nelcp777 said:

NinaB said:

laurarichardson said:

Yes, but no mention of who Duane's real father is or was. Duane's daughter has now admitted that her Dad was not a blood relation to John or Prince.

Wow, they never said Duane's Mom was John's first wife back in the day. Or that John went back 2 his 1st wife. It was put across that John met (& became involved with) a woman who had a young son & after she passed away John raised him (Duane).

I'm gonna scratch my head on that one also! That's exactly what I read. I'm gonna go back and read

the court documents again. Maybe I overlooked it??

zenarose said:

laurarichardson said:

databank said:

What I'm very curious about is his music. Except for a 4 tracks EP recorded at the very end of his life, this is the father of one of the century's greatest composer, a man who himself was a composer in his own right, and we have almost nothing! Are there home recordings? Music sheets?

Of course there are also the few songs he allegedly co-composed with Prince but it's been suggested Prince just gave him songwriting credits so he'd get the money without having to beg his son, because no one ever saw them work together. My theory was always that it was also possible that Prince used compositions by his dad, either from old recordings or even (knowing Prince) from memory as a basis for those cuts, hence the co-composing credit, but it's just a theory.

I find the Father's Song EP quite intriguing because it's not what you'd expect, i.e. something conventional: while the drum programming and other arrangements, for which I suspect John Nelson was not even responsible at all (they just don't work at all with his playing, it sounds like John L. improvised, then they cut and pasted him on the other tracks, which is awful), are very generic, his piano playing is mostly some sort of weird, totally unmelodic and unrythmic free jazz. It's really fucked up, totally abstract. This in itself makes him an intriguing musician in my eyes, not your average piano bar player.

In the end given who his son was, and given that he was probably Prince's first musical influence, I wish we'd get to know more about John Nelson's music. If recording or music sheet has survived, I wish Tyka or whomever is entitled to would make the stuff available to the public.

my thoughts, exactly

zenarose said:

NinaB said:

laurarichardson said: Wow, they never said Duane's Mom was John's first wife back in the day. Or that John went back 2 his 1st wife. It was put across that John met (& became involved with) a woman who had a young son & after she passed away John raised him (Duane).

I'm gonna scratch my head on that one also! That's exactly what I read. I'm gonna go back and read

the court documents again. Maybe I overlooked it??

It confused me at first but I went back over it a few times. His first wife was Vivanne and she died in the early 70s leaving Duane with no mom. Duane daugher spells this out in her court documents so it becomes a little easier to understand.

NinaB said:

laurarichardson said:

Yes, but no mention of who Duane's real father is or was. Duane's daughter has now admitted that her Dad was not a blood relation to John or Prince.

Duane seemed very tall compared to all of John's kids. I was always under the impression he wasn't blood related. Hopefully with the daughter's statement they can move on with the estate now.

No the daugher is saying that she should be considered a blood relative because John treated Duane like a son. She has filed an appeal and this could go on the State Supreme Court if she wants to keep fighting it. I doubt she will be successful since it would set a terrible precedent but I believe her lawyers want to force the estate to pay her off.

laurarichardson said:

NinaB said:

laurarichardson said:

No the daugher is saying that she should be considered a blood relative because John treated Duane like a son. She has filed an appeal and this could go on the State Supreme Court if she wants to keep fighting it. I doubt she will be successful since it would set a terrible precedent but I believe her lawyers want to force the estate to pay her off.

Oh I see, thanks. I hadn't kept up with all the details of her case. So John didn't adopt Duane then?

No he never filed adoption papers which is strange.

NinaB said:

laurarichardson said:

Yes, but no mention of who Duane's real father is or was. Duane's daughter has now admitted that her Dad was not a blood relation to John or Prince.

Wow, they never said Duane's Mom was John's first wife back in the day. Or that John went back 2 his 1st wife. It was put across that John met (& became involved with) a woman who had a young son & after she passed away John raised him (Duane).

I would assume that because Prince's father was a popular jazz musician there might have been a lot of partying, meet and greet opportunities, and ever present ego clashes that were commonplace in their world, which might explain Mr. Nelson's mindset and character. Anyway, they all seem like a family of very intelligent people. It's unfortunate that Mattie and John allegedly lived only a few blocks apart but refused to speak to each other after their split.

I remember watching an old MTV special recently (I believe it was the Parade concert winner in Wyoming, IIRC) where John was interviewed and came off completely arrogant . . . at times seeming to take full credit for Prince's talent. In fact, at one point he said "I AM Prince" (referencing where Prince's name was derived from).

AnonymousFan said:

Prince seems to have idolized his father, but John just seems like a genuinely bad guy from everything we know about him. Even worse than Joe Jackson - Joe just wanted his family to succeed and he made that happen, but I don't even know what was up with John Nelson - he seems like he was just evil for no reason.

I don't mean to come on here and diss their dad, but I really don't understand this man.

He was a neglectful father - he seems to have shunned and disowned some of his kids while having an on/off relationship with some of them. It looks like the only reason he liked Prince better than his other kids was because of his money and resources.

He hopped around from woman to woman impregnating them and leaving - it's just irredeemably immoral in itself.

He teased Prince and told him he'll never be "as good" has him.

He put his own son out on the street for behavior John himself probably was guilty of.

Then, there's probably a whole bunch of stuff we don't know about.

Why did Prince like this man so much?

[Edited 10/6/16 20:18pm]

First evil is a strong word and I do not think the man was evil. John Wayne Gracy was evil.

Secnd, he was a man, like millions of other men and women out there who do/did the same things to their families. It wasn't something special for him.

Last, that was his father. Kids love their parents because they are their parents. It is a complicated relationship and one that forms every other relationship we have in life. He probably respected him as a musician, and didn't understnad him as a person.

cloveringold85 said:

AbstractPoetic91 said:

Based on what has been said from Prince's mouth over the years, his father was a lot of things. Not at all do I think it's ok to kick your 12 year old son out on the streets, basically abuse if you ask me. But, I don't think he was evil, maybe off (mentally) and detached. I'll admit, I have mixed feelings about his father but his mother, IMO, is questionable too, especially when she was social worker...but I'm sure tried her best but we'll honestly never know unless Tyka puts out a book and write from her perspective of her parents and her upbringing.

.

Yea, the fact that P's Mom was a "Social Worker" -- that really got me!!

.

Maybe later on in life, they changed for the better?

.

I am a little confused because some say the father kicked him out and some his step father.

I know he was young when he went to live in Andre's basement but which parent actually kicked him out of the house?

If it was the step dad then that has nothing to do with John L and more with Maddie who chose a man over her own child. But then all things happen in this universe for a reason, and would Prince have been Prince with out all the experiences that created him.

BklynDiamond said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yea, the fact that P's Mom was a "Social Worker" -- that really got me!!

.

Maybe later on in life, they changed for the better?

.

I am a little confused because some say the father kicked him out and some his step father.

I know he was young when he went to live in Andre's basement but which parent actually kicked him out of the house?

If it was the step dad then that has nothing to do with John L and more with Maddie who chose a man over her own child. But then all things happen in this universe for a reason, and would Prince have been Prince with out all the experiences that created him.

Read dad left, then lived with his mom and stepfather. Then left there to live with his real dad again. Real dad kicked him out, then went to live with Andre's mom for the remainder of his high school years.

slightly off topic , but why don't we ever see /hear anything about John L and his first wife"s older son John R Nelson

Se7en said:

BklynDiamond said:

I am a little confused because some say the father kicked him out and some his step father.

I know he was young when he went to live in Andre's basement but which parent actually kicked him out of the house?

If it was the step dad then that has nothing to do with John L and more with Maddie who chose a man over her own child. But then all things happen in this universe for a reason, and would Prince have been Prince with out all the experiences that created him.

Read dad left, then lived with his mom and stepfather. Then left there to live with his real dad again. Real dad kicked him out, then went to live with Andre's mom for the remainder of his high school years.

Thanks, I was a bit confused because people say one kicked him out then the other.

laurarichardson said:

NinaB said:

laurarichardson said: Are u saying Duane's Mom is John's first wife?

Yes, but no mention of who Duane's real father is or was. Duane's daughter has now admitted that her Dad was not a blood relation to John or Prince.

It sounds like Duane is a product of an adulterous relationship between Duane's mother and another man. If John L was still married to her but seperated he would still be considered to be the father BY LAW.

80tomato said:

slightly off topic , but why don't we ever see /hear anything about John L and his first wife"s older son John R Nelson

Actually, Tyka includied his name when accepting the AMA award last Sunday.

purplerabbithole said:

P did kind of passively agressively badmouth JOhn. When asked if John was violent, he said he had his moments but was mostly fine. So, P didn't completely let his dad off the hook.

P getting along with Hayward in 2002 is nice but it doesn't mean he wasn't kind of a jerk anyway.

If you believe Prince, Haywood made him do stupid things like pick dandy lions out of the yard and he and Mattie's rules were pretty strict (not being able to hang out with his friends for a whole summer and being cooped up in his room). Andre even said P wasn't allowed to do much. Plus, a 12 year old running away from home (and staying away from home even when his real dad won't take him in)---usually it indicates that things are not good in that house (beyond just typical step-parent issues). Considering that John was strict, I can only imagine how strick Hayward was.

I guess one could just chuck the tension up to old school parentsn being strict. But wasn't Andre's mom relatively strict as well?

I once listenedd to NPG or Prince or whoever prank-call Hayward (in the 1990's) , and he came off as an ass.. He was asked what he thought of Prince's music. Hayward presumably did not know whom he was talking to. He band-mouthed his music the whole time (calling it immoral, all about just filth and not good) after claiming that he "raised" Prince. WTF? Prank calling at Prince's age (as well as the name calling back and forth once Hayward figured out whom he was talking to)was immature on P's part to be sure , but that doesn't mean Hayward was always a nice guy. For one thing, even if he did disapprove of Prince's dirty lyrics, he could have found one thing nice to say about Prince's talent especially to a stranger asking about it. I wouldn't do that to my son even if I hated his music. On top of that, I remember a story about when Prince threw a phone across a room because he had just gotten off the phone from Hayward. Hayward had been complaining that the house P bought for Hayward and Mattie wasn't nice enough. Really, dude? He certainly didn't mind living off that immoral music that Prince was producing.

Not saying Hayward was a complete monster (or even violent necessarily) but I don't think I would have enjoyed having him as a stepfather no matter how many gifts he bought me..

Genesia said:

In the young Prince's eyes, his stepfather's biggest sin was having sex with Prince's mother. No kid likes to think of his or her mother that way - especially when the man in question isn't their father. That is definitely going to set a boy against a stepfather - it's basic biology.

And having that man also set rules in his house that you don't want to follow? How many times do you think Prince yelled at his stepfather, "You're not my dad!"

[Edited 10/7/16 10:56am]

In other words, it was a typical 60s/70s household. Everybody's parents were strict and made them dig dandelions out of the lawn. (Mine sure did.)

LBrent said:

80tomato said:

slightly off topic , but why don't we ever see /hear anything about John L and his first wife"s older son John R Nelson

Actually, Tyka includied his name when accepting the AMA award last Sunday.

yes, but no pictures ,even on the news...I guess he wants to stay relatively anonymous and lets the sisters get on with it..I would like to see what he looks like since he and P have the same father

[Edited 11/26/16 19:53pm]

80tomato said:

LBrent said:

Actually, Tyka includied his name when accepting the AMA award last Sunday.

yes, but no pictures ,even on the news...I guess he wants to stay relatively anonymous and lets the sisters get on with it..I would like to see what he looks like since he and P have the same father

[Edited 11/26/16 19:53pm]

I'm not sure, but I think he was in the pics from the very 1st private family P memorial. I do remember seeing a number of black males around the age he should be and they were around Tyka, but I dunno which one John Jr. would be.

imo he was just a man, trying to live life. i think one of the biggest challenges we have in life is understanding that our parents were not perfect, that they are human and make mistakes like we all do, then coming to terms with that with respect to our own lives

80tomato said:

LBrent said:

Actually, Tyka includied his name when accepting the AMA award last Sunday.

yes, but no pictures ,even on the news...I guess he wants to stay relatively anonymous and lets the sisters get on with it..I would like to see what he looks like since he and P have the same father

[Edited 11/26/16 19:53pm]

Um I think Duane is dead.

BklynDiamond said:

80tomato said:

yes, but no pictures ,even on the news...I guess he wants to stay relatively anonymous and lets the sisters get on with it..I would like to see what he looks like since he and P have the same father

Um I think Duane is dead.

BklynDiamond said:

80tomato said:

yes, but no pictures ,even on the news...I guess he wants to stay relatively anonymous and lets the sisters get on with it..I would like to see what he looks like since he and P have the same father

[Edited 11/26/16 19:53pm]

Um I think Duane is dead.

Duane is dead.

The person upthread was asking about John Jr. not Duane.

Tyka mentioned John Jr. (she called him Johnny) along with Sharon, Norrine, Alfred and Omar in her AMA acceptance speech.

[Edited 11/28/16 13:15pm]

jcurley said: