cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

ya, and depending on the social value, there are many murders who no one even tries to solve. I've known a few people, including some of my heroes. Hector Camacho's death is still unsolved.

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True. So many deaths (famous and non-famous) go unsolved. I hate to even turn on the news because every day, there is another murder, another body found. There's so much going on that we don't even hear about. My heart breaks when I hear about missing children, who are never found, or when they are eventually found, it is not good news.

unfortunately many people dissapear/are murdered and no one ever finds out what happened, not because of any mystery or conspiracy but simply because no one cares enough to find out. And sometimes, even with high profile deaths (Like Camacho and Tupac) no one ever really finds out. I was just watching a docu on Malcolm X this morning and only one of the assassins that was a shooter was convicted, two other men were sentenced but look completely innocent in retrospect. The only reason the one actual killer was caught at all was because he got shot trying to get away and was beaten by the crowd. Malcolm seemed to everyone that 1. he knew he'd die very soon 2. didn't really care anymore.

PeteSilas said:

cloveringold85 said:

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True. So many deaths (famous and non-famous) go unsolved. I hate to even turn on the news because every day, there is another murder, another body found. There's so much going on that we don't even hear about. My heart breaks when I hear about missing children, who are never found, or when they are eventually found, it is not good news.

unfortunately many people dissapear/are murdered and no one ever finds out what happened, not because of any mystery or conspiracy but simply because no one cares enough to find out. And sometimes, even with high profile deaths (Like Camacho and Tupac) no one ever really finds out. I was just watching a docu on Malcolm X this morning and only one of the assassins that was a shooter was convicted, two other men were sentenced but look completely innocent in retrospect. The only reason the one actual killer was caught at all was because he got shot trying to get away and was beaten by the crowd. Malcolm seemed to everyone that 1. he knew he'd die very soon 2. didn't really care anymore.

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Yes, unfortunately a lot of cases go unsolved and people will just forget about them, or they just run out of leads (cold case). There are quite a lot of cases that are suspicious, like Tupac, and countless others.

TrivialPursuit said:

PeteSilas said:

uhh, sometimes things take time,

I never put a timeline on grief, but truth is immediate for that timeline to even exist.

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Umm, that's not what Pete said. You are taking his words out of context. He did not say anything about putting a timeline on grief.... This is what he said in it's entirety:

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PeteSilas said: uhh, sometimes things take time, it took twenty something years for doctors who treated bruce lee to come out on record saying they were positive he died from a bad reaction to hashish. the 'official' reason was a pain pill. It was a blatant lie from the looks of it, so that Bruce and Hong Kong wouldn't have to deal with a hero who'd died as the result of an illegal drug, hong kong was also worried about other kids experimenting with what their hero took so they were complicity in everything.

Walter Payton had cancer of the, what was it? Pituatary gland or some such? Liver cancer? It took a good ten years for his pain pill abuse to come out and verify that the cancer most likely didn't just happen to afflict him. With Prince, I still don't know and we've all been round and round with it all. I do not think we have the truth yet but if it's just that simple that he was just another rock and roll junkie so be it, but I just don't think it is that simple.

cloveringold85 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

A good post

[Edited 12/12/16 9:35am]

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Please post this in the "conspiracy thread".

We have such wonderful things to show you!

http://prince.org/msg/7/4...sg_9802230

Thread's an absolute fucking train wreck of craziness, and makes Cobain consiparicies seem tame, but if you're in the right mood it can entertain a bit while offering you a troubling glimpse into the way a disturbing amount of people view the world.

TrevorAyer said:

Courtney murdered kurt ... yoko helped cia murder john .. mj was murdered ... bob marley was murdered ... mlk was murdered ... john and kurt had junkie wives whom prevented divorce via murder ... john was always on the gov hit list .. mj and mlk spoke out against secret societies just prior to murder .. prince ... who knows ... he certainly brought the industry grief ... at the same time doctors exist to depopulate and if he believed the garbage the spew it may have been accidental

Shit, dude. I hope for your sake you're being sarcastic. If not, seek help.

herb4 said:

We have such wonderful things to show you!

http://prince.org/msg/7/4...sg_9802230

Thread's an absolute fucking train wreck of craziness, and makes Cobain consiparicies seem tame, but if you're in the right mood it can entertain a bit while offering you a troubling glimpse into the way a disturbing amount of people view the world.

Noooooo thank you. I don't go there for a reason. Ain't nobody bringin' crazy around here, and I'm not inviting it in.

^^Sure, but you bring up the word "conspiracy", when it wasn't even mentioned in this thread.^^

Me too, I still trip on how Kurt passed and that time period. His death hit the fans hard I know I was in a daze over it. Love Nirvana. To this day when I listen to them and Kurts vocals I still feel sad over him being gone.

theblueangel said:

mynameisnotsusan said:

20+ years and I still at the thought of Kurt

Me too. Which is how I know that the heartache I feel regarding Prince won't ever go away. I didn't listen to Nirvana for more than a decade because it was too painful... but Prince's music is more integral and essential for me. I can't live without it, even though it often makes me so fucking sad.

cloveringold85 said:

^^Sure, but you bring up the word "conspiracy", when it wasn't even mentioned in this thread.^^

Indeed, but I wasn't exploring a conspiracy. I stated that fans often default to conspiracy theories, whatever they are, because it's a way to avoid the harsh reality of the situation. It's distraction.

I still ain't goin' over there, tho. lol

TrivialPursuit said:

herb4 said:

We have such wonderful things to show you!

http://prince.org/msg/7/4...sg_9802230

Thread's an absolute fucking train wreck of craziness, and makes Cobain consiparicies seem tame, but if you're in the right mood it can entertain a bit while offering you a troubling glimpse into the way a disturbing amount of people view the world.

Noooooo thank you. I don't go there for a reason. Ain't nobody bringin' crazy around here, and I'm not inviting it in.

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Yeah, Herb4 goes on his crazy rants on the conspiracy thread from time-to-time. As soon as someone comments on anything he says, he just runs and hides, but he always lurks and shows up again. It's a vicious cycle he has! LMAO!!

TrivialPursuit said:

cloveringold85 said:

^^Sure, but you bring up the word "conspiracy", when it wasn't even mentioned in this thread.^^

Indeed, but I wasn't exploring a conspiracy. I stated that fans often default to conspiracy theories, whatever they are, because it's a way to avoid the harsh reality of the situation. It's distraction.

I still ain't goin' over there, tho. lol

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I understand you are not interested in conspiracy/theories; however, I find it quite strange that you are talking about it in this thread. Just saying.

cloveringold85 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Indeed, but I wasn't exploring a conspiracy. I stated that fans often default to conspiracy theories, whatever they are, because it's a way to avoid the harsh reality of the situation. It's distraction.

I still ain't goin' over there, tho. lol

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I understand you are not interested in conspiracy/theories; however, I find it quite strange that you are talking about it in this thread. Just saying.

I never brought up any specific theory nor explored one. What I said was, "I think people, especially Prince fans, search for conspiracy theories and delve heavily into conjecture and half-baked ideas, simply because they are in denial. They want to make sense of the senselessness of an overdose, or a suicide. They reason the unreasonable. "It just doesn't make sense. Something is fishy." No, it's not fishy. It's not accepting the horrible truth of the situation."

Not sure why it's strange to address the truth of people in denial. Sometimes people need a gentle but firm shaking by the shirt collar.

i'm not much for conspiracy but I think it gets tired when people say "get help" to anyone they have a disagreement with. I'm all for the truth whatever it is, whether it's just purely and simply an od and nothing else or murder by a purple kangaroo.

Conspiracy theories can get crazy at times.When Prince died,I saw a meme on my Facebook newsfeed that had a picture of Prince and Michael Jackson.It said:

Michael Jackson owns a huge share of the Sony catalog and he is found dead at his home.

A few years after Prince gains ownership of his master recordings from Warner Bros,he is found dead at Paisley Park.

it's best not to go down this road!

TrivialPursuit said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I understand you are not interested in conspiracy/theories; however, I find it quite strange that you are talking about it in this thread. Just saying.

I never brought up any specific theory nor explored one. What I said was, "I think people, especially Prince fans, search for conspiracy theories and delve heavily into conjecture and half-baked ideas, simply because they are in denial. They want to make sense of the senselessness of an overdose, or a suicide. They reason the unreasonable. "It just doesn't make sense. Something is fishy." No, it's not fishy. It's not accepting the horrible truth of the situation."

Not sure why it's strange to address the truth of people in denial. Sometimes people need a gentle but firm shaking by the shirt collar.

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Okay, but "who" is in denial? Just because someone questions a person's (whether they are famous or not) suspicious death, why are they considered to be living in "denial"? That's the part of your comment that I have a problem with.

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The fact alone that Prince's death is still an active investigation, going on 8-months now, leads many of us to believe there is a lot more going on than we know. None of us know what happened to Prince. We don't know if he took those pills on purpose (suicide), or where he was getting them from. The media feeds us lies, and that is what stirs up controversy & conspiracies, imo.

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I guess many people feel his untimely death could have been prevented.

cloveringold85 said:

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Okay, but "who" is in denial? Just because someone questions a person's (whether they are famous or not) suspicious death, why are they considered to be living in "denial"? That's the part of your comment that I have a problem with.

That's fine, though, honestly. I won't split hairs over it, because ultimately people are going to do what they want, and believe what they want. You did initially challenge me using the term "conspiracy theory", not the "denial" thing, though.

Still ain't goin' over to that other thread.

PeteSilas said:

i'm not much for conspiracy but I think it gets tired when people say "get help" to anyone they have a disagreement with. I'm all for the truth whatever it is, whether it's just purely and simply an od and nothing else or murder by a purple kangaroo.

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Thanks for saying that & I agree.

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I am al for the truth also and if there was any foul-play involved in Prince's death, I just want to see justice be served. The media are the one's who are spreading lies and misinformation, not us Orgers, imo. There is a saying that I love which goes......."If things don't add up, that means that something is wrong."

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It's going on 8-months now, and the authorities still haven't closed the case. If he just overdosed, withtout any foul-play, we would have known that by now. Just saying.

TrivialPursuit said:

cloveringold85 said:

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Okay, but "who" is in denial? Just because someone questions a person's (whether they are famous or not) suspicious death, why are they considered to be living in "denial"? That's the part of your comment that I have a problem with.

That's fine, though, honestly. I won't split hairs over it, because ultimately people are going to do what they want, and believe what they want. You did initially challenge me using the term "conspiracy theory", not the "denial" thing, though.

Still ain't goin' over to that other thread.

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No problem. Yes, I initially questioned you on the "conspiracy" thing, but the "denial" thing was bugging me too. It's all good.

SoulAlive said:

Conspiracy theories can get crazy at times.When Prince died,I saw a meme on my Facebook newsfeed that had a picture of Prince and Michael Jackson.It said:

Michael Jackson owns a huge share of the Sony catalog and he is found dead at his home.

A few years after Prince gains ownership of his master recordings from Warner Bros,he is found dead at Paisley Park.

it's best not to go down this road!

you take it or you leave it, i leave it until someone can come up with some evidence. It's the internet, all opinions on all things go, it's unrealistic to think everyone thinks just like you.

Kurt suffered from Irritable Bowel Syndrome and was in constant pain, which most likely was why he used opiates. He was a gifted but tortured soul for sure. As far as Prince, I'll never believe he was a drug addict. Ever.

[Edited 12/14/16 16:13pm]

PeteSilas said:

ChanGirl said:

Kurt suffered from Irritable Bowel Syndrome and was in constant pain, which most likely was why he used opiates. He was a gifted but tortured soul for sure. As far as Prince, I'll never believe he was a drug addict. Ever.

[Edited 12/14/16 16:13pm]

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The difference (well, one of the differences) between Kurt & Prince is that Kurt never wanted to be famous. It is sad to think that someone so gifted can be so unhappy, as Kurt was.

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I'm with you on Prince not being a drug addict. There's a big difference between wanting relief from pain and being "addicted" for pure enjoyment.

cloveringold85 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Noooooo thank you. I don't go there for a reason. Ain't nobody bringin' crazy around here, and I'm not inviting it in.

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Yeah, Herb4 goes on his crazy rants on the conspiracy thread from time-to-time. As soon as someone comments on anything he says, he just runs and hides, but he always lurks and shows up again. It's a vicious cycle he has! LMAO!!

Oh, do please stop. At least debate me in good faith. That, or just ignore me.

I fucking love this. I ask questions that get ignored or unanswered, then everyone tells me to get lost and knock it off and quit trolling the thread so I do and now I'm "running and hiding". Yeah, I'M the crazy one. People think Prince faked his own death and there's an Illumanitti and Russians with secret breifcases and what have you but if someone thinks there may be life on other planets then they're the crazy ones.

Apparently, the fact that I don't think Prince was murdered, that there is no Illuminatti, that I believe we landed on the moon and that 9/11 was not an inside job (amongst other things) while still acknowledging the possibility of alien life is enough to put me in the crazy category.

Fact of the matter is, I listed about 10 or 15 things (conspiracy theories), prefecly rational beliefs regarding things that are proven to be complete bullshit and, when called out on the "25% of REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS" that I'm apprently wrong about, no one can be bothered to list which ones and answer me. Most of all by YOU. This is what constitutes "debate and discussion" apparently.

Maybe you can take a moment to enlighten us about ritual satanic sacrifices and numerology. Perhaps Cobain was a victim. You, of all people, calling me crazy gives me solace and security in my own sanity, to be frank.

TrivialPursuit said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I understand you are not interested in conspiracy/theories; however, I find it quite strange that you are talking about it in this thread. Just saying.

I never brought up any specific theory nor explored one. What I said was, "I think people, especially Prince fans, search for conspiracy theories and delve heavily into conjecture and half-baked ideas, simply because they are in denial. They want to make sense of the senselessness of an overdose, or a suicide. They reason the unreasonable. "It just doesn't make sense. Something is fishy." No, it's not fishy. It's not accepting the horrible truth of the situation."

Not sure why it's strange to address the truth of people in denial. Sometimes people need a gentle but firm shaking by the shirt collar.

You're wasting your time. Never mind that you said "there IS NO CONSPIRACY" and "I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories". You used the word "conspiracy" so somehow that's "Fishy" and "interesting", you see. This somehow consititutes a "gotcha" and you are supposed to succumb to deep reflection. This is the part where you're supposed to look deep into the mirror and inside of yourself in order to ask the deep, meaningful question" "Perhaps it is ME that is positing conspiracies?"

It's not, but context is just one of many things that seem to be beyond the grasp of certain folks.

ChanGirl said:

As far as Prince, I'll never believe he was a drug addict. Ever.

[Edited 12/14/16 16:13pm]

Why not? You can be addicted to legal stuff just as easily as street level dope. Why would Prince being an addict tarnish your image of him? It can happen to anyone. I guarantee you know at least one or two addicts and you have no idea they're hooked.

PeteSilas said:

i'm not much for conspiracy but I think it gets tired when people say "get help" to anyone they have a disagreement with. I'm all for the truth whatever it is, whether it's just purely and simply an od and nothing else or murder by a purple kangaroo.

Well it's a matter of context. Back in the pre-internet days I didn't pay much attention to those but now they're all over the internet. I keep reading the most absurd things on the Org and Facebook, and everywhere else for that matters. When it's en masse like this one loses patience and also realize that a terrifying huge number of people are in need of psychiatric help. Of course there is the occasional reasonable person like you who has some doubts about a specific situation, and they may take a stray bullet every once in a while. When people reply with constructed arguments I acknowledge their sanity but now, right or wrong, my policy is "shoot first, ask questions later".

so many things can't be compared to the pre internet days. for example, how many prince fans did you even personally know in the 80's? How many MJ or Bruce fans? the internet ties people together way past our geographical or our social contact limits. The 'get help' thing personally has no merit, i've been on the internet long enough to have been in enough disagreements where people attack my morality, intelligence, sanity just because they get frustrated with an arguement or they just want to dismiss what i'm saying and not try to win through a good arguement. It doesn't bother me much because I know who i am but, sometimes it's been dissapointing when family or friends who you thought had more to their character than to revert to base namecalling when they are losing an arguement or when you don't see things like they do. It's exactly the same reason i don't let many people on my personal facebook, just nothing but stupid arguements.

PeteSilas said:

so many things can't be compared to the pre internet days. for example, how many prince fans did you even personally know in the 80's? How many MJ or Bruce fans? the internet ties people together way past our geographical or our social contact limits. The 'get help' thing personally has no merit, i've been on the internet long enough to have been in enough disagreements where people attack my morality, intelligence, sanity just because they get frustrated with an arguement or they just want to dismiss what i'm saying and not try to win through a good arguement. It doesn't bother me much because I know who i am but, sometimes it's been dissapointing when family or friends who you thought had more to their character than to revert to base namecalling when they are losing an arguement or when you don't see things like they do. It's exactly the same reason i don't let many people on my personal facebook, just nothing but stupid arguements.

The issue with the internet is u get connected with many people u wouldn't get connected with IRL. In pre-internet days I wouldn't hang out with someone just because they're a Prince fan. I would dismiss and ignore the lunatics and never have to see them again. Now lunatics are taking part in a private club and I want them out. Simple as that. I want them OUT so I can have fun with my friends. So I'm gonna give them shit until they fucking leave. Some already have. Some won't. All my arguments with them are based on logic and data. When someone proves me wrong on a factual or logical basis, as it's happened, I back-off and apologize. When someone, like u, admit that they were just daydreaming, I'm cool. Unfortunately it happens rarely. However I see where u're coming from and I'm cool with u, u're no lunatic. I have a very rich social life IRL and even though I have my issues I keep 'em for myself and u will not find anyone IRL to complain about me having physchiatric or social issues. Unlike many people here.

herb4 said:

cloveringold85 said:

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Yeah, Herb4 goes on his crazy rants on the conspiracy thread from time-to-time. As soon as someone comments on anything he says, he just runs and hides, but he always lurks and shows up again. It's a vicious cycle he has! LMAO!!

Oh, do please stop. At least debate me in good faith. That, or just ignore me.

I fucking love this. I ask questions that get ignored or unanswered, then everyone tells me to get lost and knock it off and quit trolling the thread so I do and now I'm "running and hiding". Yeah, I'M the crazy one. People think Prince faked his own death and there's an Illumanitti and Russians with secret breifcases and what have you but if someone thinks there may be life on other planets then they're the crazy ones.

Apparently, the fact that I don't think Prince was murdered, that there is no Illuminatti, that I believe we landed on the moon and that 9/11 was not an inside job (amongst other things) while still acknowledging the possibility of alien life is enough to put me in the crazy category.

Fact of the matter is, I listed about 10 or 15 things (conspiracy theories), prefecly rational beliefs regarding things that are proven to be complete bullshit and, when called out on the "25% of REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS" that I'm apprently wrong about, no one can be bothered to list which ones and answer me. Most of all by YOU. This is what constitutes "debate and discussion" apparently.

Maybe you can take a moment to enlighten us about ritual satanic sacrifices and numerology. Perhaps Cobain was a victim. You, of all people, calling me crazy gives me solace and security in my own sanity, to be frank.

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HERB: You are truly hilarious! In the conspiracy thread, you mentioned "Vaccines", and several people; Olivia, Zena and MYSELF responded to YOU, and you totally ignored us, and did it more than once! I know you read it, but you refused to answer our questions. That is what I call someone who is "running and hiding", because you refuse to answer someone when they ask you a legitimate question! Is everything always this one-sided with you? You're not going to manipulate me or what I say, so don't even bother!

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So, you don't believe that Prince was murdered, given the timeline of events and the fact that 8-months after his death, there is still an active homicide investigation going on, and you don't believe that the Illuminati exists, and yadda, yadda, well goodie for you!! Some people feel differently. Accept it.

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You say you listed conspiracies that were proven to be untrue? Where are your links to those findings? Fact is, you haven't proven anything to any of us.

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You come in here and go off on tangents.......yes, that does make you look and sound crazy!

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