laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

-- The probate hearing is tommorow. I would suggest that everyone go to Tidal store and get what you don't have because if Jay-Z does not produce agreements and proof of payment some of the material on Tidal will be unavailable for a while.

Based on the article, I honestly don't think Jay Z has any proof. I saw your past comments and I never got a chance to respond but I just saw them but I hope now this article answered your question. I believe Jay Z was streaming Prince music without his permission which is why he was not getting paid and this is also why some songs/albums are available while others are not.

[Edited 12/7/16 12:53pm]

mjscarousal said:

I responded to another thread but it was a dupe so I am copying and pasting my responce here toward this article but FUQ Jay Z seriously, he is only have money!

I see what TIDAL and Jay Z are trying to do but its not going to work. It doesn't matter what was DISCUSSED, if Prince did not sign an agreement that says in writing with his signature that Jay Z has the right to stream his music than he has no case. Just because Prince had a conversation with him doesn't mean that he intended for Jay Z to have full access to his music. It sounds to me that Jay Z feels entitled to stream Prince music/access to his music just because Prince confined in him, but Prince talked about music with all his colleagues and associates and that certaintly is no indicater that he wanted Jay Z to have rights to his music or to have full control over how it is streamed. If it aint in WRITING, he can go home with that b.s!

Prince did entire tours where there were no signed contracts. Those tours happened. I'm somewhat sympathetic to Tidal in this one, who knows what Jay Z and Prince talked about. Prince was working with them right up to the end.

I just hope whoever ends up with the tracks is someone who will respect the art

[Edited 12/7/16 12:52pm]

jaawwnn said:

mjscarousal said:

I responded to another thread but it was a dupe so I am copying and pasting my responce here toward this article but FUQ Jay Z seriously, he is only have money!

I see what TIDAL and Jay Z are trying to do but its not going to work. It doesn't matter what was DISCUSSED, if Prince did not sign an agreement that says in writing with his signature that Jay Z has the right to stream his music than he has no case. Just because Prince had a conversation with him doesn't mean that he intended for Jay Z to have full access to his music. It sounds to me that Jay Z feels entitled to stream Prince music/access to his music just because Prince confined in him, but Prince talked about music with all his colleagues and associates and that certaintly is no indicater that he wanted Jay Z to have rights to his music or to have full control over how it is streamed. If it aint in WRITING, he can go home with that b.s!

Prince did entire tour's where there were no signed contracts. Those tours happened.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to Tidal in this one, who knows what Jay Z and Prince talked about. I just hope whoever ends up with the tracks is someone who will respect the art

I understand that.....HOWEVER, no one who truly respects an artist would be trying to capitalizing off of the death of them by streaming their music without their permission and not paying their Estate. That is shady and taking complete advantage of someone.

mjscarousal said:

jaawwnn said:

Prince did entire tour's where there were no signed contracts. Those tours happened.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to Tidal in this one, who knows what Jay Z and Prince talked about. I just hope whoever ends up with the tracks is someone who will respect the art

I understand that.....HOWEVER, no one who truly respects an artist would be trying to capitalizing off of the death of them by streaming their music without their permission and not paying their Estate. That is shady and taking complete advantage of someone.

They're just following Prince's long established tradition of not paying their bills until the last second, if anything this is a point in their favour, shows they've been paying attention

I don't care who wins this fight, they're all the music business and will cut each others throats for a profit, i just want them to get on with it so we can have a clear winner and get on with reissues and unreleased stuff coming out.

[Edited 12/7/16 12:59pm]

jaawwnn said:

mjscarousal said:

I understand that.....HOWEVER, no one who truly respects an artist would be trying to capitalizing off of the death of them by streaming their music without their permission and not paying their Estate. That is shady and taking complete advantage of someone.

They're just following Prince's long established tradition of not paying their bills until the last second, if anything this is a point in their favour, shows they've been paying attention

I don't care who wins this fight, they're all the music business and will cut each others throats for a profit, i just want them to get on with it so we can have a clear winner and get on with reissues and unreleased stuff coming out.

[Edited 12/7/16 12:59pm]

Well.... so what This is different and Prince deseves better. Who ever is running his music should have HIS interest and not their own

Well IMO you should care who will be in control of Prince music and how his music legacy will be presented moving forward.

mjscarousal said:

I responded to another thread but it was a dupe so I am copying and pasting my responce here toward this article but FUQ Jay Z seriously, he is only have money!

I see what TIDAL and Jay Z are trying to do but its not going to work. It doesn't matter what was DISCUSSED, if Prince did not sign an agreement that says in writing with his signature that Jay Z has the right to stream his music than he has no case. Just because Prince had a conversation with him doesn't mean that he intended for Jay Z to have full access to his music. It sounds to me that Jay Z feels entitled to stream Prince music/access to his music just because Prince confined in him, but Prince talked about music with all his colleagues and associates and that certaintly is no indicater that he wanted Jay Z to have rights to his music or to have full control over how it is streamed. If it aint in WRITING, he can go home with that b.s!

.

You said it!!

.

If they don't have documents to support their claims, then the Judge will have the final say.

.

Is JayZ above the law? smdh

.

The fact that ROC/Tidal has not responded to the courts requests only makes them look bad, imo.

.

I can see you are steamed-up about this as much as I am.

.

If there is one thing that I can't stand is liars, and greedy vultures who think they deserve something that clearly is not THEIRS!

mjscarousal said:

jaawwnn said:

Prince did entire tour's where there were no signed contracts. Those tours happened.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to Tidal in this one, who knows what Jay Z and Prince talked about. I just hope whoever ends up with the tracks is someone who will respect the art

I understand that.....HOWEVER, no one who truly respects an artist would be trying to capitalizing off of the death of them by streaming their music without their permission and not paying their Estate. That is shady and taking complete advantage of someone.

.

^^

jaawwnn said:

mjscarousal said:

UPDATE:

.

In the Estate thread, "ISaidLife" just announced that Bremer has resigned as administrator of Prince's estate??!! WTF is going on???!! Is this true? I can't find anything about it.

.

I have no words right now!! No words!!

.

Something bad is going down.

.

[Edited 12/7/16 14:57pm]

cloveringold85 said:

mjscarousal said:

I responded to another thread but it was a dupe so I am copying and pasting my responce here toward this article but FUQ Jay Z seriously, he is only have money!

I see what TIDAL and Jay Z are trying to do but its not going to work. It doesn't matter what was DISCUSSED, if Prince did not sign an agreement that says in writing with his signature that Jay Z has the right to stream his music than he has no case. Just because Prince had a conversation with him doesn't mean that he intended for Jay Z to have full access to his music. It sounds to me that Jay Z feels entitled to stream Prince music/access to his music just because Prince confined in him, but Prince talked about music with all his colleagues and associates and that certaintly is no indicater that he wanted Jay Z to have rights to his music or to have full control over how it is streamed. If it aint in WRITING, he can go home with that b.s!

.

You said it!!

.

If they don't have documents to support their claims, then the Judge will have the final say.

.

Is JayZ above the law? smdh

.

The fact that ROC/Tidal has not responded to the courts requests only makes them look bad, imo.

.

I can see you are steamed-up about this as much as I am.

.

If there is one thing that I can't stand is liars, and greedy vultures who think they deserve something that clearly is not THEIRS!

Hell yea I care! I am tired of seeing my Black legends and icons screwed over it and Prince def deserves better than this mess!

Jay Z needs to sit his ass down some where, if it aint in writing, he has NO case!

http://www.startribune.co...405317636/

Thanks for the link!

.

So, it appears Tyka filed....

.

In a petition filed Tuesday in Carver County District Court, Prince’s sister Tyka Nelson asked for either Fiduciary Trust Company International or Comerica Bank & Trust N.A. to replace Bremer Trust, which has served as special administrator since shortly after Prince’s death.

.

I see they were only a "temporary" fix:

.

“As you know, Bremer Trust informed the Court months ago ... that Bremer Trust was not interested in continuing as Special Administrator after its current term expires,” the letter said. “That remains Bremer Trust’s position.”

.

Okay, well, this is interesting.

[Edited 12/7/16 16:20pm]

mjscarousal said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

You said it!!

.

If they don't have documents to support their claims, then the Judge will have the final say.

.

Is JayZ above the law? smdh

.

The fact that ROC/Tidal has not responded to the courts requests only makes them look bad, imo.

.

I can see you are steamed-up about this as much as I am.

.

If there is one thing that I can't stand is liars, and greedy vultures who think they deserve something that clearly is not THEIRS!

Hell yea I care! I am tired of seeing my Black legends and icons screwed over it and Prince def deserves better than this mess!

Jay Z needs to sit his ass down some where, if it aint in writing, he has NO case!

.

^^^^

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

Based on the article, I honestly don't think Jay Z has any proof. I saw your past comments and I never got a chance to respond but I just saw them but I hope now this article answered your question. I believe Jay Z was streaming Prince music without his permission which is why he was not getting paid and this is also why some songs/albums are available while others are not.

[Edited 12/7/16 12:53pm]

-- How was streaming his music without permission when Prince was alive and well. Prince sent those live clips from the Piano and Mike show? Breamer is saying they only have permission for Phase 2. What about the single songs and videos? How did that material get up on Tidal? Tidal is saying they have an equity term agreement. Makes me think some portion of the agreement is in writing for an equity stake in Tidal and some portions are verbal. If Jay-z can show I gave Equity in Tidal for exchange for content an exchange has taken place therefore a contract is in place. No matter what Tidal will have to explain themselves with some show of an exhange taken place. We will see soon.

According to the article, songs were streamed soon after Prince died that TIDAL did not have a right to stream. From the article it sounds like the agreement was verbal and nothing was made in writing. He has to prove his case via writing or signature otherwise it is a "he said she said" scenario and that is not going to fly in court without concrete proof.

mjscarousal said:

cloveringold85 said:

laurarichardson said:

mjscarousal said:

According to the article, songs were streamed soon after Prince died that TIDAL did not have a right to stream. From the article it sounds like the agreement was verbal and nothing was made in writing. He has to prove his case via writing or signature otherwise it is a "he said she said" scenario and that is not going to fly in court without concrete proof.

-- You are reading an article not the claim that RocNation filed in court. They are saying they have a Equity Term Agreement and verbal agreement. All they need to do is bring the equity term agreement and the verbal can be a valid contract if you show an exchange was made. Keep in mind I am not pro Tidal I am just stating that they filed a claim so that must have something in order to get the merchandise. That may not have turned it over to Breamer because they may have felt it is proprietary information or they could be stalling it does not matter they have to bring documentation for their claim to be valid.

This is what it all boils down too. That was the point I was making.

laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:

They're just following Prince's long established tradition of not paying their bills until the last second, if anything this is a point in their favour, shows they've been paying attention

I don't care who wins this fight, they're all the music business and will cut each others throats for a profit, i just want them to get on with it so we can have a clear winner and get on with reissues and unreleased stuff coming out.

[Edited 12/7/16 12:59pm]

-- You are speaking of finacial problems Prince had over 20 years ago after WB cut the funds off. I don't recall any issues since and if you look in the court file he only has one finacial claim from unpaid invoice and right now it looks like the court may disallowe it. I am not sure why you don't care if his estate is being ripped off kind of seems like that attuitude is no different then Tidal/Jay-Z.

No, I was talking about the many, many times things like this or this happened.

I was mostly joking though.

As for his estate, I care to the level it affects the music coming out. I'll judge it by what we're given, not by their returns on investments. I recognise there can be a correlation between them but it's not 1:1. Like I said, I hope they get it all sorted out soon but i'm not pushed on which businessman wins.

[Edited 12/7/16 23:19pm]

jaawwnn said:

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

Thanks for the link!

.

So, it appears Tyka filed....

.

In a petition filed Tuesday in Carver County District Court, Prince’s sister Tyka Nelson asked for either Fiduciary Trust Company International or Comerica Bank & Trust N.A. to replace Bremer Trust, which has served as special administrator since shortly after Prince’s death.

.

I see they were only a "temporary" fix:

.

“As you know, Bremer Trust informed the Court months ago ... that Bremer Trust was not interested in continuing as Special Administrator after its current term expires,” the letter said. “That remains Bremer Trust’s position.”

.

Okay, well, this is interesting.

[Edited 12/7/16 16:20pm]

- Okay Well Breamer does not want to do it anymore so that could be why Tidal did not turn over any docs.

.

Yes, that seems like the most likely reason.

laurarichardson said:

jaawwnn said:

No, I was talking about the many, many times things like this or this happened.

I was mostly joking though.

As for his estate, I care to the level it affects the music coming out. I'll judge it by what we're given, not by their returns on investments. I recognise there can be a correlation between them but it's not 1:1. Like I said, I hope they get it all sorted out soon but i'm not pushed on which businessman wins.

[Edited 12/7/16 23:19pm]

-- The fans getting the vault material to actually or listen is effected by the businessmen who will control the distrubution.

I recognise there can be a correlation between them but it's not 1:1

coldasice said:

cloveringold85 said:

UPDATE:

.

In the Estate thread, "ISaidLife" just announced that Bremer has resigned as administrator of Prince's estate??!! WTF is going on???!! Is this true? I can't find anything about it.

.

I have no words right now!! No words!!

.

Something bad is going down.

.

This troubles me too....

The People who handled him for years are bowing out ?

They must be very disgruntled about something/someone !!!!!!

Lovejunky said:

This troubles me too....

The People who handled him for years are bowing out ?

They must be very disgruntled about something/someone !!!!!!

It's all in the court documents...they didn't want to stay beyond the original appointment. I don't consider it to be a bad thing, just that there's difficulty coming to agreement on the best course of action for the estate. That's to be expected imo, and again, not necessarily a bad thing to have another company go in at this point.

mjscarousal said:

jaawwnn said:

Prince did entire tour's where there were no signed contracts. Those tours happened.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to Tidal in this one, who knows what Jay Z and Prince talked about. I just hope whoever ends up with the tracks is someone who will respect the art

I understand that.....HOWEVER, no one who truly respects an artist would be trying to capitalizing off of the death of them by streaming their music without their permission and not paying their Estate. That is shady and taking complete advantage of someone.

Tidal HAD Prince's permission. He died and now the family are trying to undo what Prince did. FACT.

They're so quick to take things down without offering any alternative. THAT is what leads to piracy.

You also have no evidence Tidal wasn't paying the estate. If the estate is planning to have Prince's catalog streaming on other services, good luck to them. I'm sure they'll make literally hundreds of dollars.

Noodled24 said:

Lovejunky said:

cloveringold85 said:

UPDATE:

.

In the Estate thread, "ISaidLife" just announced that Bremer has resigned as administrator of Prince's estate??!! WTF is going on???!! Is this true? I can't find anything about it.

.

I have no words right now!! No words!!

.

Something bad is going down.

.

This troubles me too....

The People who handled him for years are bowing out ?

They must be very disgruntled about something/someone !!!!!!

.

Maybe they feel they are in over their head with this and/or they can't make any headway with Prince's siblings?

.