I spent this past Saturday at a community creative arts center and was speaking with a woman about possibly taking piano lessons. I mentioned Prince of course, to which she made some comment regarding him using drugs, being a drug user. I instantly became offended and my first thought was to say “he wasn’t a drug user”, but since his death was reported as being connected to drugs, I felt like I would have sounded delusional making that statement; even though in my heart I feel that way. She was trying to be sympathetic in the comment, saying how she understands the demands, etc. I steered the conversation to songs that I liked by Prince and discussed his Piano and a Microphone tour. Yet, I walked away angry because I didn’t defend him and because I really didn’t know how to respond in such a way as to make it clear that it hasn't been established that he was some type of regular rock and roll/musician drug abuser. Needless to say, I’m not sure I want to take lesson from her. Silly I know, because other than that comment she seemed like a nice woman.

What do you think would have been a sane, rational response to her comment? No offense, I hope this doesn’t get moved to the conspiracy theory thread because I am looking for the perspective of folks who may not really still be dwelling on those thoughts and who can provide something clear and concise to say, because I haven’t totally ruled out taking lessons from the woman and if I do, I definately want to express that I think her perception of him is based upon faulty assumptions/information.

Thanks

[Edited 11/20/16 18:33pm]

This one is near and dear to my heart. My dad was on fentanyl for a while and finally decided he didn't want to be on it anymore. It was helping the pain, but he had to keep increasing the dosage (legally, under a doctor's supervision), and quite frankly it was making him very mean and nasty. He hated who he was becoming, even though he loved the freedom from the pain. I won't go into detail, but this is a man who now, about seven years later, is unable to walk upright, since most of his pain is related to his spine. When I was a child, he built our house. Like, built it. With very little help other than an occasional buddy.

After Prince's death, we really started talking about fentanyl for the first time, and he said that it wasn't like being on a drug; he didn't feel any kind of "high". The only thing he knew was that, when he was taking fentanyl, he could do all of the things he used to do without pain. He said it was like being in his 20s or 30s again (when he built the house). In fact, he did quite a bit of work on their house while he was taking fentanyl, because he could actually move again. He was finally able to quit because he decided to start steeply stepping down his dosage (without his doctor's consent) and coincidentally got the flu. He stopped his meds, because he couldn't keep anything down, and ended up with what he called "the worst flu of my life". That's probably because he was going through withdrawl at the same time. He told me that he thinks that God allowed that flu to save his life, because he doesn't know if he would've been able to quit otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if he was right.

So, I personally get very frustrated when Prince's situation is treated as if it were recreational drug use just for the high. I don't condone obtaining medication illegally or abusing meds, but the missing link for most people is that they don't put themselves in another's shoes. What if you had debilitating pain and there were a solution to that -- something that would make you feel like yourself again? Something that made it possible to really live your life because you could move and act and even think like you used to? (It can be really hard to focus when you're in constant pain.) An even better question might be "What would it take for you not to take that pill?" If my dad hadn't had the extreme personality problems, I can't imagine he ever would've stopped the fentanyl, and his doctors were perfectly willing to keep upping the dosage (because otherwise you lose the effect).

This is a good line of discussion for someone who you can have a real conversation with, but in your case with a casual acquaintance it might be better to just offer sympathy. Something like, "My heart breaks when I think of people who have to deal with constant pain. I wish there were some way for them to get the same relief without having to risk addiction. It just seems so unfair." I'm not sure how anyone can argue against sympathy, and it makes the reason for the fentanyl very clear. It might even help them to start being a little more empathetic themselves.

EDIT: Typos

[Edited 11/20/16 20:20pm]

if she's a hardcore classical musician, which is a good likeliehood, then I wouldn't even deal with her. Many, many classical musicians look down their noses at any other kind of music and have nothing good to say about any of the artists.

as far as cause of death, i've been just telling people my real feelings, that none of it makes sense yet. Kind of ticks me off that prince put himself in position where people could even jump to the old cliche of the druggie rockstar. I still think he may have had something else and kept it secret. I am personally not convinced yet that he was a drug addict in the same way that MJ and Elvis were, maybe he was, but I am not convinced. the family/friends of Prince are doing nothing to alleviate any questions or doubts about what happened and all seem to give different accounts of what they think happened. It's not as simple as Mj/Jimi/Gaye/Elvis types of drug problems.

I would have been upset too!! If I ever encounter a similar situation with someone, I will simply say: "His death is still being investigated, and we don't have all the facts.", and just walk away, and give them the Prince side-eye!!

.

You have to understand, some people just believe what the media feeds them in the headlines, so this is what you get.

precioux said:

Ok, for whatever reason, my posts show up as a run on, so please excuse this in advance.In P's defense, you can mention to your prospective teacher, that even though it has been established that P technichally died of a fentanyl overdose, it has not been established that he has been a long time "abuser" of drugs....and the fact remains that P's death is still currently an OPEN CRIMINAL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION. Discussing this and the fact that P was a musical genius who played by ear, played at least 12-24 instruments and had perfected said instruments by the age of 17, never read sheet music, and only had 1 piano lesson may intrigue her to do her own research into P and who knows....we may just have another fan on the org here (maybe wishful thinking). If she does not at least have a warm reception to having an open mind/discussion about it (being you feel complled to have one), I personally would not be comfortable taking lesson from such a closed minded person..Asenath0607 said:I spent this past Saturday at a community creative arts center and was speaking with a woman about possibly taking piano lessons. I mentioned Prince of course, to which she made some comment regarding him using drugs, being a drug user. I instantly became offended and my first thought was to say “he wasn’t a drug user”, but since his death was reported as being connected to drugs, I felt like I would have sounded delusional making that statement; even though in my heart I feel that way. She was trying to be sympathetic in the comment, saying how she understands the demands, etc. I steered the conversation to songs that I liked by Prince and discussed his Piano and a Microphone tour. Yet, I walked away angry because I didn’t defend him and because I really didn’t know how to respond in such a way as to make it clear that it hasn't been established that he was some type of regular rock and roll/musician drug abuser. Needless to say, I’m not sure I want to take lesson from her. Silly I know, because other than that comment she seemed like a nice woman. What do you think would have been a sane, rational response to her comment? No offense, I hope this doesn’t get moved to the conspiracy theory thread because I am looking for the perspective of folks who may not really still be dwelling on those thoughts and who can provide something clear and concise to say, because I haven’t totally ruled out taking lessons from the woman and if I do, I definately want to express that I think her perception of him is based upon faulty assumptions/information. Thanks

[Edited 11/20/16 18:33pm]

PeteSilas said:

if she's a hardcore classical musician, which is a good likeliehood, then I wouldn't even deal with her. Many, many classical musicians look down their noses at any other kind of music and have nothing good to say about any of the artists.

as far as cause of death, i've been just telling people my real feelings, that none of it makes sense yet. Kind of ticks me off that prince put himself in position where people could even jump to the old cliche of the druggie rockstar. I still think he may have had something else and kept it secret. I am personally not convinced yet that he was a drug addict in the same way that MJ and Elvis were, maybe he was, but I am not convinced. the family/friends of Prince are doing nothing to alleviate any questions or doubts about what happened and all seem to give different accounts of what they think happened. It's not as simple as Mj/Jimi/Gaye/Elvis types of drug problems.

.

PeteSilas said: "Many, many classical musicians look down their noses at any other kind of music and have nothing good to say about any of the artists."

.

I agree!! That woman was probably just a snob, and thinks rock stars are of lower moral class and have less talent than she does! Screw her!

.

Prince would probably put her talent to shame anyways!

I would give the teacher another chance. Learning and playing music with others can be a great relationship. You will have to choose to start that with her. If things don't click, you can decide then to move on. Just don't let it get in the way of playing. The piano is a gateway to many instruments.

FYI - The first time I met my sister in law she stated "Everyone knows Prince can't sing" Knowing I was a huge Prince fan 18 years later I like her even less

Asenath0607 said:

I spent this past Saturday at a community creative arts center and was speaking with a woman about possibly taking piano lessons. I mentioned Prince of course, to which she made some comment regarding him using drugs, being a drug user. I instantly became offended and my first thought was to say “he wasn’t a drug user”, but since his death was reported as being connected to drugs, I felt like I would have sounded delusional making that statement; even though in my heart I feel that way. She was trying to be sympathetic in the comment, saying how she understands the demands, etc. I steered the conversation to songs that I liked by Prince and discussed his Piano and a Microphone tour. Yet, I walked away angry because I didn’t defend him and because I really didn’t know how to respond in such a way as to make it clear that it hasn't been established that he was some type of regular rock and roll/musician drug abuser. Needless to say, I’m not sure I want to take lesson from her. Silly I know, because other than that comment she seemed like a nice woman.

What do you think would have been a sane, rational response to her comment? No offense, I hope this doesn’t get moved to the conspiracy theory thread because I am looking for the perspective of folks who may not really still be dwelling on those thoughts and who can provide something clear and concise to say, because I haven’t totally ruled out taking lessons from the woman and if I do, I definately want to express that I think her perception of him is based upon faulty assumptions/information.

Thanks

.

A response: "Unfortunately, many people become addicted to pain medication due to chronic pain. Prince had been suffering from pain for years. He was using a cain but never spoke openly about his pain."

.

I don't think she was being rude, just ignorant. A response like that is not defensive but informative.

.

Unfortunately for that woman, ignorance can not be fixed.

precioux said:

Ok, for whatever reason, my posts show up as a run on, so please excuse this in advance.In P's defense, you can mention to your prospective teacher, that even though it has been established that P technichally died of a fentanyl overdose, it has not been established that he has been a long time "abuser" of drugs....and the fact remains that P's death is still currently an OPEN CRIMINAL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION. Discussing this and the fact that P was a musical genius who played by ear, played at least 12-24 instruments and had perfected said instruments by the age of 17, never read sheet music, and only had 1 piano lesson may intrigue her to do her own research into P and who knows....we may just have another fan on the org here (maybe wishful thinking). If she does not at least have a warm reception to having an open mind/discussion about it (being you feel complled to have one), I personally would not be comfortable taking lesson from such a closed minded person..Asenath0607 said:I spent this past Saturday at a community creative arts center and was speaking with a woman about possibly taking piano lessons. I mentioned Prince of course, to which she made some comment regarding him using drugs, being a drug user. I instantly became offended and my first thought was to say “he wasn’t a drug user”, but since his death was reported as being connected to drugs, I felt like I would have sounded delusional making that statement; even though in my heart I feel that way. She was trying to be sympathetic in the comment, saying how she understands the demands, etc. I steered the conversation to songs that I liked by Prince and discussed his Piano and a Microphone tour. Yet, I walked away angry because I didn’t defend him and because I really didn’t know how to respond in such a way as to make it clear that it hasn't been established that he was some type of regular rock and roll/musician drug abuser. Needless to say, I’m not sure I want to take lesson from her. Silly I know, because other than that comment she seemed like a nice woman. What do you think would have been a sane, rational response to her comment? No offense, I hope this doesn’t get moved to the conspiracy theory thread because I am looking for the perspective of folks who may not really still be dwelling on those thoughts and who can provide something clear and concise to say, because I haven’t totally ruled out taking lessons from the woman and if I do, I definately want to express that I think her perception of him is based upon faulty assumptions/information. Thanks

To get paragraph breaks, hold down the Shift key when you hit Enter.

Hit Shift/Enter twice, and you should get a new paragraph.

RodeoSchro said:

precioux said:

Ok, for whatever reason, my posts show up as a run on, so please excuse this in advance.In P's defense, you can mention to your prospective teacher, that even though it has been established that P technichally died of a fentanyl overdose, it has not been established that he has been a long time "abuser" of drugs....and the fact remains that P's death is still currently an OPEN CRIMINAL HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION. Discussing this and the fact that P was a musical genius who played by ear, played at least 12-24 instruments and had perfected said instruments by the age of 17, never read sheet music, and only had 1 piano lesson may intrigue her to do her own research into P and who knows....we may just have another fan on the org here (maybe wishful thinking). If she does not at least have a warm reception to having an open mind/discussion about it (being you feel complled to have one), I personally would not be comfortable taking lesson from such a closed minded person..Asenath0607 said:I spent this past Saturday at a community creative arts center and was speaking with a woman about possibly taking piano lessons. I mentioned Prince of course, to which she made some comment regarding him using drugs, being a drug user. I instantly became offended and my first thought was to say “he wasn’t a drug user”, but since his death was reported as being connected to drugs, I felt like I would have sounded delusional making that statement; even though in my heart I feel that way. She was trying to be sympathetic in the comment, saying how she understands the demands, etc. I steered the conversation to songs that I liked by Prince and discussed his Piano and a Microphone tour. Yet, I walked away angry because I didn’t defend him and because I really didn’t know how to respond in such a way as to make it clear that it hasn't been established that he was some type of regular rock and roll/musician drug abuser. Needless to say, I’m not sure I want to take lesson from her. Silly I know, because other than that comment she seemed like a nice woman. What do you think would have been a sane, rational response to her comment? No offense, I hope this doesn’t get moved to the conspiracy theory thread because I am looking for the perspective of folks who may not really still be dwelling on those thoughts and who can provide something clear and concise to say, because I haven’t totally ruled out taking lessons from the woman and if I do, I definately want to express that I think her perception of him is based upon faulty assumptions/information. Thanks

To get paragraph breaks, hold down the Shift key when you hit Enter.

Hit Shift/Enter twice, and you should get a new paragraph.

Thanks Rodeo! I've tried everything (this only happens on my laptop at home)
but it works just fine from work

[Edited 11/21/16 14:02pm]

find a better teacher

Thank you all!

pah said:

This one is near and dear to my heart. My dad was on fentanyl for a while and finally decided he didn't want to be on it anymore. It was helping the pain, but he had to keep increasing the dosage (legally, under a doctor's supervision), and quite frankly it was making him very mean and nasty. He hated who he was becoming, even though he loved the freedom from the pain. I won't go into detail, but this is a man who now, about seven years later, is unable to walk upright, since most of his pain is related to his spine. When I was a child, he built our house. Like, built it. With very little help other than an occasional buddy.

After Prince's death, we really started talking about fentanyl for the first time, and he said that it wasn't like being on a drug; he didn't feel any kind of "high". The only thing he knew was that, when he was taking fentanyl, he could do all of the things he used to do without pain. He said it was like being in his 20s or 30s again (when he built the house). In fact, he did quite a bit of work on their house while he was taking fentanyl, because he could actually move again. He was finally able to quit because he decided to start steeply stepping down his dosage (without his doctor's consent) and coincidentally got the flu. He stopped his meds, because he couldn't keep anything down, and ended up with what he called "the worst flu of my life". That's probably because he was going through withdrawl at the same time. He told me that he thinks that God allowed that flu to save his life, because he doesn't know if he would've been able to quit otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if he was right.

So, I personally get very frustrated when Prince's situation is treated as if it were recreational drug use just for the high. I don't condone obtaining medication illegally or abusing meds, but the missing link for most people is that they don't put themselves in another's shoes. What if you had debilitating pain and there were a solution to that -- something that would make you feel like yourself again? Something that made it possible to really live your life because you could move and act and even think like you used to? (It can be really hard to focus when you're in constant pain.) An even better question might be "What would it take for you not to take that pill?" If my dad hadn't had the extreme personality problems, I can't imagine he ever would've stopped the fentanyl, and his doctors were perfectly willing to keep upping the dosage (because otherwise you lose the effect).

This is a good line of discussion for someone who you can have a real conversation with, but in your case with a casual acquaintance it might be better to just offer sympathy. Something like, "My heart breaks when I think of people who have to deal with constant pain. I wish there were some way for them to get the same relief without having to risk addiction. It just seems so unfair." I'm not sure how anyone can argue against sympathy, and it makes the reason for the fentanyl very clear. It might even help them to start being a little more empathetic themselves.

EDIT: Typos

[Edited 11/20/16 20:20pm]

that's interesting info. from what i've researched, the bad thing about opiates is, 1. you have to keep upping the dose, and worse 2. they take away your bodies natural pain killing ability. That has got to be a hell of a fix to be in. I am still not convinced Prince was just having pain problems, I still think it's possible that cancer or aids may have had him so he may have just thought "well, I'm going to die anyway, what's the point of not risking an od and then going through this pain". The whole situation still doesn't make sense to me and people are being too secretive about stuff, if not downright contradictory. With hindsight, there were some things that told us that he knew his time was short, what I call "death songs" (way back home, breakdown, time) but also some of the things like his last ama appearance, he comes onstage with a guitar even though he's not performing, it's like he's trying to stop people from looking too close at him.

PeteSilas said:

pah said:

This one is near and dear to my heart. My dad was on fentanyl for a while and finally decided he didn't want to be on it anymore. It was helping the pain, but he had to keep increasing the dosage (legally, under a doctor's supervision), and quite frankly it was making him very mean and nasty. He hated who he was becoming, even though he loved the freedom from the pain. I won't go into detail, but this is a man who now, about seven years later, is unable to walk upright, since most of his pain is related to his spine. When I was a child, he built our house. Like, built it. With very little help other than an occasional buddy.

After Prince's death, we really started talking about fentanyl for the first time, and he said that it wasn't like being on a drug; he didn't feel any kind of "high". The only thing he knew was that, when he was taking fentanyl, he could do all of the things he used to do without pain. He said it was like being in his 20s or 30s again (when he built the house). In fact, he did quite a bit of work on their house while he was taking fentanyl, because he could actually move again. He was finally able to quit because he decided to start steeply stepping down his dosage (without his doctor's consent) and coincidentally got the flu. He stopped his meds, because he couldn't keep anything down, and ended up with what he called "the worst flu of my life". That's probably because he was going through withdrawl at the same time. He told me that he thinks that God allowed that flu to save his life, because he doesn't know if he would've been able to quit otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if he was right.

So, I personally get very frustrated when Prince's situation is treated as if it were recreational drug use just for the high. I don't condone obtaining medication illegally or abusing meds, but the missing link for most people is that they don't put themselves in another's shoes. What if you had debilitating pain and there were a solution to that -- something that would make you feel like yourself again? Something that made it possible to really live your life because you could move and act and even think like you used to? (It can be really hard to focus when you're in constant pain.) An even better question might be "What would it take for you not to take that pill?" If my dad hadn't had the extreme personality problems, I can't imagine he ever would've stopped the fentanyl, and his doctors were perfectly willing to keep upping the dosage (because otherwise you lose the effect).

This is a good line of discussion for someone who you can have a real conversation with, but in your case with a casual acquaintance it might be better to just offer sympathy. Something like, "My heart breaks when I think of people who have to deal with constant pain. I wish there were some way for them to get the same relief without having to risk addiction. It just seems so unfair." I'm not sure how anyone can argue against sympathy, and it makes the reason for the fentanyl very clear. It might even help them to start being a little more empathetic themselves.

EDIT: Typos

[Edited 11/20/16 20:20pm]

that's interesting info. from what i've researched, the bad thing about opiates is, 1. you have to keep upping the dose, and worse 2. they take away your bodies natural pain killing ability. That has got to be a hell of a fix to be in. I am still not convinced Prince was just having pain problems, I still think it's possible that cancer or aids may have had him so he may have just thought "well, I'm going to die anyway, what's the point of not risking an od and then going through this pain". The whole situation still doesn't make sense to me and people are being too secretive about stuff, if not downright contradictory. With hindsight, there were some things that told us that he knew his time was short, what I call "death songs" (way back home, breakdown, time) but also some of the things like his last ama appearance, he comes onstage with a guitar even though he's not performing, it's like he's trying to stop people from looking too close at him.

.

Trying to stop people from looking too close at him?

Ignorance is a choice; people weren't born that way. You can try to educate someone, but if they don't want to hear it or believe it, then that is their choice. That's how I look at it, anyways.

EmmaMcG said:

Honestly, I wouldn't even waste my time worrying about it. From reading the other comments I know I'm probably in a minority but other people's opinions of Prince mean nothing to me. I don't care what people say about ME, let alone anyone else. If this woman thinks Prince was a drug addict, then what of it? You know he wasn't a drug addict. Isn't that enough?

Eh... no not really. Sociopaths aside most of us care what other people think and listen and consider their opinions, that interaction is kind of important in making us human. It'd be a boring day if I just locked myself away with a mirror and an unchallenged opinion.

jaawwnn said:

EmmaMcG said:

Honestly, I wouldn't even waste my time worrying about it. From reading the other comments I know I'm probably in a minority but other people's opinions of Prince mean nothing to me. I don't care what people say about ME, let alone anyone else. If this woman thinks Prince was a drug addict, then what of it? You know he wasn't a drug addict. Isn't that enough?

Eh... no not really. Sociopaths aside most of us care what other people think and listen and consider their opinions, that interaction is kind of important in making us human. It'd be a boring day if I just locked myself away with a mirror and an unchallenged opinion.

.

jaawwnn said:

EmmaMcG said:

Honestly, I wouldn't even waste my time worrying about it. From reading the other comments I know I'm probably in a minority but other people's opinions of Prince mean nothing to me. I don't care what people say about ME, let alone anyone else. If this woman thinks Prince was a drug addict, then what of it? You know he wasn't a drug addict. Isn't that enough?

Eh... no not really. Sociopaths aside most of us care what other people think and listen and consider their opinions, that interaction is kind of important in making us human. It'd be a boring day if I just locked myself away with a mirror and an unchallenged opinion.

jaawwnn said:

EmmaMcG said:

jaawwnn said:

Eh... no not really. Sociopaths aside most of us care what other people think and listen and consider their opinions, that interaction is kind of important in making us human. It'd be a boring day if I just locked myself away with a mirror and an unchallenged opinion.

I didn't say I don't consider other people's opinions on all matters. But when it comes to someone I don't know thinking another person I didn't know was a drug addict, then in that case, I don't care about their opinion. What difference does it make to me whether people say Prince was a drug addict or not? None. I didn't know Prince personally. I had a very brief conversation with him once but that wasn't enough to form an opinion on him. So just because I think he's the greatest musical artist of all time doesn't mean I'm going to get into an argument with a stranger who thinks he was a drug addict.

Ok, well I guess the context of the original post was that this is someone that the poster met at a community arts center, a social place. You don't wander into a community centre and start blanking everyone you disagree with.

As for the rest, I never met Prince beyond a concert setting, not even once, and i'm full of opinions on him and his life

jaawwnn said:

jaawwnn said:

EmmaMcG said:

jaawwnn said: I didn't say I don't consider other people's opinions on all matters. But when it comes to someone I don't know thinking another person I didn't know was a drug addict, then in that case, I don't care about their opinion. What difference does it make to me whether people say Prince was a drug addict or not? None. I didn't know Prince personally. I had a very brief conversation with him once but that wasn't enough to form an opinion on him. So just because I think he's the greatest musical artist of all time doesn't mean I'm going to get into an argument with a stranger who thinks he was a drug addict.

Ok, well I guess the context of the original post was that this is someone that the poster met at a community arts center, a social place. You don't wander into a community centre and start blanking everyone you disagree with.

As for the rest, I never met Prince beyond a concert setting, not even once, and i'm full of opinions on him and his life

are you kidding, no two people agree on much of anything. people fight and argue all the time in this society, that's pretty much all they do. Everyone has a different way of dealing with it. I generally don't get angry if someone calls springsteen a "dork" or that elvis was "the king of bullshit" i just don't. But I know enough about human communication to know that peoples egos and vanities make it hard to have a decent conversation. Sometimes i just tell people "don't introduce me to no more motherfuckers" or "keep my name out your mouth" always something negative being said or something that someone wrongly takes offense to. Try mentioning something about age and watch someone but in about how age is just a number or some shit just because they feel insecure about getting old. People are crazy.