Prince's music doesn't need selling! It's already owned and administered by NPG Publishing.

.

All NPG Publishing need to do is to licence tracks to whoever asks, ie, Moonbeam Levels to Warners.

.

For example, even I could release a Prince album if NPG Publishing licensed the tracks to me and of course if the price was right!

.

darkroman said:

Prince's music doesn't need selling! It's already owned and administered by NPG Publishing.

.

All NPG Publishing need to do is to licence tracks to whoever asks, ie, Moonbeam Levels to Warners.

.

For example, even I could release a Prince album if NPG Publishing licensed the tracks to me and of course if the price was right!

.

Darkroman,Does this mean prince music could or will become commercialized?Like john lennon's imagine in a sleepys commercial?State farm,apple bee's,intel and so on and so on.Back in the 70's 80's and 90's when rock stars did this they caught hell.But,now you hear these songs on every other commercial.

.

[Edited 10/28/16 13:47pm]

destinyc1 said:

Noodled24 said:

mjscarousal said:

First off, Ima need you to sit down because ANOTHER poster was the one that brought up the friendship issue NOT me.
When nothing else works, lets just bash Michael Jackson. Do you Prince stans ever get tired of it?? Why even bring this up? What value does this have to this discussion?

Perhaps it wasn't you, but you repeatedly made reference to it as if being best-buds had some kind of effect on their business dealings.

You really need to read all the way through a discussion before jumping in and making outlandish claims. I am not obsessing over anything. I was responding to a poster who said boldly that Prince was friends with Jay Z and Beyonce which is FALSE. They also said we should trust Jay Z LOL funniest thing I have read all week.

... and another paragraph about friendship... again nothing to back any of it up, and Topped off with a bit of Jay-Z bashing, which you accused me of doing to MJ because I stated the fact he stabbed his friend Paul McCartney in the back.

[Edited 10/28/16 8:18am]

Since YOU are obsessed with wanting to talk about Michael Jackson, what is it about Michael Jackson that you want to talk about?

So if this thread gets derailed we can all thank you for it since you want to talk off topic?

I posted my receipts, Prince has never refered to Beyonce or Jay Z as friends, EVER. So where are you receipts since you think they were best friends?

destinyc1 said:

darkroman said:

Prince's music doesn't need selling! It's already owned and administered by NPG Publishing.

.

All NPG Publishing need to do is to licence tracks to whoever asks, ie, Moonbeam Levels to Warners.

.

For example, even I could release a Prince album if NPG Publishing licensed the tracks to me and of course if the price was right!

.

Darkroman,Does this mean prince music could or will become commercialized?Like john lennon's imagine in a sleepys commercial?State farm,apple bee's,intel and so on and so on.Back in the 70's 80's and 90's when rock stars did this they caught hell.But,now you hear these songs on every other commercial.

Prince music would always be commercialized if Prince allowed it. He always denied the licence in the past, whether for artistic or financial reasons or both. I'd be surprised, shocked even, if his family sold the rights rather than the licence to Jay-Z being that Prince spent 25 odd years getting the publishing back himself.

As for the licence, still waiting for someone to explain what makes Jay-Z any more evil than anyone else.

I just read/skimmed through this thread. @ some of the hysteria here!

Maybe the estate is soliciting offers for the streaming rights as a way to help determine the value of the unreleased music for tax purposes? They may be seriously considering streaming as a way to release stuff from the vault...but the number is important too:

"...Unfortunately, that last part—estimating Prince’s future value—is as tricky as it is important. One of the peculiarities of the estate tax is a requirement to estimate how much revenue the claimant’s estate is likely to generate after his or her death, and pay taxes on it immediately, before the money has been earned. The amount is theoretical, but the cash needed to pay it is not."

http://tcbmag.com/Industr...incely-Sum

Because it gets quite technical to look into it, the detail of Prince's setup before and after April 21 is rarely summed up because those in a position to will talk technicals and most will go 'Whaaa?' and then react to some clickbait shite instead.

But, I believe I'm in the area of being succinct when I say:

1. MUSIC, MASTERS AND RIGHTS AT NPG. Not 'willable' because it's all wrapped up in whatever policy and other documents are in place at NPG (effectively a fiercely independent and imaginatively radical publishing company, conceived, organised and belonging to Prince that's been around for about 23 years). Everything that is Prince's intellectual property (not owned or entitled to by others like WB) is held there and to be put out or not according to whatever he, The Boss, said.
Therefore Maurice wasn't autonomously negotitating anything with Jay Z unless he was sent to hand over a memory stick of tracks that are to be coming out under existing agreements with Tidal that Prince/NPG set up. Maybe that memory stick was in his pocket beside the purple hankerchief but more likely he called in for a donut (Jay Z and Maurice likes Donuts, see). It is possible that people visit each other for, like, 'passing by' reasons...INCREDIBLY

2. NO WILL IS NO PROBLEMO
Essentially he had one sibling, his sis, to 'benefact' and she's in charge of whatever stuff he left behind that isn't intellectual property (which is at NPG). In effect she will sign for things as Prince if it isn't already somebody else's job. She will also decide whether to give Second Cousin Bobby's dog a bone. Or not.
Accordingly, at a recent meeting with the frothing entitled, she told them to STFU and walked out to concentrate on which hairdresser is gonna touch up her roots. Which is exactly what Prince would do. All good.
He didn't bother with a will because lawyers are boring and on the day of that 'Make Your Will' appointment he fancied riding his bike instead.


Did I leave anything out? Didn't think so.

[Edited 10/29/16 1:39am]

XSX said:

Because it gets quite technical to look into it, the detail of Prince's setup before and after April 21 is rarely summed up because those in a position to will talk technicals and most will go 'Whaaa?' and then react to some clickbait shite instead.

But, I believe I'm in the area of being right when I say:

MUSIC, MASTERS AND RIGHTS AT NPG. Not 'willable' because it's all wrapped up in whatever policy and other documents are in place at NPG (effectively a fiercely independent and imaginatively radical publishing company, conceived, organised and belonging to Prince that's been around for about 23 years).
Therefore Maurice wasn't negotitating anything with Jay Z unless he was sent to hand over a memory stick of tracks that are to be coming out. Maybe that was in his pocket but more likely he called in for a donut (Jay Z and Maurice likes Donuts, see)

NO WILL IS NO PROBLEMO
He had one sis and she's in charge of whatever stuff he left behind that isn't intellectual property (which is at NPG). In effect she will sign for things as Prince if it isn't already somebody else's job.


Did I leave anything out? Didn't think so.

.

Totally agree!

.

I do find it odd that people forget NPG Music Publishing is an incorporated business and is governed by a legal framework and not by individual will such as Jay-Z.

.

Anyone interested in the subject needs to review Pet Shop Boys as a case study. For 30 years they have owned their masters and publishing. They license their music to labels and in recent years set up their own independent label.

.

They work with label service Kobalt. Kobalt Music Group. KLS provides record label services to artists, receiving a share of revenues, while allowing artists to retain ownership of their master recordings.

.

For insight into how the music business works, read these two links:

www.kobaltmusic.com/page-services-label-services.php#

www.kobaltmusic.com/page-services-music-publishing.php#

.

Prince should have spoken to Neil Tenant and Chris Lowe for proper business advice!

.

destinyc1 said:

darkroman said:

Prince's music doesn't need selling! It's already owned and administered by NPG Publishing.

.

All NPG Publishing need to do is to licence tracks to whoever asks, ie, Moonbeam Levels to Warners.

.

For example, even I could release a Prince album if NPG Publishing licensed the tracks to me and of course if the price was right!

.

Darkroman,Does this mean prince music could or will become commercialized?Like john lennon's imagine in a sleepys commercial?State farm,apple bee's,intel and so on and so on.Back in the 70's 80's and 90's when rock stars did this they caught hell.But,now you hear these songs on every other commercial.

.

The decision is in the hands of NPG Music Publishing.

.

They can say yes or no to requests. Remember years ago when Prince sang, " we could slam all covers" - but he didn't.

.

We need to remember though that NPG Music Publishing is a business, if they don't make money they won't be able to manage the catalogue and it will have to be sold off.

.

So Prince4Ever helps keep the business running, Purple Rain Deluxe will help keep the business running. Requests for mechanical and sync rights will keep the business running - yes, this does mean use in commercials and feature films.

.

It's essential people understand the difference, so read this:

.

http://www.bmi.com/faq/entry/what_is_the_difference_between_performing_right_royalties_mechanical_r

.

So what is the importance of NPG Music Publishing?

.

Mechanical royalties and synchronization fees are paid by record companies and film and TV producers directly to the copyright owner, usually the publisher!!!!!!!

.

Now you know...!

.

darkroman said:

Prince should have spoken to Neil Tenant and Chris Lowe for proper business advice!

.

Well said although Neil Tennant did have the advantage of having worked in Comics and the Music Biz as an editor and journalist, which gives one hell of an education in how things are set up and who's beefing about what when it ain't. This made him able to enter the idustry as an artist very well informed about what way to set things up.
Most artists, Prince included, don't know when they get their first lawyer that lawyers act only on instructions. You have to give them the instructions or they'll tell you to go with a template they know. Although Prince instructed about 'creative control' at the outset and got what he wanted, he hadn't instructed on ownership (masters etc) and, even in 1992, with his '$100m deal' wasn't instructing on that topic either. Unfortunately he was interested in beating the headline figures of Madonna and others on their new deals.
He WAS in a spot where he could have instructed for ownership before extending with WB but, once he suspected he'd given WB the chance to promote his work in a way which would exclude the benefits of the deal (hence his very pissed off reaction to the Symbol album's poor promotion and apparent sales dearth compared to its predecessor Diamonds and Pearls, a sales dearth that had more than a whiff about of CONtract about it), he belatedly realised he was 'Just Another Sucka'.
Not that he was gonna take it. (The rest is history)

But yeah...shoulda hung with Neil and Chris back in the eighties in London instead of Mica Paris.

[Edited 10/29/16 1:46am]

darkroman said:

destinyc1 said:

Darkroman,Does this mean prince music could or will become commercialized?Like john lennon's imagine in a sleepys commercial?State farm,apple bee's,intel and so on and so on.Back in the 70's 80's and 90's when rock stars did this they caught hell.But,now you hear these songs on every other commercial.

.

The decision is in the hands of NPG Music Publishing.

.

They can say yes or no to requests. Remember years ago when Prince sang, " we could slam all covers" - but he didn't.

.

We need to remember though that NPG Music Publishing is a business, if they don't make money they won't be able to manage the catalogue and it will have to be sold off.

.

So Prince4Ever helps keep the business running, Purple Rain Deluxe will help keep the business running. Requests for mechanical and sync rights will keep the business running - yes, this does mean use in commercials and feature films.

.

It's essential people understand the difference, so read this:

.

http://www.bmi.com/faq/entry/what_is_the_difference_between_performing_right_royalties_mechanical_r

.

So what is the importance of NPG Music Publishing?

.

Mechanical royalties and synchronization fees are paid by record companies and film and TV producers directly to the copyright owner, usually the publisher!!!!!!!

.

Now you know...!

.

Generally agree but it was 'we could slam all comers'
Also, NPG is a privately-owned concern and doesn't have to make money other than to pay its bills.
Since Prince's work is earning while he sleeps (sic), I think it's operating fine before it does a thing.
There will have been rules and leeways as to P's intentions on licensing (which we must assume had much of a 'don't bother' about it) and it's going to be IDEAS which win the day as in the case of Apple Corps Ltd, The Beatles' version of NPG. There, ideas come in and the four principals have to unanimously vote for them or nothing happens other than continued royalties income.
Given that Apple has managed to ...erm..manage this situation where you have McCartney and Yoko Ono, whose relationship remains 'patchy', as two of the people that need to agree, I think that NPG's future output is likely to be driven bythe influx of TOP ideas that are just too good not to go 'Hellz to the Yessy' to. Where they will come from is actually the world's concern but anybody with a goodun should find out how to get in touch instead of posting on the Org.
TOP TIP

[Edited 10/29/16 1:32am]

XSX said:

But yeah...shoulda hung with Neil and Chris back in the eighties in London instead of Mica Paris.

[Edited 10/29/16 1:19am]

.

That would have been really cool indeed. I wonder how they could have collaborated; with Prince's funk and PSB's vast intellectualism!

.

I once walked past Neil on Wardour Street in Soho London! I wish I'd said hello!.

.

darkroman said:

XSX said:

But yeah...shoulda hung with Neil and Chris back in the eighties in London instead of Mica Paris.

[Edited 10/29/16 1:19am]

.

That would have been really cool indeed. I wonder how they could have collaborated; with Prince's funk and PSB's vast intellectualism!

.

I once walked past Neil on Wardour Street in Soho London! I wish I'd said hello!.

.

Well the thing is that Neil Tennant was still writing for music papers when Prince hit and he experienced the Purple One when he was at his most untouchable and uninterviewable.

Here's something Neil wrote about the 1985 Brit Awards.
He was well into his own career by the time Prince became 'reachable' on his various aftershow and partying around London.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/feb/13/rocks-backpages-neil-tennant

Could somebody clarify this for me...?

The way Im seeing this from hanging with this thread ..and doing some additional research:

QUOTE from Prince himself after the agreement with tidal was sealed:

After one meeting, it was obvious that Jay Z and the team he has assembled at Tidal recognize and applaud the effort that real musicians put in2 their craft 2 achieve the very best they can at this pivotal time in the music industry. Secondly, Tidal have honored Us with a non-restrictive arrangement that once again allows Us to continue making art in the fashion We’ve grown accustomed 2 and We’re Extremely grateful 4 their generous support. And lastly, in the tech-savvy, real-time world We all live in 2day, everything is faster. From its conception and that one & only meeting, HITNRUN took about 90 days 2 prepare its release. If that’s what freedom feels like, HITNRUN is what it sounds like.

and recently..JayZ rapped these lyrics

“Prince left his masters where they safe and sound/We never gonna let the elevator take him down.”

What Im getting is that the aforementioned OFFER for unreleased rights would be in addition to whatever pre existing royalty agreement was in place already between P and Jayz ??

It would make sense that Tyka eventually would have to meet Jayz..What they actually discussed we dont really know becasue TMZ etc...

But I would assume JayZ would have been..Ok...Lets keep this moving forwards..

Im sure making money factors into it..of course JAyz Is a Businessman...

But dont you all think that If Jayz Did secure rights to unreleased Music that he would be making dam sure that Princes Music gets right out there and after all..

Is THAT NOT the most important thing ?

People are going to make money..thats for sure...TYka and her siblings will be well taken care of..thats also definate...

Personal opinions about JayZ ( who none of us REALLY KNOW) aside..I do believe that he has a lot of respect for Prince..

How could one NOT...?

He was the Musicians musician and everyone I KNEW it...

As I see it, This is no room for emotion any more..THis is business....Prince wanted his music out there..and he was ready for it to be licensed,..He DID set up a PUBLISHING Company after all...

So...What is so wrong with Streaming on TIDAL ?

Im not getting it

If you hate JZ for whatever reason fine but from a Business perspective, why not allow a man who is clearly clever shrwed and forward thinking to take the helm ?

Even if his modus operandi IS only to make money...

The More he gets behind Princes Music the more money he makes sure...

but also the MORE princes Music gets OUT ...

Bracing myself for the shoot down...Im ready...

darkroman said:

darkroman said:

darkroman said:

mjscarousal said:

Noodled24 said:

... and another paragraph about friendship... again nothing to back any of it up, and Topped off with a bit of Jay-Z bashing, which you accused me of doing to MJ because I stated the fact he stabbed his friend Paul McCartney in the back.

[Edited 10/28/16 8:18am]

Since YOU are obsessed with wanting to talk about Michael Jackson, what is it about Michael Jackson that you want to talk about?

So if this thread gets derailed we can all thank you for it since you want to talk off topic?

Says the guy posting pictures.

I posted my receipts, Prince has never refered to Beyonce or Jay Z as friends, EVER. So where are you receipts since you think they were best friends?

I never said they were friends.

jaypotton said:

XSX said:

Because it gets quite technical to look into it, the detail of Prince's setup before and after April 21 is rarely summed up because those in a position to will talk technicals and most will go 'Whaaa?' and then react to some clickbait shite instead.

But, I believe I'm in the area of being succinct when I say:

1. MUSIC, MASTERS AND RIGHTS AT NPG. Not 'willable' because it's all wrapped up in whatever policy and other documents are in place at NPG (effectively a fiercely independent and imaginatively radical publishing company, conceived, organised and belonging to Prince that's been around for about 23 years). Everything that is Prince's intellectual property (not owned or entitled to by others like WB) is held there and to be put out or not according to whatever he, The Boss, said.
Therefore Maurice wasn't autonomously negotitating anything with Jay Z unless he was sent to hand over a memory stick of tracks that are to be coming out under existing agreements with Tidal that Prince/NPG set up. Maybe that memory stick was in his pocket beside the purple hankerchief but more likely he called in for a donut (Jay Z and Maurice likes Donuts, see). It is possible that people visit each other for, like, 'passing by' reasons...INCREDIBLY

It seems highly unlikely they would fly from MPLS to New York to drop by the offices of a billionaire they've never met. For reasons not related to Prince.

It seems more likely Jay-Z was romancing T&M in an attempt to curry favor with them down the line.

Doesn't NPG only have the songs Prince registered? (the catalog) Many of the songs in the vault never were. Which is why there are songs fans don't even know the titles of.

Jay-Z already has an exclusive streaming deal regarding Prince's catalog in place, and I'd imagine it'll stay in place for the duration which P agreed with J.

Noodled24 said:

jaypotton said:

I believe NPG Music Publishing has ALL the songs Prince ever wrote. While there are unknown songs (we think...obviously as Unknown) Prince did register vast numbers of songs that have never been released. It is this registration combined with studio session records and engineer interviews that allowed people like Pers Nielsen to compile the amazing vault books.

I know that for a long time fans were able to lookup what songs Prince had registered. However by the late 90s early 00's didn't he stop registering as much?

It's been said NPGPublishing took ownership of the catalog. But I I'm not sure about the vault.

*When I say vault I mean the Paisley Vault(s). I think Dave H in the latest Funkenberry podcast says that WBR also had a vault. Presumably this would contain songs and albums Prince submitted to them, but that were never released.

[Edited 10/29/16 7:25am]

Noodled24 said:

Noodled24 said:

jaypotton said:

I believe NPG Music Publishing has ALL the songs Prince ever wrote. While there are unknown songs (we think...obviously as Unknown) Prince did register vast numbers of songs that have never been released. It is this registration combined with studio session records and engineer interviews that allowed people like Pers Nielsen to compile the amazing vault books.

I know that for a long time fans were able to lookup what songs Prince had registered. However by the late 90s early 00's didn't he stop registering as much?

It's been said NPGPublishing took ownership of the catalog. But I I'm not sure about the vault.

*When I say vault I mean the Paisley Vault(s). I think Dave H in the latest Funkenberry podcast says that WBR also had a vault. Presumably this would contain songs and albums Prince submitted to them, but that were never released.

[Edited 10/29/16 7:25am]

This is right.....an old insider ( a trusted person on HQ) well known for his sources....has confirmed that Extended unreleased versions of ADORE & THE BALLAD of DP for example are stocked in WB VAULT amongst other unreleased material & Albums since the 80's!!

love2thenines2003 said:

Noodled24 said:

I know that for a long time fans were able to lookup what songs Prince had registered. However by the late 90s early 00's didn't he stop registering as much?

It's been said NPGPublishing took ownership of the catalog. But I I'm not sure about the vault.

*When I say vault I mean the Paisley Vault(s). I think Dave H in the latest Funkenberry podcast says that WBR also had a vault. Presumably this would contain songs and albums Prince submitted to them, but that were never released.

[Edited 10/29/16 7:25am]

This is right.....an old insider ( a trusted person on HQ) well known for his sources....has confirmed that Extended unreleased versions of ADORE & THE BALLAD of DP for example are stocked in WB VAULT amongst other unreleased material & Albums since the 80's!!

Although, didn't the lads from the Peach & Black podcast say that P never turned in the FULL version of Adore to WBR?

laurarichardson said:

Noodled24 said:

I know that for a long time fans were able to lookup what songs Prince had registered. However by the late 90s early 00's didn't he stop registering as much?

It's been said NPGPublishing took ownership of the catalog. But I I'm not sure about the vault.

*When I say vault I mean the Paisley Vault(s). I think Dave H in the latest Funkenberry podcast says that WBR also had a vault. Presumably this would contain songs and albums Prince submitted to them, but that were never released.

[Edited 10/29/16 7:25am]

--Why would he stop registering songs as he was still releasing new music for over 20 years after leaving Warner Brothers? One of his assistants said that was a part of her job.

IIRC there was a time when he registered a lot of unreleased material with ASCAP. I think this is why some songs are known to exist but have never been leaked. (or weren't at the time).

Again, IIRC there came a point when Prince stopped registering everything with ASCAP, and opted only to register songs he released.

love2thenines2003 said:

Noodled24 said:

I know that for a long time fans were able to lookup what songs Prince had registered. However by the late 90s early 00's didn't he stop registering as much?

It's been said NPGPublishing took ownership of the catalog. But I I'm not sure about the vault.

*When I say vault I mean the Paisley Vault(s). I think Dave H in the latest Funkenberry podcast says that WBR also had a vault. Presumably this would contain songs and albums Prince submitted to them, but that were never released.

[Edited 10/29/16 7:25am]

This is right.....an old insider ( a trusted person on HQ) well known for his sources....has confirmed that Extended unreleased versions of ADORE & THE BALLAD of DP for example are stocked in WB VAULT amongst other unreleased material & Albums since the 80's!!

yet another reason for WB to have him offed

Noodled24 said:

laurarichardson said:

Noodled24 said:

IIRC there was a time when he registered a lot of unreleased material with ASCAP. I think this is why some songs are known to exist but have never been leaked. (or weren't at the time).

Again, IIRC there came a point when Prince stopped registering everything with ASCAP, and opted only to register songs he released.

-- How do you know that? Why put a song in the Vault and not register it? I can belive he turned songs into WB that they have in their vault but those registered. as well

Fans used to search ASCAP records for songwriting credits. In registering the songs he had to divulge song titles. http://prince.org/msg/7/415450 though I'm sure this wasn't the first time he'd done this.