Prince's demise at such an early age cost us many albums (and we are greedy for he gave more than so many artists.

I still regret that he did not give us an album that brought in artists who were fans that could have written songs and produced for him and guested with him.

People may quote the Rave un 2 the joy fantastic (an album I like and can listen to from start to finish) that was not a success. I would also argue it was not executed in the way that Supernatural was with Santanna. Prince still had too much control.

People will know of Prince's ability to contribute to a song in a live setting where he supports rather than overshadows the artist he is with. Whether it being the contentious allowance of Shelby J to shine, or his live performances with Amy Winehouse, Sharyn Jones, Lenny Kravitz etc. His remix of that James Brown and Aretha Franklin song was memorable.

My proposal (probably impossible due to record labels etc) would be for Prince to have let himself be used to create an album of songs written and produced by others for Prince.

Make the album have happened a few years back (I am not researching the time frames). I just thought it would be worth the creative chance. Just like if Michael Jackson had taken the Pharrell songs that he offered to him before he gave them to Justin Timberlake (senorita, cry me a river, rock your body, like I love you, nothin else, I really like that album) or at least as legend goes.

The album would have

Prince or Prince and Bruno Mars doing Upown Funk (it was never a solo Bruno song in this what if)
A fuller Stevie Wonder duet (not like the understated (wasted opportunity) of what the funk) or even use this song to reunite with the Time
A neptunes track

A NIN track with Trent Reznor more NIN style than Prince (Pretty Hate Machine or a cousin of Hurt)

A Justin Timberlake track playing of the "Sexy Back rivalry

A Questlove track

A Roots track

A Bob Dylan track (the Minnesota connection) after all "indifference" has a Dylan vibe, or if that doesn't work, ship Dylan's ass out and have him do "To make you feel my love" A David Bowie Collaboration with Brian Eno bouncing things off the wall A crossover country track with a female singer who can write sing and act in a video

A Revolution track the reunion

A NPG (power trio) lineup

A Santanna guitar duel song

An Outkast or at least Andre 3000 track

A Joni Mitchell, or Kate Bush or Tori Amos track.
Anderson Paak welcome new blood

D'Angelo a son of Vodoo track

A P Funk track before Bernie died.

Mark Ronson and Amy Winehouse

Sly Stone

So everybody is alive at this point and giving their all. Any thoughts about this idea. Give your suggestions, feel free to tell me it never would have worked, and do you think it is possible we could have found some gems in this album. Also feel free to tell me why don't I just add Jimi Hendrix, Elvis and Jesus into the project while I am at it.

i don't know, i think he did surrender at many points, sometimes those guys didn't get credit. Producer is a funny, almost catchall type of label. I couldn't even tell you what it is because it really has no hard definition. The most important thing is, when someone had something worthwhile to contribute, he let it in. Dez Dickerson's guitar work on Little Red Corvette, Matt Finks keyboard riff for Dirty Mind, Wendy and Lisa's input on Purple Rain. Prince knew what he was doing. Producers like Quincy Jones mainly are only interested in hogging the glory, not to say they don't do a lot of great work but I don't believe Prince ever needed that kind of figure, he could do whatever needed to be done and what he couldn't do, or rather, what he needed help with, like engineers to run the machines, he could just hire someone. I honestly cannot imagine anyone helping him like Sam Phillips or George Martin did to their respective brilliant artists, Prince knew what to do.

PeteSilas said:

i don't know, i think he did surrender at many points, sometimes those guys didn't get credit. Producer is a funny, almost catchall type of label. I couldn't even tell you what it is because it really has no hard definition. The most important thing is, when someone had something worthwhile to contribute, he let it in. Dez Dickerson's guitar work on Little Red Corvette, Matt Finks keyboard riff for Dirty Mind, Wendy and Lisa's input on Purple Rain. Prince knew what he was doing. Producers like Quincy Jones mainly are only interested in hogging the glory, not to say they don't do a lot of great work but I don't believe Prince ever needed that kind of figure, he could do whatever needed to be done and what he couldn't do, or rather, what he needed help with, like engineers to run the machines, he could just hire someone. I honestly cannot imagine anyone helping him like Sam Phillips or George Martin did to their respective brilliant artists, Prince knew what to do.

Thanks for the reply. I just wanted to see how Prince used his talents utilizing the songwriting and decisions of others. It is interesting that all of those times you cited, the results were brilliant, for example, Dez' guitar has been named in lists of best guitar solos. The input of others listed by me may have helped him catch that popular ear again just like the Santana Supernatural album.

It is an interesting question. How much did Sam Phillips help in capturing the lightning in the bottle of an early Elvis or George Martin enabling the Beatles? (was he the fifth Beatle or as John Lennon flippantly said he was just the man pressing record (John did appreciate George though) ) I know Michael Jackson was uneasy at the acclaim that Quincy got for Thriller at times.

robertgeorge said:

PeteSilas said:

i don't know, i think he did surrender at many points, sometimes those guys didn't get credit. Producer is a funny, almost catchall type of label. I couldn't even tell you what it is because it really has no hard definition. The most important thing is, when someone had something worthwhile to contribute, he let it in. Dez Dickerson's guitar work on Little Red Corvette, Matt Finks keyboard riff for Dirty Mind, Wendy and Lisa's input on Purple Rain. Prince knew what he was doing. Producers like Quincy Jones mainly are only interested in hogging the glory, not to say they don't do a lot of great work but I don't believe Prince ever needed that kind of figure, he could do whatever needed to be done and what he couldn't do, or rather, what he needed help with, like engineers to run the machines, he could just hire someone. I honestly cannot imagine anyone helping him like Sam Phillips or George Martin did to their respective brilliant artists, Prince knew what to do.

Thanks for the reply. I just wanted to see how Prince used his talents utilizing the songwriting and decisions of others. It is interesting that all of those times you cited, the results were brilliant, for example, Dez' guitar has been named in lists of best guitar solos. The input of others listed by me may have helped him catch that popular ear again just like the Santana Supernatural album.

It is an interesting question. How much did Sam Phillips help in capturing the lightning in the bottle of an early Elvis or George Martin enabling the Beatles? (was he the fifth Beatle or as John Lennon flippantly said he was just the man pressing record (John did appreciate George though) ) I know Michael Jackson was uneasy at the acclaim that Quincy got for Thriller at times.

clive davis did try the santana/supernatural strategy with Prince and Rave, lots of different artists and the results were somewhat mixed critically but I don't think it sold well (I always loved it). Prince, however, wasn't like Santana, a guy who is a one trick pony more or less, he needed a band, singers etc.., Prince didn't.

As for how much Elvis was helped by Sam Phillips, for a guy who was 19 he was a great help finding his strengths. I've read that Elvis was mostly a Dean Martin wannabe at that stage and Sam Phillips and the rest of the trio stumbled upon the rockabilly, it was sam who thought it was special, and it was. Sam also had the equipment, the finances, the business acumen to make it all happen and although he wasn't a musician, he was creative, I remember him saying how he rigged Scotty' moores guitar for Blue Moon to give it that ethereal, clip clop effect and how he did something to jerry lees piano for either "shakin" or "great balls". He was definitely hands on and deserves tons of credit as the musicians do also.

the beatles, I believe that george martin was more or less just a recorder for them in the beginning and got more and more important as the beatles wanted classical musicians or different things like the elizabethan piano part it in In My Life which he wrote, and then, you have to give him credit for the studio trickery he did during sgt. Pepper's and the rest of the psychedelic period, he definitely deserves his credit.

Mj and quincy, quincy's main strength was his social skills, he was a master at getting the most out of a musician and he also had all the connections a guy would ever need because he was such a smooth motherfucker. He was a great producer, I hate to say it because he pissed me off with what he said about michael the day after he died but he was good for Michael at least at the stage where they worked together. The problem was, he was seen as a puppet master and Michael just a singer when Michael had a pretty advanced knowledge and talent for pop music even before quincy got his hands on the music, the rough demos show this. Quincy deserves his credit, Michael wasn't a musician/instrumentalist, he also didn't have those social skills.

How would Prince have been helped by such a figure? who knows, those kinds of guys can hurt as well as help and I really couldn't see Prince working under a guy like Quincy, I read that Shuggie Otis, a guy who was kind of like Prince before Prince balked at Quincy's demands as a producer and lost out on his chances for a real career. Like I say, those kinds of guys can do as much harm as good. Hell, sam phillips locked Jerry Lee under contract for no good reason, a common story in a business where everyone wants to play bigshot.

PeteSilas said:

robertgeorge said:

Thanks for the reply. I just wanted to see how Prince used his talents utilizing the songwriting and decisions of others. It is interesting that all of those times you cited, the results were brilliant, for example, Dez' guitar has been named in lists of best guitar solos. The input of others listed by me may have helped him catch that popular ear again just like the Santana Supernatural album.

It is an interesting question. How much did Sam Phillips help in capturing the lightning in the bottle of an early Elvis or George Martin enabling the Beatles? (was he the fifth Beatle or as John Lennon flippantly said he was just the man pressing record (John did appreciate George though) ) I know Michael Jackson was uneasy at the acclaim that Quincy got for Thriller at times.

clive davis did try the santana/supernatural strategy with Prince and Rave, lots of different artists and the results were somewhat mixed critically but I don't think it sold well (I always loved it). Prince, however, wasn't like Santana, a guy who is a one trick pony more or less, he needed a band, singers etc.., Prince didn't.

As for how much Elvis was helped by Sam Phillips, for a guy who was 19 he was a great help finding his strengths. I've read that Elvis was mostly a Dean Martin wannabe at that stage and Sam Phillips and the rest of the trio stumbled upon the rockabilly, it was sam who thought it was special, and it was. Sam also had the equipment, the finances, the business acumen to make it all happen and although he wasn't a musician, he was creative, I remember him saying how he rigged Scotty' moores guitar for Blue Moon to give it that ethereal, clip clop effect and how he did something to jerry lees piano for either "shakin" or "great balls". He was definitely hands on and deserves tons of credit as the musicians do also.

the beatles, I believe that george martin was more or less just a recorder for them in the beginning and got more and more important as the beatles wanted classical musicians or different things like the elizabethan piano part it in In My Life which he wrote, and then, you have to give him credit for the studio trickery he did during sgt. Pepper's and the rest of the psychedelic period, he definitely deserves his credit.

Mj and quincy, quincy's main strength was his social skills, he was a master at getting the most out of a musician and he also had all the connections a guy would ever need because he was such a smooth motherfucker. He was a great producer, I hate to say it because he pissed me off with what he said about michael the day after he died but he was good for Michael at least at the stage where they worked together. The problem was, he was seen as a puppet master and Michael just a singer when Michael had a pretty advanced knowledge and talent for pop music even before quincy got his hands on the music, the rough demos show this. Quincy deserves his credit, Michael wasn't a musician/instrumentalist, he also didn't have those social skills.

How would Prince have been helped by such a figure? who knows, those kinds of guys can hurt as well as help and I really couldn't see Prince working under a guy like Quincy, I read that Shuggie Otis, a guy who was kind of like Prince before Prince balked at Quincy's demands as a producer and lost out on his chances for a real career. Like I say, those kinds of guys can do as much harm as good. Hell, sam phillips locked Jerry Lee under contract for no good reason, a common story in a business where everyone wants to play bigshot.

My concept is that the fact Prince was not a one track pony made the Rave project (which was a win for me but not the public) made him stiffle input from others. He would be contributing to tracks others made rather than others adding bits to his already completed soundtracks

Unfortunately my design probablly would have had Prince walk out, or not contributing his best material or efforts. I would like to see him in a project where he has the attitude he had when he covered Miss You with Ron Woods and Sting, "This is yours, but now it belongs to me" where he makes an effort to make it th best possible in the studio this time.

I did not know about Sam Phillips treatment of the guitar and piano, so that was interesting. I agree that Phillips had a lot to do with Elvis reaching his pop culture apotheosis. Even dubious figures like Col Tom Parker and Joseph Jackson had an impact on the success of their respective legends. Even Brian Epstein, even though he gave away a lot of Beatles' merchandising did things needed.

I think George Martin was incredibly important to the Beatles'. From basic studio knowledge, knowledge of the orchestra with his composing abilities and abilities to score music. The In my life piano example was just one example. His ability to add, and encourage was vital, and he deserves aclaim.

I do not know all of Quincy's dealings, but suspect he was at his peak, and his ability to work with Michael Jackson, is to use a basketball analogy like how Phil Jackson the coach got the best from the stellar talent of Michael Jackson. He had the maturity, poise and confidence to help forge the fire that was Michael's stellar talent.

george martin would get my vote out of those guys, he could do what the other guys could do and more. the piano part in in my life sounds like a harpsichord only because he had to tweak it, speed it up to fit it into the song. Just the kinds of stories that Mr. Martin's history with the beatles and he did it all being a decent, humble guy.

PeteSilas said:

george martin would get my vote out of those guys, he could do what the other guys could do and more. the piano part in in my life sounds like a harpsichord only because he had to tweak it, speed it up to fit it into the song. Just the kinds of stories that Mr. Martin's history with the beatles and he did it all being a decent, humble guy.

Agreed George Martin was the best. His work on Eleanor Rigby, his instrumental contributions to thr Yellow Submarine soundtrack was half of it. A day in the life and the instrumental coda.

If George Martin is not behind the control panel, "I am the Walrus" and "Strawberry Fields" as well as "Penny Lane" do not sound the same I am sure of that.

It is a shame that he could not have been on Let it Be instead of Phil Spector, just because he deserved to be on all of the Beatles official album releases.

George Martin appreciated the Beatles talent and was very open minded, and yes I would call him the fifth Beatle for whatever it is worth. Completely agree that George was class personified, RIP.