I wasn't try to stereotype men. Its just that the men in my life are always saying things like "this is what you need to do" or "you can't change it so don't fret it" when sometimes I just want to vent. I feel better now...

PeteSilas said:

no she's a woman who just like's minimizing everything. I don't like negative journalism either but it doesn't ruin my day. I just think the misinformation spread doesn't do anyone any good, and I'm talking mainly the people who might want to learn from the lives of great men.

Militant said:

It's one guy's article in one city.

Hearing just ONE Prince song on the radio, to a new person unfamiliar with his work, is worth 100,000 newspaper articles.

And Prince knew that. And just hearing that one song will set people off down the rabbit hole that ends up where we've all been for years - the understanding that he was without peer. That he musically towered above everybody.

Prince doesn't need awards, or praise from random-ass journalists. Even Paisley Park the museum is simply an addendum to his life's work and legacy.

The music will always speak, and I hear and see his influence all over the place.

You don't need to feel bummed out. Prince's career was always about peaks and valleys. He was a divisive person. One year you'd get Purple Rain and another year you'd get 3 Chains O' Gold. One year you'd get N.E.W.S pushing out a few thousand copies and the next year you might get Musicology and the highest grossing tour of the year.

So it's kind of apt that in death things are the same. Right now, you feel sad about his legacy, but who knows - in a few months time when Purple Rain Deluxe comes out, perhaps WB will put a ton of money behind it and you'll be seeing it everywhere, and many many new people will be discovering Prince for the first time.

Prince's legacy is a complex thing. But right now you're just cherry picking a few things. Ultimately who the fuck cares about the 2017 Grammy Awards? Who the fuck cares about some random journo in Chicago? These things don't matter.

The Celebration is sold out. Lots of people are going to Paisley and enjoying it. Purple Rain deluxe is coming.

If you feel like his life was sad, that sounds like projection. The man is one of the most iconic and celebrated artists of all time. He was worth millions of dollars for basically his entire life, had the freedom to do what he wanted, slept with probably hundreds of beautiful women, worked with dozens of amazing musicians, saw and performed in a huge chunk of the world, fought and won some huge battles with the system, donated tens of millions to charities and saw the impact that that had..............I mean, what else can you really ask for in life? It's sad that he didn't get to have a family, it's sad that neither of his marriages lasted and it's sad that he succumbed to the disease of addiction that has claimed so many lives.

But let's not paint his life as a tragic figure. The man was worshipped by millions, and on his less humble days - he fucking RELISHED that. Trust me. I met him. And the man was happy.

If you want to talk about tragic figures, people that were mistreated by everyone, people that desperately needed help and didn't get it, people whose legacy is still getting attacked and torn up after death, take a look at the man who people see as Prince's biggest rival.

As for that lame word, "relevance". Well - they justified that lame-ass Madonna tribute by saying she was relevant, and that folks like Sheila E weren't. Compare Madonna's tribute to Sheila's, and we can talk about how relevance means jack.

Worry not!! Prince's peerless legacy is set. No one can change that. And, folks can say what they want to about Paisley Park, but the fact that young Prince, not yet thirty, had the vision and foresight to build that vast recording complex is nothing less than astounding. The fact is, because of the stand that he took to fight for ownership of his masters, he made a lot of enemies in the music industry. At this point, my only concern is his estate's shepherding of P's entertainment empire, which encompasses music and film. Truth be told, Prince left behind a billion dollar estate.

purplerabbithole said:

Why was his life sad? God, I hope half this stuff is not true but if we believed everything said or speculated about him....

--he died at 57 years old alone in an elevator (that's confirmable obviously)

--half of his music wasn't listened to and some people think he was dried up by the time he turned 32 or so.

--he didn't seem to be able to have kids

--according to some people, he didn't even seem to have any real friends (all just synchophantic and frightened employees and females proteges using him for his connections/status)

--apparently, his parents abandoned him.

--he had a nasty and according to some long term drug addiction

--his subtle cruelty (probably a result of insecurity and abandonment issues) drove away potential friends.

--some people claimed to like him but I am not so sure they really did (if Tommy is to be believed).

--according to some folks (tommy) no one was close to Prince (kind of the same as above).

--he was in a religious cult that sapped him of his freedom of expression

--he worked non-stop

--music was a curse rather than a blessing

--he was an untreated autistic savant

--he suffered horrible hip and ankle pain

--the media and record industries hated him

--the fans loved his music but not so much him.

--he was horribly lonely when not devoid of all feeling entirely

--his epilepsy was returning

--Warner's brothers wanted him dead

--his pills were (without his knowing it) replaced with fentanyl

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole this isn't the first and probably won't be the last crap article about Prince. Best to just ignore and not give it more clicks. I'm not sure why you think P's life was sad. I don't know what would make you feel that way. As far as HNR Phase 2 not getting more Grammy nods...I'm not surprised and I don't think it's because the album wasn't all new material or whatever. I mentioned in the Grammy thread that the most recent studio releases from Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen didn't get Grammy nods either. And McCartney is someone who seems to either be presenting or performing at the Grammys every year now. What I remember is all the love and respect Prince received when he presented last year. Standing ovation from the audience. That means more to me than any award the Grammy suits could give him.

all these things may be true ..but that is not all he was...much more

i don't think all those things are true and many of them we have no way of knowing. I seriously doubt the dude was lonely, I don't think he even liked being around people, something I can understand first hand, i don't like people either and spend too much time avoiding them. as far as his musical decline, that's all subjective. If you don't like anything after purple rain then yes, in your mind he fell off but lots of people liked enough of his music to follow him right up until the end, I know I did and I still loved his stuff. the "decline" thing makes for a good story but sometimes it doesn't have much truth to it, but when the hits stop coming, that's all most people need to see. Fact is, most of the great artists, their very best work is often their most obscure. Sales don't mean everything, if they did, i'd listen to top forty radio instead of Prince.

He performed to a sold out crowd until he died, so I'm not sure of that "decline" situation this writer is talking about.

paisleyparkgirl said:

He performed to a sold out crowd until he died, so I'm not sure of that "decline" situation this writer is talking about.

He remained an outstanding live performer, but (and it's highly subjective) the quality of his recorded work had been in decline for a long time. HNR2 is probably his best album for years, but it isn't a patch on anything he released in the first 10 - 15 years of his career.

Lianachan said:

HNR2 is Garbage.. lets keep it real...

Lianachan said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

He performed to a sold out crowd until he died, so I'm not sure of that "decline" situation this writer is talking about.

He remained an outstanding live performer, but (and it's highly subjective) the quality of his recorded work had been in decline for a long time. is probably his best album for years, but it isn't a patch on anything he released in the first 10 - 15 years of his career.

MD431Madcat said:

HNR2 is Garbage.. lets keep it real...

Lianachan said:

He remained an outstanding live performer, but (and it's highly subjective) the quality of his recorded work had been in decline for a long time. is probably his best album for years, but it isn't a patch on anything he released in the first 10 - 15 years of his career.

Perhaps if you took the time to elaborate I might have some respect for your opinion but, as it stands, it baffles me how you can label the album nothing but "garbage". Maybe everything you're able to say is contained in that wink.

airth said:

MD431Madcat said:

HNR2 is Garbage.. lets keep it real...

Perhaps if you took the time to elaborate I might have some respect for your opinion but, as it stands, it baffles me how you can label the album nothing but "garbage". Maybe everything you're able to say is contained in that wink.

He probably hasn't even listened to it.

PeteSilas said:

i don't think all those things are true and many of them we have no way of knowing. I seriously doubt the dude was lonely, I don't think he even liked being around people, something I can understand first hand, i don't like people either and spend too much time avoiding them. as far as his musical decline, that's all subjective. If you don't like anything after purple rain then yes, in your mind he fell off but lots of people liked enough of his music to follow him right up until the end, I know I did and I still loved his stuff. the "decline" thing makes for a good story but sometimes it doesn't have much truth to it, but when the hits stop coming, that's all most people need to see. Fact is, most of the great artists, their very best work is often their most obscure. Sales don't mean everything, if they did, i'd listen to top forty radio instead of Prince.

Well said.

Lianachan said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

He performed to a sold out crowd until he died, so I'm not sure of that "decline" situation this writer is talking about.

He remained an outstanding live performer, but (and it's highly subjective) the quality of his recorded work had been in decline for a long time. HNR2 is probably his best album for years, but it isn't a patch on anything he released in the first 10 - 15 years of his career.

I can only speak for myself but I don't think he ever lost a thing, he got better as a musician and he got better with his use of the studio, the music got clearer and sharper in the 90's and his voice was also improving. I never take the "best album in years" talk because I've been hearing it since the 80's. I'm sure you can find the reviews online about how Lovesexy was "his best album since Dirty Mind" and how with Diamonds and Pearls "he's back" and on and on. People never consider that maybe they just end up taking the guy for granted and it hasn't stopped even after his death.

PeteSilas said:

rogifan said:

PeteSilas said:

I can only speak for myself but I don't think he ever lost a thing, he got better as a musician and he got better with his use of the studio, the music got clearer and sharper in the 90's and his voice was also improving. I never take the "best album in years" talk because I've been hearing it since the 80's. I'm sure you can find the reviews online about how Lovesexy was "his best album since Dirty Mind" and how with Diamonds and Pearls "he's back" and on and on. People never consider that maybe they just end up taking the guy for granted and it hasn't stopped even after his death.

I'd listen to Black Muse any day over Cream or D&P. In fact it bugs me that he played Cream so much in live shows because I hate that song.

cream and D&p are not on my personal list of "Prince hits" but they were hits. Lots of songs I like better, lots. I'm just grateful he never let that talk get to him and just kept on working. Being a "hit" doesn't really mean that much to me personally. Some of the most astonishing music I've heard is totally forgotten about. Paul Simon had some fantastic shit on "songs from the capeman" but no one even listened. It happens. Sales and popularity are only a piece of measuring greatness and not a very good yardstick.

PeteSilas said:

rogifan said:

PeteSilas said: I'd listen to Black Muse any day over Cream or D&P. In fact it bugs me that he played Cream so much in live shows because I hate that song.

cream and D&p are not on my personal list of "Prince hits" but they were hits. Lots of songs I like better, lots. I'm just grateful he never let that talk get to him and just kept on working. Being a "hit" doesn't really mean that much to me personally. Some of the most astonishing music I've heard is totally forgotten about. Paul Simon had some fantastic shit on "songs from the capeman" but no one even listened. It happens. Sales and popularity are only a piece of measuring greatness and not a very good yardstick.

purplethunder3121 said:

airth said:

Perhaps if you took the time to elaborate I might have some respect for your opinion but, as it stands, it baffles me how you can label the album nothing but "garbage". Maybe everything you're able to say is contained in that wink.

He probably hasn't even listened to it.

Probably not the CD received great reviews when it came out and it is one of his best.

purplerabbithole said:

First the complete and utter snub of Prince at the Grammy's. (I don't count the engineering nomination--that is a slap in the face). I take some comfort in the fact that Bowie's album was considered one of his best and the narrative surrounding the album (he wrote parts of it about his impending death) led to its recognition. But I still think the Grammy's dropped the ball here.

On top of the that, the Chicago Tribune's article about visiting Paisley Park called Prince a narcassistic control freak and novelty act (and that his work has been in major decline since the 80's).

http://www.chicagotribune...lumn.html

The title actually makes you think it is sympathetic but it is completely not. You probably think I am overreacting but if anyone can find anything really positive about this article, let me know.

Prince died basically in order to keep producing music and this writer makes him out to be a joke (at least for the last 30 years) similar to later day Elvis Presley and he based part of his assessment of Prince's musical output on the tackiness of Paisley Park. Of course, the asshat doesnt mention Prince's gorgeous Turks and Caico's home...only some lakefront property.

He says he used to worship Prince but it sounds like he hasn't listened to him since 1989 and thinks Prince lost his coolness when he stopped cussing.. He sounds pissed rather than sad. Uppity and disappointed rather than sympathetic. It disses on the jazz music Prince was working on but says nothing about the live footage of the Piano and Microphone tour that is supposedly being played Paisley. Prince kept a 65,000 square foot mini-recording studio running for 30 years and he acted like it was nothing. He made some mistakes and his music at times was hit and miss, but he was constantly creating. He wasn't remaking Purple Rain over and over again--talk about nostalgic act.

Also, the dude seems to think that previous bandmates were able to tell Prince when his music sucked. Really? I am pretty sure Prince always ran the show.

Oh, and the one hope for further relevancy for Prince this week came when the vault released Susan Roger's favorite "unheard" Prince song and no one seemed to care.

God, something needs to shake things up again so that his work is given the recognition it deserves. It doesn't need to be as irrevelent as it is becoming.

Depressing.

[Edited 12/6/16 15:03pm]

[Edited 12/6/16 15:08pm]

That's why every concert Prince did after 1989 SOLD OUT. Including Musicology tour in 2004. It made over 50 millon dollars. Don't listen to every person who writes an article. It is only their opinion. Consider the source.

Militant said:

purplerabbithole said:

Why was his life sad? God, I hope half this stuff is not true but if we believed everything said or speculated about him....

--he died at 57 years old alone in an elevator (that's confirmable obviously)

--half of his music wasn't listened to and some people think he was dried up by the time he turned 32 or so.

--he didn't seem to be able to have kids

--according to some people, he didn't even seem to have any real friends (all just synchophantic and frightened employees and females proteges using him for his connections/status)

--apparently, his parents abandoned him.

--he had a nasty and according to some long term drug addiction

--his subtle cruelty (probably a result of insecurity and abandonment issues) drove away potential friends.

--some people claimed to like him but I am not so sure they really did (if Tommy is to be believed).

--according to some folks (tommy) no one was close to Prince (kind of the same as above).

--he was in a religious cult that sapped him of his freedom of expression

--he worked non-stop

--music was a curse rather than a blessing

--he was an untreated autistic savant

--he suffered horrible hip and ankle pain

--the media and record industries hated him

--the fans loved his music but not so much him.

--he was horribly lonely when not devoid of all feeling entirely

--his epilepsy was returning

--Warner's brothers wanted him dead

--his pills were (without his knowing it) replaced with fentanyl

"I just can't believe..... all the things people say."

The circumstances of his death do not mean that his life was sad.

Half of his music wasn't listened to...... by who? 3121 sold a million records. Musicology sold 2.5 million. The man made 25 albums that were certified either Gold, Platinum or Diamond. And some of the ones that didn't sell a lot were niche records, that if anyone else had made, would have sold basically nothing. Who else could sell 300,000 copies of an album like The Rainbow Children? And besides all of that - Prince's motivation for releasing albums was rarely about shifting units. Look at his decision to release ATWIAD less than a year after Purple Rain with no single, until WB forced him to do Raspberry Beret as a single. Another year of promoting Purple Rain could have pushed another 5-10 million sales, at least! But he wasn't about that.

Yes, the children thing is sad. As for friends, Kirky J was around him for over 30 years. I also suggest you read Apollonia and Jill's reports about the time they spent with him at the beginning of the year.

His parents? Well, he maintained love and respect for them and he probably felt they did the best they could. Addiction is sad no matter who suffers from it.

The idea that nobody was close to him is certifiable nonsense. His faith may have brought him personal comfort - that's not our place to judge. Making music for Prince was not "working" - it was what he loved to do. Untreated savant? Maybe - nobody knows. Pain? Yes. Sad. Lots of people have chronic pain and still live overall happy lives.

The media and record industries did not hate him. He had the blessing of working with literally every label out there? WB, Sony, EMI, Universal, all of them!

The fans loved him, we always did. That is a stone-cold lie to suggest that we didn't. Obviously I can't speak for everyone but there are SO many, countless examples of how much we loved and still love him and he KNEW we did.

Lonely? No possible way you can know that.

Epilepsy returning? Total conjecture on your part.

WB wanted him dead? Nonsense.

Pills replaced without him knowing? I don't buy it. Who had access to them but him? On the plane and at Paisley? I see no evidence for a conspiracy.

There are WAY more reasons to celebrate Prince and his legacy than to feel sad. Way, way more. He changed all of our lives. He was loved and he knew he was loved.

He just always insisted on doing things his way. Sometimes that worked out for the better and sometimes for the worse. That was Prince, and we loved him for it.

I know that you only registered here 2 months ago. For those of us that have been here for over a decade, your position is a little hard to understand. It was different when he was here, and it wasn't the picture that you're painting.

This, thanks. Those other arguments sound like someone who don't like Prince that much.

Wlcm2thdwn3 said:

Opinions are like A**holes and sometimes they stink.

Ughh couldn't use a nicer example?

rogifan said:

Lianachan said:

He remained an outstanding live performer, but (and it's highly subjective) the quality of his recorded work had been in decline for a long time. HNR2 is probably his best album for years, but it isn't a patch on anything he released in the first 10 - 15 years of his career.

You could say that about a lot of artists though. And like you say it's highly subjective. As a performer people wanted to see Prince was never on the decline. If they were referring to his studio albums then they should have specified that.

It's just commercial decline, that's what they always talk about; some people believe that commercial decline means that is the same as artistic decline, but of course we now it isn't.

rogifan said:

morningsong said:

Try not to be too sensative. 99% of this article is regurgitation of things that other writers have already said. I think there is disappointment at the lack of enough scandal.

Isn't that the truth. There's nothing sad about Prince or the life he led. MJ was the sad/tragic figure.

I am a fan of both MJ and Prince. Ever since Prince's death, I have become a bigger fan of Prince.

--

Michael Jackson had a reputation, even at the time of his death, of being troubled, due to the dramatic changes in his appearance, the sexual abuse scandals, and his overall persona. He didn't tour much. He was constantly in the tabloids.

--

Prince may not have been as popular later in life as MJ or as "mainstream," even though he (P) was a household name. He has not had an album that received as much radio play as MJ's Invicible did, for example. Perhaps this had to do with P shunning major labels. But Prince's Super Bowl performance was incredible, and still regarded as one of the best, if not the best, of all time. He stayed out of the tabloids. He would steal the show at award shows just by presenting. I remember being excited one time to see Prince on TV. I checked my Facebook timeline and it was in 2015 when he presented at the Grammys that I wrote "PRINCE!!!" on my Facebook timeline. P commanded profound respect throughout the music industry and among the public in general, and without all of the baggage that MJ had (e.g. the sexual abuse allegations, drastic change in appearance and plastic surgery).

--

As much as I love MJ's music, I have a hard time embracing him the way I embrace Prince. What troubles me most about him is the sexual abuse allegations. The sexual abuse allegations have not gone away, even after his death. Some of the allegations are tabloid fodder, some appear to be legit. When I has in high school and college, I was really into MJ's music and I knew about the sexual abuse, and they bothered me, but I tried to not let that get in the way of my MJ fandom. Now that I'm older, I can't put the sexual abuse allegations to the side. I'm a teacher, and the fact that I work with kids makes the allegations of sexual abuse really hard for me to ignore. I've seen kids who exhibit really troubling aggressive and attention-seeking behaviors due to trauma, neglect, abuse, or the like. I'm convinced that MJ paid off some of the victims.

--

With Prince, there's none of the sexual abuse allegations. Was there infidelity? Yes. But that's nowhere close to as egregious as sexual abuse. The controversy with P was much more about his music. Darling Nikki was his music. Writing "slave" on his face, that had to do with his music. The situation with not being forthright about his son's death doesn't bother me because that is such a traumatic experience and I give he and Mayte a pass for that. The more I learn about Prince, with everything he gave to charity, the way that he helped mentor younger artists, the more I like him.

Militant said:

purplerabbithole said:

You know I think Tommy Barbarello's comments in his St.Paul interview (written version) is what triggered this sadness. (and the Leeds seem to agree with him.)

He said that no one who claimed they were close to Prince was telling the truth. That is awfully sad to imagine. Living your entire life without one close friend. Not one. Money, fame, and sex don't mean shit if you don't have connections to your fellow man or woman--even if they are fleeting or temporary or even somewhat limited, those connections must be there. It made me question every nice comment I read about Prince from his associates.

It's worth remembering that Tommy spent no time with Prince in the last 20 years, neither did Alan Leeds. I don't think it's fair to take their opinions as gospel. Prince mellowed out a LOT. Especially in the last decade.

Prince did have close friends at the end of his life...Kirk Johnson, Damaris Lewis, Tamron Hall, among others.

jaawwnn said:

Prince in his final years; getting older and older than the 21 year old girls he always surrounded himself with; his friends who were almost all employees on his pay-roll; or just alone late at night in Paisley Park, did strike me as the image of a lonely man. I think he made choices that put his art above personal relationships many years ago.

I do think he was true to himself though, for better and for worse, and that's something to be admired. I agree he had mellowed a lot in the last 10 years, it reminds me of the stories of the last decade of Miles Davis life, where Miles was just happy to be playing music and not constantly raging as he tried to change the world.

I think it was possible Prince was both happy to be playing music and a bit lonely that he was out where he was, at an almost existential level, on his own, you know? None of us know for sure, and i'm suspicious of anyone who thinks they can speak for him, happiness is hard to find for everyone.

206Michelle said:

Loved both Elvis Presley and Prince.

Both wonderful, brilliant artists, and what facinating lifes they had.

Most all artists have a peak in their careers. It is the staying power of their work that make them iconic.

Prince was so amazing to watch live, a true genius musically and continued to create until his death.

I've been to Graceland and I hope to one day get to Paisley Park. I truly think it is too early yet to realize just how much his legacy will continue to grow.