paisleypearl said:

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

Really? And no one on this site ever complained about him not being black enough? Please it's so silly, which is something Prince wasn't. He put people he thought were the best in his bands. Whether they were light or dark skinned or white it shouldn't matter. What matters is are they good musicians/artists and they were. [Edited 3/3/17 5:26am]

You are missing the point. We all know color did not matter to Prince because that is what he put out to the public and I believe he was sincere about this. I do think that a lot of fans see him as some person that transcended race which is ludicrous.

prince went through changes like anyone, in the early days, he in fact did seem to at least "run far and fast from images of blackness" -nelson george but he made an about face just like the other great artists did before him and came back home with a vengeance. Several people from his own community would say "he has to come back home" and Prince must have been listening from somewhere inspite of the aloof persona because that's what he did. As far as his taste in women? Ya, he tended to like light skinned women generally, Latinas at least the ones we know about but you know what? I'm sure he spent some time in private with all kinds, asians, dark skinned women, white women, he loved women period. Any racial neurosis in the choosing exotic mulatto like women? I don't know, maybe, or maybe that's just what he liked.

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

You are missing the point. We all know color did not matter to Prince because that is what he put out to the public and I believe he was sincere about this. I do think that a lot of fans see him as some person that transcended race which is ludicrous.

A lot of fans just care about the music and not skin color. Anyway my initial point was the idea that Prince actively avoided working with or featuring dark skinned band mates/muses etc. is garbage.

sure, and that's what's most important but lots of fans here on this site obviously did not like it when he spoke out on racial issues, had opinions on racial issues and made songs about them. I've mentioned that his own bandmates didn't like it when he started to go black, matt fink said, almost verbatim what one of Jimi's buddies said when jimi started the Band Of Gypsies "it went in a wierd way, he started hanging out with all these black guys". Well, that may seem wierd to him but maybe Jimi, being black didn't see it as all that wierd. People are self-centered, just human nature and most people are incapabe of seeing things from other perspectives, it's almost infantile.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

I don't think his attraction to women had anything to do with race, I think he was attracted to women that looked like him. As his looked changed so did the look of his ladies

most of the women were mixed, his two wives were, manuela was egyptian/italian, and mayte was puerto rican, both no doubt had african dna. His biggest mistake in my opinion, the women were just shallow, maybe he liked that too, I don't just mean superficial, i mean not too bright for the most part. Some men like that, lots of men like younger women because they are malleable and naive too but it's too hard to make things workout with any one these days and women that young are bound to think different in a few years. Then there are the goldiggers and women who wouldn't touch someone with a ten foot pole unless there's money involved. Terry Lewis said something in a recent interveiw, that there really is no such thing as unconditional agape love in this world. I think we get close when it comes to parent child relationships but that's about it.

[Edited 3/3/17 15:53pm]

laurarichardson said:

ForceofNature said:

My point exactly

--Well then every women who ever said that sleapt with him is telling a lie. Everyone who had an encounter with him is telling lies.

Or rather, some can be true and some can be lies but we are just random fans being told random info, without a proper way to vet none of this should be taken as fact - just dumb gossip

PeteSilas said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

I don't think his attraction to women had anything to do with race, I think he was attracted to women that looked like him. As his looked changed so did the look of his ladies

most of the women were mixed, his two wives were, manuela was egyptian/italian, and mayte was puerto rican, both no doubt had african dna. His biggest mistake in my opinion, the women were just shallow, maybe he liked that too, I don't just mean superficial, i mean not too bright for the most part. Some men like that, lots of men like younger women because they are malleable and naive too but it's too hard to make things workout with any one these days and women that young are bound to think different in a few years. Then there are the goldiggers and women who wouldn't touch someone with a ten foot pole unless there's money involved. Terry Lewis said something in a recent interveiw, that there really is no such thing as unconditional agape love in this world. I think we get close when it comes to parent child relationships but that's about it.

[Edited 3/3/17 15:53pm]

Well said Pete. He wanted to be with young and naive women. In the end I keep thinking that this was his biggest flaw and still think some young and stupid women had something to do with his demise.

ForceofNature said:

laurarichardson said:

ForceofNature said: --Well then every women who ever said that sleapt with him is telling a lie. Everyone who had an encounter with him is telling lies.

Or rather, some can be true and some can be lies but we are just random fans being told random info, without a proper way to vet none of this should be taken as fact - just dumb gossip

Just say it is all dumb gossip because according to people on this board even people who knew Prince the whole of their lives are telling tall tales.

"ill only do it for a worthy cause...viginity or menopause"

What happened to the Mayte book thread? I didn't think there was anything overly negative or trollish on it. That sure disappeared quick!

purplethunder3121 said:

What happened to the Mayte book thread? I didn't think there was anything overly negative or trollish on it. That sure disappeared quick!

You know why it disappeared.

laurarichardson said:

ForceofNature said:

Or rather, some can be true and some can be lies but we are just random fans being told random info, without a proper way to vet none of this should be taken as fact - just dumb gossip

Just say it is all dumb gossip because according to people on this board even people who knew Prince the whole of their lives are telling tall tales.

purplethunder3121 said:

What happened to the Mayte book thread? I didn't think there was anything overly negative or trollish on it. That sure disappeared quick!

It was one of the more interesting ones on the org. Guess someone didnt like their opinion being questioned? Maybe it will return once read.

[Edited 3/5/17 15:01pm]

That might be oversimplifying a bit. I know--I overanalyse.

I think Prince just wanted to be with women period. The problem is that only young and naive women could live his lifestyle. He could have had great relationships with women like Tamron Hall if it weren't for that fact that her own ambitions and worldliness would never fit in his Paisley Park world of isolation and monk-like devotion to music (monk-like if monks fornicated alot lol).. I do think P was a feminist in his own way but I also think strong women (as much as I think he admired them and even enjoyed working with them--see his female musicians who were married and not 'proteges') would either move on after they realized the flaws of his lifestyle or would force him to work less, leave behind enablers or take better care of himself physically if they were married to him.. They would insist he put aside his career occasionally so they could spend time on their own. This is not something he was capable of. Mayte is not just a dumb bimbo. She was a charming and seemed to have faith in his choices. What human being wouldn't want that kind of support.

As for the pretty women he hired later in life, I wouldn't assume they are stupid. But they were pretty and hungr/ambitious with no other committments. IN his mind, he probably got the best of both worlds--pretty women who could commit to his universe and were hungry enough to work the hours and committed to work within the confines of Paisley. I don't think he fucked all of them or even wanted to. I think he had a little more dignity than that. I think he was lonely and substituted mentorship and flirtation with pretty employees for romantic relationships. I think it was less about gender politics and more about being a lonely older man who had become jaded about the potential for finding true long-term love. Was his ego stoked by having pretty women around? To some extent, definitely--but less so when he was older. I think the women weren't the issue necessarily. i think the father figures in his life might have been much more destructive (see Graham, George Benson, his real father and their religious fanaticism) and whoever gave him the damn drugs (male or female).

laurarichardson said:

PeteSilas said:

most of the women were mixed, his two wives were, manuela was egyptian/italian, and mayte was puerto rican, both no doubt had african dna. His biggest mistake in my opinion, the women were just shallow, maybe he liked that too, I don't just mean superficial, i mean not too bright for the most part. Some men like that, lots of men like younger women because they are malleable and naive too but it's too hard to make things workout with any one these days and women that young are bound to think different in a few years. Then there are the goldiggers and women who wouldn't touch someone with a ten foot pole unless there's money involved. Terry Lewis said something in a recent interveiw, that there really is no such thing as unconditional agape love in this world. I think we get close when it comes to parent child relationships but that's about it.

[Edited 3/3/17 15:53pm]

Well said Pete. He wanted to be with young and naive women. In the end I keep thinking that this was his biggest flaw and still think some young and stupid women had something to do with his demise.

purplerabbithole said:

That might be oversimplifying a bit. I know--I overanalyse.

I think Prince just wanted to be with women period. The problem is that only young and naive women could live his lifestyle. He could have had great relationships with women like Tamron Hall if it weren't for that fact that her own ambitions and worldliness would never fit in his Paisley Park world of isolation and monk-like devotion to music (monk-like if monks fornicated alot lol).. I do think P was a feminist in his own way but I also think strong women (as much as I think he admired them and even enjoyed working with them--see his female musicians who were married and not 'proteges') would either move on after they realized the flaws of his lifestyle or would force him to work less, leave behind enablers or take better care of himself physically if they were married to him.. They would insist he put aside his career occasionally so they could spend time on their own. This is not something he was capable of. Mayte is not just a dumb bimbo. She was a charming and seemed to have faith in his choices. What human being wouldn't want that kind of support.

As for the pretty women he hired later in life, I wouldn't assume they are stupid. But they were pretty and hungr/ambitious with no other committments. IN his mind, he probably got the best of both worlds--pretty women who could commit to his universe and were hungry enough to work the hours and committed to work within the confines of Paisley. I don't think he fucked all of them or even wanted to. I think he had a little more dignity than that. I think he was lonely and substituted mentorship and flirtation with pretty employees for romantic relationships. I think it was less about gender politics and more about being a lonely older man who had become jaded about the potential for finding true long-term love. Was his ego stoked by having pretty women around? To some extent, definitely--but less so when he was older. I think the women weren't the issue necessarily. i think the father figures in his life might have been much more destructive (see Graham, George Benson, his real father and their religious fanaticism) and whoever gave him the damn drugs (male or female).

laurarichardson said:

Well said Pete. He wanted to be with young and naive women. In the end I keep thinking that this was his biggest flaw and still think some young and stupid women had something to do with his demise.

I don't know mayte but she certainly did not seem to be too bright or independent in the interviews I've seen. She seems very nice but again, i don't know her. From what I hear about Tamron, their friendship sounds like it was something that was more based on adult/real world concerns like the state of society etc.., rather than music or stardom. I still think men tend to like young women around them, it's not just prince, it happens in the business world and in college too. I was once in a grad program where the guy who ran it either had women in it who wouldn't challenge him or men who could do something for him via nepotism, he had no, absolutely no use for a big mouth like me, that's just the world we live in. Didn't know that about George Benson, I never heard of him having any relationship with Prince, of course I realize he was a Jehovah's witness too and I do not know if Larry Grahams relationship was bad, all bad or all good for him. He was probably better for him than the folks he had running around in the 90's if what we here from Prince himself is true.

I am no lesbian. BUt even straight women appreciate the artistry of a beautiful woman. Its human nature. Hell, I think even gay men appreciate female beauty (thus why some of them do drag.)

Prince was only human.

But to dismiss the young ladies he had relationships with or employed as just completely shallow is unfair to all parties involved. I think its complicated. That being said, Mayte's not the brightest girl in the world (just reading her facebook's lack of grammar indicates that) but she is a charming woman with a spunky creative side to her. I think she is more creative and talented than she gets credit for sometimes. She's got an "It" factor about her and seemed open to creative expression and adventure.

Look at young women like Lala Escarzega or Andy Allo. (Both women's facebook pages indicate intelligence and creativity). These girls are not stupid. Manuela is college educated. Many of Prince's harem (for lack of a better word) are kind of bright. Naive maybe but not brainless. Did they use Prince? Yep. I think so. But people can have more than one thought in their head at the same time. They can be enchanted by Prince and still accept and crave his help. Prince was the whole package in a way...sexy, successful, supportive, funny, creative, exciting. But he was also a mixed bag if you know what i mean. But like you said, he has never been accused of sexual harassment so maybe the relationships he had were more mutual than people tend to believe.

An older, more independent woman (no matter how attrached they might have been to prince) would be out of there the moment they realized that P would be spending 20 hours a day in the studio. Nevermind the other women, possible overuse of pain pill dating back years, and the religious conversion. But Prince did still support the more independent women he knew (later in life) and seemed to understand their need to spread their wings. Hell, he may have helped a few of his 'harem' to do so by letting them go.

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

That might be oversimplifying a bit. I know--I overanalyse.

I think Prince just wanted to be with women period. The problem is that only young and naive women could live his lifestyle. He could have had great relationships with women like Tamron Hall if it weren't for that fact that her own ambitions and worldliness would never fit in his Paisley Park world of isolation and monk-like devotion to music (monk-like if monks fornicated alot lol).. I do think P was a feminist in his own way but I also think strong women (as much as I think he admired them and even enjoyed working with them--see his female musicians who were married and not 'proteges') would either move on after they realized the flaws of his lifestyle or would force him to work less, leave behind enablers or take better care of himself physically if they were married to him.. They would insist he put aside his career occasionally so they could spend time on their own. This is not something he was capable of. Mayte is not just a dumb bimbo. She was a charming and seemed to have faith in his choices. What human being wouldn't want that kind of support.

As for the pretty women he hired later in life, I wouldn't assume they are stupid. But they were pretty and hungr/ambitious with no other committments. IN his mind, he probably got the best of both worlds--pretty women who could commit to his universe and were hungry enough to work the hours and committed to work within the confines of Paisley. I don't think he fucked all of them or even wanted to. I think he had a little more dignity than that. I think he was lonely and substituted mentorship and flirtation with pretty employees for romantic relationships. I think it was less about gender politics and more about being a lonely older man who had become jaded about the potential for finding true long-term love. Was his ego stoked by having pretty women around? To some extent, definitely--but less so when he was older. I think the women weren't the issue necessarily. i think the father figures in his life might have been much more destructive (see Graham, George Benson, his real father and their religious fanaticism) and whoever gave him the damn drugs (male or female).

I don't know mayte but she certainly did not seem to be too bright or independent in the interviews I've seen. She seems very nice but again, i don't know her. From what I hear about Tamron, their friendship sounds like it was something that was more based on adult/real world concerns like the state of society etc.., rather than music or stardom. I still think men tend to like young women around them, it's not just prince, it happens in the business world and in college too. I was once in a grad program where the guy who ran it either had women in it who wouldn't challenge him or men who could do something for him via nepotism, he had no, absolutely no use for a big mouth like me, that's just the world we live in. Didn't know that about George Benson, I never heard of him having any relationship with Prince, of course I realize he was a Jehovah's witness too and I do not know if Larry Grahams relationship was bad, all bad or all good for him. He was probably better for him than the folks he had running around in the 90's if what we here from Prince himself is true.

[Edited 3/5/17 16:11pm]

when i say shallow or superficial I mean several possible things, either naive, greedy, calculating. Mayte, I'm sorry, just not bright, not bright at all. I've seen the type, and some of them are wonderful, sweet people, it's ironic but i've seen some of the most beautiful women I've known not be too bright but it's wierd how sweet they are. They seem like easy prey for a bastard to me. Now, manuela, she never gave interviews that I know of and we don't know that much about her but she sounds like a real oppurtunist/goldigger doesnt she? I know Vanity was the ultimate Prince woman for most here but she really really does not seem too smart, very sweet though, the kind that makes me feel bad calling her dumb. None of us really know what things were like in Princeworld, we can only guess. I've heard that Mayte had lied to him about something major, never found out what it was but that's just what I heard. men and women often cause their own problems by not knowing how the fuck to choose a mate or who to let in or not let in their lives. What can we do? Nothing, most people are attracted to things that are imprinted in their minds, it's not the person on the outside, they could get rid of them and they''d just find another just like them.

purplerabbithole said:

I am no lesbian. BUt even straight women appreciate the artistry of a beautiful woman. Its human nature. Hell, I think even gay men appreciate female beauty (thus why some of them do drag.)

Prince was only human.

But to dismiss the young ladies he had relationships with or employed as just completely shallow is unfair to all parties involved. I think its complicated. That being said, Mayte's not the brightest girl in the world (just reading her facebook's lack of grammar indicates that) but she is a charming woman with a spunky creative side to her. I think she is more creative and talented than she gets credit for sometimes. She's got an "It" factor about her and seemed open to creative expression and adventure.

Look at young women like Lala Escarzega or Andy Allo. (Both women's facebook pages indicate intelligence and creativity). These girls are not stupid. Manuela is college educated. Many of Prince's harem (for lack of a better word) are kind of bright. Naive maybe but not brainless. Did they use Prince? Yep. I think so. But people can have more than one thought in their head at the same time. They can be enchanted by Prince and still accept and crave his help. Prince was the whole package in a way...sexy, successful, supportive, funny, creative, exciting. But he was also a mixed bag if you know what i mean. But like you said, he has never been accused of sexual harassment so maybe the relationships he had were more mutual than people tend to believe.

An older, more independent woman (no matter how attrached they might have been to prince) would be out of there the moment they realized that P would be spending 20 hours a day in the studio. Nevermind the other women, possible overuse of pain pill dating back years, and the religious conversion. But Prince did still support the more independent women he knew (later in life) and seemed to understand their need to spread their wings. Hell, he may have helped a few of his 'harem' to do so by letting them go.

PeteSilas said:

I don't know mayte but she certainly did not seem to be too bright or independent in the interviews I've seen. She seems very nice but again, i don't know her. From what I hear about Tamron, their friendship sounds like it was something that was more based on adult/real world concerns like the state of society etc.., rather than music or stardom. I still think men tend to like young women around them, it's not just prince, it happens in the business world and in college too. I was once in a grad program where the guy who ran it either had women in it who wouldn't challenge him or men who could do something for him via nepotism, he had no, absolutely no use for a big mouth like me, that's just the world we live in. Didn't know that about George Benson, I never heard of him having any relationship with Prince, of course I realize he was a Jehovah's witness too and I do not know if Larry Grahams relationship was bad, all bad or all good for him. He was probably better for him than the folks he had running around in the 90's if what we here from Prince himself is true.

[Edited 3/5/17 16:11pm]

someone has got to love the dumb women too. LOL. Prince was smart but even he wasn't college educated. His education was a bit rough around the edges.

I give you Mayte, Vanity, and of course Carmen. But what about Lisa coleman when he first dated her? or Nona Gaye or Bria Valente (who apparently could holdher own intellectually according to articles i read--despite her JW conversion) or Andy or Lala? I don't know about Susannah in terms of education. Tamar and Judith may or may not have had physical/romantic relationships with P...but they probably have a degree of intelligence. And of course, his early pre-Vanity relationships can't be discounted either. Hell, even his sexual relationship with Basinger. Kim's a bit nuts but she is not stupid.

P's taste in women is all over the place. the only thing they have in common is that they were able to at least briefly fit into his Paisley world and they were young/pretty. (Bria was one of the older ones I believe).

PeteSilas said:

when i say shallow or superficial I mean several possible things, either naive, greedy, calculating. Mayte, I'm sorry, just not bright, not bright at all. I've seen the type, and some of them are wonderful, sweet people, it's ironic but i've seen some of the most beautiful women I've known not be too bright but it's wierd how sweet they are. They seem like easy prey for a bastard to me. Now, manuela, she never gave interviews that I know of and we don't know that much about her but she sounds like a real oppurtunist/goldigger doesnt she? I know Vanity was the ultimate Prince woman for most here but she really really does not seem too smart, very sweet though, the kind that makes me feel bad calling her dumb. None of us really know what things were like in Princeworld, we can only guess. I've heard that Mayte had lied to him about something major, never found out what it was but that's just what I heard. men and women often cause their own problems by not knowing how the fuck to choose a mate or who to let in or not let in their lives. What can we do? Nothing, most people are attracted to things that are imprinted in their minds, it's not the person on the outside, they could get rid of them and they''d just find another just like them.

purplerabbithole said:

I am no lesbian. BUt even straight women appreciate the artistry of a beautiful woman. Its human nature. Hell, I think even gay men appreciate female beauty (thus why some of them do drag.)

Prince was only human.

But to dismiss the young ladies he had relationships with or employed as just completely shallow is unfair to all parties involved. I think its complicated. That being said, Mayte's not the brightest girl in the world (just reading her facebook's lack of grammar indicates that) but she is a charming woman with a spunky creative side to her. I think she is more creative and talented than she gets credit for sometimes. She's got an "It" factor about her and seemed open to creative expression and adventure.

Look at young women like Lala Escarzega or Andy Allo. (Both women's facebook pages indicate intelligence and creativity). These girls are not stupid. Manuela is college educated. Many of Prince's harem (for lack of a better word) are kind of bright. Naive maybe but not brainless. Did they use Prince? Yep. I think so. But people can have more than one thought in their head at the same time. They can be enchanted by Prince and still accept and crave his help. Prince was the whole package in a way...sexy, successful, supportive, funny, creative, exciting. But he was also a mixed bag if you know what i mean. But like you said, he has never been accused of sexual harassment so maybe the relationships he had were more mutual than people tend to believe.

An older, more independent woman (no matter how attrached they might have been to prince) would be out of there the moment they realized that P would be spending 20 hours a day in the studio. Nevermind the other women, possible overuse of pain pill dating back years, and the religious conversion. But Prince did still support the more independent women he knew (later in life) and seemed to understand their need to spread their wings. Hell, he may have helped a few of his 'harem' to do so by letting them go.

[Edited 3/5/17 16:11pm]

purplerabbithole said:

someone has got to love the dumb women too. LOL. Prince was smart but even he wasn't college educated. His education was a bit rough around the edges.

I give you Mayte, Vanity, and of course Carmen. But what about Lisa coleman when he first dated her? or Nona Gaye or Bria Valente (who apparently could holdher own intellectually according to articles i read--despite her JW conversion) or Andy or Lala? I don't know about Susannah in terms of education. Tamar and Judith may or may not have had physical/romantic relationships with P...but they probably have a degree of intelligence. And of course, his early pre-Vanity relationships can't be discounted either. Hell, even his sexual relationship with Basinger. Kim's a bit nuts but she is not stupid.

P's taste in women is all over the place. the only thing they have in common is that they were able to at least briefly fit into his Paisley world and they were young/pretty. (Bria was one of the older ones I believe).

PeteSilas said:

when i say shallow or superficial I mean several possible things, either naive, greedy, calculating. Mayte, I'm sorry, just not bright, not bright at all. I've seen the type, and some of them are wonderful, sweet people, it's ironic but i've seen some of the most beautiful women I've known not be too bright but it's wierd how sweet they are. They seem like easy prey for a bastard to me. Now, manuela, she never gave interviews that I know of and we don't know that much about her but she sounds like a real oppurtunist/goldigger doesnt she? I know Vanity was the ultimate Prince woman for most here but she really really does not seem too smart, very sweet though, the kind that makes me feel bad calling her dumb. None of us really know what things were like in Princeworld, we can only guess. I've heard that Mayte had lied to him about something major, never found out what it was but that's just what I heard. men and women often cause their own problems by not knowing how the fuck to choose a mate or who to let in or not let in their lives. What can we do? Nothing, most people are attracted to things that are imprinted in their minds, it's not the person on the outside, they could get rid of them and they''d just find another just like them.

you seem to equate intelligence with education, I don't. I do think people are smart in different ways, I've seen some incredibly successful, bright people as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to basic mechanical skills, are they dumb? Of course not,but i guess when it comes to some things they certainly are. Same for me, i'm dumb in many ways, i'm sure you are too, most of us have strengths and weaknesses. The kind of dumb that Prince seemed to favor is almost like there isn't much to offer in any way aside from their bodies. I don't know what the attraction is myself, the same way I don't get why Bill Cosby wanted to rape comatose women, they just seem kind of empty. Not only that, stupid people, male or female irritate the hell out of me and just seem to get in the way by being so helpless, why prince liked that, I don't know. It is a western idea of man/women relationships though, the man is a god and the women and children are his subjects, things are changing radically but Prince was still from the old school when it came to chauvinism. Not to say he didn't know anything about reverence for the female, he did but he was at odds with himself just like he was with everything else in his life and art.

You are right about two things..we don't know what went on in conversation between Prince and the women in his life and Prince was probably at war with himself. But i resent the notion that every single woman he dated or befriended was basically a dumb whore (regardless of education or degree of common sense) to Prince with nothing else to offer Prince other than their bodies. Let's say you are right to some degree that some of the women he was with were used for their bodies. But one could argue that Prince himself was a dumb whore at times. He sold his own sexuality to the public which sometimes led to his appearance overshadowing his accomplishments. Could Prince have seen these women as both objects and human beings at the same time?--in the same way, he wanted the public to see him. I am sure there are dumber and prettier women he could have dated. I just don't think he is as shallow as you making him out to be where women are concerned. He actually talked more to women than to men. He showed interest.. One could just argue that he was just being a womanizer. But even a womanizer likes women enough to pay attention and put effort forth. And clumping all those women under the same category is unfair. It also leaves out the fact that Prince hired women (married and unavailable) to work for him when there are plenty of men in that industry he could have hired (of equal talent).

As for the Rainbrow children version of male superiority you referred to in your post. I will give you that one. Prince at least at one point had those antiquated thoughts in his head. But like I said, he was retrograding/backsliding in 2001 (due to religious indoctination and stubborness) but seemed to be going in the right direction at the end of his life.

Also, i like you Pete but you almost seem to be equating Bill's raping of comatose women to P's relationships. I hope that's not what you think, that Prince's relationshiops were that empty and offensive.

I consider myself a feminist, but I am no Puritan and do believe that women and men for that matter can exist as both sexual objects and human beings at the same time. To me, that is just realistic. That being said, I prefer to not be obsessed with my or other people's looks. Prince was capable of being shallow where that is concerned. But considering that beautiful women are not in short supply in his world, its not surprisng he would be enticed. Yes, of course, he had an ego. . Also, considering how much time he put into his own appearance, I don't think it was just about the women being sexual objects. He objectified himself at times but still wanted people to see his talent. How is Vanity not similar at least in that respect?

On a human level, the dude needed companionship--where was he going to get it and still fulfill his mission as a workaholic musical legend who pushed the boundaries of sexuality etc? Cutting women out of his life wasn't the solution for him apparently (maybe at the end, he attempted it).

ALso, consider how we define intelligence---Gardner's 8 types of intelligences include social, linquistic, physical, intrapersonal, interpersonal, visual/spatial, musical, mathmatical, and naturalistic. Any number of these women could have different degrees of these 'intelligences' in them just as Prince himself did.

Prince was too complicated of a dude and many of his relationships lasted more than just one night stands for it to just be for their bodies.

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

someone has got to love the dumb women too. LOL. Prince was smart but even he wasn't college educated. His education was a bit rough around the edges.

I give you Mayte, Vanity, and of course Carmen. But what about Lisa coleman when he first dated her? or Nona Gaye or Bria Valente (who apparently could holdher own intellectually according to articles i read--despite her JW conversion) or Andy or Lala? I don't know about Susannah in terms of education. Tamar and Judith may or may not have had physical/romantic relationships with P...but they probably have a degree of intelligence. And of course, his early pre-Vanity relationships can't be discounted either. Hell, even his sexual relationship with Basinger. Kim's a bit nuts but she is not stupid.

P's taste in women is all over the place. the only thing they have in common is that they were able to at least briefly fit into his Paisley world and they were young/pretty. (Bria was one of the older ones I believe).

you seem to equate intelligence with education, I don't. I do think people are smart in different ways, I've seen some incredibly successful, bright people as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to basic mechanical skills, are they dumb? Of course not,but i guess when it comes to some things they certainly are. Same for me, i'm dumb in many ways, i'm sure you are too, most of us have strengths and weaknesses. The kind of dumb that Prince seemed to favor is almost like there isn't much to offer in any way aside from their bodies. I don't know what the attraction is myself, the same way I don't get why Bill Cosby wanted to rape comatose women, they just seem kind of empty. Not only that, stupid people, male or female irritate the hell out of me and just seem to get in the way by being so helpless, why prince liked that, I don't know. It is a western idea of man/women relationships though, the man is a god and the women and children are his subjects, things are changing radically but Prince was still from the old school when it came to chauvinism. Not to say he didn't know anything about reverence for the female, he did but he was at odds with himself just like he was with everything else in his life and art.

[Edited 3/5/17 17:50pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 17:57pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 18:02pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 18:40pm]

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Ian Halprin said the women prince had been with was in the thousands, seems unlikely, but how many women wanted to be with prince ?(at any age no less) surely in the millions, so maybe??...what would it be like to be the person that could have anyone, buy anything, go everywhere. What an awesome life, prince had an awesome life, prince is awesome...

If he slept with thousands he would have high chance of having experienced getting some sexually transmitted diseases...hopefully not any serious ones.

I tend to doubt the idea he slept with literally thousands and how would Ian Halprin know that for sure.

I think its quite possible and maybe likely he'd slept with several hundred but who are these ladies, like are we talking A list to C list celeb's, are we talking fan's from audience of concerts. If its mostly fans then I assume he would had to have a system set up, like someone had to make contact with the girls for him and set up the meeting. Most likely the option was there for him to sleep with thousands of willing women, but there had to be time for that process not just the sex but the arranging as well and it seems he was a really busy guy making music, rehearsing,touring, playing late night clubs after major concerts ...so where did he get the time for all those bootycalls.

"what would it be like to be the person that could have anyone, buy anything, go everywhere. What an awesome life, prince had an awesome life, prince is awesome..."

I havnt been exactly in that position lol, I imagine it would be awesome but I can also imagine that

people could get over it to,not in the sense of to lose the urge just that it becomes so easy that it doesnt seem as much big deal probably more a big deal for the ones who dont have it that easy, I mean beutiful women willing to worship you and let u worship them would be super cool but I can see how people who have that situation on tap could get relaxed about it.

People like Charlie Sheen , thats something different thats like a mental health issue imo...thats not even really about the sex anymore.

[Edited 3/5/17 18:28pm]

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

You are right about two things..we don't know what went on in conversation between Prince and the women in his life and Prince was probably at war with himself. But i resent the notion that every single woman he dated or befriended was basically a dumb whore (regardless of education or degree of common sense) to Prince with nothing else to offer Prince other than their bodies. Let's say you are right to some degree that some of the women he was with were used for their bodies. But one could argue that Prince himself was a dumb whore at times. He sold his own sexuality to the public which sometimes led to his appearance overshadowing his accomplishments. Could Prince have seen these women as both objects and human beings at the same time?--in the same way, he wanted the public to see him. I am sure there are dumber and prettier women he could have dated. I just don't think he is as shallow as you making him out to be where women are concerned. He actually talked more to women than to men. He showed interest.. One could just argue that he was just being a womanizer. But even a womanizer likes women enough to pay attention and put effort forth. And clumping all those women under the same category is unfair. It also leaves out the fact that Prince hired women (married and unavailable) to work for him when there are plenty of men in that industry he could have hired (of equal talent).

As for the Rainbrow children version of male superiority you referred to in your post. I will give you that one. Prince at least at one point had those antiquated thoughts in his head. But like I said, he was retrograding/backsliding in 2001 (due to religious indoctination and stubborness) but seemed to be going in the right direction at the end of his life.

Also, i like you Pete but you almost seem to be equating Bill's raping of comatose women to P's relationships. I hope that's not what you think, that Prince's relationshiops were that empty and offensive.

I consider myself a feminist, but I am no Puritan and do believe that women and men for that matter can exist as both sexual objects and human beings at the same time. To me, that is just realistic. That being said, I prefer to not be obsessed with my or other people's looks. Prince was capable of being shallow where that is concerned. But considering that beautiful women are not in short supply in his world, its not surprisng he would be enticed. Yes, of course, he had an ego. . Also, considering how much time he put into his own appearance, I don't think it was just about the women being sexual objects. He objectified himself at times but still wanted people to see his talent. How is Vanity not similar at least in that respect?

On a human level, the dude needed companionship--where was he going to get it and still fulfill his mission as a workaholic musical legend who pushed the boundaries of sexuality etc? Cutting women out of his life wasn't the solution for him apparently (maybe at the end, he attempted it).

ALso, consider how we define intelligence---Gardner's 8 types of intelligences include social, linquistic, physical, intrapersonal, interpersonal, visual/spatial, musical, mathmatical, and naturalistic. Any number of these women could have different degrees of these 'intelligences' in them just as Prince himself did.

Prince was too complicated of a dude and many of his relationships lasted more than just one night stands for it to just be for their bodies.

PeteSilas said:

you seem to equate intelligence with education, I don't. I do think people are smart in different ways, I've seen some incredibly successful, bright people as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to basic mechanical skills, are they dumb? Of course not,but i guess when it comes to some things they certainly are. Same for me, i'm dumb in many ways, i'm sure you are too, most of us have strengths and weaknesses. The kind of dumb that Prince seemed to favor is almost like there isn't much to offer in any way aside from their bodies. I don't know what the attraction is myself, the same way I don't get why Bill Cosby wanted to rape comatose women, they just seem kind of empty. Not only that, stupid people, male or female irritate the hell out of me and just seem to get in the way by being so helpless, why prince liked that, I don't know. It is a western idea of man/women relationships though, the man is a god and the women and children are his subjects, things are changing radically but Prince was still from the old school when it came to chauvinism. Not to say he didn't know anything about reverence for the female, he did but he was at odds with himself just like he was with everything else in his life and art.

[Edited 3/5/17 17:50pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 17:57pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 18:02pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 18:40pm]

I was trying to put it as uninsultingly as I could, that's why I brought up bill, some of those women/girls, young enough to be his daughter or grandaughters were absolutely drop dead gorgeous but I can't understand what the hell the thrill is there,with the women being absolutely unconscious. I didn't want to say what some men might say and call a shallow, dumb woman a "fuckdoll". I didn't want to say that but anyway, there are those women out there who do that to themselves, they have all the looks in the world and for whatever reason flirt with every man they see and go on trips with rich men. It's not my job to judge those people, all I can say is I can't see much attraction myself. The sweetness when it's there is a wonderful thing but the complete lack of personhood and thought that would comprise the other 99percent of the time when you're not bumping uglies would seem to be wasteful. Maybe it's me, I don't socialize with many people, male or female because It think most of it's bullshit and a waste of time. I guess that could be called schizoid or what have you, if that's the case I'm schizoid and antisocial like a motherfucker.

[Edited 3/5/17 19:10pm]

oscarchristio777 said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

Ian Halprin said the women prince had been with was in the thousands, seems unlikely, but how many women wanted to be with prince ?(at any age no less) surely in the millions, so maybe??...what would it be like to be the person that could have anyone, buy anything, go everywhere. What an awesome life, prince had an awesome life, prince is awesome...

If he slept with thousands he would have high chance of having experienced getting some sexually transmitted diseases...hopefully not any serious ones.

I tend to doubt the idea he slept with literally thousands and how would Ian Halprin know that for sure.

I think its quite possible and maybe likely he'd slept with several hundred but who are these ladies, like are we talking A list to C list celeb's, are we talking fan's from audience of concerts. If its mostly fans then I assume he would had to have a system set up, like someone had to make contact with the girls for him and set up the meeting. Most likely the option was there for him to sleep with thousands of willing women, but there had to be time for that process not just the sex but the arranging as well and it seems he was a really busy guy making music, rehearsing,touring, playing late night clubs after major concerts ...so where did he get the time for all those bootycalls.

"what would it be like to be the person that could have anyone, buy anything, go everywhere. What an awesome life, prince had an awesome life, prince is awesome..."

I havnt been exactly in that position lol, I imagine it would be awesome but I can also imagine that

people could get over it to,not in the sense of to lose the urge just that it becomes so easy that it doesnt seem as much big deal probably more a big deal for the ones who dont have it that easy, I mean beutiful women willing to worship you and let u worship them would be super cool but I can see how people who have that situation on tap could get relaxed about it.

People like Charlie Sheen , thats something different thats like a mental health issue imo...thats not even really about the sex anymore.

[Edited 3/5/17 18:28pm]

People did wonder about Prince and aids, there were the rumours of the bubbleheaded anna fantastic who came out with the crazy rumours years ago about sex dungeons. That's the other thing with women like that, how can you even trust them? Many famous men have only gotten themselves into rape accusations by messing with some groupie or woman who thought they had a shot for more than a quick screw and decided they would get revenge by making something up. That's what mystifies me, how did prince get away with that, women do not react well to being told they come 2nd or 3rd or 4th in someone's life or that they don't even place. Maybe only Prince could do that because for all of his sexual antics, a five two guy in lace and makeup really isn't that threatening. Mike Tyson did 3 and half years after supposedly raping some woman, he says that he just sent her home and that she was angry for being used. when it becomes his word against hers, it's just a mess that he didn't need. those kinds of things have happened to me too, though not as serious, i've been accused of stalking or harassing, it's why I don't even approach women anymore. Neither sex is absolved here and in this country, everything is pretty much everyone is at odds with each other. I kind of envy people I see from "third world" countries, they seem almost like brother and sister rather than as some kind of victim/victimizer when they talk to each other.

[Edited 3/5/17 19:23pm]

Unless Prince had children at a very young age who in turn had children at young ages, he wasn't old enough to be any 20-something year old's grandfather. But I see what you mean.

The young women in his life may be just because he felt old and liked their youthful energy, talent, and enthusiasm. It may have made him feel young and useful. But I am in the camp that believes he wasn't screwing all the young women he was mentoring. I know you probably heard Damaris Lewis prank calling him. She was of course his muse and not particularly talented (unlike most of the young women he mentored in later years) but she did seem to have a fun rapport with P in that prank call and could joke around with him. He flirted and mentioned her looks but she also held her own. One line stood out to me, that once they 'cleaned her up and shaved her down' as he teased, "that's when his fantasy began". He used the word 'fantasy'. I don't think they were doing anything and they enjoyed just kicking it and watching basketball and teasing each other. Were they kind of using each other for professional reasons? Sure, and I don't think either one thought otherwise. It was mutual in my opinion. But I think they enjoyed each others company. PLus, to her credit, she always claimed they were just friends.

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

You are right about two things..we don't know what went on in conversation between Prince and the women in his life and Prince was probably at war with himself. But i resent the notion that every single woman he dated or befriended was basically a dumb whore (regardless of education or degree of common sense) to Prince with nothing else to offer Prince other than their bodies. Let's say you are right to some degree that some of the women he was with were used for their bodies. But one could argue that Prince himself was a dumb whore at times. He sold his own sexuality to the public which sometimes led to his appearance overshadowing his accomplishments. Could Prince have seen these women as both objects and human beings at the same time?--in the same way, he wanted the public to see him. I am sure there are dumber and prettier women he could have dated. I just don't think he is as shallow as you making him out to be where women are concerned. He actually talked more to women than to men. He showed interest.. One could just argue that he was just being a womanizer. But even a womanizer likes women enough to pay attention and put effort forth. And clumping all those women under the same category is unfair. It also leaves out the fact that Prince hired women (married and unavailable) to work for him when there are plenty of men in that industry he could have hired (of equal talent).

As for the Rainbrow children version of male superiority you referred to in your post. I will give you that one. Prince at least at one point had those antiquated thoughts in his head. But like I said, he was retrograding/backsliding in 2001 (due to religious indoctination and stubborness) but seemed to be going in the right direction at the end of his life.

Also, i like you Pete but you almost seem to be equating Bill's raping of comatose women to P's relationships. I hope that's not what you think, that Prince's relationshiops were that empty and offensive.

I consider myself a feminist, but I am no Puritan and do believe that women and men for that matter can exist as both sexual objects and human beings at the same time. To me, that is just realistic. That being said, I prefer to not be obsessed with my or other people's looks. Prince was capable of being shallow where that is concerned. But considering that beautiful women are not in short supply in his world, its not surprisng he would be enticed. Yes, of course, he had an ego. . Also, considering how much time he put into his own appearance, I don't think it was just about the women being sexual objects. He objectified himself at times but still wanted people to see his talent. How is Vanity not similar at least in that respect?

On a human level, the dude needed companionship--where was he going to get it and still fulfill his mission as a workaholic musical legend who pushed the boundaries of sexuality etc? Cutting women out of his life wasn't the solution for him apparently (maybe at the end, he attempted it).

ALso, consider how we define intelligence---Gardner's 8 types of intelligences include social, linquistic, physical, intrapersonal, interpersonal, visual/spatial, musical, mathmatical, and naturalistic. Any number of these women could have different degrees of these 'intelligences' in them just as Prince himself did.

Prince was too complicated of a dude and many of his relationships lasted more than just one night stands for it to just be for their bodies.

[Edited 3/5/17 17:50pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 17:57pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 18:02pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 18:40pm]

I was trying to put it as uninsultingly as I could, that's why I brought up bill, some of those women/girls, young enough to be his daughter or grandaughters were absolutely drop dead gorgeous but I can't understand what the hell the thrill is there,with the women being absolutely unconscious. I didn't want to say what some men might say and call a shallow, dumb woman a "fuckdoll". I didn't want to say that but anyway, there are those women out there who do that to themselves, they have all the looks in the world and for whatever reason flirt with every man they see and go on trips with rich men. It's not my job to judge those people, all I can say is I can't see much attraction myself. The sweetness when it's there is a wonderful thing but the complete lack of personhood and thought that would comprise the other 99percent of the time when you're not bumping uglies would seem to be wasteful. Maybe it's me, I don't socialize with many people, male or female because It think most of it's bullshit and a waste of time. I guess that could be called schizoid or what have you, if that's the case I'm schizoid and antisocial like a motherfucker.

[Edited 3/5/17 19:10pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 19:37pm]

[Edited 3/5/17 19:46pm]

purplerabbithole said:

You are right about two things..we don't know what went on in conversation between Prince and the women in his life and Prince was probably at war with himself. But i resent the notion that every single woman he dated or befriended was basically a dumb whore (regardless of education or degree of common sense) to Prince with nothing else to offer Prince other than their bodies. Let's say you are right to some degree that some of the women he was with were used for their bodies. But one could argue that Prince himself was a dumb whore at times. He sold his own sexuality to the public which sometimes led to his appearance overshadowing his accomplishments. Could Prince have seen these women as both objects and human beings at the same time?--in the same way, he wanted the public to see him. I am sure there are dumber and prettier women he could have dated. I just don't think he is as shallow as you making him out to be where women are concerned. He actually talked more to women than to men. He showed interest.. One could just argue that he was just being a womanizer. But even a womanizer likes women enough to pay attention and put effort forth. And clumping all those women under the same category is unfair. It also leaves out the fact that Prince hired women (married and unavailable) to work for him when there are plenty of men in that industry he could have hired (of equal talent).

As for the Rainbrow children version of male superiority you referred to in your post. I will give you that one. Prince at least at one point had those antiquated thoughts in his head. But like I said, he was retrograding/backsliding in 2001 (due to religious indoctination and stubborness) but seemed to be going in the right direction at the end of his life.

Also, i like you Pete but you almost seem to be equating Bill's raping of comatose women to P's relationships. I hope that's not what you think, that Prince's relationshiops were that empty and offensive.

I consider myself a feminist, but I am no Puritan and do believe that women and men for that matter can exist as both sexual objects and human beings at the same time. To me, that is just realistic. That being said, I prefer to not be obsessed with my or other people's looks. Prince was capable of being shallow where that is concerned. But considering that beautiful women are not in short supply in his world, its not surprisng he would be enticed. Yes, of course, he had an ego. . Also, considering how much time he put into his own appearance, I don't think it was just about the women being sexual objects. He objectified himself at times but still wanted people to see his talent. How is Vanity not similar at least in that respect?

On a human level, the dude needed companionship--where was he going to get it and still fulfill his mission as a workaholic musical legend who pushed the boundaries of sexuality etc? Cutting women out of his life wasn't the solution for him apparently (maybe at the end, he attempted it).

ALso, consider how we define intelligence---Gardner's 8 types of intelligences include social, linquistic, physical, intrapersonal, interpersonal, visual/spatial, musical, mathmatical, and naturalistic. Any number of these women could have different degrees of these 'intelligences' in them just as Prince himself did.

Prince was too complicated of a dude and many of his relationships lasted more than just one night stands for it to just be for their bodies.

Very good post.