Lovejunky said:

mjscarousal said:

Jay Z is a pathological liar, he does not own Prince masters. He is a poser in the highest form. He lies a lot about his business ventures and what he owns. He was rapping that he own the NETS NBA team and dude only owns 1.5% stake in the team. He is FRAUD just like his annoying wife.

I dont particularly like Jayzs music, and he is an odd looking kind of Character,but somehow he is sitting at a table with, amongst others, Phaedra , Llondell, Tyka and now Van Jones as of Dec 8,,,

All these people LOVE Prince..They are wanting to do the best for him out of Love and Respect

I have absolute faith they will work out something..

Jay Z does not care about Prince or his legacy. If he wins this, this is just something he will gloat about in his songs. Its sad you fans don't see this.

mjscarousal said:

laurarichardson said:

Did you miss what I wrote about him being a large shareholder? How do you think people become wealthy? They buy into business that already exsist.

That is not what you said previously. You said that Prince was probably interested in working with Jay Z because he was enthused about the idea of supporting a "Black Owned Business" and clearly based on the receipts and facts I posted, TIDAL is obviously not a Black owned business despite the perception and lie Jay Z tried to promote. Again, Jay Z is FULL of bullshit and he lied to Prince.

[Edited 12/27/16 6:36am]

But Jay-Z/RockNation is a large shareholder in the company and other artist (some black were offered shares in the business) it would be a majority black owned business. You have no way of knowing if and when Jay-Z or other black people will assume more shares of this company? You have no way of knowing if Prince had equity in the Tidal? Do you know anything about business?

Prince also said he liked the idea of supporting a new business and it is a new business.

I doubt Jay-Z lied to Prince. Prince was perfectly capable of using his own lawyers to find out any information he needed about Tidal. Stop making Prince seem like some moron who fell out of Cracker Jack box. He was a grown ass man perfectly capable of making his decisions. He did not last 38 years in the music industry by being a sucker. If you think that for a whole year Prince sent content to Tidal and did not receive one red cent you need help.

Why would he continue to send content if he received no upfront money or royalties or had no stake in the company? He was still sending content a few days before he died. If additional payments are due the court will see to it the funds are paid. I think you keep forgeting that the estate is being overseen by a court no stone will go unturned.

You also cannot explain why the bulk of the content is still on Tidal? Obviously, something is going on behind the scenes that we do not access to. I have confindence that if Van is selected as the admin that Prince's wished will be honored.

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

That is not what you said previously. You said that Prince was probably interested in working with Jay Z because he was enthused about the idea of supporting a "Black Owned Business" and clearly based on the receipts and facts I posted, TIDAL is obviously not a Black owned business despite the perception and lie Jay Z tried to promote. Again, Jay Z is FULL of bullshit and he lied to Prince.

[Edited 12/27/16 6:36am]

But Jay-Z/RockNation is a large shareholder in the company and other artist (some black were offered shares in the business) it would be a majority black owned business. You have no way of knowing if and when Jay-Z or other black people will assume more shares of this company? You have no way of knowing if Prince had equity in the Tidal? Do you know anything about business?

Prince also said he liked the idea of supporting a new business and it is a new business.

I doubt Jay-Z lied to Prince. Prince was perfectly capable of using his own lawyers to find out any information he needed about Tidal. Stop making Prince seem like some moron who fell out of Cracker Jack box. He was a grown ass man perfectly capable of making his decisions. He did not last 38 years in the music industry by being a sucker. If you think that for a whole year Prince sent content to Tidal and did not receive one red cent you need help.

Why would he continue to send content if he received no upfront money or royalties or had no stake in the company? He was still sending content a few days before he died. If additional payments are due the court will see to it the funds are paid. I think you keep forgeting that the estate is being overseen by a court no stone will go unturned.

You also cannot explain why the bulk of the content is still on Tidal? Obviously, something is going on behind the scenes that we do not access to. I have confindence that if Van is selected as the admin that Prince's wished will be honored.

Your back tracking now. You said that Prince supported Jay Z because he liked the idea of supporting a Black Owned Business. Do you want me to copy and past your quote???? It doesn't matter if Jay Z is a shareholder. He is not CEO and he does not own TIDAL....period. He DID lie because he promoted TIDAL as if he was the owner of the service and he is not. I never implied that Prince was a "moron" or not capable of making decisions. I have said from the very beginning that Prince was misled and trusted Jay Z. He probably was fed a bunch of lies and wanted to support Jay Z and his "fraudulent vision". Since Prince was very interested in mentoring and helping the next generation, I believe that is why he trusted Jay Z and wanted to support him and no that does not make him a moron. That actually makes him a honorable and admirable human being which most middle age adults should aspire too. Jay Z just took advantage. This is not rocket science.

mjscarousal said:

laurarichardson said:

But Jay-Z/RockNation is a large shareholder in the company and other artist (some black were offered shares in the business) it would be a majority black owned business. You have no way of knowing if and when Jay-Z or other black people will assume more shares of this company? You have no way of knowing if Prince had equity in the Tidal? Do you know anything about business?

Prince also said he liked the idea of supporting a new business and it is a new business.

I doubt Jay-Z lied to Prince. Prince was perfectly capable of using his own lawyers to find out any information he needed about Tidal. Stop making Prince seem like some moron who fell out of Cracker Jack box. He was a grown ass man perfectly capable of making his decisions. He did not last 38 years in the music industry by being a sucker. If you think that for a whole year Prince sent content to Tidal and did not receive one red cent you need help.

Why would he continue to send content if he received no upfront money or royalties or had no stake in the company? He was still sending content a few days before he died. If additional payments are due the court will see to it the funds are paid. I think you keep forgeting that the estate is being overseen by a court no stone will go unturned.

You also cannot explain why the bulk of the content is still on Tidal? Obviously, something is going on behind the scenes that we do not access to. I have confindence that if Van is selected as the admin that Prince's wished will be honored.

Your back tracking now. You said that Prince supported Jay Z because he liked the idea of supporting a Black Owned Business. Do you want me to copy and past your quote???? It doesn't matter if Jay Z is a shareholder. He is not CEO and he does not own TIDAL....period. He DID lie because he promoted TIDAL as if he was the owner of the service and he is not. I never implied that Prince was a "moron" or not capable of making decisions. I have said from the very beginning that Prince was misled and trusted Jay Z. He probably was fed a bunch of lies and wanted to support Jay Z and his "fraudulent vision". Since Prince was very interested in mentoring and helping the next generation, I believe that is why he trusted Jay Z and wanted to support him and no that does not make him a moron. That actually makes him a honorable and admirable human being which most middle age adults should aspire too. Jay Z just took advantage. This is not rocket science.

I believe that Prince did support the business because the majority of ownership was black. Prince never made that statement in print because he was not stupid. I meaning me believe that black ownership was one of his reasons for wanting to be involved. I am not backing down from that.

It does matter if Jay-Z is a majority shareholder in the company. Majority shareholders have more pull then a CEO who only server at the pleasure of a board of directors or owner(s). I do not know if Jay-Z ever said he was the sole owner of Tidal if he was he trying to use that to get others to buy shares in the company. You are going to have to find something to prove that he said he was the sole owner.

If he said it perhaps he meant it in a bragging matter much like Hip Hop itself. No one believes some dude has a 20 foot long private part because he puts that nonsense in a Rap song.It is called bragging or building something up. (Why does this have to be explained) What matters in a business is what is on paper and anyone that wanted to do business with Tidal or be a share owner would have access to the articles of incorporation and would find out who owned what portion of the company. It would not have been a mystery.

Jay Z did not take advangtage of Prince. Once again Prince had the means to find out anything he wanted to find out about Tidal he was not going to put his catalogue on a platform without checking it out first and I will never believe he received no money and keep the material up on the site for a year. This was a major business transaction for Prince and NPG LLP music he was not running a lemonade stand. If anything bad happend if was after he died which would fall in the lap of Pheadra and Breamer for not handling those matters in a timely fashion.

mjscarousal said:

laurarichardson said:

I don't think anyone took advantage of Prince. He taking those drugs I believe he knew the risk.

HUH? This is absolutely a ridiculous remark to make. This has nothing to do with Jay Z misleading and taking advantage of Prince and its quite evident he did this to other artists which is why he is being sued by a number of other artists, not just Prince. Again, I it very questionable you strongly defend Jay Z, even to the point you would insist Prince is at fault because he was on drugs?? Very strange for a Prince fan to say...

.

I'm quite perplexed by what Laura said also.... (Prince took the drugs and knew the risk)??.

.

I'm very surprised that you would say that, Laura given the fact that we still do not know at this time if he knew what he was taking, and we still do not know where the lethal Fentanyl came from.

Laura said:

.

Why would he continue to send content if he received no upfront money or royalties or had no stake in the company? He was still sending content a few days before he died.

.

My question is this; do we have proof that Prince was "physically" sending those files himself or did he instruct someone else to send files to Tidal?

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

That is not what you said previously. You said that Prince was probably interested in working with Jay Z because he was enthused about the idea of supporting a "Black Owned Business" and clearly based on the receipts and facts I posted, TIDAL is obviously not a Black owned business despite the perception and lie Jay Z tried to promote. Again, Jay Z is FULL of bullshit and he lied to Prince.

[Edited 12/27/16 6:36am]

But Jay-Z/RockNation is a large shareholder in the company and other artist (some black were offered shares in the business) it would be a majority black owned business. You have no way of knowing if and when Jay-Z or other black people will assume more shares of this company? You have no way of knowing if Prince had equity in the Tidal? Do you know anything about business?

Prince also said he liked the idea of supporting a new business and it is a new business.

I doubt Jay-Z lied to Prince. Prince was perfectly capable of using his own lawyers to find out any information he needed about Tidal. Stop making Prince seem like some moron who fell out of Cracker Jack box. He was a grown ass man perfectly capable of making his decisions. He did not last 38 years in the music industry by being a sucker. If you think that for a whole year Prince sent content to Tidal and did not receive one red cent you need help.

Why would he continue to send content if he received no upfront money or royalties or had no stake in the company? He was still sending content a few days before he died. If additional payments are due the court will see to it the funds are paid. I think you keep forgeting that the estate is being overseen by a court no stone will go unturned.

You also cannot explain why the bulk of the content is still on Tidal? Obviously, something is going on behind the scenes that we do not access to. I have confindence that if Van is selected as the admin that Prince's wished will be honored.

.

Laura: I don't think MJS was calling Prince a "moron". I think we all know he was a grown-ass Man, as you stated.

.

Just because a person can be mislead, does not mean they are a moron. Just saying.

cloveringold85 said:

mjscarousal said:

HUH? This is absolutely a ridiculous remark to make. This has nothing to do with Jay Z misleading and taking advantage of Prince and its quite evident he did this to other artists which is why he is being sued by a number of other artists, not just Prince. Again, I it very questionable you strongly defend Jay Z, even to the point you would insist Prince is at fault because he was on drugs?? Very strange for a Prince fan to say...

.

I'm quite perplexed by what Laura said also.... (Prince took the drugs and knew the risk)??.

.

I'm very surprised that you would say that, Laura given the fact that we still do not know at this time if he knew what he was taking, and we still do not know where the lethal Fentanyl came from.

Anytime you take any drugs with an Rx or without an Rx you are taking a risk. Pain pills will have damaging effects on your organs over time and if you are taking them without a doctor's supervision your are assuming a risk to your health.

I do not believe that Prince was strung on the meds he was taking but I do believe he was taking them off the books and therefore was playing a dangerous game with health.

I do not believe he knew he was taking the Fentanyl but I do believe he was taking some pain pills without the approval of a doctor.

[Edited 12/27/16 11:49am]

cloveringold85 said:

laurarichardson said:

But Jay-Z/RockNation is a large shareholder in the company and other artist (some black were offered shares in the business) it would be a majority black owned business. You have no way of knowing if and when Jay-Z or other black people will assume more shares of this company? You have no way of knowing if Prince had equity in the Tidal? Do you know anything about business?

Prince also said he liked the idea of supporting a new business and it is a new business.

I doubt Jay-Z lied to Prince. Prince was perfectly capable of using his own lawyers to find out any information he needed about Tidal. Stop making Prince seem like some moron who fell out of Cracker Jack box. He was a grown ass man perfectly capable of making his decisions. He did not last 38 years in the music industry by being a sucker. If you think that for a whole year Prince sent content to Tidal and did not receive one red cent you need help.

Why would he continue to send content if he received no upfront money or royalties or had no stake in the company? He was still sending content a few days before he died. If additional payments are due the court will see to it the funds are paid. I think you keep forgeting that the estate is being overseen by a court no stone will go unturned.

You also cannot explain why the bulk of the content is still on Tidal? Obviously, something is going on behind the scenes that we do not access to. I have confindence that if Van is selected as the admin that Prince's wished will be honored.

.

Laura: I don't think MJS was calling Prince a "moron". I think we all know he was a grown-ass Man, as you stated.

.

Just because a person can be mislead, does not mean they are a moron. Just saying.

You would have to be a moron to sign up with Tidal and not get paid especially if you had been complaining in the public about the awful money that other streaming services were offering. You would have to be a moron to not know who controls the company you are about to do business with or obtain a stake in. Anything concerning his deal with Tidal could have been ran pass his attorney and explained to him. If he did not do due dillegence at all that would make him a moron. I do not think he was a moron concerning this deal. I think he went into this deal to make money off his back catalogue.

We have also not seen any court papers concerning all these artist who are suing and why is so much content still on Tidal website if eveyone is suing.? Does Tidal have a means to not have copyright infringenment effect their company?

I am not defending Tidal in so much as I know the probate will get the money out of them if monies are due but I have yet to see anyone make a convincing argument that Tidal ripped Prince off while he was alive and well. Some of you are forgetting the problems seemed to have started after he passed away and those problems would fall on Pheadra who as the manager of the LLC would have been responsible for collecting all monies for royalites and licensing fees.

I find it odd that ROC Nation/Tidal has not submitted to the Estate supporting documents for Tidal's arguement. At a minimum, there has to be some document(s) that show the portion or amount of shares Prince would receive for the equity sharing.

In addition, I do not believe Tidal would pay $750k in cash. That would be a huge business expense for the corporation.

I am curious to who and when provided the music to Tidal. Did Tidal always have access to the music, just published it on the site on June 7th to maximize revenue?

I do agree that there does not seem, at least publicly, any issues between Tidal and Prince prior to his passing. The manager of the publishing LLC for NPG does seem to have "dropped the ball" on monitoring and ensuring that the publishing rights were protected and monies were collected.

nelcp777 said:

I find it odd that ROC Nation/Tidal has not submitted to the Estate supporting documents for Tidal's arguement. At a minimum, there has to be some document(s) that show the portion or amount of shares Prince would receive for the equity sharing.

In addition, I do not believe Tidal would pay $750k in cash. That would be a huge business expense for the corporation.

I am curious to who and when provided the music to Tidal. Did Tidal always have access to the music, just published it on the site on June 7th to maximize revenue?

I do agree that there does not seem, at least publicly, any issues between Tidal and Prince prior to his passing. The manager of the publishing LLC for NPG does seem to have "dropped the ball" on monitoring and ensuring that the publishing rights were protected and monies were collected.

------- I do agree that there does not seem, at least publicly, any issues between Tidal and Prince prior to his passing. The manager of the publishing LLC for NPG does seem to have "dropped the ball" on monitoring and ensuring that the publishing rights were protected and monies were collected.

Thank you I find it interesting that Pheadra has gotten an attorney and wants docs to be under seal.

What is she trying to hide as the court has already decided that some finanical information would be under seal for Propriety reasons but she appears to want all of the NPG LLC info under seal.

Something is fishy with her and NPG LLC or maybe she was just not the right person for managing the LLC in the first place.

laurarichardson said:

nelcp777 said:

I find it odd that ROC Nation/Tidal has not submitted to the Estate supporting documents for Tidal's arguement. At a minimum, there has to be some document(s) that show the portion or amount of shares Prince would receive for the equity sharing.

In addition, I do not believe Tidal would pay $750k in cash. That would be a huge business expense for the corporation.

I am curious to who and when provided the music to Tidal. Did Tidal always have access to the music, just published it on the site on June 7th to maximize revenue?

I do agree that there does not seem, at least publicly, any issues between Tidal and Prince prior to his passing. The manager of the publishing LLC for NPG does seem to have "dropped the ball" on monitoring and ensuring that the publishing rights were protected and monies were collected.

------- I do agree that there does not seem, at least publicly, any issues between Tidal and Prince prior to his passing. The manager of the publishing LLC for NPG does seem to have "dropped the ball" on monitoring and ensuring that the publishing rights were protected and monies were collected.

Thank you I find it interesting that Pheadra has gotten an attorney and wants docs to be under seal.

What is she trying to hide as the court has already decided that some finanical information would be under seal for Propriety reasons but she appears to want all of the NPG LLC info under seal.

Something is fishy with her and NPG LLC or maybe she was just not the right person for managing the LLC in the first place.

Her request for sealing documents could be 2 fold:

One, she provided the files after Prince's passing, which was not part of the original contract with Tidal.

Two, funds were collected at the LLC level, but never passed down to the shareholder(s). This may have not been intentional, but could be viewed as shady.

These points would also support your arguement that she was not right person for the managing of the LLC. Perhaps, as a sign of gratitude for getting Prince his masters, Prince listed her as a manager. For all we know, Prince could have had expectations of running NPG LLC and did not think much of having her listed as the manager.

I am sure that there is a lot more going on behind doors on the legal end than we know. I just can not understand why Tidal has not presented supporting documents for their arguement.

I know Prince was anti contract. I am inclined to believe that the BOD (Board of Directors) would not agree to a handshake deal. I find that hard to accept. Companies do not want to be involved in lengthy and expensive litigations, hence the contracts.

I believe that the agreement/contract between Prince and Tidal was smooth. After Prince's passing, I get the impression Tidal crossed lines and streamed music it was not contracted to stream.

nelcp777 said:

laurarichardson said:

------- I do agree that there does not seem, at least publicly, any issues between Tidal and Prince prior to his passing. The manager of the publishing LLC for NPG does seem to have "dropped the ball" on monitoring and ensuring that the publishing rights were protected and monies were collected.

Thank you I find it interesting that Pheadra has gotten an attorney and wants docs to be under seal.

What is she trying to hide as the court has already decided that some finanical information would be under seal for Propriety reasons but she appears to want all of the NPG LLC info under seal.

Something is fishy with her and NPG LLC or maybe she was just not the right person for managing the LLC in the first place.

Her request for sealing documents could be 2 fold:

One, she provided the files after Prince's passing, which was not part of the original contract with Tidal.

Two, funds were collected at the LLC level, but never passed down to the shareholder(s). This may have not been intentional, but could be viewed as shady.

These points would also support your arguement that she was not right person for the managing of the LLC. Perhaps, as a sign of gratitude for getting Prince his masters, Prince listed her as a manager. For all we know, Prince could have had expectations of running NPG LLC and did not think much of having her listed as the manager.

I am sure that there is a lot more going on behind doors on the legal end than we know. I just can not understand why Tidal has not presented supporting documents for their arguement.

I know Prince was anti contract. I am inclined to believe that the BOD (Board of Directors) would not agree to a handshake deal. I find that hard to accept. Companies do not want to be involved in lengthy and expensive litigations, hence the contracts.

I believe that the agreement/contract between Prince and Tidal was smooth. After Prince's passing, I get the impression Tidal crossed lines and streamed music it was not contracted to stream.

What if they streamed it because they got the okay to do it from Pheadra? They certainly had to get the files from someone affilated with the LLC. Without it being in writing because it might have been at the talking stages or a part of some memorandum of understanding which is not a contract. Maybe bringing in Van who introduced Prince to Pheadra is Omarr way of trying to correct matters.

cloveringold85 said:

Laura said:

.

Why would he continue to send content if he received no upfront money or royalties or had no stake in the company? He was still sending content a few days before he died.

.

My question is this; do we have proof that Prince was "physically" sending those files himself or did he instruct someone else to send files to Tidal?

You push a button. How much goes into sending a file.

laurarichardson said:

nelcp777 said:

Her request for sealing documents could be 2 fold:

One, she provided the files after Prince's passing, which was not part of the original contract with Tidal.

Two, funds were collected at the LLC level, but never passed down to the shareholder(s). This may have not been intentional, but could be viewed as shady.

These points would also support your arguement that she was not right person for the managing of the LLC. Perhaps, as a sign of gratitude for getting Prince his masters, Prince listed her as a manager. For all we know, Prince could have had expectations of running NPG LLC and did not think much of having her listed as the manager.

I am sure that there is a lot more going on behind doors on the legal end than we know. I just can not understand why Tidal has not presented supporting documents for their arguement.

I know Prince was anti contract. I am inclined to believe that the BOD (Board of Directors) would not agree to a handshake deal. I find that hard to accept. Companies do not want to be involved in lengthy and expensive litigations, hence the contracts.

I believe that the agreement/contract between Prince and Tidal was smooth. After Prince's passing, I get the impression Tidal crossed lines and streamed music it was not contracted to stream.

What if they streamed it because they got the okay to do it from Pheadra? They certainly had to get the files from someone affilated with the LLC. Without it being in writing because it might have been at the talking stages or a part of some memorandum of understanding which is not a contract. Maybe bringing in Van who introduced Prince to Pheadra is Omarr way of trying to correct matters.

That is a possible scenario and could have likely happened. However, since there was not a will, did the NPG LLC have the rights to arbitrarily release music? There is a lot we do not know, but I would imagine that the LLC would have to at a minimum, consult with the SA.

Bremer was going thru all of Prince's documents to determine what companies and business arrangements Prince was involved with. If Phaedra provided the files and gave permission, did she really have the authority? I understand she is listed as a manager, but if the LLC was not covered under a trust, then she should have gone to the SA. I mean, Bremer shut down the PP events, which is understandable.

The complexity of Prince's business is intriguing and also a headache. The Copyright laws alone seem to be nightmare.

If the NPG LLC was a trust, Phaedra would not have to have the documents sealed would she?

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I'm quite perplexed by what Laura said also.... (Prince took the drugs and knew the risk)??.

.

I'm very surprised that you would say that, Laura given the fact that we still do not know at this time if he knew what he was taking, and we still do not know where the lethal Fentanyl came from.

Anytime you take any drugs with an Rx or without an Rx you are taking a risk. Pain pills will have damaging effects on your organs over time and if you are taking them without a doctor's supervision your are assuming a risk to your health.

I do not believe that Prince was strung on the meds he was taking but I do believe he was taking them off the books and therefore was playing a dangerous game with health.

I do not believe he knew he was taking the Fentanyl but I do believe he was taking some pain pills without the approval of a doctor.

[Edited 12/27/16 11:49am]

.

Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up.

nelcp777 said:

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

Your back tracking now. You said that Prince supported Jay Z because he liked the idea of supporting a Black Owned Business. Do you want me to copy and past your quote???? It doesn't matter if Jay Z is a shareholder. He is not CEO and he does not own TIDAL....period. He DID lie because he promoted TIDAL as if he was the owner of the service and he is not. I never implied that Prince was a "moron" or not capable of making decisions. I have said from the very beginning that Prince was misled and trusted Jay Z. He probably was fed a bunch of lies and wanted to support Jay Z and his "fraudulent vision". Since Prince was very interested in mentoring and helping the next generation, I believe that is why he trusted Jay Z and wanted to support him and no that does not make him a moron. That actually makes him a honorable and admirable human being which most middle age adults should aspire too. Jay Z just took advantage. This is not rocket science.

I believe that Prince did support the business because the majority of ownership was black. Prince never made that statement in print because he was not stupid. I meaning me believe that black ownership was one of his reasons for wanting to be involved. I am not backing down from that.

It does matter if Jay-Z is a majority shareholder in the company. Majority shareholders have more pull then a CEO who only server at the pleasure of a board of directors or owner(s). I do not know if Jay-Z ever said he was the sole owner of Tidal if he was he trying to use that to get others to buy shares in the company. You are going to have to find something to prove that he said he was the sole owner.

If he said it perhaps he meant it in a bragging matter much like Hip Hop itself. No one believes some dude has a 20 foot long private part because he puts that nonsense in a Rap song.It is called bragging or building something up. (Why does this have to be explained) What matters in a business is what is on paper and anyone that wanted to do business with Tidal or be a share owner would have access to the articles of incorporation and would find out who owned what portion of the company. It would not have been a mystery.

Jay Z did not take advangtage of Prince. Once again Prince had the means to find out anything he wanted to find out about Tidal he was not going to put his catalogue on a platform without checking it out first and I will never believe he received no money and keep the material up on the site for a year. This was a major business transaction for Prince and NPG LLP music he was not running a lemonade stand. If anything bad happend if was after he died which would fall in the lap of Pheadra and Breamer for not handling those matters in a timely fashion.

WHY do you keep saying TIDAL is majority Black owned when it is not?????? I have already given you receipts that show it is not BUT you keep saying that it is??? I even posted a picture that shows that none of the workers at TIDAL are Black, not one Black person in that photo! Shareholder is NOT the same as CEO and a CEO is the highest rank and position in a company. Your dedication to TIDAL and Jay Z is mind blowing at this point.

[Edited 12/27/16 18:28pm]

mjscarousal said:

laurarichardson said:

I believe that Prince did support the business because the majority of ownership was black. Prince never made that statement in print because he was not stupid. I meaning me believe that black ownership was one of his reasons for wanting to be involved. I am not backing down from that.

It does matter if Jay-Z is a majority shareholder in the company. Majority shareholders have more pull then a CEO who only server at the pleasure of a board of directors or owner(s). I do not know if Jay-Z ever said he was the sole owner of Tidal if he was he trying to use that to get others to buy shares in the company. You are going to have to find something to prove that he said he was the sole owner.

If he said it perhaps he meant it in a bragging matter much like Hip Hop itself. No one believes some dude has a 20 foot long private part because he puts that nonsense in a Rap song.It is called bragging or building something up. (Why does this have to be explained) What matters in a business is what is on paper and anyone that wanted to do business with Tidal or be a share owner would have access to the articles of incorporation and would find out who owned what portion of the company. It would not have been a mystery.

Jay Z did not take advangtage of Prince. Once again Prince had the means to find out anything he wanted to find out about Tidal he was not going to put his catalogue on a platform without checking it out first and I will never believe he received no money and keep the material up on the site for a year. This was a major business transaction for Prince and NPG LLP music he was not running a lemonade stand. If anything bad happend if was after he died which would fall in the lap of Pheadra and Breamer for not handling those matters in a timely fashion.

WHY do you keep saying TIDAL is majority Black owned when it is not?????? I have already given you receipts that show it is not BUT you keep saying that it is??? I even posted a picture that shows that none of the workers at TIDAL are Black, not one Black person in that photo! Shareholder is NOT the same as CEO and a CEO is the highest rank and position in a company. Your dedication to TIDAL and Jay Z is mind blowing at this point.

[Edited 12/27/16 18:28pm]

Do you know anything about business? All you did was show a picture of a bunch of people that are supposed to be employees of Tidal. The picture of a bunch of people tells us nothing and is not a receipt ( you say proof ) about who the shareholders are. Even if these people in the picture are employees that does not mean that are shareholders in the company also known as owners. The people in the picture could be shareholders if part of their compensation is stock but I have no way of knowing if this is the case. Do you know if he people in the picture are shareholders? In a nutshell the employees could have nothing to do with the majority ownership of the company.

You are correct a shareholder is not the same as a CEO. A shareholder actually has ownership in the company and depending on how many shares they own they along with other shareholders can have much more power than a CEO.

Please see some definitions

Chief executive officer

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Redirected from CEO)

"Chief Executive", "CEO", and "CEOs" redirect here. For other uses, see Chief executive (disambiguation) and CEO (disambiguation).

A chief executive officer (CEO)[1] describes the position of the most senior corporate officer, executive, leader or administrator in charge of managing an organization. CEOs lead a range of organizations, including public and private corporations, non-profit organizations and even some government organizations (e.g., Crown corporations). The CEO of a corporation or company typically reports to the board of directors and is charged with maximizing the value of the entity,[2] which may include maximizing the share price, market share, revenues, or another element. In the non-profit and government sector, CEOs typically aim at achieving outcomes related to the organization's mission, such as reducing poverty, increasing literacy, etc. Titles also often given to the holder of CEO position include president and chief executive (CE).[3]

Responsibilities

The responsibilities of an organization's CEO are set by the organization's board of directors or other authority, depending on the organization's legal structure. They can be far-reaching or quite limited and are typically enshrined in a formal delegation of authority. Typically, responsibilities include decision maker on strategy and other key policy issues, leader, manager, and executor. The communicator role can involve speaking to the press and the rest of the outside world, as well as to the organization's management and employees; the decision-making role involves high-level decisions about policy and strategy. As a leader of the company, the CEO/MD advises the board of directors, motivates employees, and drives change within the organization. As a manager, the CEO/MD presides over the organization's day-to-day operations.[4][5][6] The term refers to the person who makes all the key decisions regarding the company, which includes all sectors and fields of the business, including operations, marketing, business development, finance, human resources, etc. The CEO of a company is not necessarily the owner of the company.

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[Edited 12/28/16 6:13am]

mjscarousal said:

laurarichardson said:

I believe that Prince did support the business because the majority of ownership was black. Prince never made that statement in print because he was not stupid. I meaning me believe that black ownership was one of his reasons for wanting to be involved. I am not backing down from that.

It does matter if Jay-Z is a majority shareholder in the company. Majority shareholders have more pull then a CEO who only server at the pleasure of a board of directors or owner(s). I do not know if Jay-Z ever said he was the sole owner of Tidal if he was he trying to use that to get others to buy shares in the company. You are going to have to find something to prove that he said he was the sole owner.

If he said it perhaps he meant it in a bragging matter much like Hip Hop itself. No one believes some dude has a 20 foot long private part because he puts that nonsense in a Rap song.It is called bragging or building something up. (Why does this have to be explained) What matters in a business is what is on paper and anyone that wanted to do business with Tidal or be a share owner would have access to the articles of incorporation and would find out who owned what portion of the company. It would not have been a mystery.

Jay Z did not take advangtage of Prince. Once again Prince had the means to find out anything he wanted to find out about Tidal he was not going to put his catalogue on a platform without checking it out first and I will never believe he received no money and keep the material up on the site for a year. This was a major business transaction for Prince and NPG LLP music he was not running a lemonade stand. If anything bad happend if was after he died which would fall in the lap of Pheadra and Breamer for not handling those matters in a timely fashion.

WHY do you keep saying TIDAL is majority Black owned when it is not?????? I have already given you receipts that show it is not BUT you keep saying that it is??? I even posted a picture that shows that none of the workers at TIDAL are Black, not one Black person in that photo! Shareholder is NOT the same as CEO and a CEO is the highest rank and position in a company. Your dedication to TIDAL and Jay Z is mind blowing at this point.

[Edited 12/27/16 18:28pm]

I really want you to read this below and think about it.

I have no dedication to Jay-Z or Tidal. I simply look at the facts which have been discussed in the above conversations if you would take the time to read something instead of going off of emotion you would see the big picture.

You do not like Jay-Z we get it so what. It has nothing to do with anything at all and if you took the time to read anything you would now that Jay-Z and other artist have an equity stake in Tidal we have no idea how much they have because it is a private company but it is possible that combined the group as a whole may have a majority share. He raised and spent 54 million to buy into the company I doubt he raised that money so he could be or remain a minority shareholder.

If you took two minutes to think you might wonder why so much hatred has been going on since Jay-Z and other artist brought into this business. Did you ever think the music industry might not like the idea of artist actually owning a stake in a streaming service considering the amount of profit streaming services and record labels are making and not including the artist in on?

Did you ever think that if artist own the streaming service they could eventually just put their music on the service without a record label at all?

Do you not realize that this is exactly what Prince was talking about 20 years ago?

Why do you think there is negativity against this company and this business model?

No one gives a rat’s ass about Jay-Z past as a drug dealer or that he was a rap artist there are people in the music industry who simply do not want artist to own a streaming services.

laurarichardson said:

nelcp777 said:

That is a possible scenario and could have likely happened. However, since there was not a will, did the NPG LLC have the rights to arbitrarily release music? There is a lot we do not know, but I would imagine that the LLC would have to at a minimum, consult with the SA.

Bremer was going thru all of Prince's documents to determine what companies and business arrangements Prince was involved with. If Phaedra provided the files and gave permission, did she really have the authority? I understand she is listed as a manager, but if the LLC was not covered under a trust, then she should have gone to the SA. I mean, Bremer shut down the PP events, which is understandable.

The complexity of Prince's business is intriguing and also a headache. The Copyright laws alone seem to be nightmare.

If the NPG LLC was a trust, Phaedra would not have to have the documents sealed would she?

-/Why is the lawsuit in Federal court NPG LLC vs Roc Nation and not the Estate of Prince Rogers Nelson vs Roc Nation? I would think the LLC if it is a part of the estate would not be listed as the party suing. In fact Pheadra would have been working for the estate as soon as Breamer took over. In fact I think they would have dismissed her and just had Universal administer. Which right now people on Facebook are saying that takedown notices are coming from the LLC not Universal. Who is acting as the admin for the estate?

Perhaps the lawsuit is in federal court due to the copyright of Prince's music is owned by the LLC, which according to Chapter 91, subsection 1498 of the Copyright Law:

(b) Hereafter, whenever the copyright in any work protected under the copyright laws of the United States shall be infringed by the United States, by a corporation owned or controlled by the United States, or by a contractor, subcontractor, or any person, firm, or corporation acting for the Government and with the authorization or consent of the Government, the exclusive action which may be brought for such infringement shall be an action by the copyright owner against the United States in the Court of Federal Claims for the recovery of his reasonable and entire compensation as damages for such infringement, including the minimum statutory damages as set forth in section 504(c) of title 17, United States Code: Provided, That a Government employee shall have a right of action against the Government under this subsection except where he was in a position to order, influence, or induce use of the copyrighted work by the Government: Provided, however, That this subsection shall not confer a right of action on any copyright owner or any assignee of such owner with respect to any copyrighted work prepared by a person while in the employment or service of the United States, where the copyrighted work was prepared as a part of the official functions of the employee, or in the preparation of which Government time, material, or facilities were used: And provided further, That before such action against the United States has been instituted the appropriate corporation owned or controlled by the United States or the head of the appropriate department or agency of the Government, as the case may be, is authorized to enter into an agreement with the copyright owner in full settlement and compromise for the damages accruing to him by reason of such infringement and to settle the claim administratively out of available appropriations.

Except as otherwise provided by law, no recovery shall be had for any infringement of a copyright covered by this subsection committed more than three years prior to the filing of the complaint or counterclaim for infringement in the action, except that the period between the date of receipt of a written claim for compensation by the Department or agency of the Government or corporation owned or controlled by the United States, as the case may be, having authority to settle such claim and the date of mailing by the Government of a notice to the claimant that his claim has been denied shall not be counted as a part of the three years, unless suit is brought before the last-mentioned date.

(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any claim arising in a foreign country.

* * * * * * * * * *

(e) Subsections (b) and (c) of this section apply to exclusive rights in mask works under chapter 9of title 17, and to exclusive rights in designs under chapter 13 of title 17, to the same extent as such subsections apply to copyrights.

Here is the link:

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92appi.html

Again, after briefly reading the Copyright law, and I do mean briefly, I cannot imagine the complexity of the recording contracts. Not to mention the headaches and nightmares in the contract language.

There are missing pieces on the LLC, in my opinion. We do not know if it was set up as a trust. Also, I am inclined to believe that there are actions that are sealed with the court regarding the LLC that we are not aware of. We do not know if the LLC is in control of the Estate. I do believe the LLC does add value to the Estate, perhaps that is why it is in the Estate court documents.

We also do not know if Pheadra is currently managing the LLC. Perhaps the Universal deal was done because the non-excluded heirs felt Phaedra was not upholding her duties? Pure speculation.

nelcp777 said:

laurarichardson said:

nelcp777 said: -/Why is the lawsuit in Federal court NPG LLC vs Roc Nation and not the Estate of Prince Rogers Nelson vs Roc Nation? I would think the LLC if it is a part of the estate would not be listed as the party suing. In fact Pheadra would have been working for the estate as soon as Breamer took over. In fact I think they would have dismissed her and just had Universal administer. Which right now people on Facebook are saying that takedown notices are coming from the LLC not Universal. Who is acting as the admin for the estate?

Perhaps the lawsuit is in federal court due to the copyright of Prince's music is owned by the LLC, which according to Chapter 91, subsection 1498 of the Copyright Law:

(b) Hereafter, whenever the copyright in any work protected under the copyright laws of the United States shall be infringed by the United States, by a corporation owned or controlled by the United States, or by a contractor, subcontractor, or any person, firm, or corporation acting for the Government and with the authorization or consent of the Government, the exclusive action which may be brought for such infringement shall be an action by the copyright owner against the United States in the Court of Federal Claims for the recovery of his reasonable and entire compensation as damages for such infringement, including the minimum statutory damages as set forth in section 504(c) of title 17, United States Code: Provided, That a Government employee shall have a right of action against the Government under this subsection except where he was in a position to order, influence, or induce use of the copyrighted work by the Government: Provided, however, That this subsection shall not confer a right of action on any copyright owner or any assignee of such owner with respect to any copyrighted work prepared by a person while in the employment or service of the United States, where the copyrighted work was prepared as a part of the official functions of the employee, or in the preparation of which Government time, material, or facilities were used: And provided further, That before such action against the United States has been instituted the appropriate corporation owned or controlled by the United States or the head of the appropriate department or agency of the Government, as the case may be, is authorized to enter into an agreement with the copyright owner in full settlement and compromise for the damages accruing to him by reason of such infringement and to settle the claim administratively out of available appropriations.

Except as otherwise provided by law, no recovery shall be had for any infringement of a copyright covered by this subsection committed more than three years prior to the filing of the complaint or counterclaim for infringement in the action, except that the period between the date of receipt of a written claim for compensation by the Department or agency of the Government or corporation owned or controlled by the United States, as the case may be, having authority to settle such claim and the date of mailing by the Government of a notice to the claimant that his claim has been denied shall not be counted as a part of the three years, unless suit is brought before the last-mentioned date.

(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any claim arising in a foreign country.

* * * * * * * * * *

(e) Subsections (b) and (c) of this section apply to exclusive rights in mask works under chapter 9of title 17, and to exclusive rights in designs under chapter 13 of title 17, to the same extent as such subsections apply to copyrights.

Here is the link:

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92appi.html

Again, after briefly reading the Copyright law, and I do mean briefly, I cannot imagine the complexity of the recording contracts. Not to mention the headaches and nightmares in the contract language.

There are missing pieces on the LLC, in my opinion. We do not know if it was set up as a trust. Also, I am inclined to believe that there are actions that are sealed with the court regarding the LLC that we are not aware of. We do not know if the LLC is in control of the Estate. I do believe the LLC does add value to the Estate, perhaps that is why it is in the Estate court documents.

We also do not know if Pheadra is currently managing the LLC. Perhaps the Universal deal was done because the non-excluded heirs felt Phaedra was not upholding her duties? Pure speculation.

If the LLC is now a part of the estate it would just be another assest that can be managed as a part of the estate or sold off just like other properties were sold however, I noticed that the Purple Rain house was not put on the market and that house was purchased by the LLC.

I guess the missing piece here is that we do not know how the LLC was structed and Universal could have been brought in to manage the LLC and not actually completely take over admin duites. I know people are saying take down notices are coming from the LLC not Universal.

many artists could have done this streaming stuff properly 10-12 yrs ago. that it has suddenly become "a thing" makes it very suspicious to me. if artist turly meant to be free, including mr. nelson who prefered to spend his money on farmland and fancy suits(his perogative) all of this would have happened sooner. and jay-zis SO deep in the industry there is no fucking way TIdal isn't some kind of industry thing. to hell with the pitch- jay-z is as much a corporate spokesman as christy turlington is for maybeline.

wavesofbliss said:

many artists could have done this streaming stuff properly 10-12 yrs ago. that it has suddenly become "a thing" makes it very suspicious to me. if artist turly meant to be free, including mr. nelson who prefered to spend his money on farmland and fancy suits(his perogative) all of this would have happened sooner. and jay-zis SO deep in the industry there is no fucking way TIdal isn't some kind of industry thing. to hell with the pitch- jay-z is as much a corporate spokesman as christy turlington is for maybeline.

Prince had a subscription service 15 years ago and people bitched about how elistist it was. A lot of that bitching was done on this board. Prince worked with record lables as a partner and independenly much more than any artist at this level. The last CD he put out was done independently and he was using a peer to peer distrubution system.

Spending his money on real estate was a smart move. Look at what it was worth. Land is never going to lose its value.

If you look into Tidal it is not owned by any of the labels however, it would not surprise me if one of the lables tries to buy it or Apple or Goggle tries to buy it.

A independly run streaming company not controlled by established record lables is possible. A few years ago people were not taking OWN serisouly yet the women that use to host and produce programming now owns a network.

[Edited 12/28/16 10:50am]

laurarichardson said:

nelcp777 said:

Perhaps the lawsuit is in federal court due to the copyright of Prince's music is owned by the LLC, which according to Chapter 91, subsection 1498 of the Copyright Law:

(b) Hereafter, whenever the copyright in any work protected under the copyright laws of the United States shall be infringed by the United States, by a corporation owned or controlled by the United States, or by a contractor, subcontractor, or any person, firm, or corporation acting for the Government and with the authorization or consent of the Government, the exclusive action which may be brought for such infringement shall be an action by the copyright owner against the United States in the Court of Federal Claims for the recovery of his reasonable and entire compensation as damages for such infringement, including the minimum statutory damages as set forth in section 504(c) of title 17, United States Code: Provided, That a Government employee shall have a right of action against the Government under this subsection except where he was in a position to order, influence, or induce use of the copyrighted work by the Government: Provided, however, That this subsection shall not confer a right of action on any copyright owner or any assignee of such owner with respect to any copyrighted work prepared by a person while in the employment or service of the United States, where the copyrighted work was prepared as a part of the official functions of the employee, or in the preparation of which Government time, material, or facilities were used: And provided further, That before such action against the United States has been instituted the appropriate corporation owned or controlled by the United States or the head of the appropriate department or agency of the Government, as the case may be, is authorized to enter into an agreement with the copyright owner in full settlement and compromise for the damages accruing to him by reason of such infringement and to settle the claim administratively out of available appropriations.

Except as otherwise provided by law, no recovery shall be had for any infringement of a copyright covered by this subsection committed more than three years prior to the filing of the complaint or counterclaim for infringement in the action, except that the period between the date of receipt of a written claim for compensation by the Department or agency of the Government or corporation owned or controlled by the United States, as the case may be, having authority to settle such claim and the date of mailing by the Government of a notice to the claimant that his claim has been denied shall not be counted as a part of the three years, unless suit is brought before the last-mentioned date.

(c) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any claim arising in a foreign country.

* * * * * * * * * *

(e) Subsections (b) and (c) of this section apply to exclusive rights in mask works under chapter 9of title 17, and to exclusive rights in designs under chapter 13 of title 17, to the same extent as such subsections apply to copyrights.

Here is the link:

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92appi.html

Again, after briefly reading the Copyright law, and I do mean briefly, I cannot imagine the complexity of the recording contracts. Not to mention the headaches and nightmares in the contract language.

There are missing pieces on the LLC, in my opinion. We do not know if it was set up as a trust. Also, I am inclined to believe that there are actions that are sealed with the court regarding the LLC that we are not aware of. We do not know if the LLC is in control of the Estate. I do believe the LLC does add value to the Estate, perhaps that is why it is in the Estate court documents.

We also do not know if Pheadra is currently managing the LLC. Perhaps the Universal deal was done because the non-excluded heirs felt Phaedra was not upholding her duties? Pure speculation.

If the LLC is now a part of the estate it would just be another assest that can be managed as a part of the estate or sold off just like other properties were sold however, I noticed that the Purple Rain house was not put on the market and that house was purchased by the LLC.

I guess the missing piece here is that we do not know how the LLC was structed and Universal could have been brought in to manage the LLC and not actually completely take over admin duites. I know people are saying take down notices are coming from the LLC not Universal.

It is quite possible Universal is managing the LLC and ensuring the publishing is being paid and protected. That may also explain why the LLC is doing the takedown notices and not Universal. (I am not a lawer so I am speculating).

The nonexcluded heirs may have decided not to sell the PR house either for possible tours or per Prince's wishes, like the museum. Again, speculation. It was revealed that the LLC did purchase the house. I found it interesting Prince purchased the house.

Which lends me to believe that Prince was looking at a lot of non-performing/retirement options to generate money. The PP museum and house may have been ideals to generate revenue. Prince seemed to be heading to rentals, though I have no evidence, just speculating.

The LLC seems to be another possible revenue generator. Selling tickets to shows was not an issue. Prince addressed the lack of revenue in music sales in interviews.

Tidal was pushed as an equity share business. Supposedly, no one has majority sales. I read that Jay-Z put about $56M into the company. The business model is that artists get equal equity shares and there are performer exclusives to generate sales. That was the sales pitch. Some artists jumped on board, Rihanna, Kanye, and even Prince at a later time. Here is a link to an article that gives some history on Tidal:

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-jay-zs-tidal-music-streaming-service-2016-8/#shortly-after-the-relaunch-word-came-that-chen-was-out-as-ceo-swedish-news-site-breakit-claimed-that-25-employees-in-aspiros-norway-office-had-also-been-forced-to-leave-tidal-denied-the-job-cuts-however-referring-to-them-as-redundancies-and-streamlining-15

Lastly, if Phaedra did leak the files to Tidal accidentally, why is Tidal not providing documents that the Estate is asking for? The lack of response from Tidal is raising flags to me,

nelcp777 said:

laurarichardson said:

If the LLC is now a part of the estate it would just be another assest that can be managed as a part of the estate or sold off just like other properties were sold however, I noticed that the Purple Rain house was not put on the market and that house was purchased by the LLC.

I guess the missing piece here is that we do not know how the LLC was structed and Universal could have been brought in to manage the LLC and not actually completely take over admin duites. I know people are saying take down notices are coming from the LLC not Universal.

It is quite possible Universal is managing the LLC and ensuring the publishing is being paid and protected. That may also explain why the LLC is doing the takedown notices and not Universal. (I am not a lawer so I am speculating).

The nonexcluded heirs may have decided not to sell the PR house either for possible tours or per Prince's wishes, like the museum. Again, speculation. It was revealed that the LLC did purchase the house. I found it interesting Prince purchased the house.

Which lends me to believe that Prince was looking at a lot of non-performing/retirement options to generate money. The PP museum and house may have been ideals to generate revenue. Prince seemed to be heading to rentals, though I have no evidence, just speculating.

The LLC seems to be another possible revenue generator. Selling tickets to shows was not an issue. Prince addressed the lack of revenue in music sales in interviews.

Tidal was pushed as an equity share business. Supposedly, no one has majority sales. I read that Jay-Z put about $56M into the company. The business model is that artists get equal equity shares and there are performer exclusives to generate sales. That was the sales pitch. Some artists jumped on board, Rihanna, Kanye, and even Prince at a later time. Here is a link to an article that gives some history on Tidal:

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-jay-zs-tidal-music-streaming-service-2016-8/#shortly-after-the-relaunch-word-came-that-chen-was-out-as-ceo-swedish-news-site-breakit-claimed-that-25-employees-in-aspiros-norway-office-had-also-been-forced-to-leave-tidal-denied-the-job-cuts-however-referring-to-them-as-redundancies-and-streamlining-15

Lastly, if Phaedra did leak the files to Tidal accidentally, why is Tidal not providing documents that the Estate is asking for? The lack of response from Tidal is raising flags to me,

Prince had been buying Real Estate both residential and commercial for years. I believe he was really running a whole another real estate business aside from his music interest one of his properties is a 20 million dollar commercial building.

If supposedly, none of the artist have majority shares then the original owners of the company Aspiro would still hold the majority shares and I would think that they may be the ones holding on to documents. The company is based out of Sweden and they do not have to do what our Federal courts say. The admin for Prince's estate and the courts would have to work with the Swedish Govt to stop copyright infringement. Also any documents that Tidal has would be proprietary information and Tidal could be concerned about information about their business getting out to their competitors. I doubt if they turn over anything without getting a lot of info redacted. In addtion, Breamer is out so maybe they knew that and want to see what happens with the new admin.

of course land is agood sound investment. my point is that for someone who bitched and complained as much as he did about the industry,system etc. while having plenty of means to rectify his own situations he did not put his money where his mouth was. he could have spent 10-20 million that he holds in land and developed his own streaming service where by he could stream old on new and vault stuff with no interference. it would be a secure place to maintian and control the output of his music and provide a steady stream of income, ideally becoming self-sustaining. those were my hopes for the NPGMC and what he charged as a membership fee could have helped provide maintence and up kept for the service. instead he used it to vet and arguably fleece his fanbase. another opportunity lost.

wavesofbliss said:

of course land is agood sound investment. my point is that for someone who bitched and complained as much as he did about the industry,system etc. while having plenty of means to rectify his own situations he did not put his money where his mouth was. he could have spent 10-20 million that he holds in land and developed his own streaming service where by he could stream old on new and vault stuff with no interference. it would be a secure place to maintian and control the output of his music and provide a steady stream of income, ideally becoming self-sustaining. those were my hopes for the NPGMC and what he charged as a membership fee could have helped provide maintence and up kept for the service. instead he used it to vet and arguably fleece his fanbase. another opportunity lost.

I guess you expected an independent artist to use his own money to start a streaming service with only his music on it because how would he have conveinced other artist to leave their lables.

He would have lost his shirt doing something like that with his own money. You never use your own money. You find investerors or you go to banks. Do you think Jay used his own 54 million to buy into Tidal? Prince had a small music club for a few years that allowed fans to go to sound checks and after parties and get some music. It suited his purpose and I do not remember anyone complaining about the soundchecks or after parties. I do remember people complaining about the price and the elististness have having to essentially rent the music.

My guess is he probaly did not get more than a few thousand members and probaly bearly broke even on it since people back then were stuck on CDs and bitching about files they could not own.

Now millions of people pay for streaming services for files they still do not own.While thousands of artist continue to receive mere pennies in revenue.

laurarichardson said:

wavesofbliss said:

of course land is agood sound investment. my point is that for someone who bitched and complained as much as he did about the industry,system etc. while having plenty of means to rectify his own situations he did not put his money where his mouth was. he could have spent 10-20 million that he holds in land and developed his own streaming service where by he could stream old on new and vault stuff with no interference. it would be a secure place to maintian and control the output of his music and provide a steady stream of income, ideally becoming self-sustaining. those were my hopes for the NPGMC and what he charged as a membership fee could have helped provide maintence and up kept for the service. instead he used it to vet and arguably fleece his fanbase. another opportunity lost.

I guess you expected an independent artist to use his own money to start a streaming service with only his music on it because how would he have conveinced other artist to leave their lables.

.

yep. just like truly independant artists do who work at domino's on the wkend to buy studio time or press up their own cds. yep, just like ani difrance and countless other independent artists who don't own 50 million in real estate purchased with money they earned from being a major label artist for 15 yrs. artists who don't go around preaching about being "free and independant" while they live like kept women on major label money. the 90s were a major transistion in the record industry. 2000s are a major transistion in distribution and IP rights. oh and fuck jz!

wavesofbliss said:

laurarichardson said:

I guess you expected an independent artist to use his own money to start a streaming service with only his music on it because how would he have conveinced other artist to leave their lables.

.

yep. just like truly independant artists do who work at domino's on the wkend to buy studio time or press up their own cds. yep, just like ani difrance and countless other independent artists who don't own 50 million in real estate purchased with money they earned from being a major label artist for 15 yrs. artists who don't go around preaching about being "free and independant" while they live like kept women on major label money. the 90s were a major transistion in the record industry. 2000s are a major transistion in distribution and IP rights. oh and fuck jz!

Prince printed up his own CDs for most of the last 15 years and according to the promoters of Musicology split the cost of producting those CDs at the concerts making 6 million off them.

Sorry but the whole idea of leaving a major lable was to make more money off the recorded music not less. Prince never worked a job outside of the music business and he would not have been successful if he started delivering pizzas at 40. You move up not back.

Nobody cares about Jay-Z but you keep yelling fuck Jay Z if it makes you feel better.