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Was Prince so obsessed with music that is became a crutch? Oh the double-edged sword of being a prolific musical genius!!
I ask the question in the subject heading because even though music is a glorious spiritual mode of expression that garnered P some wonderful things in his life (and I don't doubt that there was a bit more in his life than just music). I do think it became an avenue for almost everything in his life.. to his detriment.
It was an avenue for self-expression, self-worth, romantic-expression, spiritual expression. But, music is simply not enough--thus why his relationships were fleeting and conditional (based on each lady's ability to adapt musically and to his life style--thus the reason young aspiring women fit the mold. Older women have too much of their own baggage [life outside the music] to attend to.)
I don't doubt that P had geniune feelings for people and visa versa but because these feelings were intertwined with his obsession with music/fantasy, they were bound to be fleeting and conditional. I bet, in his own way, he remembered, loved and respected every woman in his life like every important song in his life, but sometimes i think he kept his feelings for them in a vault and compartmentalized (in an attempt to protect himself) like many men do.
He wrapped himself in a bubble of music which for the most part was good for the music. But even occasionally it wasn't good for the lyrical content of his music. A life outsife the bubble a little more often could have resulted in more profound content in his songs. As he got older, he seemed to invite the world in more often, cared about the world, read about the world and even gave charitable contributions to the world, but he didn't get out in it enough (as far as I can tell). That's kind of tragic to me.
IMO, I think P's calculations and attempts at control are indicative more of frality than of strength, of fragile self-protection. I am not saying he didn't have strength (his strength was in his work effort and freedom of fearless creative expression), but a truely strong man in life doesn't need to go out in full uniform and makeup everyday and can handle the unexpected and unpredictable characteristics of everyday life. A strong person is free in the world not just in his art.
So where is the balance needed to be a great artist and a healthy human being? Damn, if i know?
[Edited 11/26/16 20:59pm] [Edited 11/26/16 21:04pm] [Edited 11/26/16 21:06pm] | |
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Very interesting. Makes sense. Poor P. Being a genius has its drawbacks. It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN | |
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I think along the same lines...I wonder if P recognised it too, or if he was too caught up in it all to be circumspect? | |
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Dibblekins, your statement that he was the loneliest man in the room is spot on. I have thought that for a very long time. I do believe it goes back to his childhood, and the armor he built around himself to never be hurt that way again, even if he ended up hurting other people in the process. Everyone around him was on the payroll, in one form or another - family living in one of his houses, girlfriend/protegee making a record, etc. And look how he ended up. Alone, by choice apparently, for that last night. | |
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Talent and genius don't exist. It's all hard work. Now that we've got that out of the way, the answer it yes. He had very little going on upstairs outside of music and music-related matters. That's why his jumbled spiritual and politic announcements were always so comical. | |
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I agree totally. His obsession with control screamed fragility and I don't think he was able to roll with the punches, the organic ups and downs, of a truly intimate relationship. The songs were/are intimate (which is why, IMO, so many experience a visceral connection with his creativity) but in his private life I wonder how much deep sharing, deep trust, deep connection actually existed; you know, the real stuff. | |
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I think he had so much to protect (people relying on him to feed their families, his music and never-ending chess game with WB, never mind his body from overly-aggressive fans) that he had to be as safe and protected as possible. He must've had to accept that this was his life. But I know what you mean. There's an old video of him on stage doing a brushing teeth motion that's comical and I always think when he see him doing it, "Prince does that too? Like us?" I think he was incredibly strong while also vulnerable and teachable. A lot of very nasty and damaging things were said about him by certain people over the years but he didn't age one bit over it. Never fed into it. If he didn't have a very powerful solution for faith, courage and strength, it would've shown on his face. The makeup was something he liked, I think. He certainly did seem to pull inspiration from those around him and young people are great for that since life hasn't piled up on them yet. I think he meant it when he said on Arsenio that he likes to learn as much as teach. I think he just became used to his life being so private but I also think he had more meaningful relationships than most of us. But maybe that's better. He did say he chose to create his own world then bring into it who should be there. Did this begin in childhood when he says he "went into himself"? Or was it a continuation of that? Probably or maybe, and as you say he opened up with time. | |
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I don't think so at all. . Lately I've been watching loads of live clips from 2012 - 2015 and he was kicking back, going with the flow and really enjoying himself. . Similarly, his recordings from 2014 - 2016 shows he was exploring and reinterpretting his old work and experiementing with his new work. . So that doesn't seem like someone who is crippled by their art. .
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It's not just music, it's the combination of music and fame. Once you're famous, you can't walk down the streets anymore without everybody looking at you. It has to have an effect on you! (Just look at how Michael Jackson turned out...) And Prince had the money to build his own studio, which meant he could withdraw into his own world even more. Mojo magazine did a piece on Prince in 1997 and here's a quote from Alan Light: "I think he's constructed a universe where nothing touches him that he doesn't want to. It's all about enabling him to work. Everything else is designed that if he doesn't choose to come out of that music bubble, he doesnt't have to. When he wants to, he'll reach out and bring you in, but not the other way around. When you're dealing with the raw genius of what his talents are, that's an isolation unto itself anyway." That last sentence says it all. Every artist lives in his or her own head to some extent, some more than others, but every artist works wih his or her own fantasies and dreams and turning that into music or paintings or books etc is almost always a solitary process. I know what it's like, I feel like I'm only really being myself when I'm painting or drawing. I'd love to do that all the time, but maybe if I didn't need a job besides and see some "normal" people, I'd end up living on a bubble too. But on the other hand, is that a bad thing? It allowed Prince to create all the wonderful music that he made. He lived for that and I can think of a whole lot worse ways to live! | |
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NorthC said: It's not just music, it's the combination of music and fame. Once you're famous, you can't walk down the streets anymore without everybody looking at you. It has to have an effect on you! (Just look at how Michael Jackson turned out...) And Prince had the money to build his own studio, which meant he could withdraw into his own world even more. Mojo magazine did a piece on Prince in 1997 and here's a quote from Alan Light: "I think he's constructed a universe where nothing touches him that he doesn't want to. It's all about enabling him to work. Everything else is designed that if he doesn't choose to come out of that music bubble, he doesnt't have to. When he wants to, he'll reach out and bring you in, but not the other way around. When you're dealing with the raw genius of what his talents are, that's an isolation unto itself anyway."
That last sentence says it all. Every artist lives in his or her own head to some extent, some more than others, but every artist works wih his or her own fantasies and dreams and turning that into music or paintings or books etc is almost always a solitary process. I know what it's like, I feel like I'm only really being myself when I'm painting or drawing. I'd love to do that all the time, but maybe if I didn't need a job besides and see some "normal" people, I'd end up living on a bubble too. But on the other hand, is that a bad thing? It allowed Prince to create all the wonderful music that he made. He lived for that and I can think of a whole lot worse ways to live! Yes. It has occurred to me too that he had the money to build his own universe - and for musics' sake he could pretty much do what he wanted and bring in who he wanted. Not at all a bad way to live. Also, I think he had very intimate human relationships with people like Larry Graham. It is also worth noting that I think he ha spiritual practices and when you've got God, you're never alone. Some of the most spiritual people on earth are almost entirely anonymous. But we do need people too, and we need to give. I think he did very, very well. In fact I just finished "saying" that to him about 10 minutes ago. [Edited 11/27/16 8:34am] | |
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. That's wrong. . Prince was well know for shopping in his local town and cycling openly in the streets of MN. . Prince's home life was relaxed, but of course he would have needed security while making public appearences. .
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First of all, we can't know entirely what he has "going upstairs" based on interview snippets. We can only speculate... Secondly, you have obviously never heard of Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences. Musicial ability is considered one of those intelligences. He would probably be described as 'genius' level at that particular intelligence as well as bodily-kinesthic and interpersonal (self reflection). He would probably score a bit lower on linguistic and mathematical (being a songwriter and musician he probably would not score too low here however) . INtrapersonal (socialization) he might have struggled with at times, but his sense of humor might have helped him here.
. https://en.wikipedia.org/...elligences
Prince was not stupid or empty intellectually or emotionally. Overall he was of average intelligence (outside of music) but did have an interesting humorous way with words. He was extremely idiosyncratic and I didn't always agree with him, but in many ways he was attempting to think outside the box and was capable of changing his mind.
[Edited 11/27/16 11:09am] [Edited 11/27/16 11:12am] | |
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Don't get me wrong, I do think he started to open up and invite the world in. I do think he got more comfortable in the public eye and in interviews etc. But he was still a very private man who worked too much and tended to jump in and out of openness with people. I do think he was letting go of some control but I also think it was too late to really help him live a long healthy life.
[Edited 11/27/16 9:39am] | |
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That's not exactly what I meant. I do think he was coming more and more out of his shell and had been for years. But the shell was still there and when he retreated back into it, that is when relationships ended. It was still a very structured life and I imagine even his comings and goings in Minnesota were like that. (in his defense, he was a famous man so they would probably have to be)
Remember, this man died alone with very few people knowing he even had a serious drug problem. It is not even surprising that his pain pills were hidden in vitamin c and aleve bottles. He was a secretative man even around people who probably had to sign confidentiality agreements.
[Edited 11/27/16 9:54am] | |
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To be fair, a lot of people live within their personal comfort zone, Prince's world was just more visible to us due to his fame. Did his miss out on life experiences that may have been beneficial to him? Yes, I think he did. However, like many artists, he was an introspective person, he viewed the world through his subjective experience of it and created his songs this way. I still think he had the ability to empathise and place himself mentally, if not physically, in situations that were not a part of his norm. He was a sensitive person and at times his art probably did seem like a prison but at other times it gave him the freedom to express himself in ways many of us will never have the opportunity to do. Baby, you're a star.
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That's why a guy with his tongue hanging out of his mouth can become a master craftsman a la Da Vinci. No wait, that's not right actually The world's problems like climate change can only be solved through strategic long-term thinking, not expediency. In other words all the govts. need sacking!
If you can add value to someone's life then why not. Especially if it colors their days... | |
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This all got me to wondering something: Did Prince ever go on vacation? Did he ever take a vacation away from home, work, etc? I don't recall ever hearing about him vacationing on a beach somewhere in winter months or any such thing. The man did work too much. [Edited 11/27/16 13:04pm] It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN | |
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purplerabbithole said: First of all, we can't know entirely what he has "going upstairs" based on interview snippets. We can only speculate... Secondly, you have obviously never heard of Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences. Musicial ability is considered one of those intelligences. He would probably be described as 'genius' level at that particular intelligence as well as bodily-kinesthic and interpersonal (self reflection). He would probably score a bit lower on linguistic and mathematical (being a songwriter and musician he probably would not score too low here however) . INtrapersonal (socialization) he might have struggled with at times, but his sense of humor might have helped him here.< . https://en.wikipedia.org/...elligences Prince was not stupid or empty intellectually or emotionally. Overall he was of average intelligence (outside of music) but did have an interesting humorous way with words. He was extremely idiosyncratic and I didn't always agree with him, but in many ways he was attempting to think outside the box and was capable of changing his mind.< steakfinger said: Talent and genius don't exist. It's all hard work. Now that we've got that out of the way, the answer it yes. He had very little going on upstairs outside of music and music-related matters. That's why his jumbled spiritual and politic announcements were always so comical. <opinion> In your original post, purplerabbithole, you assert all of your points about Prince as if you grew up in the same house as Prince. So, it seems like an unfair double standard to me, that when somebody presents an alternative opinion, you conveniently forget that all the assertions that you made, sounded as if you were speaking as Prince himself. To me they did, anyway. And please don't make the mistake that others always make, that just because I don't litter my posts with a gazillion goofy emoticons, that I'm "angered" by your post. Because I'm not. I'm actually in a very pleasant mood as I type this. So no need to get your back up, over my comments. I just see it as my civic duty to point out double-standards wherever I see them. But also, because I agree with steakfinger's "savant" observation, 100% @steakfinger — When I used to see Prince in interviews, his mannerisms reminded me of several other people that I know personally, who gave off very similar vibes. And I knew for sure why those people that I knew, behaved the way that they did in public. That's why I always wondered to myself whether Prince's "shyness" — and his aversion to recorded interviews — possibly came from he himself knowing that the things he says, are likely to sound "comical" — or even hair-brained — to people that are watching/listening to/reading what he's saying. </opinion>
“Sometimes People Don't Want To Hear The Truth Because They Don't Want Their Illusions Destroyed” — Friedrich Nietzsche | |
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I like your observation, and can definitely see your point. Prince did seem to be all about music, it seemed to be his world, but that can be appllied to a lot of his peers also. I can't imagine living life that way, it would be too much for me, making my life about one thing like that, it seems overwhelming. | |
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I said "probably" quite a few times in my original post and in no way did I imply that I wasn't speculating. However, speculation usually takes into account that a person is multi-faceted and has a least a bit of depth. Very few people are not immensely complicated... the post about P not having "much upstairs' smelled of intellectual snobbery and maybe in my response to that post, I came off as if I was privy to knowledge about P that I didn't have...but my only point is that nothing in what Prince said publically would indicate an empty superficial or brainless man-- a confused and convoluted train of thought at times, but certainly not lacking in basic intelligence and thoughtfulness. Going strictly by public record, P would be no lower than average intelligence on things outside of music (and maybe even higher if he was given time to elaborate) and high on music related knowledge. "Genius" is not necessarily genius in all things. But, for P to be able to write lyrics for a living, he would have to have some linguistic ability.
BTW, I am a teacher for a living so I see intelligence in a slightly different way and have met people (and are related to people) who make P's most convoluted and illogical statements sound like the words of Socrates, comparatively-speaking.
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anangellooksdown said: I think he had so much to protect (people relying on him to feed their families, his music and never-ending chess game with WB, never mind his body from overly-aggressive fans) that he had to be as safe and protected as possible. He must've had to accept that this was his life. But I know what you mean. There's an old video of him on stage doing a brushing teeth motion that's comical and I always think when he see him doing it, "Prince does that too? Like us?" I think he was incredibly strong while also vulnerable and teachable. A lot of very nasty and damaging things were said about him by certain people over the years but he didn't age one bit over it. Never fed into it. If he didn't have a very powerful solution for faith, courage and strength, it would've shown on his face. The makeup was something he liked, I think. He certainly did seem to pull inspiration from those around him and young people are great for that since life hasn't piled up on them yet. I think he meant it when he said on Arsenio that he likes to learn as much as teach. I think he just became used to his life being so private but I also think he had more meaningful relationships than most of us. But maybe that's better. He did say he chose to create his own world then bring into it who should be there. Did this begin in childhood when he says he "went into himself"? Or was it a continuation of that? Probably or maybe, and as you say he opened up with time. I don't recall too many negative damaging things being said about Prince over the years. | |
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http://www.dailygrail.com...cal-Savant
a must read......though
Purplerabbithole said:Oh the double-edged sword of being a prolific musical genius!! I ask the question in the subject heading because even though music is a glorious spiritual mode of expression that garnered P some wonderful things in his life (and I don't doubt that there was a bit more in his life than just music). I do think it became an avenue for almost everything in his life.. to his detriment. It was an avenue for self-expression, self-worth, romantic-expression, spiritual expression. But, music is simply not enough--thus why his relationships were fleeting and conditional (based on each lady's ability to adapt musically and to his life style--thus the reason young aspiring women fit the mold. Older women have too much of their own baggage [life outside the music] to attend to.) I don't doubt that P had geniune feelings for people and visa versa but because these feelings were intertwined with his obsession with music/fantasy, they were bound to be fleeting and conditional. I bet, in his own way, he remembered, loved and respected every woman in his life like every important song in his life, but sometimes i think he kept his feelings for them in a vault and compartmentalized (in an attempt to protect himself) like many men do. He wrapped himself in a bubble of music which for the most part was good for the music. But even occasionally it wasn't good for the lyrical content of his music. A life outsife the bubble a little more often could have resulted in more profound content in his songs. As he got older, he seemed to invite the world in more often, cared about the world, read about the world and even gave charitable contributions to the world, but he didn't get out in it enough (as far as I can tell). That's kind of tragic to me. IMO, I think P's calculations and attempts at control are indicative more of frality than of strength, of fragile self-protection. I am not saying he didn't have strength (his strength was in his work effort and freedom of fearless creative expression), but a truely strong man in life doesn't need to go out in full uniform and makeup everyday and can handle the unexpected and unpredictable characteristics of everyday life. A strong person is free in the world not just in his art. So where is the balance needed to be a great artist and a healthy human being? Damn, if i know? [Edited 11/26/16 20:59pm] [Edited 11/26/16 21:04pm][Edited 11/26/16 21:06pm] [Edited 11/27/16 17:18pm] [Edited 11/27/16 17:19pm] [Edited 11/27/16 17:20pm] [Edited 11/27/16 17:21pm] [Edited 11/27/16 17:21pm] [Edited 11/27/16 17:33pm] | |
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Edit [Edited 11/27/16 17:34pm] | |
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way too much Alan Leeds and Toure in that article. The analysis of Prince is coming from people who worked with him years ago and mostly on the road. And both Leeds men seem as cold as they claim Prince was. And perhaps his aloofness with Alan Leeds was because he sensed that this man was the type of man to talk to the press about him constantly.
And if prince had some form of autism, it did seem to lessen over time into something a bit warmer (as the article rightfully indicated in stating that the brain is not a fixed thing). Without later commentors involved in the discussion, this assertion that Prince had a form of autism is underdeveloped concept. Plus there is very little about the women he was involved with (and as we all know P was more comfortable around women than men.)
. Choosing to envelope yourself in music to avoid those who may take advantage of you or use you is not the same thing as being emotionless and aloof. Prince must have been a good faker because just watching interviews and award ceremonies he was able to reveal more emotion than they are claiming. Chris Moon at least humanized him in his full interview..https://www.youtube.com/w...9Kn-1jN3Q
[Edited 11/27/16 19:24pm] [Edited 11/27/16 19:52pm] | |
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You insufferable know-nothing fools. | |
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Its all speculation but if you know something the rest of us don't know, then do tell.
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I was expecting it would be mentioned about Toure', nevertheless, the article was directly related to your question, and quite in depth, I might add. In several places the article states that it is not "diagnosing" Prince, but rather the article is a hypothesis in and of itself without categorizing or placing Prince "on the spectrum". There is no doubt he had epilepsy, and another question I am curious about is if, when P started mastering different instruments and allowed the music to flow through him, if that had anything at all with his epileptic episodes subsiding(?) purplerabbithole said: way too much Alan Leeds and Toure in that article. The analysis of Prince is coming from people who worked with him years ago and mostly on the road. And both Leeds men seem as cold as they claim Prince was. And if prince had some form of autism, it did seem to lessen over time into something a bit warmer (as the article rightfully indicated in stating that the brain is not a fixed thing). Without later commentors involved in the discussion, this assertion that Prince had a form of autism is underdeveloped concept. Plus there is very little about the women he was involved with (and as we all know P was more comfortable around women than men.)
. Choosing to envelope yourself in music to avoid those who may take advantage of you or use you is not the same thing as being emotionless and aloof. Prince must have been a good faker because just watching interviews and award ceremonies he was able to reveal more emotion than they are claiming. Chris Moon at least humanized him in his full interview..https://www.youtube.com/w...9Kn-1jN3Q
[Edited 11/27/16 19:24pm] | |
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Prince did have epilepsy, did behave with aloofness at times, did have nearly savant like abilities. But the spectrum for autism is a large one (trust me, I have worked with autistic kids and the symptoms of this disorder are so wide-ranging in degree and behavior that I am starting to think it is over-diagnosed.) Prince's aloofness however is very selective. Not all people thought of him as aloof and not so ironically the ones that do are the ones who have spoken about Prince more often than others have (the very people he might have been weary of in the first place.)
As a teacher and a special education aide , I worked with autistic kids who had it so bad they could not speak. Another kid spoke like a robot and would flip out whenever a routine was changed (violent reactions.) The autistic kid I am working with now is very emotional but it is mostly anger, geeky passion for an interest of his or attention-getting and he is completely self-centered most of the time but can occassionally be remarkably sensitive and kind. He is the opposite of shy or introverted--in fact, he barely has an off-switch and I have to constantly remind him to behave in appropriate ways in a school setting. Apparently, he was worse last year before he got medicated. He does seem to like people but always wants to call the shots around his peers. I do like the kid because when he is good, he can be very good. When he is bad however, holy crap.
[Edited 11/27/16 20:16pm] | |
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Ithink Chaka Khan said he was getting more paranoid and yet more relaxed as he aged.Idont remember where i read/heard this
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