Just wondered what everybody made of these comments.

http://www.usatoday.com/s.../95220036/

She compared her treatment in the media to Prince's, a similarly audacious artist who she claimed was celebrated, not condemned, for his sexually adventurous persona. "I was called a whore and a witch. One headline compared me to Satan. And I said, 'Wait a minute, isn't Prince running around with fishnets and high heels and lipstick with his butt hanging out?,'" she said. "Yes, he was, but he was a man."

Well she's not wrong.

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

I don't think she's saying otherwise. She's speaking about the ingrained misogyny in entertainment industry.

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

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Well that's not really the point of the thread.

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Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

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Look at her album sales and she gets the last laugh.

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rogifan said:

Maybe perhaps because a lot of what Madonna has done over her career seems contrived? Also I'm not sure Prince was always celebrated for everything he did. But the thing is he grew up and grew out of the need to shock. Madonna never did. Case in point from the 2015 Grammys: Like Prince said in 2004:

“Look at this situation with the FCC after Janet: We’ve gone too far now. We’ve pushed the envelope off the table and forgotten there was a table. You can’t push the envelope any further than I pushed it. So stop! What’s the point?”

I don't think this is a sexist thing at all. I wouldn't want to see Prince flashing his ass at 56 either. But I'm all ears if Madonna has examples of where Prince was lauded for doing something whereas she was given shit for doing the exact same thing.

Yeah, Prince would never have his ass hanging out in public.

darkroman said:

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

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Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

See...this^^^^is that bullshit....lol

darkroman said:

Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

Put her alone in a studio a see how long it takes for her to do something.

NouveauDance said:

FUNKNROLL said:

Somewhat off topic but this is sometimes a good site for sharing/chatting. I'm not saying misogyny isn't real. But thinking back on my experiences... I'm a guy and I cannot recall being alone with other guys and hearing somebody say (about a woman) "who does she think she is? She needs to realize her place...". Perhaps that's naive. But I HAVE experienced bigotry. I was once given permission to leave work a little early for a date but "only if it is with a woman" (I'm gay and the remark was serious). I went through customs a year ago and the white agent asked me two times if I'd gotten "anywhere near those dirty Africans" while visiting Italy. But I don't recall hearing the same kind of disrespect or oppression toward women. Calling somebody a bish for being a pain in is no different than calling a man an ass or a dick (pardon my French). Perhaps Madonna's own success takes the wind out of her argument. She's gotten pretty far regardless of misogyny. Further than plenty of men. The truth is - you can't be successful without experience detractors and attitude. When you push the universe it pushes back. [Edited 12/10/16 4:44am]

The thing is, this stuff is never said aloud in these terms. It's in the assumptions, in comments that can be somewhat veiled and couched in niceties, and in ways women are treated. In my own profession (teaching), I am absolutely treated differently by parents, students, and administrators based on my gender. Because I am female, the assumption is that I should be more nurturing towards students (teenagers) than my male colleagues. I cannot tell you how many times I have had a male student or parent expect me to simply "give in" or let something go because I am female and I should kowtow to their demands. I cannot adequately express the incredible frustration I feel when it takes a male saying THE EXACT SAME THING THAT I AM SAYING for people to listen.

Just because you don't hear it, does not mean it doesn't exist. It simply may mean you are not paying attention.

Sorry.

NouveauDance said:

darkroman said:

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

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Well that's not really the point of the thread.

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Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

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Look at her album sales and she gets the last laugh.

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She doesn't write anything. She doesn't play any instruments. She dances around the stage poorly and sings poorly. That's about it. And yes if you only care about album sales and money, then you are right. But some of us care about music and art instead.

mnfriend said:

FunkiestOne said:

She doesn't write anything. She doesn't play any instruments. She dances around the stage poorly and sings poorly. That's about it. And yes if you only care about album sales and money, then you are right. But some of us care about music and art instead.

Actually, she does write and can play the guitar and keyboards.

[Edited 12/10/16 7:11am]

NouveauDance said:

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

I don't think she's saying otherwise. She's speaking about the ingrained misogyny in entertainment industry.

This. ^^^ She didn't throw any shade on Prince.

i'd just add that the entire point of madonna is that she always gets shit thrown at her...and she triumphs anyway. Without the adversity - the people saying she has no talent, over the hill, a hack - and the ride wouldn't have been half as much fun. Even in the 80s and 90s - at her peak - there was shit thrown, daily. That's the name of her game.

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I think the biggest threat to her career has been her age - and her own reluctance to accept it, and mature. She was always cool - the coolest chick in the room - but she's lost that for the time being. She hasn't even changed her hairdo in a decade.

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String together the good songs - the songs that make you dance, the singles that charted, with the bulk coming from the 80s and 90s, but don't discount the last 15 years - and her career is epic. Her catalogue is epic.

1Sasha said:

Yes, but he had talent far greater than she had.

It's not a comparison, nor a contest. Can we not do that, and just stick to her comments on sexism and bigotry that women face in the industry? It's amazing to me that in 2016 it still happens to blatantly.

I loved her speech. I loved that someone who is known to be provocative 20 years ago can still stand up and say what she said. And she's dead on with her comments. Madonna published the sex book (which I still own and love browsing through sometimes) in 1990. Prince let his ass hang out in 1991 on MTV. He got some jokes, she got labeled every bad name a man and his soccer mom wife could sling at her. Of course, she never did back down.

Prince used God and sex synonymously in his music, equating orgasm with being as close to God as humanly possible. Yet Madonna wears some crosses around her neck while wearing a belt that says "BOY TOY", or makes out with a saint in "Like A Prayer" (a song that equates God and sex), and she's hammered to all fuck for it. (Ironically, a song that Prince played guitar on, and an album that Prince was on anonymously.)

She answered her critics about the Sex book in "Human Nature", "And I'm not sorry/it's human nature/I'm not your bitch don't hang your shit on me". The whole song, not jus the chorus, addresses the stupid backlash for the book. The Girlie show ended up being one of her best tours to date. (And there was a lot of titty in that show, too, including Dancing With The Stars judge Carrie Ann Inaba.)

She wasn't throwing shade at Prince. She modeled her career after Prince early on. She adored him, and fully believed in his genius - enough to copy it. And who wouldn't?! She took the business & promotional side of Prince's career, and put her own work into that. She's still here after how many fucking years? Diss her or not, but other starlets from the 80s ain't hanging around with any great attention. They're lucky to sell out a 3000 seat theater. Madonna's selling out arenas and stadiums. That's staying power, and she did it in the face of a million critics, including the one early on that said she would be a one-hit wonder and fade away (that was a review of her first record, by the way). I wonder where that guy is now?

The ceremony airs December 12 on Lifetime.

Strawberrylova123 said:

Madonna is really delusional, she really thinks she has the same talent as David bowie, prince, whitney, amy Winehouse and tupac...lolzz.

When did she say that?

There's some truth to what she says. Something MJ said in regards to her popularity is also true. He said something to the affect that she doesn't receive the same adulation and praise as artists like he and Prince, because she is a woman, and that always aggitated her as an entertainer. Girls never screamed for her the way they did for her male counterparts. That was something that always fueled her in a way, because she will never get that.

bluegangsta said:

FunkiestOne said:

She doesn't write anything. She doesn't play any instruments. She dances around the stage poorly and sings poorly. That's about it. And yes if you only care about album sales and money, then you are right. But some of us care about music and art instead.

Actually, she does write and can play the guitar and keyboards.

[Edited 12/10/16 7:11am]

I think she was a drummer in her early days too.

The list of people who she reeled off as gone depressed me. I'm not a huge fan of hers these days but I'm really glad she's still with us.

No, she can't "play guitar and piano", stop.

She's a glorified Vaudeville act at best, and even that is probably too gracious.

She lacks the keen sense of timing he had.

Not to mention the wit.

There was always a great sense of desperation about her, which is most distracting and unbecoming.

Plus she can not function without attention, to her detriment and to the detriment of the family members she tried to acquire.

Depressing.

They both had a decent work ethic, that is all.

FunkiestOne said:

darkroman said:

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Well that's not really the point of the thread.

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Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

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Look at her album sales and she gets the last laugh.

.

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She doesn't write anything. She doesn't play any instruments. She dances around the stage poorly and sings poorly. That's about it. And yes if you only care about album sales and money, then you are right. But some of us care about music and art instead.

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You can believe that she doesn't write anything, plays no instruments, and performs poorly, but it's very much your choice to do so, made despite all evidence to the contrary. Which is where the misogyny comes in.

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I care about music and art. I find hers fun, sexy, full of life, and often beautiful.

bluegangsta said:

darkroman said:

Madonna writes, produces, performs etc, just like Prince, so no great difference really.

Put her alone in a studio a see how long it takes for her to do something.

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Considering Madonna has almost 40 years experience of working in recording studios, I would imagine she would be very proficient indeed.

Certainly better than all of us on here!

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jdcxc said:

NouveauDance said:

Well she's not wrong.

Oh please. For a generic pop star, she was hailed and accepted by cultural elites as a maverick. She has been able to live in the mainstream and edge. The conservative criticism has been a foundation for her career, because it definately is not the music or talent. Prince has also had to fight against the narrow box and stereotypes that a majority of the public/industry puts Black artists/men into. It wasn't Madonna that was getting chicken, racial and antigay slurs being thrown at her by 100,000 Rolling Stone fans.

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Prince has NEVER been a black artist.

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Prince's specialism has always been writing and performing 'white' pop and rock.

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That's why Prince is concidered a 'rock' star and not an rnb artist.

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Prince also embrassed white radio and white singles charts.

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So there really wasn't anything black about Prince at all - but he engineered that to cross over to have mass appeal.

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Anyway it's stupid to call people black and white artists - it's never made any sense.

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