Prince seems to have idolized his father, but John just seems like a genuinely bad guy from everything we know about him. Even worse than Joe Jackson - Joe just wanted his family to succeed and he made that happen, but I don't even know what was up with John Nelson - he seems like he was just evil for no reason.

I don't mean to come on here and diss their dad, but I really don't understand this man.

He was a neglectful father - he seems to have shunned and disowned some of his kids while having an on/off relationship with some of them. It looks like the only reason he liked Prince better than his other kids was because of his money and resources.

He hopped around from woman to woman impregnating them and leaving - it's just irredeemably immoral in itself.

He teased Prince and told him he'll never be "as good" has him.

He put his own son out on the street for behavior John himself probably was guilty of.

Then, there's probably a whole bunch of stuff we don't know about.

Why did Prince like this man so much?

[Edited 10/6/16 20:18pm]

Are you sure Prince "idolized" him. At times, Prince was a bit unkind towards his dad. They may have shared a musical bond and could hang sometimes but they too had falling outs.

But, despite John's seeming inaptittude at parenting, apparently, John could be charming. Members of Prince's entourage and management liked John. And I believe he was more even tempered than the dad in Purple Rain.

Prince's step dad seemed worse in my opinion...at least in the way he treated Prince.

But back to Prince and John, most sons are trying to earn their dad's respect and find guidance from them--even if their dads are pretty flawed.

AnonymousFan said:

Prince seems to have idolized his father, but John just seems like a genuinely bad guy from everything we know about him. Even worse than Joe Jackson - Joe just wanted his family to succeed and he made that happen, but I don't even know what was up with John Nelson - he seems like he was just evil for reason.

I don't mean to come on here and diss their dad, but I really don't understand this man.

He was a neglectful father - he seems to have shunned and disowned some of his kids while having an on/off relationship with some of them. It looks like the only reason he liked Prince better than his other kids was because of his money and resources.

He hopped around from woman to woman impregnating them and leaving - it's just irredeemably immoral in itself.

He teased Prince and told him he'll never be "as good" has him.

He put his own son out on the street for behavior John himself probably was guilty of.

Then, there's probably a whole bunch of stuff we don't know about.

Why did Prince like this man so much?

[Edited 10/6/16 19:17pm]

[Edited 10/6/16 19:18pm]

Obviously this messed Prince up. And I know Prince loved his dad and wanted his respect so much but it was also very obvious that he was, in some ways, trying to get "digs" in on his dad to show him how he'd made it (Graffiti Bridge- "So what if no one was digging your music? I was getting paid, we coulda made it" - when he's writing his father a letter) and Purple Rain, "Your gonna end up like your old man, Frances L." -- so he definately felt he had something to prove.

And he proved it!

AnonymousFan said:

Hmmm...Lemme see...Citing Joe Jackson as a father sets the bar pretty low since his style of parenting involved the systematic abuse and pimping of all of his children to feed his enormous ego and fill the void when his own talent failed to make him a career.

I don't know John Nelson but I do know that he actually had a career in music and whatever his flaws as a human being or his shortcomings as a father, P was still able to achieve what will go down in history independent of his father.

Just sayin
[Edited 10/6/16 19:43pm]

AnonymousFan said:

Prince seems to have idolized his father, but John just seems like a genuinely bad guy from everything we know about him. Even worse than Joe Jackson - Joe just wanted his family to succeed and he made that happen, but I don't even know what was up with John Nelson - he seems like he was just evil for reason.

I don't mean to come on here and diss their dad, but I really don't understand this man.

He was a neglectful father - he seems to have shunned and disowned some of his kids while having an on/off relationship with some of them. It looks like the only reason he liked Prince better than his other kids was because of his money and resources.

He hopped around from woman to woman impregnating them and leaving - it's just irredeemably immoral in itself.

He teased Prince and told him he'll never be "as good" has him.

He put his own son out on the street for behavior John himself probably was guilty of.

Then, there's probably a whole bunch of stuff we don't know about.

Why did Prince like this man so much?

What makes you say that he hopped around impregnating women? As far was we know, he had kids by 2 women, and he was married to both of them. When he was divorced from his 1st wife, the kids were teenagers, if not young adults. We have no knowledge of why his marriages ended in divorce, so how can anyone judge him because of it.

[Edited 10/6/16 19:53pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Are you sure Prince "idolized" him. At times, Prince was a bit unkind towards his dad. They may have shared a musical bond and could hang sometimes but they too had falling outs.

But, despite John's seeming inaptittude at parenting, apparently, John could be charming. Members of Prince's entourage and management liked John. And I believe he was more even tempered than the dad in Purple Rain.

Prince's step dad seemed worse in my opinion...at least in the way he treated Prince.

But back to Prince and John, most sons are trying to earn their dad's respect and find guidance from them--even if their dads are pretty flawed.

AnonymousFan said:

Prince seems to have idolized his father, but John just seems like a genuinely bad guy from everything we know about him. Even worse than Joe Jackson - Joe just wanted his family to succeed and he made that happen, but I don't even know what was up with John Nelson - he seems like he was just evil for reason.

I don't mean to come on here and diss their dad, but I really don't understand this man.

He was a neglectful father - he seems to have shunned and disowned some of his kids while having an on/off relationship with some of them. It looks like the only reason he liked Prince better than his other kids was because of his money and resources.

He hopped around from woman to woman impregnating them and leaving - it's just irredeemably immoral in itself.

He teased Prince and told him he'll never be "as good" has him.

He put his own son out on the street for behavior John himself probably was guilty of.

Then, there's probably a whole bunch of stuff we don't know about.

Why did Prince like this man so much?

[Edited 10/6/16 19:17pm]

[Edited 10/6/16 19:18pm]

Well said.

Prince never spoke badly about his dad and even during their worst falling outs never criticized him in public even when he mentioned the not so pleasant and tough moments in their relationship, so why call him "evil". Did you know him on a personal level?

And as far as his stepfather Hayward Baker goes, Prince was standing right next to me while he was hugging and greeting him inside Paisley Park during the 2002 celebration and they had a conversation and you could see a smile and a glow on Prince´s face. I doubt that he was still holding anything against him that happened during his teenage years.

He also mentinoned John L. during the shows and spoke fondly of him, so I think it´s not up to us to judge him or call him evil.

I´m sure you could find some things to criticize about him if you dig enough and speak with the right people but...why would anybody want to do that?

If anything, that would be up to potential biographers.

Then again, I understand that there might be an interest to discuss this factor in his life , especially here in this forum dedicated to his life and art. But it is a thin line between unjust accusations and hearsay and hard facts.

What I'm very curious about is his music. Except for a 4 tracks EP recorded at the very end of his life, this is the father of one of the century's greatest composer, a man who himself was a composer in his own right, and we have almost nothing! Are there home recordings? Music sheets?

Of course there are also the few songs he allegedly co-composed with Prince but it's been suggested Prince just gave him songwriting credits so he'd get the money without having to beg his son, because no one ever saw them work together. My theory was always that it was also possible that Prince used compositions by his dad, either from old recordings or even (knowing Prince) from memory as a basis for those cuts, hence the co-composing credit, but it's just a theory.

I find the Father's Song EP quite intriguing because it's not what you'd expect, i.e. something conventional: while the drum programming and other arrangements, for which I suspect John Nelson was not even responsible at all (they just don't work at all with his playing, it sounds like John L. improvised, then they cut and pasted him on the other tracks, which is awful), are very generic, his piano playing is mostly some sort of weird, totally unmelodic and unrythmic free jazz. It's really fucked up, totally abstract. This in itself makes him an intriguing musician in my eyes, not your average piano bar player.

In the end given who his son was, and given that he was probably Prince's first musical influence, I wish we'd get to know more about John Nelson's music. If recording or music sheet has survived, I wish Tyka or whomever is entitled to would make the stuff available to the public.

tmo1965 said:

AnonymousFan said:

Prince seems to have idolized his father, but John just seems like a genuinely bad guy from everything we know about him. Even worse than Joe Jackson - Joe just wanted his family to succeed and he made that happen, but I don't even know what was up with John Nelson - he seems like he was just evil for reason.

I don't mean to come on here and diss their dad, but I really don't understand this man.

He was a neglectful father - he seems to have shunned and disowned some of his kids while having an on/off relationship with some of them. It looks like the only reason he liked Prince better than his other kids was because of his money and resources.

He hopped around from woman to woman impregnating them and leaving - it's just irredeemably immoral in itself.

He teased Prince and told him he'll never be "as good" has him.

He put his own son out on the street for behavior John himself probably was guilty of.

Then, there's probably a whole bunch of stuff we don't know about.

Why did Prince like this man so much?

What makes you say that he hopped around impregnating women? As far was we know, he had kids by 2 women, and he was married to both of them. When he was divorced from his 1st wife, the kids were teenagers, if not young adults. We have no knowledge of why his marriages ended in divorce, so how can anyone judge him because of it.

[Edited 10/6/16 19:53pm]

I wonder how much Prince wrote about his father in his unfinished memoir. Would definitely like to get more insight about their relationship--e.g., how much they are alike. On a personal note, my father, who was a lawyer, died when I was 7 years old and never really got to know him (would have wanted to know his views about life, what it was like for him growing up, etc.)

KoolEaze said:

Prince never spoke badly about his dad and even during their worst falling outs never criticized him in public even when he mentioned the not so pleasant and tough moments in their relationship, so why call him "evil". Did you know him on a personal level?

And as far as his stepfather Hayward Baker goes, Prince was standing right next to me while he was hugging and greeting him inside Paisley Park during the 2002 celebration and they had a conversation and you could see a smile and a glow on Prince´s face. I doubt that he was still holding anything against him that happened during his teenage years.

He also mentinoned John L. during the shows and spoke fondly of him, so I think it´s not up to us to judge him or call him evil.

I´m sure you could find some things to criticize about him if you dig enough and speak with the right people but...why would anybody want to do that?

If anything, that would be up to potential biographers.

Then again, I understand that there might be an interest to discuss this factor in his life , especially here in this forum dedicated to his life and art. But it is a thin line between unjust accusations and hearsay and hard facts.

In the young Prince's eyes, his stepfather's biggest sin was having sex with Prince's mother. No kid likes to think of his or her mother that way - especially when the man in question isn't their father. That is definitely going to set a boy against a stepfather - it's basic biology.

And having that man also set rules in his house that you don't want to follow? How many times do you think Prince yelled at his stepfather, "You're not my dad!"

P did kind of passively agressively badmouth JOhn. When asked if John was violent, he said he had his moments but was mostly fine. So, P didn't completely let his dad off the hook.

P getting along with Hayward in 2002 is nice but it doesn't mean he wasn't kind of a jerk anyway.

If you believe Prince, Haywood made him do stupid things like pick dandy lions out of the yard and he and Mattie's rules were pretty strict (not being able to hang out with his friends for a whole summer and being cooped up in his room). Andre even said P wasn't allowed to do much. Plus, a 12 year old running away from home (and staying away from home even when his real dad won't take him in)---usually it indicates that things are not good in that house (beyond just typical step-parent issues). Considering that John was strict, I can only imagine how strick Hayward was.

I guess one could just chuck the tension up to old school parentsn being strict. But wasn't Andre's mom relatively strict as well?

I once listenedd to NPG or Prince or whoever prank-call Hayward (in the 1990's) , and he came off as an ass.. He was asked what he thought of Prince's music. Hayward presumably did not know whom he was talking to. He band-mouthed his music the whole time (calling it immoral, all about just filth and not good) after claiming that he "raised" Prince. WTF? Prank calling at Prince's age (as well as the name calling back and forth once Hayward figured out whom he was talking to)was immature on P's part to be sure , but that doesn't mean Hayward was always a nice guy. For one thing, even if he did disapprove of Prince's dirty lyrics, he could have found one thing nice to say about Prince's talent especially to a stranger asking about it. I wouldn't do that to my son even if I hated his music. On top of that, I remember a story about when Prince threw a phone across a room because he had just gotten off the phone from Hayward. Hayward had been complaining that the house P bought for Hayward and Mattie wasn't nice enough. Really, dude? He certainly didn't mind living off that immoral music that Prince was producing.

Not saying Hayward was a complete monster (or even violent necessarily) but I don't think I would have enjoyed having him as a stepfather no matter how many gifts he bought me..

Genesia said:

KoolEaze said:

Prince never spoke badly about his dad and even during their worst falling outs never criticized him in public even when he mentioned the not so pleasant and tough moments in their relationship, so why call him "evil". Did you know him on a personal level?

And as far as his stepfather Hayward Baker goes, Prince was standing right next to me while he was hugging and greeting him inside Paisley Park during the 2002 celebration and they had a conversation and you could see a smile and a glow on Prince´s face. I doubt that he was still holding anything against him that happened during his teenage years.

He also mentinoned John L. during the shows and spoke fondly of him, so I think it´s not up to us to judge him or call him evil.

I´m sure you could find some things to criticize about him if you dig enough and speak with the right people but...why would anybody want to do that?

If anything, that would be up to potential biographers.

Then again, I understand that there might be an interest to discuss this factor in his life , especially here in this forum dedicated to his life and art. But it is a thin line between unjust accusations and hearsay and hard facts.

In the young Prince's eyes, his stepfather's biggest sin was having sex with Prince's mother. No kid likes to think of his or her mother that way - especially when the man in question isn't their father. That is definitely going to set a boy against a stepfather - it's basic biology.

And having that man also set rules in his house that you don't want to follow? How many times do you think Prince yelled at his stepfather, "You're not my dad!"

[Edited 10/7/16 10:56am]

Prince's father was intimately connect to Prince and his camp during the 1984-1987 period then I don't remember seeing/hearing much about him with Prince after that

I have a recording of the P&M shows from Paisley Park and during one of the shows Prince talks about his father (I think it was something about never letting him forget that he wasn't as good on the piano) then Prince says "but we got along good. He was my best friend".

rogifan said:

I have a recording of the P&M shows from Paisley Park and during one of the shows Prince talks about his father (I think it was something about never letting him forget that he wasn't as good on the piano) then Prince says "but we got along good. He was my best friend".

I always thought it was because as a younger person, Prince acted rebelllous, well they often clashed.

But he appreciate his father's strictness and understood as he gotten older. Keep in mind his father was very old when Prince was very young and his father was more traditional and old school with some of his views and displine. I always thought Prince had more issues with his mother and stepfather. It is kind of interesting he never mentioned his mother during his Piano Tour but I could be wrong.

[Edited 10/7/16 12:35pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

Great photo.

ladygirl99 said:

He definitely mentioned his father more than his mother on these shows. At one of the Oakland shows he talked about wanting to be like his father and said "I loved everything my father did - my mother, the Bible and music".

I think they were very alike. From their musical talents to their love of women. Both strict, controlling, stubborn men which is probably why they sometimes clashed, but ultimately I believe there was a lot of respect and love there.

"I loved everything my father did - my mother, the Bible and music". --that's an awesome line. And a weirdly dirty tribute to his mother...LOL.

Maybe he didnt talk about his mother publically too often because she was private. People talk about him having issues with his mother, but I don't recall him saying anything bad or disrespectful about her other than her being the wild side of his personality, being a mediocre singer and when he sang "Motherless Child" asking why his mother left him on the street at 12. Also, keep in mind that his dad was a piano player and he was doing the "Piano and a Microphone" tour at time.

Its funny..but didn't Prince's sister also run away from home at an early age. Something was wrong in that house? Maybe Prince's issue with his mother stemmed from the fact that she was a social worker who presumably looked into placing children into healthy homes but didn't stand up for her son against the stepdad...of course, P's perspective would be biased against the stepdad..but that might have been his issue with mom.

Someone said P's dad was controlling. Do we have any proof for that? Afterall, P's dad left his family rather than forcing them to do what he wanted. Maybe his mom/stepdad were more controlling...who knows?

rogifan said:

ladygirl99 said:

I always thought it was because as a younger person, Prince acted rebelllous, well they often clashed.

But he appreciate his father's strictness and understood as he gotten older. Keep in mind his father was very old when Prince was very young and his father was more traditional and old school with some of his views and displine. I always thought Prince had more issues with his mother and stepfather. It is kind of interesting he never mentioned his mother during his Piano Tour but I could be wrong.

[Edited 10/7/16 12:35pm]

He definitely mentioned his father more than his mother on these shows. At one of the Oakland shows he talked about wanting to be like his father and said "I loved everything my father did - my mother, the Bible and music".

[Edited 10/7/16 21:56pm]

[Edited 10/7/16 21:58pm]

Prince's family are pure trash. God he's not just a genius musically but as a human to overcome that bag of scum. Tyka is living proof

jcurley said:

Prince's family are pure trash. God he's not just a genius musically but as a human to overcome that bag of scum. Tyka is living proof

I hope you know them in person before saying anything like this in a public forum.

Lots of people on this forum are quick to judge. I hope people are not as quick to judge on you.

jcurley said:

That's pretty harsh, especially from someone that didn't know them. Tyra got into drugs and prostitution which put a strain on her relationship with Prince. But she overcame it and is clean and married now. People do change.

"Despite their strained relationship, it was Prince who entered Tyka into a rehab program in the early 2000s, she told The National Enquirer. She said she battled addiction to cocaine and prostituted herself to support her children."
[Edited 10/8/16 8:09am]

jcurley said:

Wow you actually call yourself a Prince fan?

Morningstarlet said:

jcurley said:

Prince's family are pure trash. God he's not just a genius musically but as a human to overcome that bag of scum. Tyka is living proof

That's pretty harsh, especially from someone that didn't know them. Tyra got into drugs and prostitution which put a strain on her relationship with Prince. But she overcame it and is clean and married now. People do change. "Despite their strained relationship, it was Prince who entered Tyka into a rehab program in the early 2000s, she told The National Enquirer. She said she battled addiction to cocaine and prostituted herself to support her children." [Edited 10/8/16 8:09am]

My thoughts exactly

jcurley said:

Prince's family are pure trash. God he's not just a genius musically but as a human to overcome that bag of scum. Tyka is living proof

Tyka's not trash. She just got into somethings she shouldn't have, but she's gotten over it now and she seems like a nice lady. She's obviously doing her best to run the estate in line with Prince's wishes and she seems to be doing a rather fine job.

If she'd just never gotten herself together and was a completely mess, that'd be a different story, but it's not the case now.

KoolEaze said:

--- Okay this is the guy who threw him out in the street which Prince talked about a lot. He also said his dad was no role model or anyone he looked up to. Now he may have patched things up with his dad later in life but I know what I read. He also had bad things to say about his stepfather but they probaly patched things up down the road. Don't down play verbal or emotional abuse dude had issues and the came from flawed parenting.
[Edited 10/8/16 10:00am]

Eh...I don't think Mr. Nelson was evil per se...he wasn't a Leave it to Beaver dad...but evil nah.

Just as you mentioned Joe Jackson, I'm one of the few who doesn't think he's this evil dude. Michael didn't hate him, ge feared him, admired him, wanted to please him, and all around love the guy. All of them love Joe, because no matter how much of an ass he was, he is the source of their determination and success.

Same goes for the Nelsons, though I haven't heard of them speaking ill of their late father. Honestly I think P fans are a bit harsh on his family overall (not the OP), i guess its part of the grieving process. Looking for someone to blame.

We know that he had some hella good sperm and that's what counts.

.

But it is f'd up how Prince's parents kicked him out like they did. He was obviously such a sensitive soul and having to deal with that had to be incredibly painful.

[Edited 10/8/16 11:13am]