began unconsciously to sing along as she was working not realizing that Prince had stopped what he was doing and was listening. Prince told her he didn’t know that she could sing and remarked that she could be the other “hooker.” When she asked what he meant by that, he explained that he was putting together a female group and that he thought she’d be just right for the project. Prince envisioned the group as a trio and he and Brenda discussed the idea with Roy who thought it was a great idea. Brenda accepted the offer.

Shortly after the “Controversy” tour wrapped up in April, Brenda found herself in Chanhassen, Minnesota to begin working on an album for Prince’s girl group project. By the time she’d arrived, the other two women, Susan Moonsie and Denise Matthews, were already there, Denise had been rechristened “Vanity,” and the group had been christened “Vanity 6.” Vanity had been pegged as the group’s principal vocalist and focal point, their frontwoman,

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Reply #9 posted 03/27/17 6:20pm

luvgirl

OldFriends4Sale said:



LuvGirl said:
Whoa eek You just blew my mind! blowup You just added another reason along with Vanity's speaking vocals on the Walk, recorded Janurary 14th 1982 that solidifies my beliefs that Prince and Vanity met before January 25 1982 at the AMA... Thanks for this weekend info! [Edited 3/27/17 17:00pm]



this photo is from the Controversy period. His hair is still shorter like the 1981 Prince. by 1982 his hair was much longer and looking like the 1999 Prince


It seems he met Vanity in 1981. the Hookers was abandoned in the Fall of 1981(Oct/Nov) and he immediate met Vanity.



Image may contain: 1 person, standing and hat



The Hookers/Vanity 6, home studio, late 1981 – early 1982
Moral Majority #1
Vagina – also the name offered to Denise Matthews when she joined The Hookers in January 1982



Possessed: the Rise & Fall of Prince
Chapter Four: PAWNS


November 1981 - March 1982: Controversy tour of the United States


pg 49-50



Even as he struggled with the Time, Prince began planning another side project -an all-female group that would, again, perform his music and adopt a persona he created. Prior to the Controversy tour, three women were selected, rather, arbitrarily: girlfriend Susan Moonsie, wardrobe assistant Brenda Bennett (the wife of set designer Roy), and Jamie Shoop, an employee of Cavallo, Ruffalo & Fargnoli. Only Bennett had any singing experience. Prince planned to have the group, called the Hookers, wear lingerie onstage and sing sexually charged lyrics.

During the tour, plans shifted when Prince one evening at a club noticed an especially sexy woman; she was copper-skinned, sultry, and had an overall appearance very much like Prince's own. "It's been said that when they met, they both stopped in their tracks; looking at each other, it was like seeing themselves, but of the opposite sex," Alan Leeds. A scout was sent over to ask if she wanted to meet Prince, and she agreed.



Drive Me Wild


The tracks were intended for an album titled The Hookers, which was abandoned in Fall 1981, and which later evolved into Vanity 6. Vocal overdubs by Vanity and Brenda Bennett were added in Spring, 1982, when the band had evolved into Vanity 6.



The young woman, Denise Matthews, had show business aspirations and was thrilled when Prince said he wanted to construct a band around her. Prince was also wildly attracted to her, and they quickly became involved. Over the coming weeks, he explained to her the concept for the Hookers. She was taken aback, however, by the stage name he suggested for her: Vagina, albeit with the "I" pronounced as a long "E." She refused, but agreed to the name Vanity.

Work on the project began immediately after the Controversy tour. Since Prince wanted only three members, Jamie Shoop, who was more interested in learning the business of music than prancing about in her garters, bowed out, leaving a trio of Vanity, Moonsie, and Bennett. Prince dubbed the goup Vanity 6, a sly reference to the number of breasts in the ensemble.



MAKE UP


While specific recording dates are unknown, initial tracking took place in Summer 1981 at Prince's Kiowa Trail Home Studio in Chanhassen, MN, USA (during the same set of sessions that produced Make-Up, Drive Me Wild and I Need A Man). The tracks were intended for an album titled The Hookers, which was abandoned in Fall 1981, and which later evolved into Vanity 6. Vocal overdubs by Vanity and Brenda Bennett were added in Spring, 1982, when the band had evolved into Vanity 6.


A later track, planned for a projected second album by Vanity 6, was titled Wet Dream Cousin due to its similar musical feel to this track; the two are otherwise unrelated, however; see Wet Dream Cousin for details of that track.





The tour ran through the 1981 holiday season and, after a nearly month-long break, began again at the end of January in 1982. Brenda enjoyed her various jobs and was having a great time being out on the road with her husband, but she had begun to feel a little restless music-wise and wondered if and when she’d get back to making her own music again. And that’s when fate stepped in. Or, to be more precise, that’s when Prince stepped in!



The tour resumed after the holidays and it was about to become a pivotal moment in Brenda’s musical history and career. As wardrobe attendant and organizer to Prince, during this one afternoon, she was setting up his make-up station and getting his clothes ready for that night, the first show of the new year at a university in the Midwest. As she moved about the room, Prince came in, sat down at the make-up station and began to style his hair in preparation for the show. He put a cassette tape into his player on the table; it was a rough mix of the song “Stand Back” by Stevie Nicks. Stevie had contacted him sending him the tape for suggestions and his critique in the hopes of collaborating on a song together. Brenda began unconsciously to sing along as she was working not realizing that Prince had stopped what he was doing and was listening. Prince told her he didn’t know that she could sing and remarked that she could be the other “hooker.” When she asked what he meant by that, he explained that he was putting together a female group and that he thought she’d be just right for the project. Prince envisioned the group as a trio and he and Brenda discussed the idea with Roy who thought it was a great idea. Brenda accepted the offer.


Shortly after the “Controversy” tour wrapped up in April, Brenda found herself in Chanhassen, Minnesota to begin working on an album for Prince’s girl group project. By the time she’d arrived, the other two women, Susan Moonsie and Denise Matthews, were already there, Denise had been rechristened “Vanity,” and the group had been christened “Vanity 6.” Vanity had been pegged as the group’s principal vocalist and focal point, their frontwoman,




Yes! Good observation on that pic being from the Controversy era. Didn't even put two and two together on that one... Thank you as well.
[Edited 3/27/17 18:26pm]
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Reply #10 posted 03/28/17 2:10am

NorthC

1725topp said:

So, does this mean that as early as 1981 Prince was already thinking about the "flaw" in the whole multicultural utopian society that he was building with his own persona? This is not a rhetorical question. I'm just wondering for all the folks who didn't like Prince's more Afrocentric work later in his career, how this would have struck or impacted them had this type of lyric that specifically addresses an African-American concern about racism been released at the apex of his popularity. These lyrics are definitely discussing the African-American concern of driving while black (DWB) along with being inspired by the airplane incident. And, this would have been seven years before NWA’s Straight Otta Compton.



I see it more as an SM fantasy. It reminds me more of the rape scene in Extraloveable or Superfunkycalifragisexi which also talks about tying someone to a chair. As a comment about racism, it's hard to take this seriously.
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Reply #11 posted 03/28/17 6:13am

NouveauDance

avatar

Adorecream said:

2. They decided 1 Prince track was enough, and they had 100MPH on it already. Initially Mazarati were not happy with Prince's "interference"

That seems unlikely as the last two tracks also have Prince's input, as well as Kiss, all in all at one time that could've meant half the LP would've had Prince's input.

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Reply #12 posted 03/28/17 7:44am

blizzybiz

1725topp said:

So, does this mean that as early as 1981 Prince was already thinking about the "flaw" in the whole multicultural utopian society that he was building with his own persona? This is not a rhetorical question. I'm just wondering for all the folks who didn't like Prince's more Afrocentric work later in his career, how this would have struck or impacted them had this type of lyric that specifically addresses an African-American concern about racism been released at the apex of his popularity. These lyrics are definitely discussing the African-American concern of driving while black (DWB) along with being inspired by the airplane incident. And, this would have been seven years before NWA’s Straight Otta Compton.

yes indeed. I find it interesting that he was doing the whole uptopian thing, he was writing about this on the side.

I said "How come people in your neighborhood, don't like it when a brother's rich?
Ain't my blood the same color as yours? Answer that question, bitch!"

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Reply #13 posted 03/28/17 7:46am

blizzybiz

NorthC said:

1725topp said:

So, does this mean that as early as 1981 Prince was already thinking about the "flaw" in the whole multicultural utopian society that he was building with his own persona? This is not a rhetorical question. I'm just wondering for all the folks who didn't like Prince's more Afrocentric work later in his career, how this would have struck or impacted them had this type of lyric that specifically addresses an African-American concern about racism been released at the apex of his popularity. These lyrics are definitely discussing the African-American concern of driving while black (DWB) along with being inspired by the airplane incident. And, this would have been seven years before NWA’s Straight Otta Compton.

I see it more as an SM fantasy. It reminds me more of the rape scene in Extraloveable or Superfunkycalifragisexi which also talks about tying someone to a chair. As a comment about racism, it's hard to take this seriously.

how can you see the S&M aspect, but not the very apparent raciial aspect? I don't think he's every been as clear about it as he in in these few lines.

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Reply #14 posted 03/28/17 8:18am

laurarichardso
n

SomeSoldier said:

Am I right to think that The Time also rejected if for Ice Cream Castles (or even What Time Is It, I can't remember)?

No, Jesse Johnson said Ice Cream Castle came from something he and Morris wrote called young and ignorant. Prince changed the music around to come up with Ice Cream Castle.
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Reply #15 posted 03/28/17 8:22am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

NouveauDance said:

Adorecream said:

2. They decided 1 Prince track was enough, and they had 100MPH on it already. Initially Mazarati were not happy with Prince's "interference"

That seems unlikely as the last two tracks also have Prince's input, as well as Kiss, all in all at one time that could've meant half the LP would've had Prince's input.


I'd tend to agree on some level. Why would you not want a Prince song on your album, and a record contract by arguably the biggest rock star on the planet at that point? Prince doles out tracks to folks left and right, so for him to offer up a couple of tracks them is pretty standard fare.

For those that don't know, the lyrics to "Strawberry Lover" and "I Guess It's All Over" were rewritten by Prince, both having had totally different titles and lyrics before that. So grouped with "Kiss", "100 MPH", and "Jerk Out", that's five songs Prince had a hand in and offered to help the band get a good first album. How they were not happy with that is beyond me.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #16 posted 03/28/17 8:23am

NorthC

I didn't say I don't see the racial aspect, but it comes second to the SM aspect. It's really wierd. He ties a woman up because she's white (?) and then says their blood is the same colour (just like in Race), which suggests that skin colour doesn't matter... This is Prince acting out some fantasies and there's obviously some frustration underneath... I'm just saying that just like the rape scene in Extraloveable, we shouldn't take this too seriously. But I can understand that Mazarati didn't want to sing it!
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Reply #17 posted 03/28/17 8:39am

OldFriends4Sal
e

blizzybiz said:

NorthC said:

1725topp said: I see it more as an SM fantasy. It reminds me more of the rape scene in Extraloveable or Superfunkycalifragisexi which also talks about tying someone to a chair. As a comment about racism, it's hard to take this seriously.

how can you see the S&M aspect, but not the very apparent raciial aspect? I don't think he's every been as clear about it as he in in these few lines.

it feels more of a class issue underlying issue.

it was on the side though as u said, as in 'side project'
Jerk Out is 4 the Time(originally) then Mazarati, then back to the Time
I don't understand Mazarati's 'vision' as of yet. What was the direction/theme...
But if we look at this song in the context of the Time; downtown guys/gigolos trying to make it uptown, what r u doing after high school, onedayimgonnabesomebody, expressing classism and racial issues fits

.

I think the song Ice Creams Castles is the most direct Utopiac song from the Times first 3 albums

the others fit within Prince concept for his own albums. A different scene. the music just fits within Prince Uptown Erotic City Paisley Park utopia

.

We are young, we are free on earth together
Let's fall in love
You are fine, you are white, I am of color
Let's fall in love

Ice cream castles in the summertime

We are young, we are free let's come together
Before the end

We're all ice cream castles in the sun
Ice cream castles when we fall
Ice cream castles in the summertime, summertime

White girls, black girls, orientals, jamaican

.

But Jerk Out makes sense in that the Prince Utopia is different from the Time 'trying to make it uptown'

the song was intended originally for the Time. And those types of descriptors were/are a part of that vision. Prince's utopiac vision continued till his end. Especially since later he really began defining it with his mesh of Jehovah's Witness paradise.
3121
Rich Friends.

.

As Sheila E's Yellow deals with a 'higher class' and being 'trophy' type of woman

.

but the description is weird in Jerk Out.

he says: It just pisses you off to see me drivin' that fancy car, don't it?

then contradicts it by saying

Bet you'd rather see me drivin' one of those ester grate ones.
Like the one your daddy drives, wouldn't you?

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Reply #18 posted 03/28/17 8:47am

TrivialPursuit

avatar

NorthC said:

I didn't say I don't see the racial aspect, but it comes second to the SM aspect. It's really wierd. He ties a woman up because she's white (?) and then says their blood is the same colour (just like in Race), which suggests that skin colour doesn't matter... This is Prince acting out some fantasies and there's obviously some frustration underneath... I'm just saying that just like the rape scene in Extraloveable, we shouldn't take this too seriously. But I can understand that Mazarati didn't want to sing it!


I think it's her being the racist, not him. He's trying to show her that they're the same, and tying her up is an act of control so she listens to him.

I don't want folks to think I was overstating the line or whatever. My point was that I always assumed The Time's version was the same as Mazarati's demo, until I finally went and read the lyrics the other day and realized "oh wow, this is why they rejected it".

I'd agree that there's some frustration at social issues and racism in the world that he's expressing to that girl. It's definitely not sexual. Because in most Prince songs, he's submissive to the woman, leaving her in control of him and his body. He's rarely, if ever, the aggressor in the bedroom (in songs). It's also interesting, as you pointed out, that sentiments in a 1995 song are there in 1981. I don't know what the racial divide was in Minneapolis in the 60s or 70s, being a northern state and all, but Prince certainly was paying attention to things going on.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #19 posted 03/28/17 9:55pm

1725topp

blizzybiz said:

NorthC said:

1725topp said: I see it more as an SM fantasy. It reminds me more of the rape scene in Extraloveable or Superfunkycalifragisexi which also talks about tying someone to a chair. As a comment about racism, it's hard to take this seriously.

how can you see the S&M aspect, but not the very apparent raciial aspect? I don't think he's every been as clear about it as he in in these few lines.

*

NorthC Said: I didn't say I don't see the racial aspect, but it comes second to the SM aspect. It's really wierd. He ties a woman up because she's white (?) and then says their blood is the same colour (just like in Race), which suggests that skin colour doesn't matter... This is Prince acting out some fantasies and there's obviously some frustration underneath... I'm just saying that just like the rape scene in Extraloveable, we shouldn't take this too seriously. But I can understand that Mazarati didn't want to sing it!

*

A couple things to remember is that in America sex and race are intersectors for racial oppression. As James Baldwin stated, “Its color is its size.” That's why, with most lynchings that occurred in America, black males were castrated prior to the actual lynching as a literal and figurative way to protect whiteness by protecting white women. (Emmett Till anyone?) And, as late as 2016, the white supremacist, Dylann Roof, was heard yelling “This is for sleeping with our women” as he murdered African Americans in a South Carolina church. As such, this deleted verse is important because prior to this moment in Prince’s career, with "Ice Cream Castles" being written three years later, Prince had never specifically identified the race of the woman in a song, iirc. As such, it's important that he identifies her as "white" as it is clearly important to the narrative and message of the song. Also, you are misreading or misinterpreting what he means when he says " Ain't my blood the same color as yours?" because his point is to juxtapose that idea to the idea that her people/her daddy and his type can't see beyond his skin color. Thus, it’s more of a rhetorical question designed to highlight the racism/hypocrisy of her father’s and other white people’s racism. So, again, the fact that he specifically mentions the race of the woman and then connects that to a major issue/concern in the African-American community, driving while black (DWB), which, interestingly, is still a major issue/concern in the African-American community, provides enough weight/evidence that this verse is a clear example of Prince discussing a specific African-American concern, i. e. racism. Thus, in my previous post I was just wondering how his white fans would have responded to this verse/message this early in his career when, clearly, many of his white fans had issue with him embracing more Afro-centric issues later in his career.

*

Finally, the notion that someone else raised that the verse/message is about "class" and not "race" is a spin narrative that has always been used in America to cloud the issue for African-Americans because the American class structure is rooted in and founded upon race being the original and defining aspect of class. For instance, that's why the "one drop rule" was implemented, to assign African Americans as the lower class. Secondly, class construct in America has always been based on ideological racial definitions because there are people in America who are considered "white" today who were not considered white seventy years ago. Prior to the mass exodus of African-Americans from the South to the North, the so-called "ghettos" were populated with Jews, Irish, Italian, and Polish citizens, and they were not considered white, based on the documented evidence that white or Anglo-Saxons or White Anglos Saxon Protestants (WASPS) were the only people considered white in America at that time because they would often post signs that said "No Jews, Irish, Italian, or Polish allowed." It was only after Northern cities saw the population of African-Americans double, due, again, to the mass migration of African Americans from the South to the North, that those original signs were changed to "No Blacks Allowed," as Irish, Italian, and Polish citizens were absorbed into whiteness. Jews were not absorbed into American whiteness because they—as a majority—would not renounce their religion and become Christian. So, yes, race and class intersect in America, but race, based on historical evidence, was the original defining aspect of class in America to ensure that African Americans were the permanent underclass to keep them as free and, then later, cheap labor. So, to assert that the verse is about “class” and not “race” ignores the documented history of how race defines class in America and also seeks to deny or ignore that Prince was an African American who was, earlier than many thought, concerned about issues directly impacting African Americans.

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Reply #20 posted 03/29/17 6:37am

OldFriends4Sal
e

TrivialPursuit said:

So we know the story of Mazarati only taking "100 MPH" for their debut album, and saying "Jerk Out" had some violent or racist lyrics they didn't want to put out there. When I listen to the song, I could never figure out what the lyrics were that they objected to. What was that bad?

Then yesterday I ran across someone talked about their demo version Prince had them record, which differs from The Time's Pandemonium version. The third verse is really different:

I took her to my crib and I tied her up. I figured that's what she liked.
Maybe I was wrong but what the hell, it didn't matter to me. She was white.
I said "How come people in your neighborhood, don't like it when a brother's rich?
Ain't my blood the same color as yours? Answer that question, bitch!"

It just pisses you off to see me drivin' that fancy car, don't it?
Bet you'd rather see me drivin' one of those ester grate ones.
Like the one your daddy drives, wouldn't you?
Let me tell you one thing. That's dead!
About as dead as you'll be if you don't rearrange your brain.
Catch my drift. Turn it up!


Also, I was totally forgetting (unrelated to the violent lyrics) that Prince mentions out Vanity in it:

People, let me turn it up. Which coat should I wear tonight?
If you think I'm vain, you're right.
Look out, somebody say "Vanity", Vanity!
"Jerk out", Jerk out!
"Ow!", Ow!


The song dates to December 1981 (at the purple house), and was written during the What Time Is It? sessions, so the Vanity reference makes sense. PrinceVault states that the track was significally reworked by The Time for Corporate World which morphed into Pandemonium. The basic tracks were kept, as well as Casey Terry's backing vocals.

PV also states what inspired Prince to write the song. "The track's lyrics were inspired by an incident on the Controversy Tour, when some of The Time's band members were removed from a flight ("jerked out") for causing a disturbance."


I guess I just never heard the full demo, assuming it was the same.

[Edited 3/27/17 9:07am]

was the 'vanity' reference about Vanity(the woman) or because of him talking about himself and what he was wearing and driving and how much cash he had... about 'vanity'.

As he said, if you think I'm VAIN you're right, somebody say vanity

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Reply #21 posted 03/29/17 9:51am

TrivialPursuit

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OldFriends4Sale said:

was the 'vanity' reference about Vanity(the woman) or because of him talking about himself and what he was wearing and driving and how much cash he had... about 'vanity'.

As he said, if you think I'm VAIN you're right, somebody say vanity


I mean, it could be either. It's terribly convenient if it's about Vanity.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #22 posted 03/29/17 6:54pm

luvgirl


OldFriends4Sale said:



was the 'vanity' reference about Vanity(the woman) or because of him talking about himself and what he was wearing and driving and how much cash he had... about 'vanity'.


As he said, if you think I'm VAIN you're right, somebody say vanity





TrivialPursuit
p>
I mean, it could be either. It's terribly convenient if it's about Vanity.



Yes, I did wonder if he was talking about being vain as well, but felt more like it was a clever coincidence...
[Edited 3/29/17 19:01pm]
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