Did Prince ever get a real social life? I really hope if anything the JW's brought him a social life (Religion when taken too literally is bunk IMO, but it can serve to bring folks together.)

https://www.yahoo.com/bea...08611.html

I noticed something though, the accounts of Prince that seem the most cold and sad (a man impossible to know beyond employer) are mostly prior to 2004.

The warmer accounts are later. Maybe, they are B.S. But it does seem to be the case that the accounts of Prince contradicted by some previous employees (pre-2004 or so) are the accounts from the last 15 years or so of his life.

don't you mean Manuela? Not Mayte. Right?

purplerabbithole said:

No, I meant Mayte, Read the article. This lady worked for Prince in the early 90's and off and on again in the second half of the 90's.

I mentioned JW's and the 2000's because Prince just seemed a bit less socially awkward then.

Superfan1984 said:

don't you mean Manuela? Not Mayte. Right?

True, but the worst accounts of Prince (and most cynical ones) come from folks prior to 2003/2004. (Barbarello, the dude who just created a facebook account, Leeds (both), the first NPG), these folks seem to have had a different experience with Prince back then (not necessarily all bad, but definitely much more distant) . Wendy and Lisa have varying accounts of Prince..(in fact, women in general do tend to have less stoic accounts of Prince than men)

Yes, Mayte at one point anyway did seem to get him to loosen up. Everyone talks about his being controlling of Mayte, but she got him out of his shell, she might have actually influenced him to become a vegan, and she may even be partly the reason he thought of changing his name to a symbol. Hear me out on the last one. In that Oprah interview, Mayte said something about how she never called him Prince even before the name change, that it was just weird to do so. I remember kind of rolling my eyes when she said that. I figured she was just saying that to support his decision. However, in another interview of hers years later, she restated the same thing again but explained further that she had never liked to call him Prince because the name was so famous and she wanted to see him as a person rather than a star. (Yep, I know she has an opportunist side [or mother] but obviously people often have numerous conflicting motives for the things they do) Now, I realize that Prince changed the name for business and possibly spiritual reasons. But is it possible the idea was influenced by her?

Another thing, his afro. Is it so unreasonable to think he was trying to impress Andy.

People often talk about humanizing Prince. But generally they are just demonizing him. Showing his selfishness and ego to de-sanctify him. But that is not humanizing that is demonizing. Humanizing is revealing the man's flaws but also his vulnerabilities, his weaknessed as well as his strengths. His death I think actually made it occur to people that perhaps the man was more vulnerable than they were willing to face when he was alive.

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

Did Prince ever get a real social life? I really hope if anything the JW's brought him a social life (Religion when taken too literally is bunk IMO, but it can serve to bring folks together.)

https://www.yahoo.com/bea...08611.html

I noticed something though, the accounts of Prince that seem the most cold and sad (a man impossible to know beyond employer) are mostly prior to 2004.

The warmer accounts are later. Maybe, they are B.S. But it does seem to be the case that the accounts of Prince contradicted by some previous employees (pre-2004 or so) are the accounts from the last 15 years or so of his life.

There good accounts around the time he was married to Mayte. Many people said he loosen up around her. I honestly think he worked too hard and slept to little that lifestyle can make it impossible to be well rounded.

[Edited 3/1/17 19:54pm]

[Edited 3/1/17 20:27pm]

[Edited 3/1/17 20:30pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Its hard to relate to a person's music if you think he might be an automotron. In other words, if the 'emotion' conveyed in the music seems to be coming from a vaccuum rather than at least a little from the heart, it makes the listener (or this listener) believe she has been deceived or manipulated. It feels less like art and more like bullshit.

rogifan said:

Why are some people obsessed with what kind of social life he had? I think this is a weird obsession.

said:

purplerabbithole said:

No, I meant Mayte, Read the article. This lady worked for Prince in the early 90's and off and on again in the second half of the 90's.

I mentioned JW's and the 2000's because Prince just seemed a bit less socially awkward then.

Superfan1984 said:

don't you mean Manuela? Not Mayte. Right?

Sorry-- I just noticed such a drastic difference in him when he got with Manuela.

purplerabbithole said:

I’ve read quite a few comments from fans saying that it saddens them when people talk of Prince as a rather solitary figure. Few of us knew him apart from what we managed to glean from a distance and through second-hand accounts, but I think it’s a mistake to assume that feelings of loneliness and the need for social interaction are present to the same extent in all people. As far as I’ve gauged and without wishing to perpetuate a cliché, Prince seemed to possess a personality type that isn’t entirely uncommon in creative people. Of course it’s not universally so, but many individuals with genuine talent are lost to their own internal worlds to a large extent (often true of highly intelligent people, or extremely gifted artists). Few are completely immune to loneliness, but some individuals simply view their lives from a different perspective to those who are naturally more gregarious (and often less driven). From the outside it may seem rather pitiful and sad, but of course we have no access to the rich internal life of others. I’ve known a few highly talented or intelligent people of this type, and most struggled to reconcile these aspects of their personality with the broader demands of life. Cast in this light, I consider Prince’s life to be a triumph; by sheer talent and force of will he created a world for himself in which he could exist almost completely independently.

Another clear trait was his strength of will and almost obsessive self discipline. It’s been said before, but the experiences of his youth, the fact that he couldn’t rely on anyone, must have had a significant influence. Again, while this may have left him a little cold, “selfish” and aloof to outsiders, ultimately we should admire him. Many would have allowed these experiences to hold them back. It reminds me of some of the things that Nietzsche wrote about independence, self-overcoming and “turning muck into gold”. Often, it’s precisely this introversion and distance that enables people to view the world in a unique and interesting way and produce original work or ideas.

That’s not to completely exonerate him, like anyone he undoubtedly had shallower and less edifying traits, everyone is flawed. I also think it’s probably true that he reached some kind of plateau and contentment later in life. The suggestion that he was some kind unfeeling automaton is just silly in my view. It’s true that he was quite guarded in what he revealed lyrically, but pure music is just as valid a medium of emotional expression as language. If a piece of music moves you then it’s a genuine exchange of feeling, and there’s absolutely no need to question the integrity of the artist beyond that. I mean, I’m a huge Miles Davis fan and by all accounts he possessed some seriously difficult traits, but that doesn’t alter the fact that his music has the power to make me weep. People are complex, and some simply direct their emotions inward and mould them creatively, it doesn’t mean that these feelings exist to any lesser extent (often quite the opposite). Also, some view life more abstractly than others and sketch on a broader canvas. I agree with Rogifan, I don’t spend much time thinking about Prince’s personality, relationships or social life, I’m really just here for the work. That said, whenever I hear people try to cast Prince as some kind of tragic figure this how I think of it, and apart from its brevity, there’s really very little about Prince’s life that makes me sad at all.

fen said:

fen said:

rogifan said:

fen said:

I’ve read quite a few comments from fans saying that it saddens them when people talk of Prince as a rather solitary figure. Few of us knew him apart from what we managed to glean from a distance and through second-hand accounts, but I think it’s a mistake to assume that feelings of loneliness and the need for social interaction are present to the same extent in all people. As far as I’ve gauged and without wishing to perpetuate a cliché, Prince seemed to possess a personality type that isn’t entirely uncommon in creative people. Of course it’s not universally so, but many individuals with genuine talent are lost to their own internal worlds to a large extent (often true of highly intelligent people, or extremely gifted artists). Few are completely immune to loneliness, but some individuals simply view their lives from a different perspective to those who are naturally more gregarious (and often less driven). From the outside it may seem rather pitiful and sad, but of course we have no access to the rich internal life of others. I’ve known a few highly talented or intelligent people of this type, and most struggled to reconcile these aspects of their personality with the broader demands of life. Cast in this light, I consider Prince’s life to be a triumph; by sheer talent and force of will he created a world for himself in which he could exist almost completely independently.

Another clear trait was his strength of will and almost obsessive self discipline. It’s been said before, but the experiences of his youth, the fact that he couldn’t rely on anyone, must have had a significant influence. Again, while this may have left him a little cold, “selfish” and aloof to outsiders, ultimately we should admire him. Many would have allowed these experiences to hold them back. It reminds me of some of the things that Nietzsche wrote about independence, self-overcoming and “turning muck into gold”. Often, it’s precisely this introversion and distance that enables people to view the world in a unique and interesting way and produce original work or ideas.

That’s not to completely exonerate him, like anyone he undoubtedly had shallower and less edifying traits, everyone is flawed. I also think it’s probably true that he reached some kind of plateau and contentment later in life. The suggestion that he was some kind unfeeling automaton is just silly in my view. It’s true that he was quite guarded in what he revealed lyrically, but pure music is just as valid a medium of emotional expression as language. If a piece of music moves you then it’s a genuine exchange of feeling, and there’s absolutely no need to question the integrity of the artist beyond that. I mean, I’m a huge Miles Davis fan and by all accounts he possessed some seriously difficult traits, but that doesn’t alter the fact that his music has the power to make me weep. People are complex, and some simply direct their emotions inward and mould them creatively, it doesn’t mean that these feelings exist to any lesser extent (often quite the opposite). Also, some view life more abstractly than others and sketch on a broader canvas. I agree with Rogifan, I don’t spend much time thinking about Prince’s personality, relationships or social life, I’m really just here for the work. That said, whenever I hear people try to cast Prince as some kind of tragic figure this how I think of it, and apart from its brevity, there’s really very little about Prince’s life that makes me sad at all.

Beautifully said. 👌🏻

I was about to say the same.Beautifully worded. He's gone, besides the music he left behind, anything else really matters now.

Interpersonal interraction is what fuels any creativity. Its what makes us human. I am not saying the interaction has to be consistent, healthy or even constant but it needs to be there to some extent. That being said, i forgot about an artist's ability to observe. Prince may not have interacted a ton with people at times but it doesn't mean he didn't observe others constantly, empathize or even long for interaction and connection. The thing is we don't know if his lack of socializing was due to an inability or lack of desire (or both depending on the situation)

Interaction or connection with others in the human race, I suppose, can also happen in one's imagination. But a totally disconnected and cold narcissist would be a piss-poor artist in my opinion. Some isolation and narcissm maybe. But there still needs to be moments of honest human interaction to build one's empahy for humanity.

Most of the time I don't think Prince's music came from a vacuum. But boy, at times, I can't figure out where it came from. Think about it. He worked all the time. If the only people around him were employees in which he had limited personal connection to (who walked on egg shells around him and disbelieved any people's accounts of supposed friendships), then who did he interact with in meaningful ways? Himself and God are not enough.

Maybe, short fleeting interactions he had meant much more to him than they would to others around them. In other words, a fellow musician or employee might need more time to feel for someone. Maybe, it didn't take much for Prince-- but that being said, this hypersensitivy might have made him quick to defend himself, quick to find fault, quick to self protect when he perceived any kind of threat or possible heartbreak, quick to avoid too much intereaction, quick to cut off relationships, quick to withdraw into self. Paranoia and suspicion could be the result. I guess that is how I will have to make sense of the contradictions. Prince is a suprisingly sensitive singer sometimes--I guess one wouldn't know how to sing in a sensitive way (unless they were just completely derivative -- which he wasn't) unless they understood the emotions they were singing.

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

Its hard to relate to a person's music if you think he might be an automotron. In other words, if the 'emotion' conveyed in the music seems to be coming from a vaccuum rather than at least a little from the heart, it makes the listener (or this listener) believe she has been deceived or manipulated. It feels less like art and more like bullshit.

Why do you believe his music was coming from a vacuum?

[Edited 3/2/17 14:44pm]

rogifan said:

Why are some people obsessed with what kind of social life he had? I think this is a weird obsession.

Some of us care about his music and more.

[Edited 3/2/17 15:41pm]

fen said:

I’ve read quite a few comments from fans saying that it saddens them when people talk of Prince as a rather solitary figure. Few of us knew him apart from what we managed to glean from a distance and through second-hand accounts, but I think it’s a mistake to assume that feelings of loneliness and the need for social interaction are present to the same extent in all people. As far as I’ve gauged and without wishing to perpetuate a cliché, Prince seemed to possess a personality type that isn’t entirely uncommon in creative people. Of course it’s not universally so, but many individuals with genuine talent are lost to their own internal worlds to a large extent (often true of highly intelligent people, or extremely gifted artists). Few are completely immune to loneliness, but some individuals simply view their lives from a different perspective to those who are naturally more gregarious (and often less driven). From the outside it may seem rather pitiful and sad, but of course we have no access to the rich internal life of others. I’ve known a few highly talented or intelligent people of this type, and most struggled to reconcile these aspects of their personality with the broader demands of life. Cast in this light, I consider Prince’s life to be a triumph; by sheer talent and force of will he created a world for himself in which he could exist almost completely independently.

Another clear trait was his strength of will and almost obsessive self discipline. It’s been said before, but the experiences of his youth, the fact that he couldn’t rely on anyone, must have had a significant influence. Again, while this may have left him a little cold, “selfish” and aloof to outsiders, ultimately we should admire him. Many would have allowed these experiences to hold them back. It reminds me of some of the things that Nietzsche wrote about independence, self-overcoming and “turning muck into gold”. Often, it’s precisely this introversion and distance that enables people to view the world in a unique and interesting way and produce original work or ideas.

That’s not to completely exonerate him, like anyone he undoubtedly had shallower and less edifying traits, everyone is flawed. I also think it’s probably true that he reached some kind of plateau and contentment later in life. The suggestion that he was some kind unfeeling automaton is just silly in my view. It’s true that he was quite guarded in what he revealed lyrically, but pure music is just as valid a medium of emotional expression as language. If a piece of music moves you then it’s a genuine exchange of feeling, and there’s absolutely no need to question the integrity of the artist beyond that. I mean, I’m a huge Miles Davis fan and by all accounts he possessed some seriously difficult traits, but that doesn’t alter the fact that his music has the power to make me weep. People are complex, and some simply direct their emotions inward and mould them creatively, it doesn’t mean that these feelings exist to any lesser extent (often quite the opposite). Also, some view life more abstractly than others and sketch on a broader canvas. I agree with Rogifan, I don’t spend much time thinking about Prince’s personality, relationships or social life, I’m really just here for the work. That said, whenever I hear people try to cast Prince as some kind of tragic figure this how I think of it, and apart from its brevity, there’s really very little about Prince’s life that makes me sad at all.

purplerabbithole said:

True, but the worst accounts of Prince (and most cynical ones) come from folks prior to 2003/2004. (Barbarello, the dude who just created a facebook account, Leeds (both), the first NPG), these folks seem to have had a different experience with Prince back then (not necessarily all bad, but definitely much more distant) . Wendy and Lisa have varying accounts of Prince..(in fact, women in general do tend to have less stoic accounts of Prince than men)

Yes, Mayte at one point anyway did seem to get him to loosen up. Everyone talks about his being controlling of Mayte, but she got him out of his shell, she might have actually influenced him to become a vegan, and she may even be partly the reason he thought of changing his name to a symbol. Hear me out on the last one. In that Oprah interview, Mayte said something about how she never called him Prince even before the name change, that it was just weird to do so. I remember kind of rolling my eyes when she said that. I figured she was just saying that to support his decision. However, in another interview of hers years later, she restated the same thing again but explained further that she had never liked to call him Prince because the name was so famous and she wanted to see him as a person rather than a star. (Yep, I know she has an opportunist side [or mother] but obviously people often have numerous conflicting motives for the things they do) Now, I realize that Prince changed the name for business and possibly spiritual reasons. But is it possible the idea was influenced by her?

Another thing, his afro. Is it so unreasonable to think he was trying to impress Andy.

People often talk about humanizing Prince. But generally they are just demonizing him. Showing his selfishness and ego to de-sanctify him. But that is not humanizing that is demonizing. Humanizing is revealing the man's flaws but also his vulnerabilities, his weaknessed as well as his strengths. His death I think actually made it occur to people that perhaps the man was more vulnerable than they were willing to face when he was alive.

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said: There good accounts around the time he was married to Mayte. Many people said he loosen up around her. I honestly think he worked too hard and slept to little that lifestyle can make it impossible to be well rounded.

[Edited 3/1/17 19:54pm]

[Edited 3/1/17 20:27pm]

[Edited 3/1/17 20:30pm]

Andy was only part of the reason.

Oh, I agree. His pride in his African American roots is part of the reason as well.

TrcikyChristopher said:

purplerabbithole said:

True, but the worst accounts of Prince (and most cynical ones) come from folks prior to 2003/2004. (Barbarello, the dude who just created a facebook account, Leeds (both), the first NPG), these folks seem to have had a different experience with Prince back then (not necessarily all bad, but definitely much more distant) . Wendy and Lisa have varying accounts of Prince..(in fact, women in general do tend to have less stoic accounts of Prince than men)

Yes, Mayte at one point anyway did seem to get him to loosen up. Everyone talks about his being controlling of Mayte, but she got him out of his shell, she might have actually influenced him to become a vegan, and she may even be partly the reason he thought of changing his name to a symbol. Hear me out on the last one. In that Oprah interview, Mayte said something about how she never called him Prince even before the name change, that it was just weird to do so. I remember kind of rolling my eyes when she said that. I figured she was just saying that to support his decision. However, in another interview of hers years later, she restated the same thing again but explained further that she had never liked to call him Prince because the name was so famous and she wanted to see him as a person rather than a star. (Yep, I know she has an opportunist side [or mother] but obviously people often have numerous conflicting motives for the things they do) Now, I realize that Prince changed the name for business and possibly spiritual reasons. But is it possible the idea was influenced by her?

Another thing, his afro. Is it so unreasonable to think he was trying to impress Andy.

People often talk about humanizing Prince. But generally they are just demonizing him. Showing his selfishness and ego to de-sanctify him. But that is not humanizing that is demonizing. Humanizing is revealing the man's flaws but also his vulnerabilities, his weaknessed as well as his strengths. His death I think actually made it occur to people that perhaps the man was more vulnerable than they were willing to face when he was alive.

[Edited 3/1/17 19:54pm]

[Edited 3/1/17 20:27pm]

[Edited 3/1/17 20:30pm]

Andy was only part of the reason.

AnonymousFan said: