I am weary of just releasing scraps of music from the vault. I am sure there is brilliance in there, but unless his estate is choosy about what they release, they could do more harm than good. After all, if you never read the Great Gatsby but only read Fitzgerald's half-ass notes in his desk, you might not think he was much of a writer.

The live work is what will cement him as a legend for a long time to come--in the way that live work from the great jazz musicians did.

That's where it is at.

[Edited 10/14/16 22:54pm]

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.

.

OR!

.

I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!

purplerabbithole said:

No. Live is great, but its retrospective and a facsimile.

The gems I want are from his school. His studio. Where some things worked, and some things didn't.

Imagine a massive, sprawling release of the rehearsals, the soundchecks, the one-off gigs, the tours and the aftershows. Imagine having a pristine recording of every unique song he played live. Imagine having a comprehensive online resource of every concert in soundboard quality that could be arranged by date, by venue, by band members, by song or by tour.

His live world has incredible potential to be - and I hate to say it as it should all be just about the music, but here I go - monetized. The question is, how many people have the knowledge of his live performances, outside of hardcore fans and bootleggers, who will ever get access to the vault? Perhaps QuestLove for the pre-nineties. Perhaps Scott Baldwin for post. Perhaps.

I think we'll have to be satisfied with the bootleg releases for years, maybe forever. There's already an incredible amount of material circulating, much of it in superb quality. But a properly curated selection of his live content marketed to the general public would only enhance his reputation as arguably the finest live performer we've ever had the privilege to witness.

SquirrelMeat said:

My post did mention that they would need to be choosy. I don't doubt there is brilliance in there. It might be like what Susan rogers stated...that 30% of it is brilliant, but we have only heard about 10% of that 30%.. So yes, of course, a couple great albums are certainly a possibility. But if they release 100% of it willy nilly, than that is a problem.

lust said:

You don't think even one great album could be pieced together from vault tracks? We've already got more than enough circulating bootleg tracks that are adored and could easily make a few albums in my opinion.

There is a lot of live stuff on youtube that is in pretty good shape. there is also some pretty amauterish footage as well. If you do a compilation of live Montreax concerts, live tv performances, the Rave performance, and then find cleaner footage of the Piano and Microphone tour you could get probably 20+ hours of footage. Even live footage from the 1999, Purple rain, Musicology, and 2011 tour that is a tad grainy (not from a crappy cell phone) would be good as well. There is a ton of stuff on youtube that could be packaged and I imagine Prince did record his live work to analyse it and discuss it. The footage might not be stylistically edited but it would certainly be better than some schmuck with a cell phone.

26ten said:

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.

.

OR!

.

I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!

[Edited 10/14/16 15:15pm]

purplerabbithole said:

26ten said:

laurarichardson said:

26ten said:

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.

.

OR!

.

I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!

-- He did record every show. They had a whole screening room full of footage at Paisley Park.

Then what I thought was wishful thinking sounds like a total possibility. Why do I ever doubt Prince? I feel so foolish haha

Yeah yer right No will was a to us.

laurarichardson said:

26ten said:

There isn't much live material availble to be honest - it's a damn shame. Been hogging youtube for some time though and it helps a bit. Still - I want them to drop some sort of 20 disc + live career collection.

.

OR!

.

I wish Prince had been like Fugazi and recorded almost every show he ever played and offered it for charge on his site. Wouldn't that be glorious?!!

-- He did record every show. They had a whole screening room full of footage at Paisley Park.

He used to. He didn't end up recording every show.

Hi all,

I agree that there is likely to be some extraordinary live material in the vault, but I also want to hear as much of the studio work as I can as well. I suppose that it depends upon your expectations and where you find interest in Prince’s music. Personally, I’ve always been less interested in perfectly crafted, radio friendly pop songs than I am in Prince’s more experimental side. I agree, some of the most brilliant music he ever manifested was in a live context (I’ve been listening to the 8^th of March 1982 show a great deal recently – it’s superb). But again, as someone who makes music especially, I’d be equally interested in the “failed” studio experiments, the stuff that even Prince felt was too strange and exploratory to release (assuming that it exists – like everyone else, I can’t help but bring my own preoccupations and hopes into my considerations regarding the vault).

I’m probably not in the minority here on the org, but obviously much of this stuff isn’t going to have broad commercial appeal. The question is how should the custodians approach his body of work? Is it to be polished, sanitised and meted out in commercially viable chunks (God forbid that third parties should attempt to “finish” the material)? Personally, I think that it would be deeply misguided to simply cream off the most viable hits and compile a series of posthumous albums aimed at the lowest common denominator. Prince was an artist of the highest calibre, especially during those first 10 years. While the more esoteric material in the vault may not appeal to the average consumer, I can’t help but believe that it will be of interest to musicians and creative communities going forward.

I’ve been following many of these discussions regarding the vault, and in a recent thread a fellow member mentioned that every posthumous release he’d heard had been a disappointment. I immediately thought of an exception, namely the wonderful Miles Davis box-sets (“The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions”, “The Complete In A Silent Way” etc). This is the kind of approach I’d like to see taken toward Prince’s work – compilations that are carefully compiled to highlight Prince’s creative development, drawing from whatever sources are deemed most illuminating or impressive (studio work, rehearsals, discarded experiments etc), almost academic in its approach. Not that I think that this is very likely…

[Edited 10/14/16 18:43pm]

The live material is unreleased vault material. That recordsing haven't been released and where do you think they were stored?

.

I guess you are saying the unreleased songs, vs unreleased live recordings. But basically agree with you there and no doubt, many more highlights and amazing moments in the concert and soundcheck and rehearsal tapes than the outtakes from albums.

Point taken.

tomcooper2323 said:

The live material is unreleased vault material. That recordsing haven't been released and where do you think they were stored?

.

I guess you are saying the unreleased songs, vs unreleased live recordings. But basically agree with you there and no doubt, many more highlights and amazing moments in the concert and soundcheck and rehearsal tapes than the outtakes from albums.

Don't assume that I wouldn't be interested in the experimental and strange music. i am actually talking about lazy attempts at pop that he threw together quickly and rightfully didn't release. Not everything in that vault is artsy and interesting I imagine. The supposedly unreleased stuff that was briefly on youtube but is now gone was a mixed bag..some really interesting stuff, some solid pop music, and some downright bad music that sounds like Prince knock-offs. Some of the limited release stuff was far from experimental but corny as hell. IMO. Recently, I ran into some of the limited release stuff from One Night Alone and some of it I really loved.

I would love to hear the stuff he did with Miles Davis.

fen said:

Hi all,

I agree that there is likely to be some extraordinary live material in the vault, but I also want to hear as much of the studio work as I can as well. I suppose that it depends upon your expectations and where you find interest in Prince’s music. Personally, I’ve always been less interested in perfectly crafted, radio friendly pop songs than I am in Prince’s more experimental side. I agree, some of the most brilliant music he ever manifested was in a live context (I’ve been listening to the 8^th of March 1982 show a great deal recently – it’s superb). But again, as someone who makes music especially, I’d be equally interested in the “failed” studio experiments, the stuff that even Prince felt was too strange and exploratory to release (assuming that it exists – like everyone else, I can’t help but bring my own preoccupations and hopes into my considerations regarding the vault).

I’m probably not in the minority here on the org, but obviously much of this stuff isn’t going to have broad commercial appeal. The question is how should the custodians approach his body of work? Is it to be polished, sanitised and meted out in commercially viable chunks (God forbid that third parties should attempt to “finish” the material)? Personally, I think that it would be deeply misguided to simply cream off the most viable hits and compile a series of posthumous albums aimed at the lowest common denominator. Prince was an artist of the highest calibre, especially during those first 10 years. While the more esoteric material in the vault may not appeal to the average consumer, I can’t help but believe that it will be of interest to musicians and creative communities going forward.

I’ve been following many of these discussions regarding the vault, and in a recent thread a fellow member mentioned that every posthumous release he’d heard had been a disappointment. I immediately thought of an exception, namely the wonderful Miles Davis box-sets (“The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions”, “The Complete In A Silent Way” etc). This is the kind of approach I’d like to see taken toward Prince’s work – compilations that are carefully compiled to highlight Prince’s creative development, drawing from whatever sources are deemed most illuminating or impressive (studio work, rehearsals, discarded experiments etc), almost academic in its approach. Not that I think that this is very likely…

[Edited 10/14/16 18:43pm]

SquirrelMeat said:

laurarichardson said:

26ten said: -- He did record every show. They had a whole screening room full of footage at Paisley Park.

He used to. He didn't end up recording every show.

I was under the impression that he watched back every show afterwards, even if they weren't all professional, multi-cam shoots.

On the other hand, there are a number of shows I've been to where I can't recall seeing a camera. Still, it's easy enough to set one up by the soundboard and just let it run.

purplerabbithole said:

I am weary of just releasing scraps of music from the vault. I am sure there is brilliance in there, but unless his estate is choosy about what they release, they could do more harm than good. After all, if you never read the Great Gatsby but only read Fitzgerald's half-ass notes in his desk, you might not think he was much of a writer.

The live work is what will cement him as a legend for a long time to come--in the way that live work from the great jazz musicians did.

That's where it is at.

The vault material or at least anything that could be released would need to be in a finished or close to finished state.

The trouble with live releases is that in the 80s/90s Prince cursed a lot. The estate isn't going to put that out so live releases would either need to be heavily edited or from 1999 onwards.

SquirrelMeat said:

No. Live is great, but its retrospective and a facsimile.

The gems I want are from his school. His studio. Where some things worked, and some things didn't.

This right here. I'd love nothing more to hear his studio works, bad or greatness. It shows where Prince's mind thought was at the time musically for each era.

purplerabbithole said:

Don't assume that I wouldn't be interested in the experimental and strange music. i am actually talking about lazy attempts at pop that he threw together quickly and rightfully didn't release. Not everything in that vault is artsy and interesting I imagine. The supposedly unreleased stuff that was briefly on youtube but is now gone was a mixed bag..some really interesting stuff, some solid pop music, and some downright bad music that sounds like Prince knock-offs. Some of the limited release stuff was far from experimental but corny as hell. IMO. Recently, I ran into some of the limited release stuff from One Night Alone and some of it I really loved.

I would love to hear the stuff he did with Miles Davis.

fen said:

Hi all,

I agree that there is likely to be some extraordinary live material in the vault, but I also want to hear as much of the studio work as I can as well. I suppose that it depends upon your expectations and where you find interest in Prince’s music. Personally, I’ve always been less interested in perfectly crafted, radio friendly pop songs than I am in Prince’s more experimental side. I agree, some of the most brilliant music he ever manifested was in a live context (I’ve been listening to the 8^th of March 1982 show a great deal recently – it’s superb). But again, as someone who makes music especially, I’d be equally interested in the “failed” studio experiments, the stuff that even Prince felt was too strange and exploratory to release (assuming that it exists – like everyone else, I can’t help but bring my own preoccupations and hopes into my considerations regarding the vault).

I’m probably not in the minority here on the org, but obviously much of this stuff isn’t going to have broad commercial appeal. The question is how should the custodians approach his body of work? Is it to be polished, sanitised and meted out in commercially viable chunks (God forbid that third parties should attempt to “finish” the material)? Personally, I think that it would be deeply misguided to simply cream off the most viable hits and compile a series of posthumous albums aimed at the lowest common denominator. Prince was an artist of the highest calibre, especially during those first 10 years. While the more esoteric material in the vault may not appeal to the average consumer, I can’t help but believe that it will be of interest to musicians and creative communities going forward.

I’ve been following many of these discussions regarding the vault, and in a recent thread a fellow member mentioned that every posthumous release he’d heard had been a disappointment. I immediately thought of an exception, namely the wonderful Miles Davis box-sets (“The Complete Jack Johnson Sessions”, “The Complete In A Silent Way” etc). This is the kind of approach I’d like to see taken toward Prince’s work – compilations that are carefully compiled to highlight Prince’s creative development, drawing from whatever sources are deemed most illuminating or impressive (studio work, rehearsals, discarded experiments etc), almost academic in its approach. Not that I think that this is very likely…

[Edited 10/14/16 18:43pm]

Sorry if my comment implied that – I was just speaking broadly about the kind of material that might be sidelined in the wrong hands. I’ve heard most of the circulating outtakes and I agree, it’s a mixed bag. Even some of the well regarded tracks are a little cheesy for me (I’ve never understood Susan’s high opinion of “Moonbeam Levels” for example). But then something like “9 -5 People” emerges...

There are bound to be a lot of interesting instrumentals that never found their way onto official releases (stuff in a similar vein to “Climax”, “Shortberry Strawcake” etc)… who knows? I agree with your main point though, there will be some amazing live material in there. I’m still besotted with the 1984 “Feline” rehearsal.

I like Moonbeam Levels (but it took me a few listens to appreciate it). Of the demos I heard* (some unreleased, some limited released), these songs were either solid or pretty damn good. There were others I couldn't stand. Not sure what I think about 9-5 people. I will have to listen to it again if I can find it. I will put a star next to the ones I am really digging right now.

Supercute

G-spot *

Moombeam Levels *

I can’t love you

Come Elektra

Pain

Poor Little Bastard

A place in heaven *

Van gogh

Roadhouse garden

I hear your voice (his version of the song he wrote for LaBelle) (* mostly for his singing)

LOVE THY WILL BE DONE

OPEN BOOK

F.U.N.K *

Cause and Effect

Strange Way *

Electric Intercourse *

Adonis and Bathsheba *

Grand progression *

Feel good

Sex of it *

I wonder

Playground

Old Friends 4 sale (original) *

Me touch myself *

Stone*

Avalanche * (don't agree with some of Lincoln stuff, but it is still a good song)

One Night Alone

fen said:

purplerabbithole said:

Don't assume that I wouldn't be interested in the experimental and strange music. i am actually talking about lazy attempts at pop that he threw together quickly and rightfully didn't release. Not everything in that vault is artsy and interesting I imagine. The supposedly unreleased stuff that was briefly on youtube but is now gone was a mixed bag..some really interesting stuff, some solid pop music, and some downright bad music that sounds like Prince knock-offs. Some of the limited release stuff was far from experimental but corny as hell. IMO. Recently, I ran into some of the limited release stuff from One Night Alone and some of it I really loved.

I would love to hear the stuff he did with Miles Davis.

Sorry if my comment implied that – I was just speaking broadly about the kind of material that might be sidelined in the wrong hands. I’ve heard most of the circulating outtakes and I agree, it’s a mixed bag. Even some of the well regarded tracks are a little cheesy for me (I’ve never understood Susan’s high opinion of “Moonbeam Levels” for example). But then something like “9 -5 People” emerges...

There are bound to be a lot of interesting instrumentals that never found their way onto official releases (stuff in a similar vein to “Climax”, “Shortberry Strawcake” etc)… who knows? I agree with your main point though, there will be some amazing live material in there. I’m still besotted with the 1984 “Feline” rehearsal.

mikeyaddict said:

A website where you could just access all the live shows etc and pay per one you get would make the most sense and just u've then all available. I'd defoe buy at least one show for each tour including the shows I was at.

THIS definately...

He is reported to have recorded every Live SHow...so START with those..

It will also gather a new Army of Fans becasue PRICE LIVE was incomparable, mesmerising, exciting, and entertaining from the second he hits the stage....

The rest of it, let them take their time and do it properly...

Revolution said:

Completely agree. I believe the vault songs will mostly disappoint, but he always brought it live!

you've heard the citculating bootlegs though right? we know there is some great songs in there