LBrent said:

GimmeThat said:

Anyone who "dated" P and was shocked to find out that he had other women had to be willfully ignorant. He was who he was.

Exactly!

Perfectly stated!

rednblue said:

jayseajay said:

Ahh right, got you Yeah, I don't know anything more than the 'oh my malady' bit Susan has reported, and the crazy line about the glasses from the snippet, but yeah, the malady bit chimes with the 'what the hell is wrong with me' stuff in Computer Blue, totally. The more I think about it, the more its seems that him screwing things up with Susannah was a really important juncture...there was clearly a massive part of him that really didn't want to make a mess of it (and to confess my biases, I really rate Susannah, she is smart as a whip, incredibly astute, and talented, and seems very gentle, and very genuine, and he didn't (or she didn't let him) try and turn her into someone else to match some kind of fantasy of his...and she clearly loved him very very much, while not taking some of his bullshit...she was really a proper match for him I think, and his not marrying her was a major fuck up, and I think he knew it)...anyway, being P he just kept on rolling, but like I said upthread, I have a suspicion that that is when things started to unravel a bit...

It's my understanding that Prince may have thought he wanted an open relationship with Susannah, but in the end, couldn't bear the idea of her straying. It's also my understanding that Susannah never wanted an open relationship, and was hurt by all of Prince's cheating.

I share your bias about Susannah, and I loved hearing her recent interviews on the Current, Questlove's show, etc. Prince was amazing and had many amazing people in his life. This is obvious even to an outsider. It's sad knowing that Prince and many others went through so much hurt, but also good to hear many of these people relate moments of joy, transcedence, and just plain old fun.

I really appreciate your interest in Prince's inner life, which must have been fascinating and wonderful, given his performances, his words, his music. What you wrote on the guitar solo thread really resonates.

Thank you also for calling my attention back to Computer Blue. Those lyrics...wow.

Yeah, the lyrics are quite something...and the hallway speech, oh man....ouch. Thanks for your kind comments, and for appreciating my thoughts (um, obsession) with trying to work out the workings. He was an incredible human being, and I find thinking through the tensions and paradoxes pretty fascinating (for him, and also because I was once involved with a man (also an artist) who exhibited a pretty similar constellation...I suspect it's pretty common in artists). I think I'm particularly compelled in P's case by the relation/conflict between his incredible capacity for ecstasy and joy and movement, and emotional expression, and the simultaneous pain, loneliness, self-sabotage and repression, and how that played out in his life, and also in his death. There are very few people who can channel light the way P did - it was such an extraordinary gift - and who were also, in other ways, so closed and so dark. And in some ways I wonder if the intensity of his gift for light was borne out of the darkness he was always both escaping and (unconsciously) reproducing....

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

If he was really messing around with other women his entire life, I am surprised that we have not had a bunch of "my night..my week...my affair with prince" stories pop up,especially since his passing. You would think those stories would be worth some cash, and it is hard to believe that all of those many many many proported women would all be respecting his privacy, and that there were not some wanting to sell the stories?? Just does not make sense he could have been with so many women that at the very least did not want to brag about it. If you had been one of his women on the side, would you have kept it quiet for decades in some case?

Some things just belong to you.

jayseajay said:

Yeah, the lyrics are quite something...and the hallway speech, oh man....ouch. Thanks for your kind comments, and for appreciating my thoughts (um, obsession) with trying to work out the workings. He was an incredible human being, and I find thinking through the tensions and paradoxes pretty fascinating (for him, and also because I was once involved with a man (also an artist) who exhibited a pretty similar constellation...I suspect it's pretty common in artists). I think I'm particularly compelled in P's case by the relation/conflict between his incredible capacity for ecstasy and joy and movement, and emotional expression, and the simultaneous pain, loneliness, self-sabotage and repression, and how that played out in his life, and also in his death. There are very few people who can channel light the way P did - it was such an extraordinary gift - and who were also, in other ways, so closed and so dark. And in some ways I wonder if the intensity of his gift for light was borne out of the darkness he was always both escaping and (unconsciously) reproducing....

Good observation.

rednblue said:

luvgirl said:

rednblue said:

It's my understanding that Prince may have thought he wanted an open relationship with Susannah, but in the end, couldn't bear the idea of her straying. It's also my understanding that Susannah never wanted an open relationship, and was hurt by all of Prince's cheating.

I share your bias about Susannah, and I loved hearing her recent interviews on the Current, Questlove's show, etc. Prince was amazing and had many amazing people in his life. This is obvious even to an outsider. It's sad knowing that Prince and many others went through so much hurt, but also good to hear many of these people relate moments of joy, transcedence, and just plain old fun.

I really appreciate your interest in Prince's inner life, which must have been fascinating and wonderful, given his performances, his words, his music. What you wrote on the guitar solo thread really resonates.

Thank you also for calling my attention back to Computer Blue. Those lyrics...wow.

I don't think any one particular woman per say made Prince unravel. Prince had an unorthodox view of the accustomed measure of a traditional relationship from the beginning, which actively influenced his psyche and the tumultuous relationships he shared with all his women. The end of his relationship with Susan Moonsie, Vanity, Susannah Melvoin, Myte, just to name a few, was due to his unwillingness to conform to the natural standards of a normal relationship, and that was a part of his makeup and his own personality flaws that would eventually lead to his not having a long term bond with someone he loved. It was his own will to not be true to Susannah Melvoin, or marry her. The things I've read that he'd done to her shows that he did not love ANYONE nearly enough to be married at that time, which was a considerate action on his part... In regards to your comment about the open relationship with Susannah Melvoin, did you read that he approached her with the suggestion of an open relationship? I'm surprised. I have never read that. Prince was very one sided on that front with all his women. He was allowed to see as many women as he liked but they could not do the same.. He might not have wanted the normal standard, but he wanted a double standard. [Edited 2/10/17 6:08am]

people and their knowledge are surprising me every day ... just one out of ur post: what in the world is a NATURAL STANDARD when it comes 2 relationships and who is supposed to define what a NORMAL RELATIONSHIP is?

and where do u read all that stuff?

lemoncrush19 said:

luvgirl said:

lemoncrush19 said:

people and their knowledge are surprising me every day ... just one out of ur post: what in the world is a NATURAL STANDARD when it comes 2 relationships and who is supposed to define what a NORMAL RELATIONSHIP is?

and where do u read all that stuff?

You don't know what a normal relationship is? It's when a man doesn't cheat on you non stop. And I read this stuff the same place you get you're info from. You had an opinion didn't you? What exactly offended you in what I said? You think that Prince treated SM well? [Edited 2/10/17 8:21am]

I wouldn't have asked if I new the answer.
still my question is: what is a NATURAL STANDARD when it comes 2 relationships and who is supposed to define what a NORMAL RELATIONSHIP is?
hoped u could explain.

but now I have a 2nd question: where in my reply did u read I was offended by u?
well I'm not. not a little bit. don't worry. just curious.

lemoncrush19 said:

luvgirl said:

rednblue said:

It's my understanding that Prince may have thought he wanted an open relationship with Susannah, but in the end, couldn't bear the idea of her straying. It's also my understanding that Susannah never wanted an open relationship, and was hurt by all of Prince's cheating.

I share your bias about Susannah, and I loved hearing her recent interviews on the Current, Questlove's show, etc. Prince was amazing and had many amazing people in his life. This is obvious even to an outsider. It's sad knowing that Prince and many others went through so much hurt, but also good to hear many of these people relate moments of joy, transcedence, and just plain old fun.

I really appreciate your interest in Prince's inner life, which must have been fascinating and wonderful, given his performances, his words, his music. What you wrote on the guitar solo thread really resonates.

Thank you also for calling my attention back to Computer Blue. Those lyrics...wow.

I don't think any one particular woman per say made Prince unravel. Prince had an unorthodox view of the accustomed measure of a traditional relationship from the beginning, which actively influenced his psyche and the tumultuous relationships he shared with all his women. The end of his relationship with Susan Moonsie, Vanity, Susannah Melvoin, Myte, just to name a few, was due to his unwillingness to conform to the natural standards of a normal relationship, and that was a part of his makeup and his own personality flaws that would eventually lead to his not having a long term bond with someone he loved. It was his own will to not be true to Susannah Melvoin, or marry her. The things I've read that he'd done to her shows that he did not love ANYONE nearly enough to be married at that time, which was a considerate action on his part... In regards to your comment about the open relationship with Susannah Melvoin, did you read that he approached her with the suggestion of an open relationship? I'm surprised. I have never read that. Prince was very one sided on that front with all his women. He was allowed to see as many women as he liked but they could not do the same.. He might not have wanted the normal standard, but he wanted a double standard. [Edited 2/10/17 6:08am]

In my quest to be respectful, I've probably been overly careful about what I've said, and that made it come out in a convoluted way. I love and am eternally grateful for what Prince's art has given to my life, and the recency of his death weighs on me and many others.

I'm interested in Prince's life story, as I am in the life story of other great artists. It's a lot of things, including love of the music, and also my life experience. I know people, through work and through family, that feel deeply and uniquely. Their experiences of the terrible and the wonderful, among other things, resonate with the story of an artist like Prince.

Jayseajay -- if you see this, thank you for writing some things that resonated a lot with me. I know you didn't write them for that purpose : ) , but it means a lot to have some company with regard to some of this stuff. Thanks to others, too, who have made comments suggesting that they feel for those who endure inner lives that can be very light and very dark, who feel that many gifts can be born from such an inner life, and who don't mean the least bit of disrespect by honoring an honest story of someone who is imperfect, and therefore, human. I, for one, am very imperfect.

*To finally get to the open relationship topic of the thread and try to speak more clearly and plainly:

Prince very often (maybe always) appeared not able to handle open relationships. He wanted to stray, but he didn't want a woman straying. It seems that was exactly the way he was with Susannah. I haven't read anything to suggest he could bear the idea of her straying. An open relationship is not a one-way thing. It is a two-way street. Prince very often seemed to want a one-way steet. As far as I'm concerned, he had a big double standard.

Some people on this thread ask others, "Why so judgemental?" As for the thread topic of "Prince and open relationships," I don't know how it could be reasonably discussed without the basic concept that Prince very often wanted a relationship with one end open and one end closed.

Also, on this thread, people have asked how old some of us are. They have reminded us that, in different times and places, people were/are more free and could handle more freedom for their partners.

As I mentioned before, I'm 50. Some on this thread are older and have first-hand experience going farther back than mine. What experience I do have tells me that some times/places got more of that free love than others. : ) As I also mentioned before, I dated my husband for 16 years before I wanted to get married, so while there's much that I haven't experienced, I'm not exactly primed for judging in an only-believing-in-very-traditional-sorts-of-relationships way.

Just because Prince traveled more than many people and was around during some relatively free-love-friendly times doesn't mean that he himself was someone who could deal with partners who were free to stray and did so. If he wasn't comfortable with that, then he was like many, many other humans. : )

I obviously don't know about Prince's whole life, and I can't know for sure what was in his head. That's true even when his actions give us big suggestions. Even CatB, who has an infinitely greater perspective having known Prince, pointed out that she can't know exactly what was in his head. I am truly sorry if I was misleading by saying that Prince may have thought he wanted an open relationship with Susannah. I can't know 100%, but anything I've ever read strongly suggests that he wanted to be able to stray, but he could not handle her straying.

Also CatB (thank you for your generosity in what you've shared!) said that it might surprise a lot of people, when thinking about the thread topic and the ability of Prince to handle open relationships, to know about this as it relates to some of his life in Europe.

Thanks, all, and I'm very sorry for the confusing parts!

I wince when I see folks claim "P wanted to STRAY, blahblahblah".

Do I think P was a young guy with lotsa money/access/resources/opportunity/volunteers "DTF"? YUP.

Do I think P WANTED to STRAY or cheat or whatever? NOPE. I think P was young and had lotsa sexual opportunities being thrown in his path and wasn't as discerning as he could've been. I also think many/most of the young women he met, even having heard rumors about his fidelity, felt they had "magic p*ssy that he'd lose his soul inside of and he'd wife them up nicely when other gals had failed. But I've seen many interveiws where men say that until it's the "right gal", ALL p*ssy is the same no matter how acrobatic a gal may think she's being to keep a guy.

"Straying" or cheating is subjective. Humans have many relationships, not just sexual. Folks seem to be feeling several types of ways about women from P's past cuz it's assumed that as a man, he must be the problem cuz "he strayed" or "he cheated".

Am I the only one who can see that P, while certainly having many relationships (including some that may have overlapped), wasn't necessarily "straying" or "cheating"?

In addition, I know plenty of both males AND females who although they may be able to carry on multiple relationships at once, wouldn't want their partners to do the same. So what? It's human nature to be territorial.

Um. Here's why I keep saying the gals need to stop playing victim and take personal responsibility...Ok, they were young. So what? They were moving in grown folks' circles. They weren't minors. And I get so sick of folks looking back at decisions they made poorly and acting as if they wre somehow victimized. Then maybe they shoulda stayed their lil immature azzes at home instead of playing grownup. BooEffingHoo.

[Edited 2/10/17 15:59pm]

LBrent said:

I wince when I see folks claim "P wanted to STRAY, blahblahblah".

Do I think P was a young guy with lotsa money/access/resources/opportunity/volunteers "DTF"? YUP.

Do I think P WANTED to STRAY or cheat or whatever? NOPE. I think P was young and had lotsa sexual opportunities being thrown in his path and wasn't as discerning as he could've been. I also think many/most of the young women he met, even having heard rumors about his fidelity, felt they had "magic p*ssy that he'd lose his soul inside of and he'd wife them up nicely when other gals had failed. But I've seen many interveiws where men say that until it's the "right gal", ALL p*ssy is the same no matter how acrobatic a gal may think she's being to keep a guy.

"Straying" or cheating is subjective. Humans have many relationships, not just sexual. Folks seem to be feeling several types of ways about women from P's past cuz it's assumed that as a man, he must be the problem cuz "he strayed" or "he cheated".

Am I the only one who can see that P, while certainly having many relationships (including some that may have overlapped), wasn't necessarily "straying" or "cheating"?

In addition, I know plenty of both males AND females who although they may be able to carry on multiple relationships at once, wouldn't want their partners to do the same. So what? It's human nature to be territorial.

Um. Here's why I keep saying the gals need to stop playing victim and take personal responsibility...Ok, they were young. So what? They were moving in grown folks' circles. They weren't minors. And I get so sick of folks looking back at decisions they made poorly and acting as if they wre somehow victimized. Then maybe they shoulda stayed their lil immature azzes at home instead of playing grownup. BooEffingHoo.

[Edited 2/10/17 15:59pm]

No, you are not the only one. This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post in this thread

Mumio said:

LBrent said:

I wince when I see folks claim "P wanted to STRAY, blahblahblah".

Do I think P was a young guy with lotsa money/access/resources/opportunity/volunteers "DTF"? YUP.

Do I think P WANTED to STRAY or cheat or whatever? NOPE. I think P was young and had lotsa sexual opportunities being thrown in his path and wasn't as discerning as he could've been. I also think many/most of the young women he met, even having heard rumors about his fidelity, felt they had "magic p*ssy that he'd lose his soul inside of and he'd wife them up nicely when other gals had failed. But I've seen many interveiws where men say that until it's the "right gal", ALL p*ssy is the same no matter how acrobatic a gal may think she's being to keep a guy.

"Straying" or cheating is subjective. Humans have many relationships, not just sexual. Folks seem to be feeling several types of ways about women from P's past cuz it's assumed that as a man, he must be the problem cuz "he strayed" or "he cheated".

Am I the only one who can see that P, while certainly having many relationships (including some that may have overlapped), wasn't necessarily "straying" or "cheating"?

In addition, I know plenty of both males AND females who although they may be able to carry on multiple relationships at once, wouldn't want their partners to do the same. So what? It's human nature to be territorial.

Um. Here's why I keep saying the gals need to stop playing victim and take personal responsibility...Ok, they were young. So what? They were moving in grown folks' circles. They weren't minors. And I get so sick of folks looking back at decisions they made poorly and acting as if they wre somehow victimized. Then maybe they shoulda stayed their lil immature azzes at home instead of playing grownup. BooEffingHoo.

[Edited 2/10/17 15:59pm]

No, you are not the only one. This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post in this thread

I have read many of your posts and admire both of you as writers, LBrent and Mumio. Hopefully, that isn't bad news to you, but I'd understand you feeling that way.

Sometimes, Prince loved a woman and the woman loved him. At some point, both Prince and the woman had sex outside of the relationship, and both Prince and the woman expressed their hurt. I felt for them both.

However, I completely respect others looking at that same situation and emphasizing that we're talking about a grown woman and a grown man who were responsible for their actions. I respect those who say there was plenty of immaturity. I respect finding it beyond naive, and more like willfully ignorant, for either one to expect to be the only sexual partner. I respect someone who tires of seeing folks play the victim and not take responsibility for their actions. I respect someone who is sick of all the whining and says "BooEffingHoo" to them both.

Fame attracts people with questionable motivations, and I've no doubt there were women involved with Prince who, at best, had little of his interests at heart. Some women who up and pursue a rich and famous genius probably do think they are God's gift to men. As someone with a lot of insecurities, it's hard for me to imagine anyone, man or woman, being that egotistical. At the same time, I'm sure there are in fact many out there who think they have the magic (fill in letters for male/female) p**** .

I think there were women who dated Prince who loved him, who didn't have super unsavory motivations, and who weren't confused by the notion that they had the perfect p**** for P***** .

I think Prince, as you point out, had a ton of opportunities, including many women throwing themselves at him. I think many, many men in this situation would fool around and have a ball. I hope Prince did have a ball. He sure did work hard enough.

While some rock icons got high and passed around (not uncommonly underage) groupies after shows, Prince worked all night making music.

I adored Prince, and I'm happy he had many wonderful people in his camp. I hope they all had a blast.

rednblue said:

Mumio said:

No, you are not the only one. This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post in this thread

I have read many of your posts and admire both of you as writers, LBrent and Mumio. Hopefully, that isn't bad news to you, but I'd understand you feeling that way.

Sometimes, Prince loved a woman and the woman loved him. At some point, both Prince and the woman had sex outside of the relationship, and both Prince and the woman expressed their hurt. I felt for them both.

However, I completely respect others looking at that same situation and emphasizing that we're talking about a grown woman and a grown man who were responsible for their actions. I respect those who say there was plenty of immaturity. I respect finding it beyond naive, and more like willfully ignorant, for either one to expect to be the only sexual partner. I respect someone who tires of seeing folks play the victim and not take responsibility for their actions. I respect someone who is sick of all the whining and says "BooEffingHoo" to them both.

Fame attracts people with questionable motivations, and I've no doubt there were women involved with Prince who, at best, had little of his interests at heart. Some women who up and pursue a rich and famous genius probably do think they are God's gift to men. As someone with a lot of insecurities, it's hard for me to imagine anyone, man or woman, being that egotistical. At the same time, I'm sure there are in fact many out there who think they have the magic (fill in letters for male/female) p**** .

I think there were women who dated Prince who loved him, who didn't have super unsavory motivations, and who weren't confused by the notion that they had the perfect p**** for P***** .

I think Prince, as you point out, had a ton of opportunities, including many women throwing themselves at him. I think many, many men in this situation would fool around and have a ball. I hope Prince did have a ball. He sure did work hard enough.

While some rock icons got high and passed around (not uncommonly underage) groupies after shows, Prince worked all night making music.

I adored Prince, and I'm happy he had many wonderful people in his camp. I hope they all had a blast.

Thank y'all cuz I was starting to think I was in an alternate universe.

Honestly, I'm not even talking about gals who are looking to trap a rich celebrity, lotsa gals are out for the hot guy at the office or whatever...and even "everyday ordinary gals and guys" who think the cute guy or gal they're crushing on will be bae "if they ever get some of THIS right here!"

Heck, doesn't even necessarily mean full on "bumpin uglies"...I guarantee there's some religious virgin thinking if they just could tongue kiss their crush, it'll be a done deal. Human nature. Lol

And for cryin' out loud, I certainly hope everybody who was "getting up close and personal" with the purpleness, regardless of it was simply flirting or all the way to whatever your imagination can come up with...I hope everyone, in the quiet of their hearts, looks back and smiles fondly at the memory.

[Edited 2/10/17 22:37pm]

rednblue said:

Also CatB (thank you for your generosity in what you've shared!) said that it might surprise a lot of people, when thinking about the thread topic and the ability of Prince to handle open relationships, to know about this as it relates to some of his life in Europe.

Yep, especially the people who need to define everything. That's actually where all the confusion comes from.

LBrent said:

Do I think P WANTED to STRAY or cheat or whatever? NOPE. I think P was young and had lotsa sexual opportunities being thrown in his path and wasn't as discerning as he could've been. I also think many/most of the young women he met, even having heard rumors about his fidelity, felt they had "magic p*ssy that he'd lose his soul inside of and he'd wife them up nicely when other gals had failed.

Really? Which one felt that way?

LBrent said:

"Straying" or cheating is subjective. Humans have many relationships, not just sexual. Folks seem to be feeling several types of ways about women from P's past cuz it's assumed that as a man, he must be the problem cuz "he strayed" or "he cheated".

Am I the only one who can see that P, while certainly having many relationships (including some that may have overlapped), wasn't necessarily "straying" or "cheating"?

Straying or cheating are judgemental terms by people who need to define everything. Things just are. Love is never exclusive. If you love only one and want to be loved by one only, that's not love, it's fear. This loving only one and the jealousy game are ego and the ego doesn't know how to love. P was so much more. Of course from the outside it must look like cheating, straying or whatever terms people need to explain something they don't understand. P really had love for all of us and he had a way of making you feel special as he knew everything about you and when you were there you had all his focus. Of course he was territorial and didn't want you to have others on your mind. That was his fear of abandonment again. Another reason for having many girls in his life.

And with the exception of some girls his "cheating" or "straying" was not even the reason for their leaving. It was his temper, his mind games and his wanting you to live your whole life under his control. Everyone has free will and sooner or later this will break free again, no matter how sweet the fruits in the gilded cage are. Ironically P (subsconsciously?) picked all women who were free spirits and head-strong. One of my personal unanswered questions will always be how we got together with someone so incompatible in the first place

LBrent said:

And for cryin' out loud, I certainly hope everybody who was "getting up close and personal" with the purpleness, regardless of it was simply flirting or all the way to whatever your imagination can come up with...I hope everyone, in the quiet of their hearts, looks back and smiles fondly at the memory.

You bet!

CatB said:

Straying or cheating are judgemental terms by people who need to define everything. Things just are. Love is never exclusive. If you love only one and want to be loved by one only, that's not love, it's fear. This loving only one and the jealousy game are ego and the ego doesn't know how to love. P was so much more. Of course from the outside it must look like cheating, straying or whatever terms people need to explain something they don't understand. P really had love for all of us and he had a way of making you feel special as he knew everything about you and when you were there you had all his focus. Of course he was territorial and didn't want you to have others on your mind. That was his fear of abandonment again. Another reason for having many girls in his life.

And with the exception of some girls his "cheating" or "straying" was not even the reason for their leaving. It was his temper, his mind games and his wanting you to live your whole life under his control. Everyone has free will and sooner or later this will break free again, no matter how sweet the fruits in the gilded cage are. Ironically P (subsconsciously?) picked all women who were free spirits and head-strong. One of my personal unanswered questions will always be how we got together with someone so incompatible in the first place

wow. probably the wisest words I've been reading on this board. TY
that kind of not-judging, not-labeling but taking things and people as they are without expectations and conditions leads to understanding on a higher level and is applicable to any situation in life.

LBrent said:

Do I think P WANTED to STRAY or cheat or whatever? NOPE. I think P was young and had lotsa sexual opportunities being thrown in his path and wasn't as discerning as he could've been. I also think many/most of the young women he met, even having heard rumors about his fidelity, felt they had "magic p*ssy that he'd lose his soul inside of and he'd wife them up nicely when other gals had failed.

Really? Which one felt that way?

Honestly, I don't know, but whenever I hear Orgers defend gals who P had previously been linked with, that's what I get. A gal who's disatistified by the way things went/didn't go, and the recourse of choice seems to be to blame P for "straying/cheating".

What I find hilarious is my own righteous indignation over whatever these gals said about P's role was in their disatisfaction.

I can't help it, as a fan I've been defending his lil complicated purple self for years. Gah!

CatB said:

Straying or cheating are judgemental terms by people who need to define everything. Things just are. Love is never exclusive. If you love only one and want to be loved by one only, that's not love, it's fear. This loving only one and the jealousy game are ego and the ego doesn't know how to love. P was so much more. Of course from the outside it must look like cheating, straying or whatever terms people need to explain something they don't understand. P really had love for all of us and he had a way of making you feel special as he knew everything about you and when you were there you had all his focus. Of course he was territorial and didn't want you to have others on your mind. That was his fear of abandonment again. Another reason for having many girls in his life.

Well, I agree with your comment about some folks' need to define...However, in my experience I've found defining, especially parameters and limits, to be quite valuable...for safety.

Just sayin'

LBrent said:

And for cryin' out loud, I certainly hope everybody who was "getting up close and personal" with the purpleness, regardless of it was simply flirting or all the way to whatever your imagination can come up with...I hope everyone, in the quiet of their hearts, looks back and smiles fondly at the memory.

CatB said:

You bet!

Next time, have an appreciative chuckle for me.

rednblue said:

Mumio said:

No, you are not the only one. This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post in this thread

I have read many of your posts and admire both of you as writers, LBrent and Mumio. Hopefully, that isn't bad news to you, but I'd understand you feeling that way.

Sometimes, Prince loved a woman and the woman loved him. At some point, both Prince and the woman had sex outside of the relationship, and both Prince and the woman expressed their hurt. I felt for them both.

However, I completely respect others looking at that same situation and emphasizing that we're talking about a grown woman and a grown man who were responsible for their actions. I respect those who say there was plenty of immaturity. I respect finding it beyond naive, and more like willfully ignorant, for either one to expect to be the only sexual partner. I respect someone who tires of seeing folks play the victim and not take responsibility for their actions. I respect someone who is sick of all the whining and says "BooEffingHoo" to them both.

Fame attracts people with questionable motivations, and I've no doubt there were women involved with Prince who, at best, had little of his interests at heart. Some women who up and pursue a rich and famous genius probably do think they are God's gift to men. As someone with a lot of insecurities, it's hard for me to imagine anyone, man or woman, being that egotistical. At the same time, I'm sure there are in fact many out there who think they have the magic (fill in letters for male/female) p**** .

I think there were women who dated Prince who loved him, who didn't have super unsavory motivations, and who weren't confused by the notion that they had the perfect p**** for P***** .

I think Prince, as you point out, had a ton of opportunities, including many women throwing themselves at him. I think many, many men in this situation would fool around and have a ball. I hope Prince did have a ball. He sure did work hard enough.

While some rock icons got high and passed around (not uncommonly underage) groupies after shows, Prince worked all night making music.

I adored Prince, and I'm happy he had many wonderful people in his camp. I hope they all had a blast.

LBrent, lemoncrush19, Mumio, CatB -- You are all really cool.

Honesty calls me to note (since I know I'm not exciting enough that people will be all about committing my posts to memory : ) ), that I was one of the ones to use the word "strayed" in an earlier post. I replaced it with "had sex outside of the relationship" in this (above) post:

"Sometimes, Prince loved a woman and the woman loved him. At some point, both Prince and the woman had sex outside of the relationship, and both Prince and the woman expressed their hurt. I felt for them both."

I truly felt sad for both of them. That's what tugs at my heart in those cases, not some snooty judgement of Prince, or of the woman. And it's much happier for me to think of the fun these people had. I hope they had tons more fun that people like me don't even know about.

"Judgemental" also describes one of my pet peeves, and I appreciate what was said about our own indignation, 'cause I sure feel that rising in me plenty. : ) I also try not to pre-judge, but I'm far from perfect.

And oh boy, with words, I feel like, it's can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

We need definitions, we need a vocabulary, but words, or maybe sometimes it's the connotations attached to words/phrases, can play into a situation that stinks.

NO blame at all on the OP here. The OP had to use words. I can just see that the topic of the thread, "Prince and open relationships," like other topics, can end up with people getting upset. People often look to the most common definition of "open relationships." They have to use some sort of definition of that phrase for the thread to have any meaning in the first place. We have to have some common take on the defintion/connotation of words/phrases. If we didn't, we couldn't use words to communicate. At the same time, words/phrases and defintions/connotations can make all kinds of mess.

Words and their lil complicated selves...

I'm crazy in love with words and with P. : )

Also, thank you again, CatB. It means so much when you share things like this:

P really had love for all of us and he had a way of making you feel special as he knew everything about you and when you were there you had all his focus. Of course he was territorial and didn't want you to have others on your mind. That was his fear of abandonment again. Another reason for having many girls in his life.

And with the exception of some girls his "cheating" or "straying" was not even the reason for their leaving. It was his temper, his mind games and his wanting you to live your whole life under his control. Everyone has free will and sooner or later this will break free again, no matter how sweet the fruits in the gilded cage are. Ironically P (subsconsciously?) picked all women who were free spirits and head-strong. One of my personal unanswered questions will always be how we got together with someone so incompatible in the first place

rednblue said:

"Sometimes, Prince loved a woman and the woman loved him. At some point, both Prince and the woman had sex outside of the relationship, and both Prince and the woman expressed their hurt. I felt for them both."

I truly felt sad for both of them. That's what tugs at my heart in those cases, not some snooty judgement of Prince, or of the woman. And it's much happier for me to think of the fun these people had. I hope they had tons more fun that people like me don't even know about.

Chiiiiile, puhleez...My comments weren't directed at you or anyone else in particular. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last, that this discussion has gone on so don't feel bad.

YupYup and Yup...words are tricky. Some days there simply isn't enough chocoate in the pantry.

I've never been in love with him, but I feelya on loving P...But sometimes, just sometimes...Thinking about some of his more crazymaking decisions and life choices, I just wanna bop him really good upside the back of his stubborn head.

I wouldn't really have, but still...Lol

[Edited 2/11/17 6:57am]

LBrent said:

rednblue said:

"Sometimes, Prince loved a woman and the woman loved him. At some point, both Prince and the woman had sex outside of the relationship, and both Prince and the woman expressed their hurt. I felt for them both."

I truly felt sad for both of them. That's what tugs at my heart in those cases, not some snooty judgement of Prince, or of the woman. And it's much happier for me to think of the fun these people had. I hope they had tons more fun that people like me don't even know about.

Chiiiiile, puhleez...My comments weren't directed at you or anyone else in particular. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last, that this discussion has gone on so don't feel bad.

YupYup and Yup...words are tricky. Some days there simply isn't enough chocoate in the pantry.

I've never been in love with him, but I feelya on loving P...But sometimes, just sometimes...Thinking about some of his more crazymaking decisions and life choices, I just wanna bop him really good upside the back of his stubborn head.

I wouldn't really have, but still...Lol

[Edited 2/11/17 6:57am]

Thanks. And I also hear you that there are people out there who think "my hot little self is God's gift to..." If someone's got that attitude, they are no doubt more likely than most to try something wild like going for a rock star.

I only bring this up because my tendency to lose the chill (that you picked up on), and my tendency to see ugly when looking in the mirror (despite my man giving that the lie--so I guess I'm yet another short, complicated pile of contradictions : ) ) make it easy for me to forget that people with such serene and supreme confidence even exist.

I wish life had brought you and Prince together in person. You would have been great for him, and he would have loved it!

Hope you have a good weekend that includes some fun hanging out and chilling out. : )

[Edited 2/11/17 7:34am]

[Edited 2/11/17 7:36am]

LBrent said:

Well, I agree with your comment about some folks' need to define...However, in my experience I've found defining, especially parameters and limits, to be quite valuable...for safety.

Just sayin'

I see

LBrent said:

Next time, have an appreciative chuckle for me.

Sure thing

LBrent said:

Thinking about some of his more crazymaking decisions and life choices, I just wanna bop him really good upside the back of his stubborn head.

I wouldn't really have, but still...Lol

Yeah, I know the feeling...

rednblue said:

LBrent, lemoncrush19, Mumio, CatB -- You are all really cool.

We're all still learning.

rednblue said:

And oh boy, with words, I feel like, it's can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

We need definitions, we need a vocabulary, but words, or maybe sometimes it's the connotations attached to words/phrases, can play into a situation that stinks.

I hear ya. In my experience definitions don't make life easier, though. They make it narrow and tend to create problems.

rednblue said:

LBrent said:

[Edited 2/11/17 6:57am]

Thanks. And I also hear you that there are people out there who think "my hot little self is God's gift to..." If someone's got that attitude, they are no doubt more likely than most to try something wild like going for a rock star. Or some dentist or a well-off cute plumber...

I only bring this up because my tendency to lose the chill (that you picked up on), and my tendency to see ugly when looking in the mirror (despite my man giving that the lie--so I guess I'm yet another short, complicated pile of contradictions : ) ) make it easy for me to forget that people with such serene and supreme confidence even exist. Oooooooh, darlin', serene and supreme confidence...Hmmm...Ok, I dunno about all dat in my case, but I want you to stop saying that about you. Being a "hot lil self" or whatever has less to do with looks, body size, etc...I dunno about the rest but I do know I'm sexy, that's all I can truly tellya from many years of being told that. Lol

Hell, P was cute, but he was quirky, oddly old-fashioned in some ways and antiquated in others, but he was a "sexy lil purple self".

I wish life had brought you and Prince together in person. You would have been great for him, and he would have loved it! Um. Thanks, but no. I've been offered opportunities to be places where that could've happened but as nosey as I am about him, I have actively avoided any chance to actually meet him.

Hope you have a good weekend that includes some fun hanging out and chilling out. : ) We had a huge snowfall here in NY so I'm definitely "chill".

[Edited 2/11/17 7:34am]

[Edited 2/11/17 7:36am]

CatB said:

I hear ya. In my experience definitions don't make life easier, though. They make it narrow and tend to create problems.

And I hear you on the narrow, and the problems. There's a phrase that's been on my mind that, in and of itself, communicates a simple thing about a person, a thing that shouldn't lend itself to judging.

But, as happens a lot with words, the phrase is often uttered in a way that connects it with a bunch of unwarranted assumptions. I guess that's the way prejudice works.

I think the biggest truths come from bearing in mind that, by definition, every individual person has a unique story. Those truths are easily lost to narrowing.

So it seems like a lot of good could come out of people (me at the top of the list, of course) staying in touch with how little they might know about another person, even a person they've spent a lot of time with. If someone chooses to open up and show more, then that's a gift. Getting back to Prince, I know next to nothing compared to what there is to know, but I am grateful for the purple in this world.

[Edited 2/11/17 14:19pm]

LBrent said:

rednblue said:

Thanks. And I also hear you that there are people out there who think "my hot little self is God's gift to..." If someone's got that attitude, they are no doubt more likely than most to try something wild like going for a rock star. Or some dentist or a well-off cute plumber...

I only bring this up because my tendency to lose the chill (that you picked up on), and my tendency to see ugly when looking in the mirror (despite my man giving that the lie--so I guess I'm yet another short, complicated pile of contradictions : ) ) make it easy for me to forget that people with such serene and supreme confidence even exist. Oooooooh, darlin', serene and supreme confidence...Hmmm...Ok, I dunno about all dat in my case, but I want you to stop saying that about you. Being a "hot lil self" or whatever has less to do with looks, body size, etc...I dunno about the rest but I do know I'm sexy, that's all I can truly tellya from many years of being told that. Lol

Hell, P was cute, but he was quirky, oddly old-fashioned in some ways and antiquated in others, but he was a "sexy lil purple self".

I wish life had brought you and Prince together in person. You would have been great for him, and he would have loved it! Um. Thanks, but no. I've been offered opportunities to be places where that could've happened but as nosey as I am about him, I have actively avoided any chance to actually meet him.

Hope you have a good weekend that includes some fun hanging out and chilling out. : ) We had a huge snowfall here in NY so I'm definitely "chill".

[Edited 2/11/17 7:34am]

[Edited 2/11/17 7:36am]

I just know you're sexy. Here I go, shooting off with the assumptions and prejudice again, but this time I know it. You are sexy! : )

In case it was confusing, I didn't mean to presumptuously say that you have "serene and supreme confidence." I meant to refer to the ones you described as getting involved with P and thinking that they had such gorgeousness that P would lose himself in the perfection of it all. : ) That's the mentality so foreign to me that I can forget it exists. But to be at all reasonable when thinking about a rock star, it's good to be reminded that some of the people who pursued him might have seen things this way.

Thank you for what you wrote about hotness, and for this great sentence:

"Hell, P was cute, but he was quirky, oddly old-fashioned in some ways and antiquated in others, but he was a "sexy lil purple self"."

P's outer beauty was drool-worthy (and, of course, a larger part of what made his appearance was outer melded with inner beauty--movement, expression, looks that showed how he loved to laugh, etc.), and I think he was also really smart about how beauty works. I think it was talking to Tavis, he said that the sexy stuff is in your mind. He knew that "less to do with looks" wisdom you wrote of. It's wisdom to have front and center, and I love the way you expressed it.

P was gorgeous, but the hottest part of his sizzle was the way that beautiful mind of his worked his gorgeousness.

OK, I'm off with a reminder for a couple hot plumbers I know: be discerning when folks pop up with an interest in your...er...plumbing.

[Edited 2/11/17 10:25am]

rednblue said:

LBrent said:

I just know you're sexy. Here I go, shooting off with the assumptions and prejudice again, but this time I know it. You are sexy! : )

In case it was confusing, I didn't mean to presumptuously say that you have "serene and supreme confidence." I meant to refer to the ones you described as getting involved with P and thinking that they had such gorgeousness that P would lose himself in the perfection of it all. : ) That's the mentality so foreign to me that I can forget it exists. But to be at all reasonable when thinking about a rock star, it's good to be reminded that some of the people who pursued him might have seen things this way.

Thank you for what you wrote about hotness, and for this great sentence:

"Hell, P was cute, but he was quirky, oddly old-fashioned in some ways and antiquated in others, but he was a "sexy lil purple self"."

P's outer beauty was drool-worthy (and, of course, a larger part of what made his appearance was outer melded with inner beauty--movement, expression, looks that showed how he loved to laugh, etc.), and I think he was also really smart about how beauty works. I think it was talking to Tavis, he said that the sexy stuff is in your mind. He knew that "less to do with looks" wisdom you wrote of. It's wisdom to have front and center, and I love the way you expressed it.

P was gorgeous, but the hottest part of his sizzle was the way that beautiful mind of his worked his gorgeousness.

OK, I'm off with a reminder for a couple hot plumbers I know: be discerning when folks pop up with an interest in your...er...plumbing.

[Edited 2/11/17 10:25am]

Nope, it's not a gorgeousness thing, heck, it's simply the feeling in your head that if this person I'm crushing on ever gets a sample of my "goodies" they'll be so hooked they'll make me theirs forever. Guys think this way, too. And it doesn't always mean actual intercourse, it can mean whatever they feel their strongest talent is...It could be P thinking, "Yeah, if she hears me sing that reeeaaally high note in EndorphineMachine...!" or a skilled carpenter thinking, "Yeah, just wait until she/he sees my sanding technique and how that hardwood will be as smooth as glass!"

See?

For the record, I'm average looking...but sexy has nothingg to do with looks. There are good looking folks who ain't sexy. Sexy is something else.

[Edited 2/11/17 13:12pm]

Women came to him.

2freaky4church1 said:

Women came to him.

Yes. I'll ask her to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe LBrent was describing an attitude with which some might approach Prince. I believe she was describing people who might think they were going to snag Prince for good, based on a talent that is really great (e.g. a talent as great as Prince's music abilities), or a talent perceived to be great.

She definitely got my number with the Endorphinmachine example. I love that song!

paisleypearl said:

Open relationships would make sense if there was no such thing as unplanned pregnancy or aids or hep c or papilloma virus or cervical cancer or herpes etc etc etc. This new age-y stuff sounds self destructive to me but I'm sure it comes in handy when a commitment is not in our life so we might tend to be a little defensive or deliberately vague (mysterious) and tight lipped, especially if we got something lots of other folks want. And it's not like New Age isn't filled with a bunch of New "rules". Pretending to know someone's value system after a short affair? Ummm no.

^^^THIS!!!^^^

CatB said:

anangellooksdown said:

This reminds me of him telling Judith Hill that he wanted to take up all of her time. I think this was part of the "intensity" women talked about when describing their relationships with him. All the way back to Vanity saying that she and Prince were once so close it was scary. I think he drank you up, focused on you, gave you all he had, even worshipped you, and I think if you didn't want to live forever entirely in his world and you left, those abandonment fears would kick in. This is sooooo common. Most people are like this; they just don't get talked about as much. If this is the case, he might've not really known this about himself. Especially when it was happening.

This made me think of how Morris Hayes described P as being an "all in type of brotha".

Sorta like when he was making movies...that was his interest at the time and he threw himself into writing, directing, acting...Sometimes with better results than other times...But I get the feeling P was giving his all, regardless of how things ended.

Even in other relationships, I think P fell off the balcony and lost himself in whomever was the "project" at the time.

He was sorta like a quasar...I laughed at the definition when comparing it to P.