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Thread started 12/10/16 5:19pm

donnyenglish

Lessoned Learned by Estate from 4Ever?

4Ever did not meet expectations for sales because they were selling what has already been sold. His vault is vast. Give the fans what they want and the support will be there. I feel bad because Monteux 2013 is now out there and that was a major gem in the vault that would have done so much better than 4ever.
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Reply #1 posted 12/10/16 5:35pm

murph

donnyenglish said:

4Ever did not meet expectations for sales because they were selling what has already been sold. His vault is vast. Give the fans what they want and the support will be there. I feel bad because Monteux 2013 is now out there and that was a major gem in the vault that would have done so much better than 4ever.

Nah...I think it just comes down to packaging, sound and presentation...

Labels continue to find success all the time by re-releasing greatest hits packages. The same songs, ect...The issue is 4Ever was a rushed money grab. If u r going to do a greatest hits project for an artist the stature of Prince and u r doing so with songs people heard before, FOR GOD SAKE, do a real remastering and restoration of said tracks. Let it be known that the songs have never been heard before at THIS quality. And present a package that screams SPECIAL...real liner notes...and yes, include more unreleased material. But no need to go crazy with it. Just two to three more songs.

But yeah...4Eever was an obvious rush job. That's the true issue here IMO....

[Edited 12/10/16 17:36pm]

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Reply #2 posted 12/10/16 5:46pm

warning2all

They just sold a boatload of Greatest Hits only 8 months ago. People aren't going to buy them AGAIN within a year.

This is a LESSON for remasters tho: you better stuff them- and I mean absolutely stuff them with Vault tracks- because no one's going to buy "Purple Rain" again within a year with scant bonus material.

That has to be the model going forward.
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Reply #3 posted 12/10/16 5:58pm

KlyphIsBackAga
in

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WHY do people keep bringing up the estate when they talk about 4Ever? The "estate" had nothing to do with it.....
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Reply #4 posted 12/10/16 6:06pm

feeluupp

4EVER is already out of the TOP 50 on it's 2nd week...

The first week total U.S. sales were around 20,424... The 2nd week it sold less than 10,000 copies...

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Reply #5 posted 12/10/16 6:14pm

TwiliteKid

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donnyenglish said:

4Ever did not meet expectations for sales because they were selling what has already been sold. His vault is vast. Give the fans what they want and the support will be there. I feel bad because Monteux 2013 is now out there and that was a major gem in the vault that would have done so much better than 4ever.


How do you know what expectations were? And how can you be certain that a release of the Montreux shows would have done better?
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Reply #6 posted 12/10/16 6:26pm

SoulAlive

warning2all said:

This is a LESSON for remasters tho: you better stuff them- and I mean absolutely stuff them with Vault tracks- because no one's going to buy "Purple Rain" again within a year with scant bonus material. That has to be the model going forward.

Exactly! It's time for them to use the heavy artillery and give the fans what they really want.Give us a ton of outtakes,excellent packaging/liner notes,and make it truly SPECIAL!

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Reply #7 posted 12/10/16 6:26pm

donnyenglish

There was a similar strategy with the Blu Ray release. Not sure how that sold, but I would expect similar results since the 3 movies and bonus material had already been sold. I didnt buy it and I buy everything. I did buy 4ever only because of moonbeam.
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Reply #8 posted 12/10/16 6:27pm

vuvuzela

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KlyphIsBackAgain said:

WHY do people keep bringing up the estate when they talk about 4Ever? The "estate" had nothing to do with it.....

Gonna have to agree with you here. This is the release we got because that is all WB has access to. They been done had {sic} Moonbeam Levels. I believe 4Ever is a bit of a big middle finger to the estate.

Listen to me closely as the story unfolds
This could be the saddest story ever been told....
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Reply #9 posted 12/10/16 7:16pm

TrivialPursuit

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donnyenglish said:

4Ever did not meet expectations for sales because they were selling what has already been sold. His vault is vast. Give the fans what they want and the support will be there. I feel bad because Monteux 2013 is now out there and that was a major gem in the vault that would have done so much better than 4ever.


Says who?

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #10 posted 12/10/16 8:04pm

rogifan

We don't know what expectations were but this was something already in the pipeline which the Estate really had nothing to do with. And considering a lot of greatest hits albums were sold after P passed I'm not surprised people aren't rushing out to buy this. Perhaps WB should have canceled this if it was possible.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #11 posted 12/11/16 12:30am

Linda1974

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KlyphIsBackAgain said:

WHY do people keep bringing up the estate when they talk about 4Ever? The "estate" had nothing to do with it.....

yeahthat it's a WB album.
.
Here in the Netherlands it's selling well.... last week 4Ever came in NEW nr. 12
The PR is huge around 4Ever, every hour a big commercial on the radio and even a commercial on prime time commercial television!
I've never heard or seen that for other artists ....
.

So I think it's heading to no.1...
Purple Rain has been chosen this year for the no.1 song in the Top1000 of all time!
So he's very populair in Holland right now biggrin
Forever in My Life....
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Reply #12 posted 12/11/16 1:30am

EmmaMcG

KlyphIsBackAgain said:

WHY do people keep bringing up the estate when they talk about 4Ever? The "estate" had nothing to do with it.....


The estate might not have been involved with it but they can still learn something from it. For instance, people are not interested in yet another hits package. Not only that, but virtually all the press leading up to its release was focused on Moonbeam Levels. So the lesson to learn from that is people ARE interested in unreleased songs from the vault. So hopefully, when it comes time for the estate to try make a bit of money off his death, they'll release compilations of unreleased music that most people won't already own and they'll stay away from another greatest hits collection. Maybe they could start a remastered series where each remastered album comes with a second or third disc of unreleased music from that era or maybe a live show.
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Reply #13 posted 12/11/16 1:59am

MD431Madcat

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Crap = No Money!

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Reply #14 posted 12/11/16 4:53am

donnyenglish

4Ever could not have been released without approval from the Estate, so they/it was involved. Anyone that suggests that sales are not disappointing is fooling themselves. They probably lost money on it given the poor sales. Half the loyal fans on here didnt even buy it.
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Reply #15 posted 12/11/16 6:01am

EmmaMcG

donnyenglish said:

4Ever could not have been released without approval from the Estate, so they/it was involved. Anyone that suggests that sales are not disappointing is fooling themselves. They probably lost money on it given the poor sales. Half the loyal fans on here didnt even buy it.


Why would anyone here buy it? I'm assuming most people on here would already own these songs. Even Moonbeam Levels was widely available. 4ever was more for the casual fan but what WB failed to realise was that any casual fan with even a passing interest in Prince would have already gotten these songs from the many previous greatest hits compilations. There was no real incentive for anyone to buy 4ever.
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Reply #16 posted 12/11/16 6:42am

1Sasha

I have been thinking of the Susan Rogers interview. I know that is in a different thread, but put her in charge to assemble and put out the vault product. I bought 4EVER just to have it. But I hate that it went out cheaply in a paper sleeve and not a plastic case. Typical.

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Reply #17 posted 12/11/16 3:20pm

Noodled24

donnyenglish said:

4Ever did not meet expectations for sales because they were selling what has already been sold. His vault is vast. Give the fans what they want and the support will be there. I feel bad because Monteux 2013 is now out there and that was a major gem in the vault that would have done so much better than 4ever.


4EVER didn't work because it was too soon for the public and not interesting enough for fans.

Monteux 2013 would have gone over well with fans but the public would have ignored it. Fans are a bit unrelistic with regard to this kind of thing.

It's the kind of thing that would work best if it was shown on TV, hitting the widest possible audience, and rebuilding his reputation with lost fans.

IMO the estate should be spamming TV with the unseen documentaries. TV stations will pay the estate to play hour long adverts for Prince CDs.

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Reply #18 posted 12/11/16 3:23pm

ladygirl99

Did Warner Bros even promote the album? I usually keep up on Prince's news and if I didnt knew about the release date no way a casual fan (who I am suspecting their target audience) would know about it.

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Reply #19 posted 12/11/16 3:33pm

EmmaMcG

ladygirl99 said:

Did Warner Bros even promote the album? I usually keep up on Prince's news and if I didnt knew about the release date no way a casual fan (who I am suspecting their target audience) would know about it.



I seen a promotional poster on a wall in Dublin but that's about it. Somebody on another thread mentioned it was advertised on British TV. So that's a poster in Ireland and a TV ad in the UK. Don't know about America or the rest of Europe though but I'd guess it wasn't heavily promoted. After all, what's the point? It would be like throwing money down the drain.
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Reply #20 posted 12/11/16 4:11pm

jtfolden

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ladygirl99 said:

Did Warner Bros even promote the album? I usually keep up on Prince's news and if I didnt knew about the release date no way a casual fan (who I am suspecting their target audience) would know about it.

I've seen nothing for this release that I can remember but for a press release and one promo video on Facebook... nothing that would attract the attention of a casual fan.

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Reply #21 posted 12/11/16 4:30pm

mrdxw1213

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Isnt Prince the one that handed in 4ever and it was planned to be released before he passed?
I feel some kind of love 4 U
I don't know your name
This is the kind of love that takes 2
I want U and I'm not ashamed
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Reply #22 posted 12/11/16 8:20pm

luvgirl

edit
[Edited 12/12/16 5:03am]
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Reply #23 posted 12/12/16 12:51am

TheEnglishGent

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How long did his recent albums spend on the charts? I'm not so sure that 4ever hasn't sold well because it's a greatest hits, more that cd's etc don't sell like they used to and people whoe buy music really aren't that bothered about Prince.

It's sad but true. I wouldn't expect an album of new stuff to do much better.

RIP sad
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Reply #24 posted 12/12/16 12:58am

EmmaMcG

TheEnglishGent said:

How long did his recent albums spend on the charts? I'm not so sure that 4ever hasn't sold well because it's a greatest hits, more that cd's etc don't sell like they used to and people whoe buy music really aren't that bothered about Prince.

It's sad but true. I wouldn't expect an album of new stuff to do much better.



It may not do MUCH better but I can say that for me, it's something I would buy. And given the media attention around his vault after he died, I'd say there are others who'd be more interested in hearing that stuff than buying yet another greatest hits compilation of songs they already have.
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Reply #25 posted 12/12/16 4:01am

TheEnglishGent

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EmmaMcG said:

TheEnglishGent said:

How long did his recent albums spend on the charts? I'm not so sure that 4ever hasn't sold well because it's a greatest hits, more that cd's etc don't sell like they used to and people whoe buy music really aren't that bothered about Prince.

It's sad but true. I wouldn't expect an album of new stuff to do much better.

It may not do MUCH better but I can say that for me, it's something I would buy. And given the media attention around his vault after he died, I'd say there are others who'd be more interested in hearing that stuff than buying yet another greatest hits compilation of songs they already have.


I'd certainly prefer and am really looking forward to vault releases, but I still don't think we're looking at chart success.

RIP sad
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Reply #26 posted 12/12/16 5:18am

EmmaMcG

TheEnglishGent said:



EmmaMcG said:


TheEnglishGent said:

How long did his recent albums spend on the charts? I'm not so sure that 4ever hasn't sold well because it's a greatest hits, more that cd's etc don't sell like they used to and people whoe buy music really aren't that bothered about Prince.

It's sad but true. I wouldn't expect an album of new stuff to do much better.



It may not do MUCH better but I can say that for me, it's something I would buy. And given the media attention around his vault after he died, I'd say there are others who'd be more interested in hearing that stuff than buying yet another greatest hits compilation of songs they already have.


I'd certainly prefer and am really looking forward to vault releases, but I still don't think we're looking at chart success.



It depends on what is considered success but I'm not too interested in sales. I just hope whatever is released sells enough to warrant releasing more. smile
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Reply #27 posted 12/12/16 7:36am

TheEnglishGent

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EmmaMcG said:

TheEnglishGent said:


I'd certainly prefer and am really looking forward to vault releases, but I still don't think we're looking at chart success.

It depends on what is considered success but I'm not too interested in sales. I just hope whatever is released sells enough to warrant releasing more. smile


Yes! I want it all biggrin

RIP sad
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