I think that the thread so far has mainly been confined to the most superficial form of androgyny, which is appearance. Prince definitely conveyed that for much of his early carreer. The term in psychology circles is used in a deeper way, as meaning people who have some personity traits and interests that are mausculine and feminine, respectively, and in approximately equal amounts. For Prince, the lyrics in his songs often conveyed his androgyny to me, especially his love songs. How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore actually is a more female sex-role stance (though thankfully most of those rigid sex roles have been broken by both genders). He also dispalyed a certain vulnerability in his heartbreak songs and loneliness songs that are typically more comfortable for females to express. And of course could any of the metal glam boys really write If I was Your Girlfriend. Nevertheless, he certainly throughout his career also displayed typically masculine traits in his charisma, his competitiveness, and so forth. So with Prince, his looks, his writing, his stance about women had both feminine and masculine aspects. I think androgynous in the deepest meaning fits him, but not the metal glam boys of the 80s.

Sorry to upset your black and white, either/or world but Prince had a somewhat androgenous appearance sometimes and sometimes he did not. It had to do with clothing and makeup. Same with David Bowie.

tomcooper2323 said:

Sorry to upset your black and white, either/or world but Prince had a somewhat androgenous appearance sometimes and sometimes he did not. It had to do with clothing and makeup. Same with David Bowie.

That's just what androgynous is! It is about being equally at home with all of the range of the masculine - feminine continuum, not rigidly adhering to one or the other all the time. I would add that it also means you don't always look androgynous at any given moment. That's Prince. It doesn't necessarily mean anything about gender identity in terms of transexuality or sexual orientation. He was neither gay nor trans by most if not all accounts. HE just didin't like to be confined by sex roles no more than he liked to be confined by any other norms.

LBrent said:

Wow. Ok. There's so much in what you've written...

Firstly, P was very androgynous.

Frankly, he was pretty. Add makeup and articles of clothing that, until he had enough resources to have his wadrobe custom made, was directly from the ladies department, and his singing voice being falsetto...Um. Yeah.

The public, especially non-fans, often confused that androgyny with gender. P was quite masculine, to the point of being quite chauvinistic in his world veiw. But...that wasn't what made him heterosexual. There are as many "macho" men who are NOT androgynous, yet are homosexual.

It can be difficult to articulate sometimes because each piece seems to contradict the other.

I mean...If a man wears long permed hair, wears makeup, is pretty, wears heels, wears lace, strikes certain poses and sings in a high voice...For some people that alone would make him gay. The fact that homosexuality is defined by a sexual preference for the same gender is lost on those people.

P has never "read" as gay to me and I have very long and strong ties in the LBGTQ community and very acute "gaydar".

Take Wendy and Lisa...Wendy, even in a dress, reads as very "dykey" to me. Lisa, also a lesbian, also reads as gay to me, but is more feminine. Same book, different page.

P, for all his androgynous outer accoutrements, was a very masculine heterosexual man.

[Edited 11/14/16 22:45pm]

I don't think Wendy and Lisa look gay right off the bat. What makes you think that ? my gaydar is not so good.

Never thought Prince nor Michael was gay.

@LBrent - Condolences to you and your peeps.

Re: the Oprah interview, hey, this just in...rock star lies to press . Happens all of the time and P was certainly known to fuck w/ 'em, too. But I just don't see it in this instance. In watching the interview, I thought he was being sincere. It came across as a touching moment, actually. I didn't catch any jokes-on-you type vibes.

I think his willingness to play with gender roles and expectations is a good part of what makes him sexy to me (among probably a million other things). And the way he made it work! How many men/women could do the things he did and dress the way he did and have such a following of admirers?!

And tbh, when I look at him I sure as hell don't think androgyny; all I see is beautiful, confident, sexy, and megatalented man who isn't afraid to be a little cray sometimes (as per his expression in this pic lol)

[Edited 11/15/16 20:30pm]

paisleyparkgirl said:

paisleyparkgirl said:

LBrent said:

Take Wendy and Lisa...Wendy, even in a dress, reads as very "dykey" to me. Lisa, also a lesbian, also reads as gay to me, but is more feminine. Same book, different page.

P, for all his androgynous outer accoutrements, was a very masculine heterosexual man.

[Edited 11/14/16 22:45pm]

I don't think Wendy and Lisa look gay right off the bat. What makes you think that ? my gaydar is not so good.

Never thought Prince nor Michael was gay.

I'm hoping that I can articulate this well...

It's not that either of them "looks gay" or not to me, it's something else entirely.

I've met gals, for instance, who played softball, wore flannel shirts, no makeup, construction boots, drank beer, watched sports, loped when they walked, bit their nails...Stereotypical lesbians, right? but they were hetero, VERY. But they never "read" as gay to me and I didn't understand people not seeing they were hetero cuz they clearly were.

I also know quite a few gals who are so damned "girly" that when people meet their girlfriends/wives they're sooo confused that they're left speechless...Yet, most of them I had already gotten that they were gay.

Same with W&L. I adore them and "read" them both way before it was common knowledgr that they were a couple. I can't explain how cuz I'm not even sure how myself.

LRCdancer88 said:

I think his willingness to play with gender roles and expectations is a good part of what makes him sexy to me (among probably a million other things). And the way he made it work! How many men/women could do the things he did and dress the way he did and have such a following of admirers?!

I think his willingness to embrace the feminine aspects of his personality, and to express that in the way he dressed, is definitely one of the reasons he was so sexy...both in itself, and because it takes a metric fuckton of confidence to do that as a straight man. Men often think that expressing their feminine aspects (they all have them, all human beings have feminine and masculine aspects) will compromise their masculinity. Prince is the textbook example of that being nonsense.

Exactly!!! He just oozes confidence and it's hard to think of something sexier in a man.

jayseajay said:

LRCdancer88 said:

I think his willingness to play with gender roles and expectations is a good part of what makes him sexy to me (among probably a million other things). And the way he made it work! How many men/women could do the things he did and dress the way he did and have such a following of admirers?!

I think his willingness to embrace the feminine aspects of his personality, and to express that in the way he dressed, is definitely one of the reasons he was so sexy...both in itself, and because it takes a metric fuckton of confidence to do that as a straight man. Men often think that expressing their feminine aspects (they all have them, all human beings have feminine and masculine aspects) will compromise their masculinity. Prince is the textbook example of that being nonsense.

rogifan said:

Seems to me Prince is/was whatever anyone wants him to be. I don't care about labels. I was a big fan of hair metal in the 80s (a bit embarrassed by that now). Would these guys be considered androgynous? Anyway to me it seemed more like an act, more like a stage presence than anything else. And all these guys in hair metal bands with the teased hair and makeup were humping every female groupie they could get their hands on.

.

It's pretty comical, isn't it? I mean, here you have a heavy rock/metal band, and they are dressed like women. Ahhh, yes it was the 80s!! That was acceptable back then, LOL

Prince was just amazing!! He gained the attention of both men and women! He was just born sexy! He had gone where no one had ever gone before....he wasn't afraid to express his feminine side. I never thought of him as overly feminine; he had just the right balance of femininity and masculinity!! He knew what turned a woman on. He was very seductive... Okay, nuff said, LOL

.

[Edited 11/16/16 16:38pm]

PliablyPurple said:

@LBrent - Condolences to you and your peeps.

Re: the Oprah interview, hey, this just in...rock star lies to press . Happens all of the time and P was certainly known to fuck w/ 'em, too. But I just don't see it in this instance. In watching the interview, I thought he was being sincere. It came across as a touching moment, actually. I didn't catch any jokes-on-you type vibes.

Thank you

MD431Madcat said:

That damned sexy hipchain. In the sexuality thread we've noticed he's been wearing them as far back as at least Dirty Mind.