First the complete and utter snub of Prince at the Grammy's. (I don't count the engineering nomination--that is a slap in the face). I take some comfort in the fact that Bowie's album was considered one of his best and the narrative surrounding the album (he wrote parts of it about his impending death) led to its recognition. But I still think the Grammy's dropped the ball here.

On top of the that, the Chicago Tribune's article about visiting Paisley Park called Prince a narcassistic control freak and novelty act (and that his work has been in major decline since the 80's).

http://www.chicagotribune...lumn.html

The title actually makes you think it is sympathetic but it is completely not. You probably think I am overreacting but if anyone can find anything really positive about this article, let me know.

Prince died basically in order to keep producing music and this writer makes him out to be a joke (at least for the last 30 years) similar to later day Elvis Presley and he based part of his assessment of Prince's musical output on the tackiness of Paisley Park. Of course, the asshat doesnt mention Prince's gorgeous Turks and Caico's home...only some lakefront property.

He says he used to worship Prince but it sounds like he hasn't listened to him since 1989 and thinks Prince lost his coolness when he stopped cussing.. He sounds pissed rather than sad. Uppity and disappointed rather than sympathetic. It disses on the jazz music Prince was working on but says nothing about the live footage of the Piano and Microphone tour that is supposedly being played Paisley. Prince kept a 65,000 square foot mini-recording studio running for 30 years and he acted like it was nothing. He made some mistakes and his music at times was hit and miss, but he was constantly creating. He wasn't remaking Purple Rain over and over again--talk about nostalgic act.

Also, the dude seems to think that previous bandmates were able to tell Prince when his music sucked. Really? I am pretty sure Prince always ran the show.

Oh, and the one hope for further relevancy for Prince this week came when the vault released Susan Roger's favorite "unheard" Prince song and no one seemed to care.

God, something needs to shake things up again so that his work is given the recognition it deserves. It doesn't need to be as irrevelent as it is becoming.

Depressing.

[Edited 12/6/16 15:03pm]

[Edited 12/6/16 15:08pm]

Horrible right.

I am not saying that Paisley isn't a bit cheesy, but it is a recording studio and museum. NOt his home. Its for his fans now. That guy is a like a disgruntled ex-fan. If Prince was interested in just being nostalgic, he would have released Purple Rain like albums for the rest of his life.

BillieBalloon said:

If you look up the word patronising in a dictionary it has this guys mug shot next to it, I'm sure.

I think you might be over-reacting to the Grammy situation. Remember who sang "I don't care to win awards?"

Some of the material on HNR2 was 4 years old and previously released. It included a remake of a 30 year old song and then next to it, newly recorded ones, plus some others that had already been one-off web releases like Baltimore and 2Y2D. It's great, but hardly a cohesive album - just a mish-mash collection of tracks ranging from good-to-great.

Based on all that I'm not surprised at the Grammy situation, plus the fact that Prince released better albums in the past that got ignored completely. A Grammy win in any category, which he'll likely get, will be a nice acknowledgment to an album that will simply go down in history as his last. Not that I don't love it, but it's hardly going to share a space with PR, SOTT, or even 3121.

Even HNR1 has the USP of being co-produced by Josh, and for trying something new which hugely divided us all at the time. HNR1 was where Prince's head was at - HNR2 was an afterthought, and this is proven by the leaks of the final band rehearsing - MonoNeon, Kirky J et al were rehearsing things like "Million Dollar Show", and "Ain't About To Stop".

But I'm wondering whether that album went over people's heads. It certainly seemed to for even many in the fanbase, but that's just my personal opinion and I don't fancy getting into a dust-up (again) with people who didn't like it.

As for that article, meh. Just one guy's opinion. I haven't been to PP yet but I'm sure I'll get a lot more out of it than he did. Ultimately, he still recommends going. Some of his criticisms feel like he wasn't massively familiar with Prince's recent work - that's ultimately his loss more than anything.

As for Moonbeam Levels, I'm not sure what you expected. WB could have pushed it harder, sure. But it's ultimately an untouched song from almost 35 years ago. And a power ballad. I'm happy it saw an official release, but I didn't expect it to rocket up the charts.

Seriously, it's the grammys.

As for the article, i'd largely agree with it (where does he call prince a "novelty act" in it btw?).
His summary at the end:

What Prince created here was complicated, an elaborate system for reassuring himself he was still the king, even as he shifted from iconoclastic superstar to nostalgia act. He seemed to surround himself with a web of employees who met his whims and allowed room to create whatever he dreamed up but probably couldn't offer much in the way of criticism.

rings true to these ears, with the caveat that people who expected a nostalgia act when they bought a ticket were always blown away by the live shows.

He was still a star but only the really devoted were still listening, and that's ok. Prince wrote oodles of great music post WB, most people are yet to hear it, this is a fact. I always found it kind of cool that only those of us willing to put in the work (and put up with whatever headaches he threw our way) could really appreciate his expansiveness. We all know of shows that were 90% celebrities and hangers on where something really amazing happened and maybe only 20 people there got it. I'll miss that when (if) all the remasters are laid out on a plate for everyone to listen to.

I am just bummed out and feeling like P's life after the 80's was ultimately a waste. Maybe he just needed to stop making music no one was going to listen to (except for maybe ardent fans) and get physical and psychological help years ago? As good as a lot of his later music was, was it worth the toll it took on him and the people who worked for him and associated with him?

As for Hit and Run phase 2, I like that album a lot and would see your point if it weren't for the fact that Prince had just died. Usually, sentimentality would have given other artists the edge a bit.

Militant said:

I think you might be over-reacting to the Grammy situation. Remember who sang "I don't care to win awards?"

Some of the material on HNR2 was 4 years old and previously released. It included a remake of a 30 year old song and then next to it, newly recorded ones, plus some others that had already been one-off web releases like Baltimore and 2Y2D. It's great, but hardly a cohesive album - just a mish-mash collection of tracks ranging from good-to-great.

Based on all that I'm not surprised at the Grammy situation, plus the fact that Prince released better albums in the past that got ignored completely. A Grammy win in any category, which he'll likely get, will be a nice acknowledgment to an album that will simply go down in history as his last. Not that I don't love it, but it's hardly going to share a space with PR, SOTT, or even 3121.

Even HNR1 has the USP of being co-produced by Josh, and for trying something new which hugely divided us all at the time. HNR1 was where Prince's head was at - HNR2 was an afterthought, and this is proven by the leaks of the final band rehearsing - MonoNeon, Kirky J et al were rehearsing things like "Million Dollar Show", and "Ain't About To Stop".

But I'm wondering whether that album went over people's heads. It certainly seemed to for even many in the fanbase, but that's just my personal opinion and I don't fancy getting into a dust-up (again) with people who didn't like it.

As for that article, meh. Just one guy's opinion. I haven't been to PP yet but I'm sure I'll get a lot more out of it than he did. Ultimately, he still recommends going. Some of his criticisms feel like he wasn't massively familiar with Prince's recent work - that's ultimately his loss more than anything.

As for Moonbeam Levels, I'm not sure what you expected. WB could have pushed it harder, sure. But it's ultimately an untouched song from almost 35 years ago. And a power ballad. I'm happy it saw an official release, but I didn't expect it to rocket up the charts.

I meant nostalgic act.

jaawwnn said:

Seriously, it's the grammys.

As for the article, i'd largely agree with it (where does he call prince a "novelty act" in it btw?).
His summary at the end:

What Prince created here was complicated, an elaborate system for reassuring himself he was still the king, even as he shifted from iconoclastic superstar to nostalgia act. He seemed to surround himself with a web of employees who met his whims and allowed room to create whatever he dreamed up but probably couldn't offer much in the way of criticism.

rings true to these ears, with the caveat that people who expected a nostalgia act when they bought a ticket were always blown away by the live shows.

He was still a star but only the really devoted were still listening, and that's ok. Prince wrote oodles of great music post WB, most people are yet to hear it, this is a fact. I always found it kind of cool that only those of us willing to put in the work (and put up with whatever headaches he threw our way) could really appreciate his expansiveness. We all know of shows that were 90% celebrities and hangers on where something really amazing happened and maybe only 20 people there got it. I'll miss that when (if) all the remasters are laid out on a plate for everyone to listen to.

[Edited 12/6/16 16:46pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I am not saying I agree with that notion. I am saying that his life seems sad and the sacrifices he and others made seem unappreciated. Maybe he was an undiagnosed autistic savant who needed real care rather than artistic indulgences. I think this is first time his death ever really depressed me and it might be because learning his music felt like getting to know him and now as his relevancy starts to fade again (and his music perhaps starts getting pulled again from the internet and record shelves due to a lack of interest) and my notions of his humanity are sorely tested, I feel a weird kind of loss. Its bumming me out so maybe I am overreacting to things like the Grammy's and snarky articles. Was all his effort for nothing other than temporary happiness on stage or in a studio?

GimmeThat said:

purplerabbithole said:

I am just bummed out and feeling like P's life after the 80's was ultimately a waste. Maybe he just needed to stop making music no one was going to listen to (except for maybe ardent fans) and get physical and psychological help years ago? As good as a lot of his later music was, was it worth the toll it took on him and the people who worked for him and associated with him?

As for Hit and Run phase 2, I like that album a lot and would see your point if it weren't for the fact that Prince had just died. Usually, sentimentality would have given other artists the edge a bit.

His life after the 80's was a waste? That is harsh beyond belief.

[Edited 12/6/16 17:47pm]

There's nothing in the article that upset me. I would agree that Paisley Park opened too soon and lacks real insight into the man; that Prince was narcissistic and controlling; that the purple tunics make the wearers look like cult members; that the tacked-on shop and restaurant are not really up to par; that he probably didn't get much criticism from those around him; and that the world was largely indifferent to the latter part of his career.

Prince peaked in the eighties as a recording artist. But that doesn't make his subsequent work worthless in any way. While the article mentions a decline, I didn't feel the author was implying everything post eighties was a waste.

Militant said:

I think you might be over-reacting to the Grammy situation. Remember who sang "I don't care to win awards?"

Some of the material on HNR2 was 4 years old and previously released. It included a remake of a 30 year old song and then next to it, newly recorded ones, plus some others that had already been one-off web releases like Baltimore and 2Y2D. It's great, but hardly a cohesive album - just a mish-mash collection of tracks ranging from good-to-great.

Based on all that I'm not surprised at the Grammy situation, plus the fact that Prince released better albums in the past that got ignored completely. A Grammy win in any category, which he'll likely get, will be a nice acknowledgment to an album that will simply go down in history as his last. Not that I don't love it, but it's hardly going to share a space with PR, SOTT, or even 3121.

Even HNR1 has the USP of being co-produced by Josh, and for trying something new which hugely divided us all at the time. HNR1 was where Prince's head was at - HNR2 was an afterthought, and this is proven by the leaks of the final band rehearsing - MonoNeon, Kirky J et al were rehearsing things like "Million Dollar Show", and "Ain't About To Stop".

But I'm wondering whether that album went over people's heads. It certainly seemed to for even many in the fanbase, but that's just my personal opinion and I don't fancy getting into a dust-up (again) with people who didn't like it.

As for that article, meh. Just one guy's opinion. I haven't been to PP yet but I'm sure I'll get a lot more out of it than he did. Ultimately, he still recommends going. Some of his criticisms feel like he wasn't massively familiar with Prince's recent work - that's ultimately his loss more than anything.

As for Moonbeam Levels, I'm not sure what you expected. WB could have pushed it harder, sure. But it's ultimately an untouched song from almost 35 years ago. And a power ballad. I'm happy it saw an official release, but I didn't expect it to rocket up the charts.

Some of the material on HNR2 was 4 years old and previously released.

And it still was the best Rnb CD of the year. This should have been nominated for me then engineering/ They CD should have at least been in the Traditional RnB catorgory. Most of the public had no idea that some of the songs were around for years as Prince had been doing that his entire carreer. On the upside I doubt he cared much at this point in his life. He knew he was blackballed a long time ago.

I get it. You don't like Prince as a human being.

Its what he left out that implies a great deal. He takes the time to point out P's flaws but never mentions any good traits. He takes the time to point out his 'artistic decline' but never points out any later day gems. HOw else would a newbie think about Prince after reading that article?

\

airth said:

There's nothing in the article that upset me. I would agree that Paisley Park opened too soon and lacks real insight into the man; that Prince was narcissistic and controlling; that the purple tunics make the wearers look like cult members; that the tacked-on shop and restaurant are not really up to par; that he probably didn't get much criticism from those around him; and that the world was largely indifferent to the latter part of his career.

Prince peaked in the eighties as a recording artist. But that doesn't make his subsequent work worthless in any way. While the article mentions a decline, I didn't feel the author was implying everything post eighties was a waste.

airth said:

Try not to be too sensative. 99% of this article is regurgitation of things that other writers have already said. I think there is disappointment at the lack of enough scandal.

It's one guy's article in one city.

Hearing just ONE Prince song on the radio, to a new person unfamiliar with his work, is worth 100,000 newspaper articles.

And Prince knew that. And just hearing that one song will set people off down the rabbit hole that ends up where we've all been for years - the understanding that he was without peer. That he musically towered above everybody.

Prince doesn't need awards, or praise from random-ass journalists. Even Paisley Park the museum is simply an addendum to his life's work and legacy.

The music will always speak, and I hear and see his influence all over the place.

You don't need to feel bummed out. Prince's career was always about peaks and valleys. He was a divisive person. One year you'd get Purple Rain and another year you'd get 3 Chains O' Gold. One year you'd get N.E.W.S pushing out a few thousand copies and the next year you might get Musicology and the highest grossing tour of the year.

So it's kind of apt that in death things are the same. Right now, you feel sad about his legacy, but who knows - in a few months time when Purple Rain Deluxe comes out, perhaps WB will put a ton of money behind it and you'll be seeing it everywhere, and many many new people will be discovering Prince for the first time.

Prince's legacy is a complex thing. But right now you're just cherry picking a few things. Ultimately who the fuck cares about the 2017 Grammy Awards? Who the fuck cares about some random journo in Chicago? These things don't matter.

The Celebration is sold out. Lots of people are going to Paisley and enjoying it. Purple Rain deluxe is coming.

If you feel like his life was sad, that sounds like projection. The man is one of the most iconic and celebrated artists of all time. He was worth millions of dollars for basically his entire life, had the freedom to do what he wanted, slept with probably hundreds of beautiful women, worked with dozens of amazing musicians, saw and performed in a huge chunk of the world, fought and won some huge battles with the system, donated tens of millions to charities and saw the impact that that had..............I mean, what else can you really ask for in life? It's sad that he didn't get to have a family, it's sad that neither of his marriages lasted and it's sad that he succumbed to the disease of addiction that has claimed so many lives.

But let's not paint his life as a tragic figure. The man was worshipped by millions, and on his less humble days - he fucking RELISHED that. Trust me. I met him. And the man was happy.

If you want to talk about tragic figures, people that were mistreated by everyone, people that desperately needed help and didn't get it, people whose legacy is still getting attacked and torn up after death, take a look at the man who people see as Prince's biggest rival.

As for that lame word, "relevance". Well - they justified that lame-ass Madonna tribute by saying she was relevant, and that folks like Sheila E weren't. Compare Madonna's tribute to Sheila's, and we can talk about how relevance means jack.

Why was his life sad? God, I hope half this stuff is not true but if we believed everything said or speculated about him....

--he died at 57 years old alone in an elevator (that's confirmable obviously)

--half of his music wasn't listened to and some people think he was dried up by the time he turned 32 or so.

--he didn't seem to be able to have kids

--according to some people, he didn't even seem to have any real friends (all just synchophantic and frightened employees and females proteges using him for his connections/status)

--apparently, his parents abandoned him.

--he had a nasty and according to some long term drug addiction

--his subtle cruelty (probably a result of insecurity and abandonment issues) drove away potential friends.

--some people claimed to like him but I am not so sure they really did (if Tommy is to be believed).

--according to some folks (tommy) no one was close to Prince (kind of the same as above).

--he was in a religious cult that sapped him of his freedom of expression

--he worked non-stop

--music was a curse rather than a blessing

--he was an untreated autistic savant

--he suffered horrible hip and ankle pain

--the media and record industries hated him

--the fans loved his music but not so much him.

--he was horribly lonely when not devoid of all feeling entirely

--his epilepsy was returning

--Warner's brothers wanted him dead

--his pills were (without his knowing it) replaced with fentanyl

All this stuff (if true) would destroy my notion that his music is some kind of sincere (yet cryptic in Prince's case) mode of personal expression. It would be a farce--there would be no joy in listening to it. And if this music all just goes away due to lack of interest (if all that is left is Purple rain and a couple 80's albums), his life will just be a small footnote.

Yeah, I am bummed out today obviously.

I always like to think that artists have some kind of emotional insight and substance--that their work has a grace and soul that comes from the artist themselves. IF we believed all this shit about Prince, his music would seem like the imitation of soul, grace, love and romance rather than an artistic expression of it. It would be false emotion coming from a vacuum. It would be like thinking that Frank Sinatra (the king of romantic ballad and musical longing) was just a mobster woman-hater. All this seems to challenge the notion that art is at all enlightening.

Sorry for the tangent, but for the first time, all this stuff about P seems either consistently negative or (if at all positive sounding) false. Positivity (that we can believe in) about Prince seems in short supply.

Even Bobby Z's tribute sounded more like a testiment to his talent than to P having any kindness or empathy for his fellow man.

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole this isn't the first and probably won't be the last crap article about Prince. Best to just ignore and not give it more clicks. I'm not sure why you think P's life was sad. I don't know what would make you feel that way. As far as HNR Phase 2 not getting more Grammy nods...I'm not surprised and I don't think it's because the album wasn't all new material or whatever. I mentioned in the Grammy thread that the most recent studio releases from Paul McCartney and Bruce Springsteen didn't get Grammy nods either. And McCartney is someone who seems to either be presenting or performing at the Grammys every year now. What I remember is all the love and respect Prince received when he presented last year. Standing ovation from the audience. That means more to me than any award the Grammy suits could give him.

morningsong said:

Militant said:

It's one guy's article in one city.

Hearing just ONE Prince song on the radio, to a new person unfamiliar with his work, is worth 100,000 newspaper articles.

And Prince knew that. And just hearing that one song will set people off down the rabbit hole that ends up where we've all been for years - the understanding that he was without peer. That he musically towered above everybody.

Prince doesn't need awards, or praise from random-ass journalists. Even Paisley Park the museum is simply an addendum to his life's work and legacy.

The music will always speak, and I hear and see his influence all over the place.

You don't need to feel bummed out. Prince's career was always about peaks and valleys. He was a divisive person. One year you'd get Purple Rain and another year you'd get 3 Chains O' Gold. One year you'd get N.E.W.S pushing out a few thousand copies and the next year you might get Musicology and the highest grossing tour of the year.

So it's kind of apt that in death things are the same. Right now, you feel sad about his legacy, but who knows - in a few months time when Purple Rain Deluxe comes out, perhaps WB will put a ton of money behind it and you'll be seeing it everywhere, and many many new people will be discovering Prince for the first time.

Prince's legacy is a complex thing. But right now you're just cherry picking a few things. Ultimately who the fuck cares about the 2017 Grammy Awards? Who the fuck cares about some random journo in Chicago? These things don't matter.

The Celebration is sold out. Lots of people are going to Paisley and enjoying it. Purple Rain deluxe is coming.

If you feel like his life was sad, that sounds like projection. The man is one of the most iconic and celebrated artists of all time. He was worth millions of dollars for basically his entire life, had the freedom to do what he wanted, slept with probably hundreds of beautiful women, worked with dozens of amazing musicians, saw and performed in a huge chunk of the world, fought and won some huge battles with the system, donated tens of millions to charities and saw the impact that that had..............I mean, what else can you really ask for in life? It's sad that he didn't get to have a family, it's sad that neither of his marriages lasted and it's sad that he succumbed to the disease of addiction that has claimed so many lives.

But let's not paint his life as a tragic figure. The man was worshipped by millions, and on his less humble days - he fucking RELISHED that. Trust me. I met him. And the man was happy.

If you want to talk about tragic figures, people that were mistreated by everyone, people that desperately needed help and didn't get it, people whose legacy is still getting attacked and torn up after death, take a look at the man who people see as Prince's biggest rival.

As for that lame word, "relevance". Well - they justified that lame-ass Madonna tribute by saying she was relevant, and that folks like Sheila E weren't. Compare Madonna's tribute to Sheila's, and we can talk about how relevance means jack.

I like this. Thank you. I couldn't care one iota about this guys article. He's blinded by Purple Rain. You can tell. You can't debate Prince that kind of Purple Rain nostalgia. They'll never get it. Poor thing... It seems he did a frantic research on Prince to quickly write this idiot article... Prince legacy will live on. Through us, through our children...

[Edited 12/7/16 3:53am]

Was he at least polite and relatively normal when you met him?

I agree Michael's situation was sad. but I never related to Michael's work or image so therefore never related to him. I don't want to go down that rabbithole of MIchael Jackson (way too sad).

Militant said:

It's one guy's article in one city.

Hearing just ONE Prince song on the radio, to a new person unfamiliar with his work, is worth 100,000 newspaper articles.

And Prince knew that. And just hearing that one song will set people off down the rabbit hole that ends up where we've all been for years - the understanding that he was without peer. That he musically towered above everybody.

Prince doesn't need awards, or praise from random-ass journalists. Even Paisley Park the museum is simply an addendum to his life's work and legacy.

The music will always speak, and I hear and see his influence all over the place.

You don't need to feel bummed out. Prince's career was always about peaks and valleys. He was a divisive person. One year you'd get Purple Rain and another year you'd get 3 Chains O' Gold. One year you'd get N.E.W.S pushing out a few thousand copies and the next year you might get Musicology and the highest grossing tour of the year.

So it's kind of apt that in death things are the same. Right now, you feel sad about his legacy, but who knows - in a few months time when Purple Rain Deluxe comes out, perhaps WB will put a ton of money behind it and you'll be seeing it everywhere, and many many new people will be discovering Prince for the first time.

Prince's legacy is a complex thing. But right now you're just cherry picking a few things. Ultimately who the fuck cares about the 2017 Grammy Awards? Who the fuck cares about some random journo in Chicago? These things don't matter.

The Celebration is sold out. Lots of people are going to Paisley and enjoying it. Purple Rain deluxe is coming.

If you feel like his life was sad, that sounds like projection. The man is one of the most iconic and celebrated artists of all time. He was worth millions of dollars for basically his entire life, had the freedom to do what he wanted, slept with probably hundreds of beautiful women, worked with dozens of amazing musicians, saw and performed in a huge chunk of the world, fought and won some huge battles with the system, donated tens of millions to charities and saw the impact that that had..............I mean, what else can you really ask for in life? It's sad that he didn't get to have a family, it's sad that neither of his marriages lasted and it's sad that he succumbed to the disease of addiction that has claimed so many lives.

But let's not paint his life as a tragic figure. The man was worshipped by millions, and on his less humble days - he fucking RELISHED that. Trust me. I met him. And the man was happy.

If you want to talk about tragic figures, people that were mistreated by everyone, people that desperately needed help and didn't get it, people whose legacy is still getting attacked and torn up after death, take a look at the man who people see as Prince's biggest rival.

As for that lame word, "relevance". Well - they justified that lame-ass Madonna tribute by saying she was relevant, and that folks like Sheila E weren't. Compare Madonna's tribute to Sheila's, and we can talk about how relevance means jack.

[Edited 12/6/16 18:59pm]

[Edited 12/6/16 19:02pm]

[Edited 12/6/16 19:03pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Why was his life sad? God, I hope half this stuff is not true but if we believed everything said or speculated about him....

--he died at 57 years old alone in an elevator (that's confirmable obviously)

--half of his music wasn't listened to and some people think he was dried up by the time he turned 32 or so.

--he didn't seem to be able to have kids

--according to some people, he didn't even seem to have any real friends (all just synchophantic and frightened employees and females proteges using him for his connections/status)

--apparently, his parents abandoned him.

--he had a nasty and according to some long term drug addiction

--his subtle cruelty (probably a result of insecurity and abandonment issues) drove away potential friends.

--some people claimed to like him but I am not so sure they really did (if Tommy is to be believed).

--according to some folks (tommy) no one was close to Prince (kind of the same as above).

--he was in a religious cult that sapped him of his freedom of expression

--he worked non-stop

--music was a curse rather than a blessing

--he was an untreated autistic savant

--he suffered horrible hip and ankle pain

--the media and record industries hated him

--the fans loved his music but not so much him.

--he was horribly lonely when not devoid of all feeling entirely

--his epilepsy was returning

--Warner's brothers wanted him dead

--his pills were (without his knowing it) replaced with fentanyl

"I just can't believe..... all the things people say."

The circumstances of his death do not mean that his life was sad.

Half of his music wasn't listened to...... by who? 3121 sold a million records. Musicology sold 2.5 million. The man made 25 albums that were certified either Gold, Platinum or Diamond. And some of the ones that didn't sell a lot were niche records, that if anyone else had made, would have sold basically nothing. Who else could sell 300,000 copies of an album like The Rainbow Children? And besides all of that - Prince's motivation for releasing albums was rarely about shifting units. Look at his decision to release ATWIAD less than a year after Purple Rain with no single, until WB forced him to do Raspberry Beret as a single. Another year of promoting Purple Rain could have pushed another 5-10 million sales, at least! But he wasn't about that.

Yes, the children thing is sad. As for friends, Kirky J was around him for over 30 years. I also suggest you read Apollonia and Jill's reports about the time they spent with him at the beginning of the year.

His parents? Well, he maintained love and respect for them and he probably felt they did the best they could. Addiction is sad no matter who suffers from it.

The idea that nobody was close to him is certifiable nonsense. His faith may have brought him personal comfort - that's not our place to judge. Making music for Prince was not "working" - it was what he loved to do. Untreated savant? Maybe - nobody knows. Pain? Yes. Sad. Lots of people have chronic pain and still live overall happy lives.

The media and record industries did not hate him. He had the blessing of working with literally every label out there? WB, Sony, EMI, Universal, all of them!

The fans loved him, we always did. That is a stone-cold lie to suggest that we didn't. Obviously I can't speak for everyone but there are SO many, countless examples of how much we loved and still love him and he KNEW we did.

Lonely? No possible way you can know that.

Epilepsy returning? Total conjecture on your part.

WB wanted him dead? Nonsense.

Pills replaced without him knowing? I don't buy it. Who had access to them but him? On the plane and at Paisley? I see no evidence for a conspiracy.

There are WAY more reasons to celebrate Prince and his legacy than to feel sad. Way, way more. He changed all of our lives. He was loved and he knew he was loved.

He just always insisted on doing things his way. Sometimes that worked out for the better and sometimes for the worse. That was Prince, and we loved him for it.

I know that you only registered here 2 months ago. For those of us that have been here for over a decade, your position is a little hard to understand. It was different when he was here, and it wasn't the picture that you're painting.

purplerabbithole said:

Was he at least polite and relatively normal when you met him?

He was polite, charming, excited, happy and in his absolute element. His grin lit up the whole room!

Relatively normal compared to what? Relative to who? He was a unique individual, so I really don't know what you're trying to ask there. I don't even know what relatively normal means.

You know I think Tommy Barbarello's comments in his St.Paul interview (written version) is what triggered this sadness. (and the Leeds seem to agree with him.)

He said that no one who claimed they were close to Prince was telling the truth. That is awfully sad to imagine. Living your entire life without one close friend. Not one. Money, fame, and sex don't mean shit if you don't have connections to your fellow man or woman--even if they are fleeting or temporary or even somewhat limited, those connections must be there. It made me question every nice comment I read about Prince from his associates.

Militant said:

purplerabbithole said:

Why was his life sad? God, I hope half this stuff is not true but if we believed everything said or speculated about him....

--he died at 57 years old alone in an elevator (that's confirmable obviously)

--half of his music wasn't listened to and some people think he was dried up by the time he turned 32 or so.

--he didn't seem to be able to have kids

--according to some people, he didn't even seem to have any real friends (all just synchophantic and frightened employees and females proteges using him for his connections/status)

--apparently, his parents abandoned him.

--he had a nasty and according to some long term drug addiction

--his subtle cruelty (probably a result of insecurity and abandonment issues) drove away potential friends.

--some people claimed to like him but I am not so sure they really did (if Tommy is to be believed).

--according to some folks (tommy) no one was close to Prince (kind of the same as above).

--he was in a religious cult that sapped him of his freedom of expression

--he worked non-stop

--music was a curse rather than a blessing

--he was an untreated autistic savant

--he suffered horrible hip and ankle pain

--the media and record industries hated him

--the fans loved his music but not so much him.

--he was horribly lonely when not devoid of all feeling entirely

--his epilepsy was returning

--Warner's brothers wanted him dead

--his pills were (without his knowing it) replaced with fentanyl

"I just can't believe..... all the things people say."

The circumstances of his death do not mean that his life was sad.

Half of his music wasn't listened to...... by who? 3121 sold a million records. Musicology sold 2.5 million. The man made 25 albums that were certified either Gold, Platinum or Diamond. And some of the ones that didn't sell a lot were niche records, that if anyone else had made, would have sold basically nothing. Who else could sell 300,000 copies of an album like The Rainbow Children? And besides all of that - Prince's motivation for releasing albums was rarely about shifting units. Look at his decision to release ATWIAD less than a year after Purple Rain with no single, until WB forced him to do Raspberry Beret as a single. Another year of promoting Purple Rain could have pushed another 5-10 million sales, at least! But he wasn't about that.

Yes, the children thing is sad. As for friends, Kirky J was around him for over 30 years. I also suggest you read Apollonia and Jill's reports about the time they spent with him at the beginning of the year.

His parents? Well, he maintained love and respect for them and he probably felt they did the best they could. Addiction is sad no matter who suffers from it.

The idea that nobody was close to him is certifiable nonsense. His faith may have brought him personal comfort - that's not our place to judge. Making music for Prince was not "working" - it was what he loved to do. Untreated savant? Maybe - nobody knows. Pain? Yes. Sad. Lots of people have chronic pain and still live overall happy lives.

The media and record industries did not hate him. He had the blessing of working with literally every label out there? WB, Sony, EMI, Universal, all of them!

The fans loved him, we always did. That is a stone-cold lie to suggest that we didn't. Obviously I can't speak for everyone but there are SO many, countless examples of how much we loved and still love him and he KNEW we did.

Lonely? No possible way you can know that.

Epilepsy returning? Total conjecture on your part.

WB wanted him dead? Nonsense.

Pills replaced without him knowing? I don't buy it. Who had access to them but him? On the plane and at Paisley? I see no evidence for a conspiracy.

There are WAY more reasons to celebrate Prince and his legacy than to feel sad. Way, way more. He changed all of our lives. He was loved and he knew he was loved.

He just always insisted on doing things his way. Sometimes that worked out for the better and sometimes for the worse. That was Prince, and we loved him for it.

I know that you only registered here 2 months ago. For those of us that have been here for over a decade, your position is a little hard to understand. It was different when he was here, and it wasn't the picture that you're painting.

purplerabbithole said:

You know I think Tommy Barbarello's comments in his St.Paul interview (written version) is what triggered this sadness. (and the Leeds seem to agree with him.)

He said that no one who claimed they were close to Prince was telling the truth. That is awfully sad to imagine. Living your entire life without one close friend. Not one. Money, fame, and sex don't mean shit if you don't have connections to your fellow man or woman--even if they are fleeting or temporary or even somewhat limited, those connections must be there. It made me question every nice comment I read about Prince from his associates.

It's worth remembering that Tommy spent no time with Prince in the last 20 years, neither did Alan Leeds. I don't think it's fair to take their opinions as gospel. Prince mellowed out a LOT. Especially in the last decade.

purplerabbithole said:

I get it. You don't like Prince as a human being.

Its what he left out that implies a great deal. He takes the time to point out P's flaws but never mentions any good traits. He takes the time to point out his 'artistic decline' but never points out any later day gems. HOw else would a newbie think about Prince after reading that article?

\

airth said:

There's nothing in the article that upset me. I would agree that Paisley Park opened too soon and lacks real insight into the man; that Prince was narcissistic and controlling; that the purple tunics make the wearers look like cult members; that the tacked-on shop and restaurant are not really up to par; that he probably didn't get much criticism from those around him; and that the world was largely indifferent to the latter part of his career.

Prince peaked in the eighties as a recording artist. But that doesn't make his subsequent work worthless in any way. While the article mentions a decline, I didn't feel the author was implying everything post eighties was a waste.

I see. You must be the rabbit living in that purple hole because you just took a remarkable leap in logic. You think his life was sad. I think it was joyous. Why have regrets? Yes, he faced some things none of us would choose to face, but he also lived the life he wanted to live.

In response to your rabbit hole insult, I forgot I was the only person on his page passionate about Prince.

Agreeing with someone who not only calls this man narcissistic and controlling but also fails to bring up anything good about him---it isn't a leap to believe you are not fond of the man being described. It's called inferring, not leaping.

Personally, I don't like people whose predominant and seemingly only noticable traits are narcissism and control. And I know I am probably not alone in thinking that. Most people would like someone in spite of those (hopefully infrequent) traits and because they had redeemable traits as well. .

.

airth said:

purplerabbithole said:

I get it. You don't like Prince as a human being.

Its what he left out that implies a great deal. He takes the time to point out P's flaws but never mentions any good traits. He takes the time to point out his 'artistic decline' but never points out any later day gems. HOw else would a newbie think about Prince after reading that article?

\

I see. You must be the rabbit living in that purple hole because you just took a remarkable leap in logic. You think his life was sad. I think it was joyous. Why have regrets? Yes, he faced some things none of us would choose to face, but he also lived the life he wanted to live.

[Edited 12/6/16 19:53pm]

[Edited 12/6/16 19:54pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Horrible right.

I am not saying that Paisley isn't a bit cheesy, but it is a recording studio and museum. NOt his home. Its for his fans now. That guy is a like a disgruntled ex-fan. If Prince was interested in just being nostalgic, he would have released Purple Rain like albums for the rest of his life.

BillieBalloon said:

If you look up the word patronising in a dictionary it has this guys mug shot next to it, I'm sure.

Exactly.

I think I'll give him a piece of my mind. We should give him the Lil Mo treatment.

Militant said:

It's one guy's article in one city.

Hearing just ONE Prince song on the radio, to a new person unfamiliar with his work, is worth 100,000 newspaper articles.

And Prince knew that. And just hearing that one song will set people off down the rabbit hole that ends up where we've all been for years - the understanding that he was without peer. That he musically towered above everybody.

Prince doesn't need awards, or praise from random-ass journalists. Even Paisley Park the museum is simply an addendum to his life's work and legacy.

The music will always speak, and I hear and see his influence all over the place.

You don't need to feel bummed out. Prince's career was always about peaks and valleys. He was a divisive person. One year you'd get Purple Rain and another year you'd get 3 Chains O' Gold. One year you'd get N.E.W.S pushing out a few thousand copies and the next year you might get Musicology and the highest grossing tour of the year.

So it's kind of apt that in death things are the same. Right now, you feel sad about his legacy, but who knows - in a few months time when Purple Rain Deluxe comes out, perhaps WB will put a ton of money behind it and you'll be seeing it everywhere, and many many new people will be discovering Prince for the first time.

Prince's legacy is a complex thing. But right now you're just cherry picking a few things. Ultimately who the fuck cares about the 2017 Grammy Awards? Who the fuck cares about some random journo in Chicago? These things don't matter.

The Celebration is sold out. Lots of people are going to Paisley and enjoying it. Purple Rain deluxe is coming.

If you feel like his life was sad, that sounds like projection. The man is one of the most iconic and celebrated artists of all time. He was worth millions of dollars for basically his entire life, had the freedom to do what he wanted, slept with probably hundreds of beautiful women, worked with dozens of amazing musicians, saw and performed in a huge chunk of the world, fought and won some huge battles with the system, donated tens of millions to charities and saw the impact that that had..............I mean, what else can you really ask for in life? It's sad that he didn't get to have a family, it's sad that neither of his marriages lasted and it's sad that he succumbed to the disease of addiction that has claimed so many lives.

But let's not paint his life as a tragic figure. The man was worshipped by millions, and on his less humble days - he fucking RELISHED that. Trust me. I met him. And the man was happy.

If you want to talk about tragic figures, people that were mistreated by everyone, people that desperately needed help and didn't get it, people whose legacy is still getting attacked and torn up after death, take a look at the man who people see as Prince's biggest rival.

As for that lame word, "relevance". Well - they justified that lame-ass Madonna tribute by saying she was relevant, and that folks like Sheila E weren't. Compare Madonna's tribute to Sheila's, and we can talk about how relevance means jack.

Militant said:

purplerabbithole said:

You know I think Tommy Barbarello's comments in his St.Paul interview (written version) is what triggered this sadness. (and the Leeds seem to agree with him.)

He said that no one who claimed they were close to Prince was telling the truth. That is awfully sad to imagine. Living your entire life without one close friend. Not one. Money, fame, and sex don't mean shit if you don't have connections to your fellow man or woman--even if they are fleeting or temporary or even somewhat limited, those connections must be there. It made me question every nice comment I read about Prince from his associates.

It's worth remembering that Tommy spent no time with Prince in the last 20 years, neither did Alan Leeds. I don't think it's fair to take their opinions as gospel. Prince mellowed out a LOT. Especially in the last decade.

Thank you!

Those guys sound like salty old church ladies.