Purple Rain, Sex and the Sacred,

and the Implicit Religion Surrounding a Popular Icon

LINK to Download a Paper written by a Religious Scholar

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274328639_The_Personality_Cult_of_Prince_Purple_Rain_Sex_and_the_Sacred_and_the_Implicit_Religion_Surrounding_a_Popular_Icon

It took him 21 Pages and he still didnt GET Prince...

Interesting read never the less...Perspective is everything....

Lovejunky said:

"...It took him 21 Pages and he still didnt GET Prince..."

If an objective, impartial outsider were to read the majority of the posts on this board, and then read that paper, then those objective, impartial outsiders couldn't help but think that that paper is right on the money!

Idolatry of Prince as some kind of divinity is also the very reason why so many people refuse to accept the cold, hard, unflattering facts about Prince's pain medicine addiction and his resulting tragic, accidental death.

In almost every single post on this very board, people are creating all these mythological fantasies in their own minds, because they wish Prince's death could be attributed to something other than what it actually, matter-of-factually was.

In a lot of people's minds, religious heros don't become afflicted with chemical dependencies. Sacred divine beings don't die of opioid overdoses. Pain pill ODs are the kinds of causes of death suffered by millions of regular schmoes all over the world, everyday — not the divine.

Accepting the facts of Prince's death would force people to accept that Prince was just like millions of regular schmoes all over the world. Namely, a human being — just like them.

People's very psyche and their self-esteem have been built up — like a veritable house of cards — around the idea of Prince being some kind of supernatural being. The unflattering facts about Prince's death, is too much for them to deal with. So their psyche crumbles into a messy heap when they're forced to confront the reality of Prince's human-ness.

If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity.

The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less.

phatphuk said:

Lovejunky said:

"...It took him 21 Pages and he still didnt GET Prince..."

If an objective, impartial outsider were to read the majority of the posts on this board, and then read that paper, then those objective, impartial outsiders couldn't help but think that that paper is right on the money!

Idolatry of Prince as some kind of divinity is also the very reason why so many people refuse to accept the cold, hard, unflattering facts about Prince's pain medicine addiction and his resulting tragic, accidental death.

In almost every single post on this very board, people are creating all these mythological fantasies in their own minds, because they wish Prince's death could be attributed to something other than what it actually, matter-of-factually was.

In a lot of people's minds, religious heros don't become afflicted with chemical dependencies. Sacred divine beings don't die of opioid overdoses. Pain pill ODs are the kinds of causes of death suffered by millions of regular schmoes all over the world, everyday — not the divine.

Accepting the facts of Prince's death would force people to accept that Prince was just like millions of regular schmoes all over the world. Namely, a human being — just like them.

People's very psyche and their self-esteem have been built up — like a veritable house of cards — around the idea of Prince being some kind of supernatural being. The unflattering facts about Prince's death, is too much for them to deal with. So their psyche crumbles into a messy heap when they're forced to confront the reality of Prince's human-ness.

If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity.

The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Amen.

You really think this website has been easy on Prince? I can't even read older threads on this site without getting pissed. They ripped him a new one on here all the time.

As for the cult of personality, Prince is no different than any other musical or movie idol... with one exception, his death was completely unpredictable to most people. Most people knew Elvis, MJ, Monroe, Hendrix etc were messed up on substances prior to their deaths.

As for Prince's religious tendencies or thinking of him as a deity, that is certainly not my belief about P. What I am in shock and awe about is how hard that little bastard worked. Will power deluxe--which is probably why a long term drug addictions still seems so unlikely.

phatphuk said:

Lovejunky said:

"...It took him 21 Pages and he still didnt GET Prince..."

If an objective, impartial outsider were to read the majority of the posts on this board, and then read that paper, then those objective, impartial outsiders couldn't help but think that that paper is right on the money!

Idolatry of Prince as some kind of divinity is also the very reason why so many people refuse to accept the cold, hard, unflattering facts about Prince's pain medicine addiction and his resulting tragic, accidental death.

In almost every single post on this very board, people are creating all these mythological fantasies in their own minds, because they wish Prince's death could be attributed to something other than what it actually, matter-of-factually was.

In a lot of people's minds, religious heros don't become afflicted with chemical dependencies. Sacred divine beings don't die of opioid overdoses. Pain pill ODs are the kinds of causes of death suffered by millions of regular schmoes all over the world, everyday — not the divine.

Accepting the facts of Prince's death would force people to accept that Prince was just like millions of regular schmoes all over the world. Namely, a human being — just like them.

People's very psyche and their self-esteem have been built up — like a veritable house of cards — around the idea of Prince being some kind of supernatural being. The unflattering facts about Prince's death, is too much for them to deal with. So their psyche crumbles into a messy heap when they're forced to confront the reality of Prince's human-ness.

If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity.

The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less.

phatphuk said:

If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity.

The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I can be Honest with Myself phatphuk....

A deity ? No....

An Exhalted Human...absolutely.

To me, he is a Modern Mystic, a sincere seeker of the Truth... like Rumi,

and I am person very attracted to the metaphysical sciences

His music,

the words that he left behind,

the examples of extraordainairy human kindness and his desire to UNITE rather than

Divide ....His life inspires me daily

6 months after his departure and I am still learning from him...

I only cared about the music. the whole Prince celebrity persona and public image I didn't care about

Lovejunky said:

phatphuk said:

If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity.

The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I can be Honest with Myself phatphuk....

A deity ? No....

An Exhalted Human...absolutely.

To me, he is a Modern Mystic, a sincere seeker of the Truth... like Rumi,

and I am person very attracted to the metaphysical sciences

His music,

the words that he left behind,

the examples of extraordainairy human kindness and his desire to UNITE rather than

Divide ....His life inspires me daily

6 months after his departure and I am still learning from him...

He was a very special and unique man.

If I was his professor, I'd give him a warning, and then an 'F' because he stops his research of the discography and the evolution of P's persona far short. Stupid. No way he'd pass my class at all.

There are too many people obsessed on an unhealthy level in my opinion.

[Edited 10/10/16 18:55pm]

A false god to me he is not.

Lovejunky said:

phatphuk said:

"…If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity…

…The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less…"

"…I can be Honest with Myself phatphuk…

…A deity ? No....…

…An Exhalted Human...absolutely…

…To me, he is a Modern Mystic, a sincere seeker of the Truth... like Rumi,…

…and I am person very attracted to the metaphysical sciences…

…His music,…

…the words that he left behind,…

…the examples of extraordainairy human kindness and his desire to UNITE rather than…

…Divide ....His life inspires me daily…

…6 months after his departure and I am still learning from him…"

OK. Whatever floats yer boat, Lovejunky.

Actually, I gotta thank you for sharing the link to that paper.

It's a nice co.inky.dink. Because I had actually searched around a few weeks ago, looking for some kind of resource that discussed exactly the kind of thing that paper talks about. Thanks for posting it

How did you come across that paper in the first place, Lovejunky?

purplethunder3121 said:

phatphuk said:

Lovejunky said:

"…I can be Honest with Myself phatphuk…

…A deity ? No....…

…An Exhalted Human...absolutely…

…To me, he is a Modern Mystic, a sincere seeker of the Truth... like Rumi,…

…and I am person very attracted to the metaphysical sciences…

…His music,…

…the words that he left behind,…

…the examples of extraordainairy human kindness and his desire to UNITE rather than…

…Divide ....His life inspires me daily…

…6 months after his departure and I am still learning from him…"

OK. Whatever floats yer boat, Lovejunky.

Actually, I gotta thank you for sharing the link to that paper.

It's a nice co.inky.dink. Because I had actually searched around a few weeks ago, looking for some kind of resource that discussed exactly the kind of thing that paper talks about. Thanks for posting it

How did you come across that paper in the first place, Lovejunky?

A friend of mine, a Fanatic HARD CORE CHristian is convinced that P is Lucifer. He claims that Lucifer was the perfect Musician, and was exited from heaven for some reason and now incarnates in the form of music to seduce the masses. Lucifer was apparently extremely beautiful and could create exquisite music and whilst he was in heaven God was happy becasue he wrote music to glorify him.

.This friend also claims that the sign P makes with his hands, where his index fingex and his little finger are extended is an illuminati sign, a NOD to Devils Horns...

Naturally this distrubed my mind..so I did some research and I found

a) My friend is correct about Lucifer, but His music calls people to war and violence, P always spoke against that , essentially his message was Love. In my google search, God, Prince, Prince Religion etc..I came across that paper

Id like to say that Paper is excellent, but it suggests that P had an agenda, that everything was contrived, where as I believe that his decisions were based on his gut feelings and flowed spontaneously as a result of his desire to best utilise his God Given Talent.

b) The sign P makes with his hands, he started in the height of his career when he did a benefit concert for a school of deaf Children who "FELT" the vibration of his music and were thrilled.

They held up their hands in this formation

Sign Language for " I LOVE YOU"

Welcome

Lovejunky said:

phatphuk said:

OK. Whatever floats yer boat, Lovejunky.

Actually, I gotta thank you for sharing the link to that paper.

It's a nice co.inky.dink. Because I had actually searched around a few weeks ago, looking for some kind of resource that discussed exactly the kind of thing that paper talks about. Thanks for posting it

How did you come across that paper in the first place, Lovejunky?

A friend of mine, a Fanatic HARD CORE CHristian is convinced that P is Lucifer. He claims that Lucifer was the perfect Musician, and was exited from heaven for some reason and now incarnates in the form of music to seduce the masses. Lucifer was apparently extremely beautiful and could create exquisite music and whilst he was in heaven God was happy becasue he wrote music to glorify him.

.This friend also claims that the sign P makes with his hands, where his index fingex and his little finger are extended is an illuminati sign, a NOD to Devils Horns...

Naturally this distrubed my mind..so I did some research and I found

a) My friend is correct about Lucifer, but His music calls people to war and violence, P always spoke against that , essentially his message was Love. In my google search, God, Prince, Prince Religion etc..I came across that paper

Id like to say that Paper is excellent, but it suggests that P had an agenda, that everything was contrived, where as I believe that his decisions were based on his gut feelings and flowed spontaneously as a result of his desire to best utilise his God Given Talent.

b) The sign P makes with his hands, he started in the height of his career when he did a benefit concert for a school of deaf Children who "FELT" the vibration of his music and were thrilled.

They held up their hands in this formation

Sign Language for " I LOVE YOU"

Welcome

There's a lot of Christians who believe that all secular music is of the devil. I was watching a religious program a few weeks ago and one of the phone calls they got was from a women who commented on the fact that this particular religious group speaks against Christian rock and Christian rap, but their flavor of Christian music is country western, another secular music genre. I had to laugh at that.

There is one denomination (don't remember which one) that plays no music at all in their churches because they believe that since Lucifer was over the music in heaven, then all music is of the devil.
So your friend is not alone in his/her beliefs.

phatphuk said:

Lovejunky said:

"...It took him 21 Pages and he still didnt GET Prince..."

If an objective, impartial outsider were to read the majority of the posts on this board, and then read that paper, then those objective, impartial outsiders couldn't help but think that that paper is right on the money!

Idolatry of Prince as some kind of divinity is also the very reason why so many people refuse to accept the cold, hard, unflattering facts about Prince's pain medicine addiction and his resulting tragic, accidental death.

In almost every single post on this very board, people are creating all these mythological fantasies in their own minds, because they wish Prince's death could be attributed to something other than what it actually, matter-of-factually was.

In a lot of people's minds, religious heros don't become afflicted with chemical dependencies. Sacred divine beings don't die of opioid overdoses. Pain pill ODs are the kinds of causes of death suffered by millions of regular schmoes all over the world, everyday — not the divine.

Accepting the facts of Prince's death would force people to accept that Prince was just like millions of regular schmoes all over the world. Namely, a human being — just like them.

People's very psyche and their self-esteem have been built up — like a veritable house of cards — around the idea of Prince being some kind of supernatural being. The unflattering facts about Prince's death, is too much for them to deal with. So their psyche crumbles into a messy heap when they're forced to confront the reality of Prince's human-ness.

If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity.

The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I tend to disagree.

For some of us, when it reaches such levels of transcendence, we are willing to call Small Club's "Just My Imagination" a direct connection with God.
And thay may be true for you whether you are religious or not.

Define "talent". A very talented classical pianist ain't Prince.
An opera singer ain't Prince.
Heck, Eric Clapton ain't Prince, and he himself agrees.

When you insist like you do on the human being concept, you remind me that Trump, Putin or Assad are "human beings" too.
Heck again, so was Jesus.

So I can completely understand that for the spiritually enclined types amongst us,
Skipper was from another world.

About the drugs, that's a very narrowed western view.
Highly regarded shamans and gurus are drugged to the bone so they can contact the afterworld, therefore to many people, religious heroes COME with drug dependencies.

You can't blame western teens for considering Hendrix, Morrisson and Joplin as modern shamans.
But Prince's issues with chemicals are entirely different.
He didn't break his hips on purpose so he could go wild on opiaces.

Religion is not bigotry, that I agree with.
To be elightened or aware (a state ever unachieved in religion) is precisely about not falling into the ego projection traps that you mentioned.

But you can't help some to be exaggeratedly impressed by Prince's own pursue for enlightenment.

I was looking at Stockholm '86, and I can perfectly understand those who feel something else besides the talent. I don't think it's merely freudian projection, because then, everything is, and that's not a beautiful way to look at the world, or angels like Prince, for me.

Lovejunky said:

phatphuk said:

Lovejunky said:

phatphuk said:

"…If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity…

…The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less…"

"…I can be Honest with Myself phatphuk…

…A deity ? No....…

…An Exhalted Human...absolutely…

…To me, he is a Modern Mystic, a sincere seeker of the Truth... like Rumi,…

…and I am person very attracted to the metaphysical sciences…

…His music,…

…the words that he left behind,…

…the examples of extraordainairy human kindness and his desire to UNITE rather than…

…Divide ....His life inspires me daily…

…6 months after his departure and I am still learning from him…"

"…OK. Whatever floats yer boat, Lovejunky…"

…Actually, I gotta thank you for sharing the link to that paper…

…It's a nice co.inky.dink. Because I had actually searched around a few weeks ago, looking for some kind of resource that discussed exactly the kind of thing that paper talks about. Thanks for posting it …

…How did you come across that paper in the first place, Lovejunky?…"

"…A friend of mine, a Fanatic HARD CORE CHristian is convinced that P is Lucifer. He claims that Lucifer was the perfect Musician, and was exited from heaven for some reason and now incarnates in the form of music to seduce the masses. Lucifer was apparently extremely beautiful and could create exquisite music and whilst he was in heaven God was happy becasue he wrote music to glorify him…

…This friend also claims that the sign P makes with his hands, where his index fingex and his little finger are extended is an illuminati sign, a NOD to Devils Horns…

…Naturally this distrubed my mind..so I did some research and I found…

…a) My friend is correct about Lucifer, but His music calls people to war and violence, P always spoke against that , essentially his message was Love. In my google search, God, Prince, Prince Religion etc..I came across that paper…

…Id like to say that Paper is excellent, but it suggests that P had an agenda, that everything was contrived, where as I believe that his decisions were based on his gut feelings and flowed spontaneously as a result of his desire to best utilise his God Given Talent…

…b) The sign P makes with his hands, he started in the height of his career when he did a benefit concert for a school of deaf Children who “FELT” the vibration of his music and were thrilled…

…They held up their hands in this formation…"

…Sign Language for “I LOVE YOU”…"

…Welcome …"

Thanks for you reply. Your friend has a flair for weaving pretty colorful mythological tales. I'll give them that.

Prince can't take credit for inventing that so-called "Devil's Horns" sign though. One of my uncles was a metal head back in the 70s. My Ma has a polaroid of him and his buds at a Black Sabbath concert in 1975. They're all throwing up both their hands with that sign.

Apparently, you're also required to stick your tongue wa.a.a.a.y.y.y out and flick it around like it has a forked tip.. Probably because Satan likes snakes, I guess.

tmo1965 said:

Lovejunky said:

A friend of mine, a Fanatic HARD CORE CHristian is convinced that P is Lucifer. He claims that Lucifer was the perfect Musician, and was exited from heaven for some reason and now incarnates in the form of music to seduce the masses. Lucifer was apparently extremely beautiful and could create exquisite music and whilst he was in heaven God was happy becasue he wrote music to glorify him.

.This friend also claims that the sign P makes with his hands, where his index fingex and his little finger are extended is an illuminati sign, a NOD to Devils Horns...

Naturally this distrubed my mind..so I did some research and I found

a) My friend is correct about Lucifer, but His music calls people to war and violence, P always spoke against that , essentially his message was Love. In my google search, God, Prince, Prince Religion etc..I came across that paper

Id like to say that Paper is excellent, but it suggests that P had an agenda, that everything was contrived, where as I believe that his decisions were based on his gut feelings and flowed spontaneously as a result of his desire to best utilise his God Given Talent.

b) The sign P makes with his hands, he started in the height of his career when he did a benefit concert for a school of deaf Children who "FELT" the vibration of his music and were thrilled.

They held up their hands in this formation

Sign Language for " I LOVE YOU"

Welcome

There's a lot of Christians who believe that all secular music is of the devil. I was watching a religious program a few weeks ago and one of the phone calls they got was from a women who commented on the fact that this particular religious group speaks against Christian rock and Christian rap, but their flavor of Christian music is country western, another secular music genre. I had to laugh at that.

There is one denomination (don't remember which one) that plays no music at all in their churches because they believe that since Lucifer was over the music in heaven, then all music is of the devil.
So your friend is not alone in his/her beliefs.

I guess it has more to do with the general concept of pleasure,
which these kind of nuts have a problem with.

How much pleasure is too much, that's an interesting debate,
but these uninformed people cut it right away by playing the Lucifer card.

Prince knew better. Remember "I know I said I'll be good but they dig it when I'm bad",
from Syracuse 1985?

Now that's a clever approach to the problem.

phatphuk said:

Lovejunky said:

"...It took him 21 Pages and he still didnt GET Prince..."

If an objective, impartial outsider were to read the majority of the posts on this board, and then read that paper, then those objective, impartial outsiders couldn't help but think that that paper is right on the money!

Idolatry of Prince as some kind of divinity is also the very reason why so many people refuse to accept the cold, hard, unflattering facts about Prince's pain medicine addiction and his resulting tragic, accidental death.

In almost every single post on this very board, people are creating all these mythological fantasies in their own minds, because they wish Prince's death could be attributed to something other than what it actually, matter-of-factually was.

In a lot of people's minds, religious heros don't become afflicted with chemical dependencies. Sacred divine beings don't die of opioid overdoses. Pain pill ODs are the kinds of causes of death suffered by millions of regular schmoes all over the world, everyday — not the divine.

Accepting the facts of Prince's death would force people to accept that Prince was just like millions of regular schmoes all over the world. Namely, a human being — just like them.

People's very psyche and their self-esteem have been built up — like a veritable house of cards — around the idea of Prince being some kind of supernatural being. The unflattering facts about Prince's death, is too much for them to deal with. So their psyche crumbles into a messy heap when they're forced to confront the reality of Prince's human-ness.

If you were honest with yourself, Lovejunky, you could not deny that virtually every single prince.org post of yours since you joined prince.org, has exalted Prince as if he were some kind of messianic deity.

The man was an human being! An extraordinarily talented human being. But a human being. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I can't speak for others, but I have never held Prince up to be anything other than a flawed human being, like the rest of us, except that he was blessed with an extraordinary talent. For me, the speculation comes about because, although we know that he died of a drug OD, we don't know how he got to that point. Some of the information that we have been given could also point to there being some other illness going on in addition to addiction. Was he even addicted at all? Or did he just make a very bad choice that led to his death? So much of the information that we have been given has come from anonymous sources. I take any info from people who can't or won't give their names with a huge grain of salt. Did he have hip and / or leg pain? Did he have some other kind of pain? Did pain have anything to do with his addiction? How long had he been going through this? We only have pieces of the puzzle, not the whole picture, so we are trying to fill in the gaps.

tmo1965 said:

I can't speak for others, but I have never held Prince up to be anything other than a flawed human being, like the rest of us, except that he was blessed with an extraordinary talent. For me, the speculation comes about because, although we know that he died of a drug OD, we don't know how he got to that point. Some of the information that we have been given could also point to there being some other illness going on in addition to addiction. Was he even addicted at all? Or did he just make a very bad choice that led to his death? So much of the information that we have been given has come from anonymous sources. I take any info from people who can't or won't give their names with a huge grain of salt. Did he have hip and / or leg pain? Did he have some other kind of pain? Did pain have anything to do with his addiction? How long had he been going through this? We only have pieces of the puzzle, not the whole picture, so we are trying to fill in the gaps.

Heres a link to a lovely looooooong thread about his death where one can speculate to ones hearts content

....http://prince.org/msg/7/433457

Part 6 will be coming soon...no doubt

[Edited 10/11/16 15:18pm]

Lovejunky said:

phatphuk said:

OK. Whatever floats yer boat, Lovejunky.

Actually, I gotta thank you for sharing the link to that paper.

It's a nice co.inky.dink. Because I had actually searched around a few weeks ago, looking for some kind of resource that discussed exactly the kind of thing that paper talks about. Thanks for posting it

How did you come across that paper in the first place, Lovejunky?

A friend of mine, a Fanatic HARD CORE CHristian is convinced that P is Lucifer. He claims that Lucifer was the perfect Musician, and was exited from heaven for some reason and now incarnates in the form of music to seduce the masses. Lucifer was apparently extremely beautiful and could create exquisite music and whilst he was in heaven God was happy becasue he wrote music to glorify him.

.This friend also claims that the sign P makes with his hands, where his index fingex and his little finger are extended is an illuminati sign, a NOD to Devils Horns...

Naturally this distrubed my mind..so I did some research and I found

a) My friend is correct about Lucifer, but His music calls people to war and violence, P always spoke against that , essentially his message was Love. In my google search, God, Prince, Prince Religion etc..I came across that paper

Id like to say that Paper is excellent, but it suggests that P had an agenda, that everything was contrived, where as I believe that his decisions were based on his gut feelings and flowed spontaneously as a result of his desire to best utilise his God Given Talent.

b) The sign P makes with his hands, he started in the height of his career when he did a benefit concert for a school of deaf Children who "FELT" the vibration of his music and were thrilled.

They held up their hands in this formation

Sign Language for " I LOVE YOU"

Welcome

I think the message the paper is trying to convey is not so much that Prince may have had such as agenda, but rather that he was utilized to fulfill some form of agenda, and not necessarily just his.

"Prince is no philosopher or religious leader, his exploration of sexuality and belief is not some carefully thought through development of modes of sexuality within postmodernity, but a development of a marketing ploy designed to make him and others wealthier."

To do this, the author has drawn heavily from Prince's Purple Rain era, omitting the fact that Prince had decided to detach himself from that "agenda" (ie. from WB) whilst encouraging others to do the same and to turn towards more sincere purposes, including the search for a spiritual "truth". Indeed, in the latter part of his life/fame, Prince often asked fans to not worship him but to worship God instead.

CherryMoon57...

Thank you....

You nailed the root of my discontentment better than I...

A lot of Prince Conjecture focuses on the Man he was as opposed to the man he became, with age and life experience....

and Yes..it was about GOD not HIM....

CherryMoon57 said:

Lovejunky said:

I think the message the paper is trying to convey is not so much that Prince may have had such as agenda, but rather that he was utilized to fulfill some form of agenda, and not necessarily just his.

"Prince is no philosopher or religious leader, his exploration of sexuality and belief is not some carefully thought through development of modes of sexuality within postmodernity, but a development of a marketing ploy designed to make him and others wealthier."

To do this, the author has drawn heavily from Prince's Purple Rain era, omitting the fact that Prince had decided to detach himself from that "agenda" (ie. from WB) whilst encouraging others to do the same and to turn towards more sincere purposes, including the search for a spiritual "truth". Indeed, in the latter part of his life/fame, Prince often asked fans to not worship him but to worship God instead.

[Edited 10/11/16 15:28pm]

It's possible to think that Prince was both spiritually gifted, and that he died as the result of a drug addiction. I've not seen any evidence of a correlation between those who are inclined to reject the most evidence based explanation for his passing and those who have some appreciation of his spirituality...to me it seems that those who think he can't have had addiction come to that conslusion based on their moralistic notions of what kind of people addicts are. I read this paper a while ago, not in a great deal of detail, because it struck me as reductive. Rock music, and to an extent dance music, has always been about communion, and that has a religious element for those people who experience it as such, and I think it did for Prince...it's nothing new, it's just that Prince was really really good at it.

AnnaStesia91 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

A false god to me he is not.

But for some people he IS. Which I find unfortunate and it actually strips him of his humanity which is sad.

Anyone looking to a mere human being for total self-identity and salvation will be sorely disappointed in the end...

I just read a bit of it.. Some interesting views thus-far..

Thank you.

purplethunder3121 said:

AnnaStesia91 said:

purplethunder3121 said: But for some people he IS. Which I find unfortunate and it actually strips him of his humanity which is sad.

Anyone looking to a mere human being for total self-identity and salvation will be sorely disappointed in the end...

It's what striving for perfection is. Or rather, growing.
You foresee a better version of yourself.
In the end, you never get there, and so you keep on growing. An even better version.
If one wants to keep on growing, it has to be unattainable: God is a concept, as Lennon would say.

[Edited 10/11/16 19:44pm]

bonatoc said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Anyone looking to a mere human being for total self-identity and salvation will be sorely disappointed in the end...

It's what striving for perfection is. Or rather, growing.
You foresee a better version of yourself.
In the end, you never get there, and so you keep on growing. An even better version.
If one wants to keep on growing, it has to be unattainable: God is a concept, as Lennon would say.

[Edited 10/11/16 19:44pm]

Yes, the ideal of "perfection" is one that is strived for but never attained in this life. It is unrealizable and yet a state of being that one envisions for oneself, to become the best "self" one can in this imperfect existence. This is true for everyone, whether they believe in a "higher power" and an afterlife or not. I think that Prince absolutely believed this...and tried to live it.

purplethunder3121 said:

bonatoc said:

It's what striving for perfection is. Or rather, growing.
You foresee a better version of yourself.
In the end, you never get there, and so you keep on growing. An even better version.
If one wants to keep on growing, it has to be unattainable: God is a concept, as Lennon would say.

[Edited 10/11/16 19:44pm]

Yes, the ideal of "perfection" is one that is strived for but never attained in this life. It is unrealizable and yet a state of being that one envisions for oneself, to become the best "self" one can in this imperfect existence. This is true for everyone, whether they believe in a "higher power" and an afterlife or not. I think that Prince absolutely believed this...and tried to live it.

Thank you...EXACTLY purplethunder3121

Thats why I am SO inspired by his life...

He constantly evolved and tried to better himself....Whats more In the end, I feel he had the softest and kindest heart....and I believe that is what GOD Looks at if there is such a thing as Judgement Day.

Not what you have done ,for we have all done what could be called UNHOLY things, but what is the condition of your heart.

Are you kind, are you compassionate, are you honest, are you humble enough to accept that perhaps there IS more to LIFE than you can immediately see ?

DO you know HOW to LOVE ?

" The only LOVE we have is the LOVE we MAKE"

I could trip on that Lyric for eternity.......................

I think he also believed that this was common to all humans, and also his friends, hence the side projects. I really think he wanted "The Family" and "Jill Jones" to succeed on their own.
But the stimulis and the sources of inspiration were too many, coming too quick, from every side.

When we consider the frantic pace of the midst of the eighties, it's understandable that you can't follow everything. Especially if you fear that delegate is going to be perceived as a sign of weakness.

Thankfully, few are given a drive such as Prince's.
It turned out to be an incredible burden as much as an incredible gift.

Such was Skipper. It's a life lived in studios, for the most part.
What it is? Sacrifice.

I can understand how this sacrifice can impress some to the point of sacralization.
It's no little feat.

Superconductor said:

Thanks for posting. That paper explains, at a high level, the mechanism of how the career of Prince took off and sustained itself throughout the 30 plus years. . I had three thoughts triggered by this paper: . 1. The ongoing reinvention of Prince from that early stage persona that he "authenticated" through the Purple Rain movie to the subsequent stages/personas such as his "slave"/emancipation era and then his conversion to the JW religion (his search for the truth) and the post-JW/consolidation as a mentor to female musicians and spreading of the truth and his advocacy for issues affecting the black community in the US (e.g. black lives matter). . 2. I would claim that each of these personas were semi-authentic, i.e. they reflected elements of the real Prince but only those that he wanted to emphasise to the public/his fans, and also that Prince in the course of his career started to believe in his own "iconography" or at least conflated the two. And as the paper suggests at the end, similar artists who conflated their stage persona with thei real persona came to an early, tragic end.Just like Prince and his OD, except that Prince kept that well hidden from his fans but I suspect people close to him probably knew about. . 3. The fan community that grew and changed with each of his phases/personas and chooses which era/persona they want to identify with. This is reflected in how people responded to his death and the circumstances around his death and how fans are trying to fill the gaps/try to make sense of what happened and how it fits into their respective level of adulation or fandom. So those fans who see in him some higher spiritual being need the use of assumptions and conspiracies to hold on to their idolisation construct of Prince. Others who have only focused on the music and didn't identify with any particular persona are more able to just accept what happened and move on. . In this context it is also interesting that Prince didn't want to refer to fans as fans but fams (family) and he referred to some of his band members who were hired session musicians (employees) as family. This supports my second point. . As a last thought, the "rush" with which PP has been opened to the public as a museum and now the PP shaped urn and magazine feature could be seen in the light of trying to evolve Prince into the next phase of iconography. . The one thing I take issue with in the paper is the hardnosed claim that it was all just to make a lot of money. There certainly was that. But Prince surely also enjoyed playing music and being creative and performing on stage. The popstar lifestyle he lived where he could do as he pleased and people made things happen for him surely also "forced" him to continue to work as a musician and his need for admiration sustained that until the end. . Now I am surprised that Lovejunky would reference such a paper given the various comments in other threads that suggest to me a hardcore/fundamentalist level of fandom. But thank you for it. It brings some much needed rationality and reality check into this forum.

I like where you went with this....

The suggestion that everything was about money annoyed me so much that I almost dismissed the whole paper !!!

However I dont understand why you are suprised Id reference it...

Surely you can see by now....

I am not so much a fan as I am a disciple .....