CAL3 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

N.E.W.S is by no means noodling. It's Prince's Kind of Blue, a master work and his best 'jazz' album.

.

One person's meat is another person's poison.

.

I do not believe N.E.W.S. (or any other pseudo-jazz album by Prince) should ever be favorably compared to 'Kind of Blue.'

Well I've listened to both a few hundred times and they're comparable. Allmusic only gave it 2/5, so clearly they didn't get it either. Music taste can only be deemed entirely subjective if people don't dig every genre. Most people don't get jazz because it's beyond their comprehension. Also fair to say, all improvisation could be termed noodling, and by that definition jazz too.

fortuneandserendipity said:

CAL3 said:

.

One person's meat is another person's poison.

.

I do not believe N.E.W.S. (or any other pseudo-jazz album by Prince) should ever be favorably compared to 'Kind of Blue.'

Well I've listened to both a few hundred times and they're comparable. Allmusic only gave it 2/5, so clearly they didn't get it either. Music taste can only be deemed entirely subjective if people don't dig every genre. Most people don't get jazz because it's beyond their comprehension. Also fair to say, all improvisation could be termed noodling, and by that definition jazz too.

.

It just kills me how often people - when someone doesn't like something they do - resort to the ol' "they just didn't get it" non-argument.

.

Not sure if you're suggesting the AllMusic reviewer doesn't "get" jazz, or I don't, or whoever doesn't... BUT... and I hate to get into potential snobbery here... I would argue that the listener with an appreciation for actual jazz (i.e. "Kind of Blue") would have little patience for something as lightweight as 'NEWS.'

.

There is a reason, after all, that it was nominated for a Grammy for Best Instrumental POP Performance rather than jazz. Whether it deserved the nomination is beside the point, the Grammy nominating committee recognized that 'NEWS' doesn't qualify as jazz by any stretch.

.

And that's not to say it's "bad." There's a lot of worthwhile so-called "smooth jazz" out there. And Prince's instrumental records are pleasant to listen to along those lines.

.

all improvisation could be termed noodling, and by that definition jazz too

.

Yes, those ignorant to the finer points of the genre might define jazz as "noodling." However, I used the term "noodling" deliberately when applied to 'NEWS.'

.

You are absolutely right about the subjectivity of music tastes and you're entitled to your opinion. That said, I find it wildly implausiable that a fan of true jazz would place the aimless jamming of Prince and his band on the level of giants like Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Cannonball, Bill Evans. If that's what you're doing. It sounds as if you're equating the two.

.

Outside of the Prince hardcore, there's virtually no interest in 'NEWS.' You can't tell me that's simply because the rest of the world just doesn't "get it."

CAL3 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Well I've listened to both a few hundred times and they're comparable. Allmusic only gave it 2/5, so clearly they didn't get it either. Music taste can only be deemed entirely subjective if people don't dig every genre. Most people don't get jazz because it's beyond their comprehension. Also fair to say, all improvisation could be termed noodling, and by that definition jazz too.

.

It just kills me how often people - when someone doesn't like something they do - resort to the ol' "they just didn't get it" non-argument.

.

Not sure if you're suggesting the AllMusic reviewer doesn't "get" jazz, or I don't, or whoever doesn't... BUT... and I hate to get into potential snobbery here... I would argue that the listener with an appreciation for actual jazz (i.e. "Kind of Blue") would have little patience for something as lightweight as 'NEWS.'

.

There is a reason, after all, that it was nominated for a Grammy for Best Instrumental POP Performance rather than jazz. Whether it deserved the nomination is beside the point, the Grammy nominating committee recognized that 'NEWS' doesn't qualify as jazz by any stretch.

.

And that's not to say it's "bad." There's a lot of worthwhile so-called "smooth jazz" out there. And Prince's instrumental records are pleasant to listen to along those lines.

.

all improvisation could be termed noodling, and by that definition jazz too

.

Yes, those ignorant to the finer points of the genre might define jazz as "noodling." However, I used the term "noodling" deliberately when applied to 'NEWS.'

.

You are absolutely right about the subjectivity of music tastes and you're entitled to your opinion. That said, I find it wildly implausiable that a fan of true jazz would place the aimless jamming of Prince and his band on the level of giants like Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Cannonball, Bill Evans. If that's what you're doing. It sounds as if you're equating the two.

.

Outside of the Prince hardcore, there's virtually no interest in 'NEWS.' You can't tell me that's simply because the rest of the world just doesn't "get it."

The don't get argument is valid to me. I don't get a lot of the be bop music by miles and coltrane that people rave over, I really don't. I don't, I go by my emotions, if something moves me, i really don't care what style it comes from. Lots of jazz musicians just seem to me to just be trying to show off how well they can play an instrument, and they are very successful in that but if it doesn't move me it doesn't move me. They can be every bit as pretentious as classical musicians, there is lots of classical music that is purely boring.

^

if i'm not enjoying the groove regardless of the genre ..

I'm Out!

[Edited 11/11/16 16:27pm]

ya, and on the other hand, i don't dismiss people who rave over some of that stuff but I honestly wonder sometimes if they are just acting like they like it to fit into their clique. Ray Charles wrote in his book, of course he didn't name any names but he was talking about the state of jazz where there are a million meaningless notes a minute that really had no point, he spoke of it negatively.

rogifan said:

[Edited 11/12/16 12:57pm]

[Edited 11/12/16 13:02pm]

[Edited 11/12/16 13:03pm]

[Edited 11/12/16 13:06pm]

[Edited 11/12/16 13:07pm]

precioux said:

https://www.washingtonpos...tarist/Ok, Clapton never said that, but here's th above link from the Washington Post of an interview with Billy,lead from ZZ Top that gives unreal props to P!!!!! It made me proud precioux said:No joke, Eric Clapton was asked "So, what's it's like being the greatest guitar player?" His response..."You're talking to the wrong person, go ask Prince!"

[Edited 11/12/16 12:57pm]

[Edited 11/12/16 13:02pm]

[Edited 11/12/16 13:03pm]

[Edited 11/12/16 13:06pm]

[Edited 11/12/16 13:07pm]

ya, i saw that and that is one of the better tributes. as i've said, i don't really know much about what to listen to on guitar so it's good to hear another pro give P some real props. I think it's obvious Prince was great on guitar, the question was how great in an area where there are just so many.

PeteSilas said:

CAL3 said:

.

It just kills me how often people - when someone doesn't like something they do - resort to the ol' "they just didn't get it" non-argument.

.

Not sure if you're suggesting the AllMusic reviewer doesn't "get" jazz, or I don't, or whoever doesn't... BUT... and I hate to get into potential snobbery here... I would argue that the listener with an appreciation for actual jazz (i.e. "Kind of Blue") would have little patience for something as lightweight as 'NEWS.'

.

There is a reason, after all, that it was nominated for a Grammy for Best Instrumental POP Performance rather than jazz. Whether it deserved the nomination is beside the point, the Grammy nominating committee recognized that 'NEWS' doesn't qualify as jazz by any stretch.

.

And that's not to say it's "bad." There's a lot of worthwhile so-called "smooth jazz" out there. And Prince's instrumental records are pleasant to listen to along those lines.

.

all improvisation could be termed noodling, and by that definition jazz too

.

Yes, those ignorant to the finer points of the genre might define jazz as "noodling." However, I used the term "noodling" deliberately when applied to 'NEWS.'

.

You are absolutely right about the subjectivity of music tastes and you're entitled to your opinion. That said, I find it wildly implausiable that a fan of true jazz would place the aimless jamming of Prince and his band on the level of giants like Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Cannonball, Bill Evans. If that's what you're doing. It sounds as if you're equating the two.

.

Outside of the Prince hardcore, there's virtually no interest in 'NEWS.' You can't tell me that's simply because the rest of the world just doesn't "get it."

The don't get argument is valid to me. I don't get a lot of the be bop music by miles and coltrane that people rave over, I really don't. I don't, I go by my emotions, if something moves me, i really don't care what style it comes from. Lots of jazz musicians just seem to me to just be trying to show off how well they can play an instrument, and they are very successful in that but if it doesn't move me it doesn't move me. They can be every bit as pretentious as classical musicians, there is lots of classical music that is purely boring.

.

I see what you're saying, but to me there's a distinction - you're saying 'don't get' certain types of music if it doesn't move you. I fee the same way. If I don't like it, I have no problem saying to someone who does like it "I just don't really get it."

.

To me, that's different then liking something and saying to someone else who doesn't like it "oh, you just don't get it." It's more of a way to write off another person's opinion.

rogifan said:

I found this video of Prince and Josh on piano. I'm sure it's been shared here before but not sure if it was the entire video. I know this is just one video but from it I get the sense Josh was technically a better player but there's something about Prince's playing that draws me in. Josh sounds like a typical George Winston influenced new age pianist. https://www.facebook.com/...267601147/

That's one hell of a find... Scotty mentions on the latest DrFunk podcast, there are very few shots of Prince actually playing piano, it's great to see his hands in action like that.

Josh is a talented guy, I'm not sure why people have touble believing it. He plays great in that clip. It's no slight on P. Josh didn't write Adore.

Noodled24 said:

rogifan said:

Noodled24 said:

That's one hell of a find... Scotty mentions on the latest DrFunk podcast, there are very few shots of Prince actually playing piano, it's great to see his hands in action like that.

Josh is a talented guy, I'm not sure why people have touble believing it. He plays great in that clip. It's no slight on P. Josh didn't write Adore.

Yeah I hope NPG doesn't take it down. They did when it was on YouTube.

Does anyone know the name of the piece that Josh is playing?

Thanks!

fortuneandserendipity said:

Mindflux said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

There used to be a youtube video with Prince playing piano, taking over from Joshua Welton. As good as Prince played right there, Joshua was doing runs with his left hand whereas P was sticking to chords.

Just seen the video and that's not the case at all! Do you play yourself? It would appear not. The first thing Prince does is a 2-handed downward cascade and then rips in to stuff that is way more technical and complex than anything Josh was doing. (Not downplaying Josh - what he did was fine, but you're making out that Prince can barely play). Go back and listen the the piano segment on Livesxy - particularly the second half of it where he starts with an incredible, fast, 2-handed arpeggio before going in to the comical, almost classical march and then Strange Relationship. And, no, its not the greatest piano playing you will ever hear, but it's amongst the best piano playing you'll hear from a pop artist and is still up there as "better than most".

I watched enough times, and Josh was doing more complex playing with the 'accompaniment' hand. In the same instance Josh's playing was more melodic, whereas P was doing more key change and chord change stuff.

I've seen the lovesexy live stuff and it is impressive. But I've also heard and dug the great classical masters and there's also the jazz guy art tatum.

CAL3 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Well I've listened to both a few hundred times and they're comparable. Allmusic only gave it 2/5, so clearly they didn't get it either. Music taste can only be deemed entirely subjective if people don't dig every genre. Most people don't get jazz because it's beyond their comprehension. Also fair to say, all improvisation could be termed noodling, and by that definition jazz too.

.

It just kills me how often people - when someone doesn't like something they do - resort to the ol' "they just didn't get it" non-argument.

.

Not sure if you're suggesting the AllMusic reviewer doesn't "get" jazz, or I don't, or whoever doesn't... BUT... and I hate to get into potential snobbery here... I would argue that the listener with an appreciation for actual jazz (i.e. "Kind of Blue") would have little patience for something as lightweight as 'NEWS.'

.

There is a reason, after all, that it was nominated for a Grammy for Best Instrumental POP Performance rather than jazz. Whether it deserved the nomination is beside the point, the Grammy nominating committee recognized that 'NEWS' doesn't qualify as jazz by any stretch.

.

And that's not to say it's "bad." There's a lot of worthwhile so-called "smooth jazz" out there. And Prince's instrumental records are pleasant to listen to along those lines.

.

all improvisation could be termed noodling, and by that definition jazz too

.

Yes, those ignorant to the finer points of the genre might define jazz as "noodling." However, I used the term "noodling" deliberately when applied to 'NEWS.'

.

You are absolutely right about the subjectivity of music tastes and you're entitled to your opinion. That said, I find it wildly implausiable that a fan of true jazz would place the aimless jamming of Prince and his band on the level of giants like Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Cannonball, Bill Evans. If that's what you're doing. It sounds as if you're equating the two.

.

Outside of the Prince hardcore, there's virtually no interest in 'NEWS.' You can't tell me that's simply because the rest of the world just doesn't "get it."

Just about everything in NEWS is syncopated. And the music is constantly shifting with little repetition. I would say it's more jazz than pop. The grammys are an annoying mainstream awards where you're never quite sure who voted for whom and on what basis. Look at how many honours kanye west and jay z've been accredited over likes of Prince, Lennon, Dylan, Zappa, Bowie. Virtually the whole world never heard NEWS and it was effectively a limited edition CD anyway.