IstenSzek said:

i think over half of casual listeners thought he was gay anyway.
there hasn't been a single instance over the past 25 years since
i became a fan, that people i told about his cool music didn't ask
me if he was gay when told he had a wife and child and got
remarried a few years later, people seemed perplexed

so i don't think him actually being gay would have changed his
succes in any way. especially with casual listeners or people who
just listen to and buy top 40 singles. i didn't know anything but
the very basics about any of the people whose music i sometimes
enjoyed if they'd release a really cool single. i'd only read up on
people like prince or eurythmics or such because i was a big fan
and bought everything they released.

Yes but there is a difference between being accussed of being gay and then actually being openly gay itself. Prince was never openly gay and if he was, he was hiding it well.

.

I am ultra gay myself and I am sure he was very straight and merely did the pretty boy/sensitive

shit because he was either a big time pimp or just using it to score with the ladies. Nearly all of his music is about having sex with the ladies. No one gay would write that much stuff about screwing girls with so much detail.

.

If he was gay and writing this stuff, it would eat away at him inside eventually and he would stop writing it and come out. Only jack u off and Do Me Baby off Controversy would have possible gay lyrics. To do a man means to have penetrative sex with him and how do you jack off a girl.

.

Besides gays seem to like his music, with his albums reaching 100 gayest and 100 best gay themed album lists, usually anything from Dirty Mind to Purple Rain with Controversy and Dirty Mind aleways scoring high as he looks like a cherry boy on the covers and the music is quite camp. The sex in the songs seems a bit phoned in, in places.

Adorecream said:

Definitely not for several reasons. Here I assume you mean Prince comes out as openly gay at the start of his career and has all the same musical talent, except his songs are homoerotic.

.

1. Prince initially marketed at Black people and young girls. If he was openly gay and looking for guys, he would have been ignored by the young girl bopper audience he got with the first two albums.

.

2. The music would be different lyrics, most of his songs are about chasing girls and sex for the first 5 albums. Bambi would be "Brian can't you understand its better with man" "All your lovers they are a different sex to you", Soft and wet would be "My ass is soft and wet" "You have a sugarcane that u r going to lose in me and baby I can take the pain" Not even I could become a fan off those lyrics.

.

3. Openly gay artists were not that known in 1970s America, most were closeted or careers ended when it was founded (Elton John had major fall off in late 1976, when he came out as "bisexual") and even Jagger and Bowie had to tone it down. When both artists got over their gay/bi phase their careers shot back up. Jobriath was an openly gay 70s American artists and despite his hype faded into obscurity. More successful was Sylvester who was gay and a transexual I think, still his disco sound had a cult and gay following, but was hardly #1 hits!

.

4. America was even more homophobic back then, although extreme born again shit churches got going in the 1980s. And I amsorry to say the black people that bought Prince in his early days, would not have bought his music unlesshe pretended to be straight. Black people in general were more homophobic then like everyone else. Even the Village pretended to be straight in 1980s Can't stop the music, and this before AIDS ramped up homophobia another 1000%.

.

5. He would have done better in Britain, but even then Britain only really had the gay pop revolution from 1982 onwards with the arrival of Culture Club and Soft Cell, with earlier gay artists remaining in the closet until then (Freddie Mercury was not openly gay until 1983/84). The gay pop phase peaked around 1984/85 and was mainstreamed by 1990. In the USA gay themed or gay acts have never really caught on still, due to the extreme Christianity of many americans. Okay Culture Club did, but it was tokenism and BG never let on he was gay, but would own up only to being bi (Like Pete Burns from Dead or Alive).

.

There was a very cool LGBT scene in the USA though and by the 1980s were several gay and lesbian acts that had huge cult followings and a a gay Prince may have fitted in with the Melissa Etheridges, Scissor sisters and Indigo girls. By 1988 some lesbian artists like Tracy Chapman and KD lang were seeing mainstream success, but not transvestite (Rupaul's hit was a dance hit only) or gay acts at least until Rufus Wainwright and Samwell's what what in the butt (Bothe had limikted cult success).

.

6. He would have been seen as another gay disco act, which by 1979 was hated by the rock and roll meatheads - Disco sux.

.

7. Given his sexual promiscuity, it is a high chance gay Prince would have developed AIDS and died in the late 1980s. Or he would have found God and renounced his sinful ways by praying the gay away, stopped making gay music and retired.

.

8. His success would have been limited to a couple of cult dance hits like Paul Lekakis or Dead or Alive type act. I doubt he would have had more than a few well received dance hits, even a gay themed act like Grace Jones has never reaqlly troubled the charts in the USA.

.

9. The rise of homophobic shit hop and r and b along with churchified gospel music would ensure an act like gay Prince would have little black success other than with gay black men and it would be likely most of his fans would be gay white men and lesbians.

.

That is my opinion anyway.

Co-sign with your post. Yeah he would have seen just another gay act. He didn't want to be seen just another funk or R&B act much less a queer one. So yeah black people still are not accepting LGBT in the community I am not saying that black people are more homophobia but from my experience when I am around black folks and where I heard queer slurs I am the only one who have to correct them whereas if I am around non-blacks at least more than one person would have called out homophobia. That is why very few are out in the closet or are publicly in the closet (ahem Queen Latifah, Alicia Keys, MC Lyte, Tyler Perry, Neyo, and some of the terrible rappers).

Although the LGBTQ community is more forgiving, I think straight and gay people would prefer that bisexuals would just "pick a side". Socially it is a double outlier position that should be perfectly natural.

I think so. Most of the public seemed to think he was gay up until he hit his fifties, anyways. All else being the same--music, look--he'd have still been famous. It would have be another of the many ways defied convention and flouted the rules.

purplepoppy said:

Although the LGBTQ community is more forgiving, I think straight and gay people would prefer that bisexuals would just "pick a side". Socially it is a double outlier position that should be perfectly natural.

I agree because that why I call myself queer instead of lesbian because I am attractive to transwoman and feminine guys (Prince or David Bowie and Elton John type or B Scott) but the fem guys tend to prefer men so they are hard to get lol. I am not attractive to transmen because even though they are F to M most of them are masculine.

But I hope Prince's inner circle would give hints if Prince was a femqueer. I am sure he struggled too deep inside because even the LGBTQ can be prejudiced toward bisexual, non-binary individuals, and transpeople.

So if Prince was just a gay artist and had gay fans, he still would have to face prejudice being agender or genderbender type because like you said its because of the "pick a side" due to biphobia and cisgender lesbians and gays tend to be on the higher hierachy in the LGBTQ community.

Adorecream said:

Definitely not for several reasons. Here I assume you mean Prince comes out as openly gay at the start of his career and has all the same musical talent, except his songs are homoerotic.

.

1. Prince initially marketed at Black people and young girls. If he was openly gay and looking for guys, he would have been ignored by the young girl bopper audience he got with the first two albums.

.

2. The music would be different lyrics, most of his songs are about chasing girls and sex for the first 5 albums. Bambi would be "Brian can't you understand its better with man" "All your lovers they are a different sex to you", Soft and wet would be "My ass is soft and wet" "You have a sugarcane that u r going to lose in me and baby I can take the pain" Not even I could become a fan off those lyrics.

.

3. Openly gay artists were not that known in 1970s America, most were closeted or careers ended when it was founded (Elton John had major fall off in late 1976, when he came out as "bisexual") and even Jagger and Bowie had to tone it down. When both artists got over their gay/bi phase their careers shot back up. Jobriath was an openly gay 70s American artists and despite his hype faded into obscurity. More successful was Sylvester who was gay and a transexual I think, still his disco sound had a cult and gay following, but was hardly #1 hits!

.

4. America was even more homophobic back then, although extreme born again shit churches got going in the 1980s. And I amsorry to say the black people that bought Prince in his early days, would not have bought his music unlesshe pretended to be straight. Black people in general were more homophobic then like everyone else. Even the Village pretended to be straight in 1980s Can't stop the music, and this before AIDS ramped up homophobia another 1000%.

.

5. He would have done better in Britain, but even then Britain only really had the gay pop revolution from 1982 onwards with the arrival of Culture Club and Soft Cell, with earlier gay artists remaining in the closet until then (Freddie Mercury was not openly gay until 1983/84). The gay pop phase peaked around 1984/85 and was mainstreamed by 1990. In the USA gay themed or gay acts have never really caught on still, due to the extreme Christianity of many americans. Okay Culture Club did, but it was tokenism and BG never let on he was gay, but would own up only to being bi (Like Pete Burns from Dead or Alive).

.

There was a very cool LGBT scene in the USA though and by the 1980s were several gay and lesbian acts that had huge cult followings and a a gay Prince may have fitted in with the Melissa Etheridges, Scissor sisters and Indigo girls. By 1988 some lesbian artists like Tracy Chapman and KD lang were seeing mainstream success, but not transvestite (Rupaul's hit was a dance hit only) or gay acts at least until Rufus Wainwright and Samwell's what what in the butt (Bothe had limikted cult success).

.

6. He would have been seen as another gay disco act, which by 1979 was hated by the rock and roll meatheads - Disco sux.

.

7. Given his sexual promiscuity, it is a high chance gay Prince would have developed AIDS and died in the late 1980s. Or he would have found God and renounced his sinful ways by praying the gay away, stopped making gay music and retired.

.

8. His success would have been limited to a couple of cult dance hits like Paul Lekakis or Dead or Alive type act. I doubt he would have had more than a few well received dance hits, even a gay themed act like Grace Jones has never reaqlly troubled the charts in the USA.

.

9. The rise of homophobic shit hop and r and b along with churchified gospel music would ensure an act like gay Prince would have little black success other than with gay black men and it would be likely most of his fans would be gay white men and lesbians.

.

That is my opinion anyway.

Now that's on the verge of homophobic.
Or rather, thinking the audience as homophobic.

I'm sorry, but when the music is this good, it beats anyone. Purple Rain is proof: here's a short guy with a pompadour, bleeding mascara and wearing satin. When you strike with such precision the androgyny concept, it just works.

Look at MJ's success with Thriller. Now that isn't exactly Garth Brooks.
I mean he sounds AND moves totally gay to me, since day one.
That was never a problem, it was never mentioned.
I mean he can do it with whomever, it's the art that counts,
at such levels it just screams in your face (in the case of both Prince and Michael, litterally).

Prince was aiming for the same ambiguity, while being overtly sexual and racial
wheras Good Ol' Michael was going for the absolute status quo of the androgenous state.
But if you ask me, the one who got the ladies backstage was Prince,
no matter how much mascara he wore. Elvis wore a ton too.

George Michael sales didn't change after his (late) public coming out.
The Smiths heterosexual males fans still dug Morrissey.
Queen sales went up the roof, yet everyone knew what Freddie had died from.

Rock Hudson is maybe the first proof that society didn't care anymore.

I don't see any raise of homophobic shit, actually there's been a recent wave of gay marriage adoptions throughout the world.

For the record, the few albums by Grace Jones are considered classics and have been massively influential in pop. She's not a "gay themed act".

Your last options are a little on the verge of being sexually condescendent towards the LGBT.

Yes, but the path wouldve been dramatically different.

Guitarhero said:

joeycocopuffs said:

DarkKnight1 said:

If Prince was a white woman? If Prince was an ostrich? If Prince was a dolphin?

Nonsensical.

purplepoppy said:

sro100 said:

If Prince was a white woman? If Prince was an ostrich? If Prince was a dolphin?

Nonsensical.

Especially with Tim Cook as CEO of one of the biggest companies in the world, the question has become irrelevant.

It is nonsensical also because Prince has been essential in "finishing"
to educate the audiences with sexual/gender tolerance.
MJ too, but he went for the Coca-Cola commercial approach.
Prince raised of lot of social, pansexual questions through his attitude and his work.

He might be single-handedly responsible for the metro-sexual type,
you know, sensitive and shit. Just by claiming the feminine side of the man.

If you make the cover of Newsweek in 1984, in the U.S.A.,
where Reagan reigns supreme, with Mascara, pearls and laces while sticking your tongue out
and masturbating your instrument, it proves that no matter
what Prince's sexual inclinations were, the world had already subconciously embraced, or at least begin to accept a possible ambiguity in them.

Spanky said:

joeycocopuffs said:

If he were gay (or atleast bisexual), I think he would have an inspirational impact for the LGBTQ community and audiences especially to queer black folks aswell. I'd still love him if he were identified as Trans* tho, i wouldn't care.

[Edited 10/19/16 9:51am]

I don't mean any disrespect but didn't he admit to being trans in his Oprah interview? He didn't talk about it in a sexual way, but he quite literally said he felt he had a female inside of him. And nobody really batted an eyelash. Am I totally off here?

To me it sounds like he was struggling with his gender identity when he's saying all of this to her (gender dysphoria?) but didn't say he was Trans* fully. Like somebody mention here on this thread, he might as aswell be agender since the genderfluidity in him is so strong in this one it's pretty obvious.

[Edited 10/19/16 15:28pm]

bonatoc said:

sro100 said:

If Prince was a white woman? If Prince was an ostrich? If Prince was a dolphin?

Nonsensical.

Especially with Tim Cook as CEO of one of the biggest companies in the world, the question has become irrelevant.

It is nonsensical also because Prince has been essential in "finishing"
to educate the audiences with sexual/gender tolerance.
MJ too, but he went for the Coca-Cola commercial approach.
Prince raised of lot of social, pansexual questions through his attitude and his work.

He might be single-handedly responsible for the metro-sexual type,
you know, sensitive and shit. Just by claiming the feminine side of the man.

If you make the cover of Newsweek in 1984, in the U.S.A.,
where Reagan reigns supreme, with Mascara, pearls and laces while sticking your tongue out
and masturbating your instrument, it proves that no matter
what Prince's sexual inclinations were, the world had already subconciously embraced, or at least begin to accept a possible ambiguity in them.

When you have a 15 year old, caucasian female growing up in the heart of the bible belt with Prince posters all over her walls and bootleg cassette tapes by the dozen and her Baptist deacon father driving her and 2 friends from the church youth group several hours to the Purple Rain tour concert, you have accomplished a whole lot more than just creating a platinum album. He changed an entire generation.

[Edited 10/19/16 15:47pm]

EmmaMcG said:

purplepoppy said:

Although the LGBTQ community is more forgiving, I think straight and gay people would prefer that bisexuals would just "pick a side". Socially it is a double outlier position that should be perfectly natural.

I don't think I could "pick a side"...

Exactly.

jcurley said:

Guitarhero said:

Freddie Mercury anybody. And to your question most none fans thought he was gay anyway.

Freddie wasn't out. When his sexuality became a rumour un America it destroyed their career there

yes, and it was European culture that continued to embrace Queen while they faded in America due to how bad the homophobia was at the time. I was in high school when they hit big, and I remember all kinds of boys reacting negatively to Queen due to the gay vibe. Also, Bowie was never that huge in the mainstream in the US. He had just a handful of hit singles here and reached his peak commercially with the Let's Dance, which had very heterosexual vidoes of Let's Dance and China Girl. Don't think that China Boy Let's Dance Bob would have made a splash here (or in China )

sro100 said:

Now that's on the verge of homophobic.
Or rather, thinking the audience as homophobic.

I'm sorry, but when the music is this good, it beats anyone. Purple Rain is proof: here's a short guy with a pompadour, bleeding mascara and wearing satin. When you strike with such precision the androgyny concept, it just works.

Look at MJ's success with Thriller. Now that isn't exactly Garth Brooks.
I mean he sounds AND moves totally gay to me, since day one.
That was never a problem, it was never mentioned.
I mean he can do it with whomever, it's the art that counts,
at such levels it just screams in your face (in the case of both Prince and Michael, litterally).

Prince was aiming for the same ambiguity, while being overtly sexual and racial
wheras Good Ol' Michael was going for the absolute status quo of the androgenous state.
But if you ask me, the one who got the ladies backstage was Prince,
no matter how much mascara he wore. Elvis wore a ton too.

George Michael sales didn't change after his (late) public coming out.
The Smiths heterosexual males fans still dug Morrissey.
Queen sales went up the roof, yet everyone knew what Freddie had died from.

Rock Hudson is maybe the first proof that society didn't care anymore.

I don't see any raise of homophobic shit, actually there's been a recent wave of gay marriage adoptions throughout the world.

For the record, the few albums by Grace Jones are considered classics and have been massively influential in pop. She's not a "gay themed act".

Your last options are a little on the verge of being sexually condescendent towards the LGBT.

UH HELLO!

.

I am gay, dumbass, how the fuck can I be homophobic if I am militantly and proudly gay myself. Are you gay? Probably not, so stop it.

.

And asswipe, you are on the verge of being offensive with me. Also your ideas suggesting that artists can only be gay by wearing make up and swishing around is highly offensive against gay people as well. I also love Grace Jones's music and are usually commenting on any Grace Jones thread here, I merely said that she has not really had any huge hits on the mainstream charts like Hot 100 and R and B, even in liberal Britain, she only hit #12 with Pull Up to the Bumper and Slave to the Rhythm. They got to #3 in our gay paradise - New Zealand.

[Edited 10/19/16 19:22pm]

Adorecream said:

Guitarhero said:

Freddie Mercury anybody. And to your question most none fans thought he was gay anyway.

No doubt... I've told this story before but when I first heard Prince singing "I Wanna Be Your Lover" on the radio and had no idea who he was, I thought he was Sylvester--a popular gay disco singer at the time. By the way, I loved the song, just like I did the best of Sylvester's songs.

[Edited 10/19/16 19:40pm]

[Edited 10/19/16 20:23pm]

Asenath0607 said:

Interesting points; but why do you find it necessary to use the word "homophobic", when I believe a more accurate, and less inflammatory rendering would be "in general black people were less accepting of homosexuality".

Probably because to be "less accepting of homosexuality" is to be homophobic.

Asenath0607 said:

Adorecream said:

Interesting points; but why do you find it necessary to use the word "homophobic", when I believe a more accurate, and less inflammatory rendering would be "in general black people were less accepting of homosexuality".

Because anyone who does not accept homosexuality is homophobic, just like anyone who does not accept Black people is considered a racist.

Back in the early, early 80's costumes started to be the 'in' thing.

MJ with his gloves, and outfits.

Madonna with her naughty/nice wedding dress.

Elton with his glasses and outrageous clothes.

Prince in his lace, heels, make up.

Not once did I ever think that Prince was gay, bi, trans. Ever. Still don't.

He's had waay too many women in his bed for me to believe he even dibbled with the same sex.

And there has never ever been a more sexier guy then Prince was.

And if there is no proof that he dibbled with the same sex, then how can anybody say or believe he did?

It wouldn't have mattered. His music stood on it's own. His talent stood on it's own. And his genius was identifiable early on, way before he became a huge star/icon. He was also all over the place creatively that you couldn't pigeonhole him any one way. He gave the masses something to enjoy, even if they couldn't embrace every album. Even if you side eyed his choices and views, there was always something you could connect to. Don't like songs about sex? Well you can pick this song with rock, dance, spirituality, jazz, funk, experimental etc..... When you are that diverse.... that talented.... you are in your own league and criticisms just fall on deaf ears.

*

There is also the fact that Prince was in your face about everything he did. He owned everything he did without apology. You really can't criticize, shame, or shut someone down for long when he is standing in front of you going "What? Yes, my ass is hanging out in lace and I'm thrusting my guitar as if it were my penis. You don't like me simulating sex onstage? Tomorrow, I'll wear some mascara and a onesie and everyone will scream like crazy for more. And in a few decades I'll be wearing a potato sack preaching to you as I rock out." That confidence and audacity backed by genius talent is something to reckon. And he very much enjoyed pushing boundaries as he discovered himself over the years. It was cool to see him accept and embrace however he changed over the years. (even if I didn't always agree with his views)

*

I'm pansexual. I think that's the current and popular term for my sexuality and I too don't feel accepted by the LGBTQ community (apparently it's a teen fad even though I haven't been a teen in 15 years). Finding out Prince was one way or another wouldn't matter. He was one of the few people who made me realize, as a teen, that I didn't need to be accepted by anyone but myself. He could never be claimed as one of any community because he created his own and his community was a mix of so many that currently exist and only existed to him. And I think that, along with his talent, is what made him so special and somewhat impenetrable and otherworldly. He was just Prince.

what he marketed himself as, and what he actually was, were probably two different things. so he marketed himself the way he did for fame, and it worked. he marketed himself as straight and gay, black and white...you know...like the song. so he would appeal to all and sell to all, as that was the bottom line. he got where he was by that dichotomy...or whatever you say. probably confused himself in the end.

jdcxc said: