cloveringold85 said:

Lovejunky said:

This troubles me too....

The People who handled him for years are bowing out ?

They must be very disgruntled about something/someone !!!!!!

.

Maybe they feel they are in over their head with this and/or they can't make any headway with Prince's siblings?

.

They are a bank and wealth managment firm not estate attorney's I belive that Tyka went to them because Prince banked with them and this is how the family was able to get a hold of banking accounts to pay bills and take care of things the first few months.

I do not think Breamer was ever going to stay around for long. The New Zealand crap tells me they are out of the area of expertise.

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Maybe they feel they are in over their head with this and/or they can't make any headway with Prince's siblings?

.

They are a bank and wealth managment firm not estate attorney's I belive that Tyka went to them because Prince banked with them and this is how the family was able to get a hold of banking accounts to pay bills and take care of things the first few months.

I do not think Breamer was ever going to stay around for long. The New Zealand crap tells me they are out of the area of expertise.

.

Thanks for the info!

Um.... why do yall keep saying Prince was getting paid. Prince was NOT getting paid, there are documents that prove that, there is even a link even in this thread talking about it. I need to find it, I read it some where.

Noodled24 said:

mjscarousal said:

I understand that.....HOWEVER, no one who truly respects an artist would be trying to capitalizing off of the death of them by streaming their music without their permission and not paying their Estate. That is shady and taking complete advantage of someone.

Tidal HAD Prince's permission. He died and now the family are trying to undo what Prince did. FACT.

They're so quick to take things down without offering any alternative. THAT is what leads to piracy.

You also have no evidence Tidal wasn't paying the estate. If the estate is planning to have Prince's catalog streaming on other services, good luck to them. I'm sure they'll make literally hundreds of dollars.

NO, the family wants to preserve and protect Prince legacy and they have a RIGHT to do that. Its GOOD they are looking into TIDAL's activity in handling Prince music and there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the way it has been handled ESPECIALLY if TIDAL has been doing shady things. TIDAL has multiple lawsuits from other artists that they have not paid and TIDAL was streaming Prince songs that were not in the agreement for them to stream.

mjscarousal said:

mjscarousal said:

Noodled24 said:

Tidal HAD Prince's permission. He died and now the family are trying to undo what Prince did. FACT.

They're so quick to take things down without offering any alternative. THAT is what leads to piracy.

You also have no evidence Tidal wasn't paying the estate. If the estate is planning to have Prince's catalog streaming on other services, good luck to them. I'm sure they'll make literally hundreds of dollars.

NO, the family wants to preserve and protect Prince legacy and they have a RIGHT to do that. Its GOOD they are looking into TIDAL's activity in handling Prince music and there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the way it has been handled ESPECIALLY if TIDAL has been doing shady things. TIDAL has multiple lawsuits from other artists that they have not paid and TIDAL was streaming Prince songs that were not in the agreement for them to stream.

The family does have the right... but obviously undoing what Prince did, doesn't look good. It also means portions of his catalog are (once again) only available via piracy.

Noodled24 said:

mjscarousal said:

NO, the family wants to preserve and protect Prince legacy and they have a RIGHT to do that. Its GOOD they are looking into TIDAL's activity in handling Prince music and there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the way it has been handled ESPECIALLY if TIDAL has been doing shady things. TIDAL has multiple lawsuits from other artists that they have not paid and TIDAL was streaming Prince songs that were not in the agreement for them to stream.

The family does have the right... but obviously undoing what Prince did, doesn't look good. It also means portions of his catalog are (once again) only available via piracy.

Just a quick question: I thought I'd seen that the agreement with Tidal was for a 90 day period for specific music. Didn't Tidal stream for that time frame, but then went beyond what was included in the agreement with Prince (as far as we know) by streaming other music from his catalogue? I'm confused as to what the family "undid" that Prince wanted? I have not been following this thread closely so I hope someone can clarify for me?

Mumio said:

Noodled24 said:

The family does have the right... but obviously undoing what Prince did, doesn't look good. It also means portions of his catalog are (once again) only available via piracy.

Just a quick question: I thought I'd seen that the agreement with Tidal was for a 90 day period for specific music. Didn't Tidal stream for that time frame, but then went beyond what was included in the agreement with Prince (as far as we know) by streaming other music from his catalogue? I'm confused as to what the family "undid" that Prince wanted? I have not been following this thread closely so I hope someone can clarify for me?

As I understand it...The agreement was that Tidal could have it EXCLUSIVELY for 90 Days...After that Prince would have the option to move it to other additional platforms if he desired...

I could have it wrong...but this makes sense to me, since Prince liked to remain fluid and unbound by strict contractual agreements...He worked with his GUT instincts a lot and thus often changed direction frequently....

Mumio said:

Noodled24 said:

The family does have the right... but obviously undoing what Prince did, doesn't look good. It also means portions of his catalog are (once again) only available via piracy.

Just a quick question: I thought I'd seen that the agreement with Tidal was for a 90 day period for specific music. Didn't Tidal stream for that time frame, but then went beyond what was included in the agreement with Prince (as far as we know) by streaming other music from his catalogue? I'm confused as to what the family "undid" that Prince wanted? I have not been following this thread closely so I hope someone can clarify for me?

Prince went out of his way to remove everything from everywhere, then he put it all on Tidal. He followed that up with exclusive content in the form of music, videos, and live streams.

Posthumously dragging Prince into another lawsuit regarding his music & the one company he openly supported is dumb. It looks terrible, and nobody wins.

I don't think there is any doubt that the estate will win against Tidal. Tidal have already started removing things. But you seem unaware of things like the "Rally for Peace", "Baltimore", "Oui Can Luv", "Stare" - Prince didn't put his catalog on there and walk away. He kept adding.

Noodled24 said:

Mumio said:

Just a quick question: I thought I'd seen that the agreement with Tidal was for a 90 day period for specific music. Didn't Tidal stream for that time frame, but then went beyond what was included in the agreement with Prince (as far as we know) by streaming other music from his catalogue? I'm confused as to what the family "undid" that Prince wanted? I have not been following this thread closely so I hope someone can clarify for me?

Prince went out of his way to remove everything from everywhere, then he put it all on Tidal. He followed that up with exclusive content in the form of music, videos, and live streams.

Posthumously dragging Prince into another lawsuit regarding his music & the one company he openly supported is dumb. It looks terrible, and nobody wins.

I don't think there is any doubt that the estate will win against Tidal. Tidal have already started removing things. But you seem unaware of things like the "Rally for Peace", "Baltimore", "Oui Can Luv", "Stare" - Prince didn't put his catalog on there and walk away. He kept adding.

Thank you. No, I have no idea really what he put on there. I don't use Tidal and have no trust nor love for JayZ so it's never gonna happen either. It seems that no one is really sure about what the "agreement" entailed, but I guess the family/estate thinks it's gone beyond that.

Lovejunky said:

Mumio said:

Just a quick question: I thought I'd seen that the agreement with Tidal was for a 90 day period for specific music. Didn't Tidal stream for that time frame, but then went beyond what was included in the agreement with Prince (as far as we know) by streaming other music from his catalogue? I'm confused as to what the family "undid" that Prince wanted? I have not been following this thread closely so I hope someone can clarify for me?

As I understand it...The agreement was that Tidal could have it EXCLUSIVELY for 90 Days...After that Prince would have the option to move it to other additional platforms if he desired...

I could have it wrong...but this makes sense to me, since Prince liked to remain fluid and unbound by strict contractual agreements...He worked with his GUT instincts a lot and thus often changed direction frequently....

I'd thought something very much like what you said here too.

mjscarousal said:

Noodled24 said:

Tidal HAD Prince's permission. He died and now the family are trying to undo what Prince did. FACT.

They're so quick to take things down without offering any alternative. THAT is what leads to piracy.

You also have no evidence Tidal wasn't paying the estate. If the estate is planning to have Prince's catalog streaming on other services, good luck to them. I'm sure they'll make literally hundreds of dollars.

NO, the family wants to preserve and protect Prince legacy and they have a RIGHT to do that. Its GOOD they are looking into TIDAL's activity in handling Prince music and there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the way it has been handled ESPECIALLY if TIDAL has been doing shady things. TIDAL has multiple lawsuits from other artists that they have not paid and TIDAL was streaming Prince songs that were not in the agreement for them to stream.

1) The family is not in control as far at this lawsuit goes. Beamer is the administrator and they have a duty as ordered by the court to monitize the estate. Breamer cannot continue to do business with Tidal if money is due. At some point their will an accounting and all debts are going to be due to the estate. Tidal will have to pay up if they owe the estate as the estate is being watched by the court so no penny is going to go uncollected.

2) The family must agree on any financial deals that are put in place and may have wanted to stay with Tidal but cannot if money is owed. At this point I would imagine they should be upset that content has stayed on Tiday since June 7 with no action being taken. A zillinon e-mails should not have gone out a lawsuit should have been filed months ago.

3) The big question is how did Tidal get the files put up on June 7? Did Prince give them the files prior to his death and Tidal just put them up without paying? Did somone at NPG publishing authorize the files be put out after P's death and/or send the files? Where is the money? What account was it sent to? Does anyone really believe Prince would send files without payment? If verbal and or written agreements were made that only allow exclusivity for 90 days why does Breamer just go ahead and put material on other platforms while they file their suits against Tidal?

4) No one cares about other suits against Tidal. Tidal knows that the Prince estate is not some no name rapper or indie band. The estate is actually being managed and they would have known the massive copyright infringement lawsuit that would be coming if they did something shady. I cannot imagine any business risky federal charges and possible punitive damages.

I really think someone working for NPG publishing did something shady or Breamer is just to incompetent to manage the estate since they allowed this to go on for so long.

Noodled24 said:

mjscarousal said:

NO, the family wants to preserve and protect Prince legacy and they have a RIGHT to do that. Its GOOD they are looking into TIDAL's activity in handling Prince music and there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the way it has been handled ESPECIALLY if TIDAL has been doing shady things. TIDAL has multiple lawsuits from other artists that they have not paid and TIDAL was streaming Prince songs that were not in the agreement for them to stream.

The family does have the right... but obviously undoing what Prince did, doesn't look good. It also means portions of his catalog are (once again) only available via piracy.

No, this isn't on the family. It's on JayZ and Tidal. From what I've read, they haven't even paid Prince or the Estate for HitNRun2 and that is the only album he gave them. Tidal didn't have permission to stream everything else of Prince's. So they need to pay up. If Tidal is right, why haven't they produced any paperwork that the lawyers and such have asked for?

PennyPurple said:

Noodled24 said:

The family does have the right... but obviously undoing what Prince did, doesn't look good. It also means portions of his catalog are (once again) only available via piracy.

No, this isn't on the family. It's on JayZ and Tidal. From what I've read, they haven't even paid Prince or the Estate for HitNRun2 and that is the only album he gave them. Tidal didn't have permission to stream everything else of Prince's. So they need to pay up. If Tidal is right, why haven't they produced any paperwork that the lawyers and such have asked for?

Be serious. Prince took cash up front. If the estate can't find it Prince probably spent it. This is the guy who rented a multi million dollar home, added a hair salon, then gave the NBA star owner an exta million to cover the cost of restoring the home to it's previous condition.

Prince did a lot on Tidal, including two live streams. Do a search for "Purple pick of the week".

Noodled24 said:

PennyPurple said:

No, this isn't on the family. It's on JayZ and Tidal. From what I've read, they haven't even paid Prince or the Estate for HitNRun2 and that is the only album he gave them. Tidal didn't have permission to stream everything else of Prince's. So they need to pay up. If Tidal is right, why haven't they produced any paperwork that the lawyers and such have asked for?

Be serious. Prince took cash up front. If the estate can't find it Prince probably spent it. This is the guy who rented a multi million dollar home, added a hair salon, then gave the NBA star owner an exta million to cover the cost of restoring the home to it's previous condition.

Prince did a lot on Tidal, including two live streams. Do a search for "Purple pick of the week".

If he got paid cash upfront, where's Tidal's paperwork? They haven't produced any documentation as of yet.

PennyPurple said:

Noodled24 said:

Be serious. Prince took cash up front. If the estate can't find it Prince probably spent it. This is the guy who rented a multi million dollar home, added a hair salon, then gave the NBA star owner an exta million to cover the cost of restoring the home to it's previous condition.

Prince did a lot on Tidal, including two live streams. Do a search for "Purple pick of the week".

If he got paid cash upfront, where's Tidal's paperwork? They haven't produced any documentation as of yet.

I don't know what to think. Maybe he gave them a break since Tidal was up and comming company.

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

NO, the family wants to preserve and protect Prince legacy and they have a RIGHT to do that. Its GOOD they are looking into TIDAL's activity in handling Prince music and there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the way it has been handled ESPECIALLY if TIDAL has been doing shady things. TIDAL has multiple lawsuits from other artists that they have not paid and TIDAL was streaming Prince songs that were not in the agreement for them to stream.

1) The family is not in control as far at this lawsuit goes. Beamer is the administrator and they have a duty as ordered by the court to monitize the estate. Breamer cannot continue to do business with Tidal if money is due. At some point their will an accounting and all debts are going to be due to the estate. Tidal will have to pay up if they owe the estate as the estate is being watched by the court so no penny is going to go uncollected.

2) The family must agree on any financial deals that are put in place and may have wanted to stay with Tidal but cannot if money is owed. At this point I would imagine they should be upset that content has stayed on Tiday since June 7 with no action being taken. A zillinon e-mails should not have gone out a lawsuit should have been filed months ago.

3) The big question is how did Tidal get the files put up on June 7? Did Prince give them the files prior to his death and Tidal just put them up without paying? Did somone at NPG publishing authorize the files be put out after P's death and/or send the files? Where is the money? What account was it sent to? Does anyone really believe Prince would send files without payment? If verbal and or written agreements were made that only allow exclusivity for 90 days why does Breamer just go ahead and put material on other platforms while they file their suits against Tidal?

4) No one cares about other suits against Tidal. Tidal knows that the Prince estate is not some no name rapper or indie band. The estate is actually being managed and they would have known the massive copyright infringement lawsuit that would be coming if they did something shady. I cannot imagine any business risky federal charges and possible punitive damages.

I really think someone working for NPG publishing did something shady or Breamer is just to incompetent to manage the estate since they allowed this to go on for so long.

.

Your point on #4 I am in total agreement with. I think either NPG did something shady, because there is no way that Prince would ever put music out there without getting paid. He was adamant about that! Or, Bremer screwed-up and they fell behind the 8 ball!!

Noodled24 said:

PennyPurple said:

No, this isn't on the family. It's on JayZ and Tidal. From what I've read, they haven't even paid Prince or the Estate for HitNRun2 and that is the only album he gave them. Tidal didn't have permission to stream everything else of Prince's. So they need to pay up. If Tidal is right, why haven't they produced any paperwork that the lawyers and such have asked for?

Be serious. Prince took cash up front. If the estate can't find it Prince probably spent it. This is the guy who rented a multi million dollar home, added a hair salon, then gave the NBA star owner an exta million to cover the cost of restoring the home to it's previous condition.

Prince did a lot on Tidal, including two live streams. Do a search for "Purple pick of the week".

Finally someone gets it LOL...

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

NO, the family wants to preserve and protect Prince legacy and they have a RIGHT to do that. Its GOOD they are looking into TIDAL's activity in handling Prince music and there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the way it has been handled ESPECIALLY if TIDAL has been doing shady things. TIDAL has multiple lawsuits from other artists that they have not paid and TIDAL was streaming Prince songs that were not in the agreement for them to stream.

1) The family is not in control as far at this lawsuit goes. Beamer is the administrator and they have a duty as ordered by the court to monitize the estate. Breamer cannot continue to do business with Tidal if money is due. At some point their will an accounting and all debts are going to be due to the estate. Tidal will have to pay up if they owe the estate as the estate is being watched by the court so no penny is going to go uncollected.

2) The family must agree on any financial deals that are put in place and may have wanted to stay with Tidal but cannot if money is owed. At this point I would imagine they should be upset that content has stayed on Tiday since June 7 with no action being taken. A zillinon e-mails should not have gone out a lawsuit should have been filed months ago.

3) The big question is how did Tidal get the files put up on June 7? Did Prince give them the files prior to his death and Tidal just put them up without paying? Did somone at NPG publishing authorize the files be put out after P's death and/or send the files? Where is the money? What account was it sent to? Does anyone really believe Prince would send files without payment? If verbal and or written agreements were made that only allow exclusivity for 90 days why does Breamer just go ahead and put material on other platforms while they file their suits against Tidal?

4) No one cares about other suits against Tidal. Tidal knows that the Prince estate is not some no name rapper or indie band. The estate is actually being managed and they would have known the massive copyright infringement lawsuit that would be coming if they did something shady. I cannot imagine any business risky federal charges and possible punitive damages.

I really think someone working for NPG publishing did something shady or Breamer is just to incompetent to manage the estate since they allowed this to go on for so long.

1) Thanks for info

2) Or maybe the family does not want to stay with TIDAL, we don't know that.

3) I believe TIDAL had access to the files and probably was only authorize to put them up only when Prince gave the OK to do so but TIDAL took advantage of Prince death and placed them up on TIDAL without the permission of the Estate. Why does it seem far fetch that Prince would give them access to his files, if he feels he can trust Jay Z and TIDAL? Prince was betrayed.

4) I care about other lawsuits because it supports the point that TIDAL are shady and cannot be trusted if they have screwed over other artists as well.

Noodled24 said:

mjscarousal said:

NO, the family wants to preserve and protect Prince legacy and they have a RIGHT to do that. Its GOOD they are looking into TIDAL's activity in handling Prince music and there is NOTHING wrong with questioning the way it has been handled ESPECIALLY if TIDAL has been doing shady things. TIDAL has multiple lawsuits from other artists that they have not paid and TIDAL was streaming Prince songs that were not in the agreement for them to stream.

The family does have the right... but obviously undoing what Prince did, doesn't look good. It also means portions of his catalog are (once again) only available via piracy.

They are not "undoing" anything. Prince was not paid by TIDAL and if the family has other reasons to believe that TIDAL is not operating in the best interest of Prince, why should they continue to collaborate with them?

mjscarousal said:

1) Thanks for info

2) Or maybe the family does not want to stay with TIDAL, we don't know that.

3) I believe TIDAL had access to the files and probably was only authorize to put them up only when Prince gave the OK to do so but TIDAL took advantage of Prince death and placed them up on TIDAL without the permission of the Estate. Why does it seem far fetch that Prince would give them access to his files, if he feels he can trust Jay Z and TIDAL? Prince was betrayed.

4) I care about other lawsuits because it supports the point that TIDAL are shady and cannot be trusted if they have screwed over other artists as well.

Because Prince didn't like leaks.

That's why it seems far fetched that Prince would give Tidal things to sit on... When he could have his assistant e-mail songs he wanted out.

mjscarousal said:

Noodled24 said:

The family does have the right... but obviously undoing what Prince did, doesn't look good. It also means portions of his catalog are (once again) only available via piracy.

They are not "undoing" anything. Prince was not paid by TIDAL and if the family has other reasons to believe that TIDAL is not operating in the best interest of Prince, why should they continue to collaborate with them?

.

^^^^

mjscarousal said:

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

They are not "undoing" anything. Prince was not paid by TIDAL and if the family has other reasons to believe that TIDAL is not operating in the best interest of Prince, why should they continue to collaborate with them?

-You really believe he gave them files without getting money of front?

...then why does Tidal seem unable to come up with proof of payment or any tangible contract?

There is no dispute there was a 90 day contract between P and Tidal (Roc Nation) for HitNRun.

Obviously, P and JayZ talked after that date because we know other P music was added after 90 days.

Roc Nation in their filings with the Estate talk about "course of dealing" between P and Roc Nation.

I am assuming the course of dealing was verbal agreements between P and JayZ because the Estate issued a subpeona to Roc Nation for documentation and they did not respond.

I think the Estate is saying 'too bad, so sad" you didnt have a written contract after 90 days, and for you to release his catalogue on P's birthday is copyright infringement.

jtfolden said:

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said: -You really believe he gave them files without getting money of front?

...then why does Tidal seem unable to come up with proof of payment or any tangible contract?

1. Because Tidal now knows they will not even be dealing with Breamer in a few weeks.

2. Maybe they paid the money and Breamer just cannot find it.

3. Maybe it was a cash transaction.Which Tidal would definitly not want to make know voluntarity.

4. One of the things that Prince wanted was upfront money. I doubt he would make a deal to get 750k upfront and not get it before sending the files. Also if there is no contract how does Breamer even know about the 90 days and the amount of money that is due?

Something wack is going on with the deal as if Bremer had a case for copyright infringement why is most of the music still on the site. Ninety days has passed for all of the remaining music. Why can't Bremaer get it all off. The have know issued a subpoena and a court order. The hearing for Roc Nation's claim was on the 8th. Material is still up on the Tidal site.

You really want TIDAL to happen!

jtfolden said:

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said: -You really believe he gave them files without getting money of front?

...then why does Tidal seem unable to come up with proof of payment or any tangible contract?

THIS.

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

They are not "undoing" anything. Prince was not paid by TIDAL and if the family has other reasons to believe that TIDAL is not operating in the best interest of Prince, why should they continue to collaborate with them?

-You really believe he gave them files without getting money up front? This was one of his sticking points with the industry. I also wonder about putting that stuff on his birthday. [Edited 12/11/16 16:00pm]

Why not? Especially if Prince feels he can trust Jay Z and TIDAL. I think you giving TIDAL to much benefit of the doubt.

mjscarousal said:

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said: -You really believe he gave them files without getting money up front? This was one of his sticking points with the industry. I also wonder about putting that stuff on his birthday. [Edited 12/11/16 16:00pm]

Why not? Especially if Prince feels he can trust Jay Z and TIDAL. I think you giving TIDAL to much benefit of the doubt.

.

I agree; maybe Prince did not get the money up-front, although that would be silly, but it's quite possible that he trusted JayZ. We just don't know!