RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

imprimis said:

.

Well, even in the Dreams script, she does sing at the piano during this sequence. I didn't mean to suggest it was strictly an instrumental. Part of a cheesy unrequited love Jill - Prince subplot eliminated from the final film. It's most likely about 15 to 20 seconds of badly acted/lipsync'ed 'fake live' playback, with a prerecorded vocal and piano bit, leading into an extended dialog as Prince walks in with his famous shades. (If she sang it live, the vocal would probably have been ADR'ed, had it survived it into late post-production, so same result at the end of the day).

.

The scene in the released film begins just shortly after this cut segment. I believe you can even briefy see the piano in the reflection in P's sunglasses if you pay close enough attention.

.

(What I am saying is that 'Wednesday' isn't likely an outtake in the sense of being a full-length studio production that might have ended up on an album)

.

An extended version of the film would be interesting; I'm quite certain that more than one transfer workprint exists in the director's and also in private hands (which may well have the missing scenes from the trailer and LGC video, among other extended takes), but some of the choicest deleted sequences and excerpts were eliminated early in editing (the barn, Brownmark's lines, the froufrou'ed dog/extras, etc), or were never used at all, and most or all of the original negatives and sound elements are believed to have been discarded during editing or destroyed in the late 1980s to clear space in the storage archives.

.

[Edited 2/9/17 13:25pm]

Didn't Wednesday appear on a tentative Purple Rain configuration at one point?

.

Bald rumor from the past claimed that a late 1983 acetate early configuration of the album existed, which included 'Wednesday', but that seems to have been discredited more recently. I personally am not going to pay much mind to PrinceVault's furtherance of that rumor. (The date attribution is November 1983. There may have been some demonstration cassette or pressing of his own material submitted for use with the film project, assembled for rehearsal and logistic reasons shortly before filming, but as a seriously considered album arrangement seems strained for credibility; the circulating 'uncut' versions of 'I Would Die 4 U' and 'Baby, I'm A Star' may have been sourced from this)

.

I believe the limited information regarding outtake material from this era, which may well reflect the limited amount of such material altogether, has stoked unrealistic expectations for this song.

.

If we get any truly rare, previously completely unknown studio material as part of any Purple Rain-related release from the Estate, I'm fearful that it will end up being era-inaccurate (comparable to what Sony did with the version of 'For All Time' that appears on Thriller 25, which is a heavily reworked 1988-90 version of that track)-- probably unknown 1983, pre-PR material, or unknown 1984, post-PR, which is wonderful to have, no doubt, but problematic if pawned off as true PR outtakes.

.

There are of course alternate and extended takes, and demos at multiple stages of development, for the songs we are well aware of. And uncirculating live or rehearsal soundboard and professionally filmed recordings. And 'Electric Intercourse', and maybe underwhelming sterile studio piano/instrumental tracks for 'Father's Song' and 'Wednesday'. 'G-Spot' is mentioned in Dreams. A studio instrumental of 'Purple Rain' in the film that is likely a recycled, but more or less fully developed track. 'Traffic Jam' and a bassline mix of WDC. 'Love & Sex #1' is from the same studio time as TJ & WDC, but has nothing to do with PR. And there are probably a very small handful of songs of his own whose titles or existence we never knew of. Most of the PR-era outtake material, outside of the above, would likely be partially completed Ice Cream Castles outtakes, the rest of the Modernaires album (although he had virtually or literally no stake in it; a full set was performed as an opening act for Billy Idol in 1984), and unused Vanity 6 second album/Apollonia 6 material.

.

There is, however, a small abundance of pre-PR 1983 material, some of which may have been presented to Magnoli as part of the famous 'hundreds of songs'. Lisa Coleman composed or recorded musical cues for the film that went unused, except for one reinterpreted by Michel Colombier and used towards the end of the film (she isn't specific where; based on the description, perhaps the scene in which he assaults Apollonia under the bridge, or when he encounters a riveted crowd and an emotional Jill between 'Purple Rain' and 'I Would Die 4 U'; she could also be talking about the theme played during the IDS Center scene, among others, that is based on the arpeggiated 'Purple Rain' chords ).

.

(Susan Rogers loosely reckons a less overdubbed 'Wonderful Ass' as a PR outtake, but it is more properly just another unexamined post-1999 1983 track that was previewed among several dozen others to Magnoli, that languished before being reworked by W&L in 1985-86, perhaps during the same studio time that yielded the embellished 'All My Dreams', 'Strange Relationship', 'Teacher, Teacher', etc.)

.

[Edited 2/9/17 15:58pm]

imprimis said:

dance4me3121 said:

imprimis said:

.

A new alternate opening to "Under the cherry moon" surfaced recently.Believed to have been put out by the estae.maybe they have deleted scenes from Purple Rain also

.

Yes, although probably workprint-transfer sourced.

.

imprimis said:

dance4me3121 said:

imprimis said: A new alternate opening to "Under the cherry moon" surfaced recently.Believed to have been put out by the estae.maybe they have deleted scenes from Purple Rain also

.

Yes, although probably workprint-transfer sourced.

.

but you know a key sequence of PR was lost and they had to use a work print for the final movie... I think it was a part in the Kid's room with apples...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

imprimis said:

.

Yes, although probably workprint-transfer sourced.

.

but you know a key sequence of PR was lost and they had to use a work print for the final movie... I think it was a part in the Kid's room with apples...

.

Yes, that is true. Which serves to illustrate that the trims were being discarded throughout the editing process.

.

I wouldn't be so optimistic as to the completeness or visual quality of 33+ year-old footage, which would most likely be sourced from an editor's or assistant director's Betamax or VHS transfer of a workprint, rather than the workprint celluloid itself; in either case, anticipate a degraded or limited viewing.

.

Given the questionable acting talents of the films' billed players, and the general corniess and silliness of an early 1980s musical film that would be lost on modern audiences, this probably will not be the Estate's highest priority in locating and liberating for public view, as there is limited interest and they have an iconic legacy to preserve.

.

The plot absurdism created by removing the drama and cutting to the music was and is, unfortunately, the sensible decision to make.

.

[Edited 2/9/17 17:55pm]

imprimis said:

RaspBerryGirlFriend said:

imprimis said: Didn't Wednesday appear on a tentative Purple Rain configuration at one point?

.

Bald rumor from the past claimed that a late 1983 acetate early configuration of the album existed, which included 'Wednesday', but that seems to have been discredited more recently. I personally am not going to pay much mind to PrinceVault's furtherance of that rumor. (The date attribution is November 1983. There may have been some demonstration cassette or pressing of his own material submitted for use with the film project, assembled for rehearsal and logistic reasons shortly before filming, but as a seriously considered album arrangement seems strained for credibility; the circulating 'uncut' versions of 'I Would Die 4 U' and 'Baby, I'm A Star' may have been sourced from this)

.

I believe the limited information regarding outtake material from this era, which may well reflect the limited amount of such material altogether, has stoked unrealistic expectations for this song.

.

If we get any truly rare, previously completely unknown studio material as part of any Purple Rain-related release from the Estate, I'm fearful that it will end up being era-inaccurate (comparable to what Sony did with the version of 'For All Time' that appears on Thriller 25, which is a heavily reworked 1988-90 version of that track)-- probably unknown 1983, pre-PR material, or unknown 1984, post-PR, which is wonderful to have, no doubt, but problematic if pawned off as true PR outtakes.

.

There are of course alternate and extended takes, and demos at multiple stages of development, for the songs we are well aware of. And uncirculating live or rehearsal soundboard and professionally filmed recordings. And 'Electric Intercourse', and maybe underwhelming sterile studio piano/instrumental tracks for 'Father's Song' and 'Wednesday'. 'G-Spot' is mentioned in Dreams. A studio instrumental of 'Purple Rain' in the film that is likely a recycled, but more or less fully developed track. 'Traffic Jam' and a bassline mix of WDC. 'Love & Sex #1' is from the same studio time as TJ & WDC, but has nothing to do with PR. And there are probably a very small handful of songs of his own whose titles or existence we never knew of. Most of the PR-era outtake material, outside of the above, would likely be partially completed Ice Cream Castles outtakes, the rest of the Modernaires album (although he had virtually or literally no stake in it; a full set was performed as an opening act for Billy Idol in 1984), and unused Vanity 6 second album/Apollonia 6 material.

.

There is, however, a small abundance of pre-PR 1983 material, some of which may have been presented to Magnoli as part of the famous 'hundreds of songs'. Lisa Coleman composed or recorded musical cues for the film that went unused, except for one reinterpreted by Michel Colombier and used towards the end of the film (she isn't specific where; based on the description, perhaps the scene in which he assaults Apollonia under the bridge, or when he encounters a riveted crowd and an emotional Jill between 'Purple Rain' and 'I Would Die 4 U'; she could also be talking about the theme played during the IDS Center scene, among others, that is based on the arpeggiated 'Purple Rain' chords ).

.

(Susan Rogers loosely reckons a less overdubbed 'Wonderful Ass' as a PR outtake, but it is more properly just another unexamined post-1999 1983 track that was previewed among several dozen others to Magnoli, that languished before being reworked by W&L in 1985-86, perhaps during the same studio time that yielded the embellished 'All My Dreams', 'Strange Relationship', 'Teacher, Teacher', etc.)

.

[Edited 2/9/17 15:58pm]

Ah okay, cheers, thanks a lot for this incredibly in-depth reply, really appreciate the level of knowledge you bring to these threads

imprimis said:

dance4me3121 said:

To Imprimis- are you joking? This is the Purple Rain movie.the movie that made Prince a mega star.I'm sure many would love to see the deleted purple rain footage.you know eventually Purple rain will get a re-release.I'm sure they would be a nice addition. If the estate can post a clip of the alternate opening to under the cherry moon (a film that was a flop) then I'm sure the estate can post or better yet sale the deleted scenes from purple rain (a film that was a major success).

.

Well, a lot of the acting is so B- and D-List grade, that I am not certain they would want to cast additional unflattering light on that. Certainly not as part of the first posthumous releases pertaining to this era, even at the risk of disappointing (or antagonizing) older, long-term fans.

.

The film simply isn't great cinema, massive box office success or not; they can't change what it is, but they can refrain from potentially undermining its iconicity.

.

The acting was a large part of how the footage got eliminated (or not even spliced into the workprint) in the first place, which made the commercially shrewd decision to pare down the rest of the film and cut to the musical performances as quickly as possible even easier.

.

And something risque like the barn scene will never see an officially sanctioned release, at least in its entirety.

.

When I say the 'interest isn't there', I refer both to general public, and especially the commercial interests of the Estate/WB--from their accountants' perspective, the potential market who buy these types of releases will buy them in large enough quantity without the need to locate and put together an extensive reel of this particular footage; they don't need to overexert themselves to get enough bites and hit the sales metrics they are seeking.

.

That said, I'm confident we'll get some outtake/deleted footage, as a bonus to a future PR Blu-ray, but nothing too esoteric or juicy, knowing all that is hypothetically out there.

.

This is truly more a cynical view of the inevitable financial considerations, rather than to suggest that there aren't myriad eager fans with an appetite for these rareties. Those myriad eager fans are still only a limited subset of the presumptive marketplace, and most of them will still buy even without such carefully curated extras.

.

The bonus/featurette-type material will likely be focused mainly with how this pop phenomenon film and project were made, in a documentary/interview style, more elaborately than on the 2004 DVD release. Might get some rehearsal snippets or previously unseen on-set photographs.

.

[Edited 2/10/17 4:40am]

"oh my la di da da...."

"Wally....where'd you get those glasses?"

"Those are the freakiest glasses I've ever seen..."

J-

Styles said:

"oh my la di da da...."

"Wally....where'd you get those glasses?"

"Those are the freakiest glasses I've ever seen..."

J-

.

injuredpinky said:

Styles said:

"oh my la di da da...."

"Wally....where'd you get those glasses?"

"Those are the freakiest glasses I've ever seen..."

J-

.

haha well my tangent was because it was the same 3 hour pod cast in which she says he made a cassette copy before erasing the masters in which she mentioned the PR special edition and that Jill sang in the movie....i guess i should have put it in the one about the PR SE

OnlyNDaUsa said:

haha well my tangent was because it was the same 3 hour pod cast in which she says he made a cassette copy before erasing the masters in which she mentioned the PR special edition and that Jill sang in the movie....i guess i should have put it in the one about the PR SE

.

Ah no worries. PR SE is always a worthy topic.

injuredpinky said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

haha well my tangent was because it was the same 3 hour pod cast in which she says he made a cassette copy before erasing the masters in which she mentioned the PR special edition and that Jill sang in the movie....i guess i should have put it in the one about the PR SE

.

Ah no worries. PR SE is always a worthy topic.

oh think this... get George Lucas to add a CGI band and maybe a new band member Jar Jar Finks

dance4me3121 said:

imprimis said:

.

Well, even in the Dreams script, she does sing at the piano during this sequence. I didn't mean to suggest it was strictly an instrumental. Part of a cheesy unrequited love Jill - Prince subplot eliminated from the final film. It's most likely about 15 to 20 seconds of badly acted/lipsync'ed 'fake live' playback, with a prerecorded vocal and piano bit, leading into an extended dialog as Prince walks in with his famous shades. (If she sang it live, the vocal would probably have been ADR'ed, had it survived it into late post-production, so same result at the end of the day).

.

The scene in the released film begins just shortly after this cut segment. I believe you can even briefy see the piano in the reflection in P's sunglasses if you pay close enough attention.

.

(What I am saying is that 'Wednesday' isn't likely an outtake in the sense of being a full-length studio production that might have ended up on an album)

.

An extended version of the film would be interesting; I'm quite certain that more than one transfer workprint exists in the director's and also in private hands (which may well have the missing scenes from the trailer and LGC video, among other extended takes), but some of the choicest deleted sequences and excerpts were eliminated early in editing (the barn, Brownmark's lines, the froufrou'ed dog/extras, etc), or were never used at all, and most or all of the original negatives and sound elements are believed to have been discarded during editing or destroyed in the late 1980s to clear space in the storage archives.

.

[Edited 2/9/17 13:25pm]

A new alternate opening to "Under the cherry moon" surfaced recently.Believed to have been put out by the estae.maybe they have deleted scenes from Purple Rain also

Believed by whom? On which grounds?

databank said:

dance4me3121 said:

imprimis said: A new alternate opening to "Under the cherry moon" surfaced recently.Believed to have been put out by the estae.maybe they have deleted scenes from Purple Rain also

Believed by whom? On which grounds?

.

Snippets of this alternate opening were already circulating about a decade ago. Unlikely to have come from the Estate.

imprimis said:

databank said:

Believed by whom? On which grounds?

.

Snippets of this alternate opening were already circulating about a decade ago. Unlikely to have come from the Estate.

Thought so. More hysterions. Hysterions must be stopped.

imprimis said:

dance4me3121 said:

imprimis said:

.

Snippets of this alternate opening were already circulating about a decade ago. Unlikely to have come from the Estate.

Isnt here a paisley park logo on the video? That's why I said it probably came from the estate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

databank said:

Hold the phone! So...a version of Wally is now circulating?! I'm stunned. And excited/nervous to hear it.

jackmitz said:

Hold the phone! So...a version of Wally is now circulating?! I'm stunned. And excited/nervous to hear it.

A 16 second snippet last I heard , unless I missed something. Hope I did .

purplepolitician said:

What do the horns in the end remind you of? From another Prince song?

Wolfie87 said:

What do the horns in the end remind you of? From another Prince song?

.

Indeterminate and nonspecific 1986-era Eric Leeds embellishments. Maybe something like the demo version of 'Telepathy', where the leaked copy begins to fade out. They seem gratuitous and slightly out of place, but without the rest of the track, judgment cannot be passed.

.

[Edited 2/12/17 3:52am]

mushmackalenta said:

love2thenines2003 said:

mikeyaddict said:

love2thenines2003 said:

The World of collector circles is à special world...u Will b surprised by the songs that no one has ever heard even not mentioned in The vault site. ..what is coming next. ...is in the hands of those Who own these jewels....they are free to do what they want.....everything is a question of time!

Bollocks. We'll never hear it then. Isn't time supposed to be an illusion?

There's new leaks every year, so it's likely there'll be more even though maybe not everything comes out.

Now that the necessity to protect Prince associates from Prince's wrath is more or less obsolete, I wonder in the end... if collectors keep those tapes for themselves because of their trading value, wouldn't it be much simpler for everyone if EVERYBODY leaked EVERYTHING? Then there wouldn't be any need for having assets with a trading value